Alternative Retirement Destinations For Expats (other Than Thailand)

[bangkokburning]

I don't think so. I believe if a Thai national is married to an American, they still apply for B1/2 unless they are looking to relocate.

Believe that is six month period, not six months in any calendar year.

By you stating this:

Yes there are many such spots, but the USA does not offer any type of retirement visa for foreigners.

I surmise that a US national could retire in his or her home country and have their wife, boy/girlfriend with them the balance of the time. In fact, if they both went abroad for a few trips each year. They could potentially be by each others side twelve mos a year.

So what's the issue? People "retire" here on TRs all the time.

In fact, there are LOADS of Europeans living in Florida on the B1/2 - RETIRED.

[Jingthing]

Six months a year is hardly what most people desire when retiring abroad. Yes, I know perfectly well the USA has plenty of these part time foreign retirees. I also know many are very unhappy with the limited time they can stay, especially if they own their US home (and many do).

I also think the focus of this thread is people mostly from the west looking for alternatives for foreign retirement not so much what to do with your Thai love interest. If the USA had a visa for this, it would indeed be a lot more popular as the cost factors have improved a lot, cheap housing, cheap food, cheap cars, cheap gas, great climate choices, fantastic Mexican and Chinese food, friendly people whose smiles though not overabundant are REAL, but unfortunately massively expensive HEALTH CARE.

[bangkokburning]

You are just making excuses.

The B1/2 is actually a NON-IMMIGRANT visa good for TEN YEARS. It only asks that you leave the country and return. It requires no money, no purchase of housing, no bribes, NO REPORTING, NO BABYSITTING.

WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT? How much of a problem is a flight home OR Canada or Cancun, Mexico or the Bahama's - possibly even Puerto Rico?!

90% of expats in Thailand would give their left nut for this option.

Yes, there are some wealthy Europeans that feel inconvenienced. So what, US gets only half the time in Europe before we have to leave.

[Jingthing]

Yes, it is an option for many. No, it is not an option for FULL TIME retirement. We are agreed on this, I think, so give it a rest.

[Naam]

You are just making excuses.

The B1/2 is actually a NON-IMMIGRANT visa good for TEN YEARS. It only asks that you leave the country and return. It requires no money, no purchase of housing, no bribes, NO REPORTING, NO BABYSITTING.

WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT? How much of a problem is a flight home OR Canada or Cancun, Mexico or the Bahama's - possibly even Puerto Rico?!

90% of expats in Thailand would give their left nut for this option.

Yes, there are some wealthy Europeans that feel inconvenienced. So what, US gets only half the time in Europe before we have to leave.

we lived 15 years in the U.S. based on this visa moving between our homes in Germany and Florida. after sep 11 the goal posts changed. when arriving in the U.S. questions such as "who are, what are you, why are you?" were asked. most of the time we faced polite immigration officers but sometimes extremely rude ones, i.e. "keep your tax returns! we are the INS not the IRS!"

shortly before Christmas 2003 my wife called me from Atlanta under tears. she returned from a trip to London and was asked the usual question "what is the purpose of your visit?" when her answer was "we have a home in Florida and spend most of our time there" she was told "having a home in Florida is not a valid reason to enter the United States. this time i will grant you admission. but don't bank on it next time"

three months later our home and the homes i built for two german friends next to ours were sold and we left.

result: no more IRS, no more fancy property tax, no more hurricane insurance premiums but polite immigration officers at Suvarnaswampy.

[Naam]

Yes, it is an option for many. No, it is not an option for FULL TIME retirement. We are agreed on this, I think, so give it a rest.

it WAS an option for full time retirement. a flight to the Bahamas, having a cup of coffee at the airport and returning a couple of hours later to get another six months admission was a piece of cake. a lot of foreigners who did not own a second home used that method.

[Jingthing]

Interesting history there, thanks for sharing.

[Naam]

Interesting history there, thanks for sharing.

after nearly seven years in Thailand my wife is still craving for the U.S. JT! a very comfortable life, best neighbours one can think of, no language problems and most of all she misses driving her own car instead of using a driver.

[Jingthing]

Interesting history there, thanks for sharing.

after nearly seven years in Thailand my wife is still craving for the U.S. JT! a very comfortable life, best neighbours one can think of, no language problems and most of all she misses driving her own car instead of using a driver.

Understood. I may end up there myself and for me, no visa needed!

