Norwegian Woman And American Woman Die Of Unknown Causes on Koh Phi Phi

[siamiam]

craig

Why are members becoming rude to each other on this thread. People died and some would like to understand why...so, they speculate...and think up what may be the reason...official explanations here may not be true. If you are tired of the speculation or think the speculation of others is of no interest then, I suggest, you simply don't read this thread...maybe then those who are interested in the subject may discuss it without your distractions.

Some of the speculation here is with little basis in fact...lack of knowledge, etc. but if it is put forth in an honest effort to contribute to the understanding of the subject it is welcome and certainly of more worth than what the complainers post. This is my opinion.

brahmburgers

As for networking on a solution: About 20 years ago there was mention of a problem with the US space shuttle - a leak in a difficult to access little high pressure pipe. It kept the shuttle grounded. Hundreds of suggestions came in from the public, and one was tried (epoxy under pressure) ...and solved the problem.

I wouldn't be surprised if someone, somewhere, involved in this case, (and others), in an official capacity, were reading everything written here. It doesn't take much time at all to stay on top of the daily entries on these threads, just minutes really. In addition, there are members posting on Thaivisa who have stated they are retired law enforcement and I have no reason to doubt their claims. For the most part, it all seems like a positive proccess to me.

[Scott]

Speculation is what happens until there are facts. Threads such as this help keep things from being 'swept under the carpet.'

For many of us, it's important to get some idea of what happened, we may, or may have guests coming to Thailand. Where do we take them? Where do we tell them not to go?

Until there are some answers, I think some people might make a miss of Phi Phi.

[Town35]

Good day -- I would not enjoy reading speculation based on pure fantasy. But in my opinion, the speculations in this thread are based on very plausible possibilities. The contributions to this thread have been mostly based on the contributor's knowledge of past events or some other experience which when all combined in this forum, sheds some light on travel safety. Thailand will not watch out for you, you have to cover your own rear in the LOS. Forums like these provide information that you will not receive by briefings from the Thai Ministry of Safety/Health at the arrival area of your Thai airport.

Oh yeah, Patong, July 2000, I turned around just in time to see a pill dropped into my beer as I sat on the beach with a new friend that had just walked up. There - a true story submitted, no BS, and you won't read this in your hotel welcome package. Four years of living in SE Asia, and on my first-ever foray onto the beach late a night I was almost poisoned within minutes. Really gave me the creeps for that certain dark side of Thailand. It also made the Phi Phi deaths seem to me a little more haunting.

So, please, more submissions!

Cheers,

Town

[baabaabobo]

German, 57, dies in Phuket after severe vomiting

PATONG, PHUKET: A 57-year-old German national died on the way to hospital in the early hours of May 12 with symptoms similar to those of two tourists who recently died on Phi Phi Island in Krabi.

The deceased, later identified as Ernst Hermannweid, had been staying at the Sky Inn Hotel in Patong.

Mr Hermannweid had gone for a few drinks at a bar in Patong when he complained of feeling unwell.

He returned to his hotel, where he started vomiting violently.

He was taken by a female companion to Patong Hospital, where he was reported as dead on arrival.

Extensive efforts to resuscitate him failed.

The nurse on duty at the time told the Gazette, “We tried to help him but he had passed away before he arrived at the hospital and the body was already turning blue.”

“We are now waiting for his relatives in Germany to confirm whether they would like us to perform an autopsy,” she added.

A source at the hospital said the course of Mr Hermannweid’s rapid demise was consistent with infection by the Eltor-Okawa cholera bacterium that also causes severe diarrhea. However, the source warned that it was impossible to know for sure without a full autopsy.

Mr Hermanweid was employed as a project manager by the M+W Zander consulting company, working in Malaysia and Singapore.

The company has sent a representative to Phuket and they are still waiting for a report.

The German Embassy is now working to contact Mr Hermannweid's family back in Germany.

-- Phuket Gazette 15/5/09

[Thai at Heart]

German, 57, dies in Phuket after severe vomiting

PATONG, PHUKET: A 57-year-old German national died on the way to hospital in the early hours of May 12 with symptoms similar to those of two tourists who recently died on Phi Phi Island in Krabi.

The deceased, later identified as Ernst Hermannweid, had been staying at the Sky Inn Hotel in Patong.

Mr Hermannweid had gone for a few drinks at a bar in Patong when he complained of feeling unwell.

He returned to his hotel, where he started vomiting violently.

He was taken by a female companion to Patong Hospital, where he was reported as dead on arrival.

Extensive efforts to resuscitate him failed.

The nurse on duty at the time told the Gazette, “We tried to help him but he had passed away before he arrived at the hospital and the body was already turning blue.”

“We are now waiting for his relatives in Germany to confirm whether they would like us to perform an autopsy,” she added.

A source at the hospital said the course of Mr Hermannweid’s rapid demise was consistent with infection by the Eltor-Okawa cholera bacterium that also causes severe diarrhea. However, the source warned that it was impossible to know for sure without a full autopsy.

Mr Hermanweid was employed as a project manager by the M+W Zander consulting company, working in Malaysia and Singapore.

The company has sent a representative to Phuket and they are still waiting for a report.

The German Embassy is now working to contact Mr Hermannweid's family back in Germany.

-- Phuket Gazette 15/5/09

Oh dear. This story seems to want to run and run. I think the BIB had better do a much better job of investigating what caused the original deaths very hastily.

[JR Texas]

German, 57, dies in Phuket after severe vomiting

PATONG, PHUKET: A 57-year-old German national died on the way to hospital in the early hours of May 12 with symptoms similar to those of two tourists who recently died on Phi Phi Island in Krabi.

The deceased, later identified as Ernst Hermannweid, had been staying at the Sky Inn Hotel in Patong.

Mr Hermannweid had gone for a few drinks at a bar in Patong when he complained of feeling unwell.

He returned to his hotel, where he started vomiting violently.

He was taken by a female companion to Patong Hospital, where he was reported as dead on arrival.

Extensive efforts to resuscitate him failed.

The nurse on duty at the time told the Gazette, “We tried to help him but he had passed away before he arrived at the hospital and the body was already turning blue.”

“We are now waiting for his relatives in Germany to confirm whether they would like us to perform an autopsy,” she added.

A source at the hospital said the course of Mr Hermannweid’s rapid demise was consistent with infection by the Eltor-Okawa cholera bacterium that also causes severe diarrhea. However, the source warned that it was impossible to know for sure without a full autopsy.

Mr Hermanweid was employed as a project manager by the M+W Zander consulting company, working in Malaysia and Singapore.

The company has sent a representative to Phuket and they are still waiting for a report.

The German Embassy is now working to contact Mr Hermannweid's family back in Germany.

-- Phuket Gazette 15/5/09

Does this make three, four or five mysterious tourists deaths within the last two months in the same region?

[brahmburgers]

German, 57, dies in Phuket after severe vomiting

PATONG, PHUKET: A 57-year-old German national died on the way to hospital in the early hours of May 12 with symptoms similar to those of two tourists who recently died on Phi Phi Island in Krabi.

The deceased, later identified as Ernst Hermannweid, had been staying at the Sky Inn Hotel in Patong.

Mr Hermannweid had gone for a few drinks at a bar in Patong when he complained of feeling unwell.

He returned to his hotel, where he started vomiting violently.

He was taken by a female companion to Patong Hospital, where he was reported as dead on arrival.

Extensive efforts to resuscitate him failed.

The nurse on duty at the time told the Gazette, “We tried to help him but he had passed away before he arrived at the hospital and the body was already turning blue.”

-- Phuket Gazette 15/5/09

wow, this gets curiouser and curiouser. Same age as me. Condolences all around. Something intense is at work - when otherwise healthy people get sick and die in such a short time. Here's yet another plea for Ms Porthip to offer her able services - though I heard she's busy now with investigating some old container loads of human remains found near the mouth of the Chao Praya river.

[bkkjames]

sounds less like a problem with a one guest room and more like a problem of a lunatic poisioning people.

[balo]

sounds less like a problem with a one guest room and more like a problem of a lunatic poisioning people.

The news from Phuket Gazzete was also published in VG today ,

http://www.vg.no/nyheter/utenriks/artikkel.php?artid=543168

Now this is really something that will lead to more speculations than ever before. Whats going on over there ?

[CFIT]

Does this make three, four or five mysterious tourists deaths within the last two months in the same region?

It makes Six deaths, 2 illnesses recovered

1) The Norwegian man Eric Liuhagnen , 48 on April 1 ( with diarrhea, so different symptom)

2 ) St Onge May 3

3)Bergheim May 4

4 ) Un id'd man in water of Krabi May 5, ( ? ) ( Has tatoo of " Mother" within a heart ) Cause of death not known

5 ) Swedish woman found on Krabi beach ( apparently strangled,not confirmed )

6) And now this man , Ernst Hermannweid,

And this 6th death on Phuket blows the pesticide in the guest house water bottles theory out.

Something else going on here and I think it's deliberate.

Edited May 16, 2009 by CFIT

[balo]

So you think theres a crazy madman on the loose killing tourists ?

Or maybe theres no connection between these cases at all.

[CFIT]

Time to change the thread title;

Mysterious Tourist's Deaths in Andaman Region

From the article;

<<<<<<“We are now waiting for his relatives in Germany to confirm whether they would like us to perform an autopsy,” she added.

A source at the hospital said the course of Mr Hermannweid’s rapid demise was consistent with infection by the Eltor-Okawa cholera bacterium that also causes severe diarrhea. However, the source warned that it was impossible to know for sure without a full autopsy.>>>>>

If cause if death is unknown, isn't an autopsy mandatory?

Cholera causes acute diarrhea, as the source says, Mr. Hermannweid was vomiting.

So now it's cholera??? More dis- information.

Edited May 16, 2009 by CFIT

[JohanBKK]

No autopsy yet ? Why so long ?

[Scott]

My fear is that it is a lunatic doing some random poisoning. If it's 'something' then it can be corrected.

Until there is a resolution, it's scary, even though it's not affecting large numbers of people.

[JR Texas]

Does this make three, four or five mysterious tourists deaths within the last two months in the same region?

It makes Six deaths, 2 illnesses recovered

1) The Norwegian man Eric Liuhagnen , 48 on April 1 ( with diarrhea, so different symptom)

2 ) St Onge May 3

3)Bergheim May 4

4 ) Un id'd man in water of Krabi May 5, ( ? ) ( Has tatoo of " Mother" within a heart ) Cause of death not known

5 ) Swedish woman found on Krabi beach ( apparently strangled,not confirmed )

6) And now this man , Ernst Hermannweid,

And this 6th death on Phuket blows the pesticide in the guest house water bottles theory out.

Something else going on here and I think it's deliberate.

Thanks for the update. This is starting to look more and more like a series of connected events.

My guess is that six unexplained deaths of foreign tourists in the same region in Thailand within a short period of time is unprecedented.

[sriracha john]

Does this make three, four or five mysterious tourists deaths within the last two months in the same region?

It makes Six deaths, 2 illnesses recovered

1) The Norwegian man Eric Liuhagnen , 48 on April 1 ( with diarrhea, so different symptom)

2 ) St Onge May 3

3)Bergheim May 4

4 ) Un id'd man in water of Krabi May 5, ( ? ) ( Has tatoo of " Mother" within a heart ) Cause of death not known

5 ) Swedish woman found on Krabi beach ( apparently strangled,not confirmed )

6) And now this man , Ernst Hermannweid,

And this 6th death on Phuket blows the pesticide in the guest house water bottles theory out.

Something else going on here and I think it's deliberate.

Thanks for the update. This is starting to look more and more like a series of connected events.

My guess is that six unexplained deaths of foreign tourists in the same region in Thailand within a short period of time is unprecedented.

Just a few corrections and additions

Deaths

1. The Norwegian man, Eric Liuhagnen, 48, at Phi Phi

2. The American woman, Jill Sheree St. Onge, 27, at Phi Phi

3. The Norwegian woman, Julie Michelle Bergheim, 22, at Phi Phi

4. Unidentified nationality man, at Phi Phi

Thaivisa thread:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Dead-Foreign...91.html&hl=

Dead Foreigner Found Floating Off Phi Phi Islands

5. The Swiss woman, Edis Jungen, 30, at Krabi

Thaivisa thread:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Swiss-Touris...33.html&hl=

Swiss Tourist Found Strangled On Krabi Beach

6. The German man, Ernst Hermannweid, 57, at Phuket

Thaivisa thread:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/German-57-Di...64.html&hl=

German, 57, Dies In Phuket After Severe Vomiting

Injured

1. The Norwegian woman, "Karina", 20, at Phi Phi

2. The American man, Ryan Kells, 27, at Phi Phi

Edited May 16, 2009 by sriracha john

[TallCoolOne]

The hospital spokesperson was quoted as saying "the course of Mr Hermannweid’s rapid demise was consistent with infection by the Eltor-Okawa cholera bacterium that also causes severe diarrhea. However, the source warned that it was impossible to know for sure without a full autopsy."

First off, it's mispelled. It's El Tor-Ogawa, and it's a strain of cholera that is milder than other forms of cholera. It rarely kills people, and when it does, it's due to severe diarrhea, with vomiting being a somewhat unusual symptom. And if there were a strain of cholera that causes rapid death in 50% of its victims, it would be killing a whole lot more than this small number of people. By now it would be a major humanitarian health crisis.

At any rate, I think we can cross off El Tor as being the causative agent here.

It could be pesticide poisoning, as other posters have mentioned; the World Health Organization estimates that some 300,000 deaths occur in South East Asia from pesticide poisoning each year, though most of these are from chronic exposure over long periods of time.

Acute poisoning generally causes symptoms within 4 hours of ingestion, the sysmptoms often being:

Headache, nausea, dizziness, muscle-twitching, weakness, hypersecretion, miosis and pulmonary edema. Other symptoms can include: anxiety, restlessness, tremor, incoordination, vomiting, abdominal cramps, diarrhea, sweating, salivation, tearing, rhinorrhea, bronchorrhea, blurred or dark vision, chest tightness, wheezing, productive cough, tachycardia, hypertension, sinus arrest, toxic psychosis, confusion, bizarre behavior, unconsciousness, incontinence and convulsions

Death occurs from asphyxiation, caused by both fluid in the lungs and depressed breathing.

The trouble with diagnosing pesticide poisoning is that there are over 3,000 chemicals used in pesticides, so it's hard to narrow it down the specific agent from symptoms alone. Detailed toxicology is necessary to identify the specific agent(s), however a general diagnosis is made by checking the cholinesterase level in the blood or plasma, a 25% reduction below generally normal values being likely indicative.

Treatment is similar to what you would give for nerve agents, like in the military, because pesticides work in much the same way on the nervous system. Primary treatment includes opening the airway, and administering atropine (then, if poison was ingested, pumping of the stomach contents is necessary).

I hope people find this information useful.

[Samuian]

It could be pesticide poisoning, as other posters have mentioned; the World Health Organization estimates that some 300,000 deaths occur in South East Asia from pesticide poisoning each year, though most of these are from chronic exposure over long periods of time.

Acute poisoning generally causes symptoms within 4 hours of ingestion, the sysmptoms often being:

Headache, nausea, dizziness, muscle-twitching, weakness, hypersecretion, miosis and pulmonary edema. Other symptoms can include: anxiety, restlessness, tremor, incoordination, vomiting, abdominal cramps, diarrhea, sweating, salivation, tearing, rhinorrhea, bronchorrhea, blurred or dark vision, chest tightness, wheezing, productive cough, tachycardia, hypertension, sinus arrest, toxic psychosis, confusion, bizarre behavior, unconsciousness, incontinence and convulsions

Death occurs from asphyxiation, caused by both fluid in the lungs and depressed breathing.

The trouble with diagnosing pesticide poisoning is that there are over 3,000 chemicals used in pesticides, ....

Imagining how easy available and how carelessly dealt with, basically YES!

Kell, the one survivor, tried to point towards some strong chemical smell,

he keeps mentioning this and believes that this was the cause of the harm!

Can under certain conditions, simple insecticide Spray, if "overdosed" cause death?

I myself have visited rooms they seemed to be soaked in insecticide and mothballs

all over the place, a good hand full in the wardrobe and drawers.

Next comes to mind cheap, bootleg liquor.... distributed "under the counter"...

Edited May 16, 2009 by Samuian

[kennkate]

Sincere Condolances To family and friends of ALL these people who sadly died here in Thailand.

Whatever the cause of the deaths of these Normaly healthy people

It would appeare that the locals are Immune. So far only Tourists have been affected

More Reason to suspect foul play ?? Contaminated water would affect more people and not just Tourists

Autopsy results. Tissue samples Has Anything been done.

If so we should Know by now Maybe they just want to keep us in the dark until the case is solved

Maybe the Thai Police are working flat out to resolve this. Then again Maybe Not.

Next month Sadly, There will be something going on to take the heat out of this investigation.

[Duangta]

Does this make three, four or five mysterious tourists deaths within the last two months in the same region?

It makes Six deaths, 2 illnesses recovered

1) The Norwegian man Eric Liuhagnen , 48 on April 1 ( with diarrhea, so different symptom)

2 ) St Onge May 3

3)Bergheim May 4

4 ) Un id'd man in water of Krabi May 5, ( ? ) ( Has tatoo of " Mother" within a heart ) Cause of death not known

5 ) Swedish woman found on Krabi beach ( apparently strangled,not confirmed )

6) And now this man , Ernst Hermannweid,

And this 6th death on Phuket blows the pesticide in the guest house water bottles theory out.

Something else going on here and I think it's deliberate.

Thanks for the update. This is starting to look more and more like a series of connected events.

My guess is that six unexplained deaths of foreign tourists in the same region in Thailand within a short period of time is unprecedented.

Just a few corrections and additions

Deaths

1. The Norwegian man, Eric Liuhagnen, 48, at Phi Phi

2. The American woman, Jill Sheree St. Onge, 27, at Phi Phi

3. The Norwegian woman, Julie Michelle Bergheim, 22, at Phi Phi

4. Unidentified nationality man, at Phi Phi

Thaivisa thread:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Dead-Foreign...91.html&hl=

Dead Foreigner Found Floating Off Phi Phi Islands

5. The Swiss woman, Edis Jungen, 30, at Krabi

Thaivisa thread:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Swiss-Touris...33.html&hl=

Swiss Tourist Found Strangled On Krabi Beach

6. The German man, Ernst Hermannweid, 57, at Phuket

Thaivisa thread:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/German-57-Di...64.html&hl=

German, 57, Dies In Phuket After Severe Vomiting

Injured

1. The Norwegian woman, "Karina", 20, at Phi Phi

2. The American man, Ryan Kells, 27, at Phi Phi

If the strangled Swiss person is included, the apparently murdered German man in Khao Lak should be mentioned as well......

Vdo - A German Tourist Was Murdered In Khaolak, Phang Nga

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Vdo-German-T...Kh-t265073.html

[lostboy777]

Did anyone know that there is some kind of new strain of Dengue Fever?

My Thai wife told me it was on the Thai news.

Probably no connection to this but...........?

any thoughts?

[chiang mai]

Thursday, May 7, 2009

No evidence of poisoning in Phi Phi tourist deaths

Laleena Guesthouse on Phi Phi, where two tourists stayed before dying from mystery illnesses.

The area behind Laleena guesthouse

KRABI: Following the mysterious deaths on Phi Phi Island of three foreign tourists in just over a month, Krabi police and doctors are still unable to explain how the American and two Norwegians became fatally ill.

Contrary to initial media reports of possible cyanide poisoning as the cause of the deaths, Krabi police told the Gazette that no evidence has been found to indicate poisoning in any of the three victims and that the initial media report was false. That report was the result of a misunderstanding between the police and the reporter, police said, adding that the reporter responsible has since returned to the police station to apologize for the mistake.

Since the deaths, Krabi Public Health Authority officers have inspected the guesthouses and rooms previously occupied by the victims. According to police, the health officers could not find anything to indicate that any hazardous substances had contaminated the guesthouses’ air-conditioning units, water supply or food. Both guesthouses remain open for business.

In attempts to gather more clues as to the mystery deaths, a team of police officers yesterday inspected bars in the tourist area and took samples of the drinks on sale to be sent for laboratory tests, as two of the victims had reportedly visited a number of bars the night they fell ill. Police are still waiting for the test results.

One of the bar owners who spoke with Gazette reporters said that the deaths were a mystery to everyone and that nothing of this nature had happened before.

Norwegian tourist Erik Liuhagen, 48, died on April 1 at 8am after being admitted to hospital with severe diarrhea. He had been staying in room 119 at the beach-front guesthouse Phi Phi Villa. His body was sent to Bangkok the next day for an autopsy, the results of which have not yet been released, Krabi police told the Gazette.

Just over one month later, on May 3, 26-year-old American tourists Ryan Kells and Jill St. Onge both became ill and were admitted to Krabi Hospital. The pair had been vomiting for some time before going to hospital. Ms St. Onge died later that day. Mr Kells survived the illness.

According to police, the pair were engaged to be married and had been staying at Laleena Guesthouse, which is about 1.5km from where Mr Liuhagen had stayed.

On May 4, Norwegian Julie Michelle Bergheim – who had also been staying at Laleena guesthouse in the room adjacent to Ryan Kells’ & Ms St. Onge’s room – died after becoming mysteriously ill with severe vomiting. She died in hospital while talking to police, a short while after being admitted.

Investigations continue.

-- Phuket Gazette 2009-05-07

– Khunakorn Terdkiatkhachorn

Unless of course you happen to believe that findings of Cyanide in the stomach of a corpse does not constitute poisoning!

[ParadiseLost]

It would appeare that the locals are Immune. So far only Tourists have been affected

I doubt one would find reports of locals falling ill or dying on tv...

Swine flu been considered?

[sabaijai]

Did anyone know that there is some kind of new strain of Dengue Fever?

My Thai wife told me it was on the Thai news.

Probably no connection to this but...........?

any thoughts?

Not likely. The reported symptoms bear no resemblance to those of dengue.

[Valentine]

Did anyone know that there is some kind of new strain of Dengue Fever?

My Thai wife told me it was on the Thai news.

Probably no connection to this but...........?

any thoughts?

FYI & quoting from The Nation. It is very similar to dengue.

"The move came as another mosquito-borne disease, chikungunya, continued to ravage the South.

In the South, where chikungunya has already infected more than 15,000 people, Chumphon is fighting a two-front battle with both chikungunya and dengue fever, said provincial governor Karun Supakitwilekkan."

[CFIT]

Unless of course you happen to believe that findings of Cyanide in the stomach of a corpse does not constitute poisoning!

The police have since recanted this saying it was a misunderstanding. The Norwegian paper stands by its report

" Traces of cyanide ..found in stomache of Bergeim in PRELIMINARY autopsy report. (The cause of death should have been ascertained by last Thursday it also reports..)

However , there has been an explanation offered by a member on another forum for this alleged misunderstanding.

Turning blue upon death or a symptom of asphysiation is referred to as "cyanosis" though it has nothing to do with actual cyanide poisoning which is known to, initially turn the victim a bright red colour .

Could it be a doctor or coroner was overheard using this term, " cyanosis" and this is how this erroneous info got posted?

Just a possibility

Edited May 17, 2009 by CFIT

[baabaabobo]

Unless of course you happen to believe that findings of Cyanide in the stomach of a corpse does not constitute poisoning!

The police have since recanted this saying it was a misunderstanding. The Norwegian paper stands by its report

" Traces of cyanide ..found in stomache of Bergeim in PRELIMINARY autopsy report. (The cause of death should have been ascertained by last Thursday it also reports..)

However , there has been an explanation offered by a member on another forum for this alleged misunderstanding.

Turning blue upon death or a symptom of asphysiation is referred to as "cyanosis" though it has nothing to do with actual cyanide poisoning which is known to, initially turn the victim a bright red colour .

Could it be a doctor or coroner was overheard using this term, " cyanosis" and this is how this erroneous info got posted?

Just a possibility

As in the colour Cyan... interesting.

[CFIT]

Deaths

1. The Norwegian man, Eric Liuhagnen, 48, at Phi Phi

2. The American woman, Jill Sheree St. Onge, 27, at Phi Phi

3. The Norwegian woman, Julie Michelle Bergheim, 22, at Phi Phi

4. Unidentified nationality man, at Phi Phi

Thaivisa thread:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Dead-Foreign...91.html&hl=

Dead Foreigner Found Floating Off Phi Phi Islands

5. The Swiss woman, Edis Jungen, 30, at Krabi

Thaivisa thread:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Swiss-Touris...33.html&hl=

Swiss Tourist Found Strangled On Krabi Beach

6. The German man, Ernst Hermannweid, 57, at Phuket

Thaivisa thread:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/German-57-Di...64.html&hl=

German, 57, Dies In Phuket After Severe Vomiting

Injured

1. The Norwegian woman, "Karina", 20, at Phi Phi

2. The American man, Ryan Kells, 27, at Phi Phi

If the strangled Swiss person is included, the apparently murdered German man in Khao Lak should be mentioned as well......

Vdo - A German Tourist Was Murdered In Khaolak, Phang Nga

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Vdo-German-T...Kh-t265073.html

I believe his friend is being held in connection with that.

What is the preliminary CoD on the un - id'd male body in the water ?

I guess we'll never know.

There must be a way, does Die-land have a Freedom of Info. act?

[brahmburgers]

From Wikipedia:

"Cyanide makes the cells of an organism unable to use oxygen. Inhalation of high concentrations of cyanide causes a coma with seizures, apnea and cardiac arrest, with death following in a matter of minutes. At lower doses, loss of consciousness may be preceded by general weakness, giddiness, headaches, vertigo, confusion, and perceived difficulty in breathing. At the first stages of unconsciousness, breathing is often sufficient or even rapid, although the state of the victim progresses towards a deep coma, sometimes accompanied by pulmonary edema, and finally cardiac arrest. Skin color goes pink from cyanide-hemoglobin complexes. A fatal dose for human can be as low as 1.5mg/kg body weight"

Cyanide may be used by fisherman in the Phi Phi area, as it is still used by Indonesian and Philippine fishermen. The description, above, of poisoning, doesn't mention vomiting - which was a major symptom re; the two young women at Laleena. Even so, cyanide could possibly have been dumped in Laleena's cess pool, and the vapors came up through the unvented, un-trapped plumbing pipes, probably shower drain.

If the initial examination first mentioned cyanide, and then detracted from that - it may have been a cover-up maneuver, when it was found someone might be implicated, and troubles for that person might ensue. It's a lot more diplomatically palatable for local authorities to pin the blame on some generalized thing, such as 'food poisoning' or 'excessive alcohol drinking' - thereby no-one in particular gets the rap, and locals can hope that this whole messy scenario is swept under the rug and forgotten a.s.a.p.

[siamiam]

Cyanide may be used by fisherman in the Phi Phi area, as it is still used by Indonesian and Philippine fishermen. The description, above, of poisoning, doesn't mention vomiting - which was a major symptom re; the two young women at Laleena. Even so, cyanide could possibly have been dumped in Laleena's cess pool, and the vapors came up through the unvented, un-trapped plumbing pipes, probably shower drain.

Many people will already be doing this, but I wanted to post it for those that don't:

Keeping your restrooms sink trap and toilet water levels high enough to prevent sewer gas from passing through them has already been mentioned. What I do for shower/floor drains is to get a plastic bag that is air tight, like what you get from Seven-Eleven stores, and fill the bag to about 1/4 or so capacity with water, (you can experiment with the amount of water you need to use). Then tie the handle parts of the bag together and place the bag over the drain. The water in the bag will spread over the drain and create a decent seal, usually good enough to keep gas from passing the drain. Granted, with enough air pressure in the drain, the gas would be forced pass the bag, but I found this to be a good thing to do on the spur of the moment. Not sure who, if anyone, then becomes the unlucky recipient of the gas though. This also presents an obstacle to unwanted crawling and flying insects from passing through the drain as well.

Edited May 17, 2009 by siamiam