[craigt3365]

Interesting history there, thanks for sharing.

after nearly seven years in Thailand my wife is still craving for the U.S. JT! a very comfortable life, best neighbours one can think of, no language problems and most of all she misses driving her own car instead of using a driver.

My wife is really torn between here and the US. She was quite upset when we sold our Manhattan condo. She loved it there. I did too...but NYC is sooooooo expensive. Very difficult to retire there unless you have a really decent income. Plus, it snows there!

She won't drive here in Thailand, but is comfortable in the US. Especially where my Mom lives...60 miles away from the nearest big town!

Like you JT, I think we will end up back there in 4-5 years or so....until then, beers by the pool are in order...gotta go!

[bangkokburning]

Naam, that is very informative series of posts, thanks for that. I am sorry for the treatment you rec'd from INS/DHS. I really do not know what has happened to my country.

I am mixed about returning for good but the increasingly consistent hot weather, flooding, political situation, lack of marine life, inability to own land/home and visa nonsense - all giving me pause. My hunch is when the marine life is finished here, I won't be far after.

To bring the conversation back to topic - I struggle where to resettle in the US. I struggle with settling down (and marrying) as well. Healthcare still is a long way from being solved.

[Renoir]

Peru seems also an attractive country to retire.The view is amazing and the people friendly. Spanish is an easy language to learn. The cost of living is low, probably lower than in Thailand if you don't live in downtown Lima. In many areas of the country, it is not hot at all but not cold either. It is a nice place for those who love nature and people like foreigners so it is easy to make friends and find a spouse if this is what you want.

On the negative side, there is less things to do than in Thailand and it is not as safe but it is not dangerous if you are prudent. For those who enjoy the company of prostitutes, it is not the best place to be.

Renoir.

[Jingthing]

Peru -- no retirement visa and no other visa that retirees can use to fake it. Business, yes, but you need to prove legit and not easy. You could do visa border runs the last I heard, but there is no guarantee they won't stop you someday and say go home. If I'm wrong, show me the proof. That said, I enjoyed my one trip to Peru, loved the food (besides Peruvian, also good sushi, and potentially good Peruvian-Chinese though I didn't find it), and I disagree that you can't find prostitutes, at least in Lima, they will find you ... ha ha.

Hopefully Peru will see the light someday soon and offer a retirement visa. But I wouldn't hold my breath.

[Jingthing]

Regarding COLUMBIA, can someone post some CURRENT credible visa info. I know they do have a retired pensioners visa but I have heard different stories on the level they will accept. One side says rather a high number, higher than even the MAXIMUM USA social security benefit. Another side says ANY amount pension MAY be accepted by your nearest embassy or consulate. I think before I posed a link to a Texas consulate where they simply did not even specify an amount needed for your pension.

The poster who suggested COLUMBIA wrote a teaser saying the visas were straightforward and easy. My first guess was indeed COLUMBIA, but because he touted the visas, I decided he was talking PANAMA. I remain unconvinced that Columbia is an easy visa country. It may be for the wealthier among us though. Again, please post details. What's the point wasting time and money researching/visiting a country for retirement exploration if most of us can't get visas there?

[Renoir]

Peru -- no retirement visa and no other visa that retirees can use to fake it. Business, yes, but you need to prove legit and not easy. You could do visa border runs the last I heard, but there is no guarantee they won't stop you someday and say go home. If I'm wrong, show me the proof. That said, I enjoyed my one trip to Peru, loved the food (besides Peruvian, also good sushi, and potentially good Peruvian-Chinese though I didn't find it), and I disagree that you can't find prostitutes, at least in Lima, they will find you ... ha ha.

Hopefully Peru will see the light someday soon and offer a retirement visa. But I wouldn't hold my breath.

Peru has a retirement visa. You need only a proof of an income of1000$ a month and a few other legal requirements to apply. I cannot postthe link here because I am a new member (it says that I need to be register formore than 72 hours to post links). These are the requirements for"rentier":

An affidavit that statesthe willing to recourse to the migration status of rentier.

An affidavit of no havingcriminal record, police report and judicial record nationally andinternationally.

Certified or authenticatedcopy of the original document attesting that the applicant receives a monthlyincome of not less than one thousand U.S. dollars which should be legalized inthe Peruvian consulate and authenticated by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs ofthe country from which the income comes.

A certificate that moneyenters to the country through a banking institution.

Concerningthe prostitutes topic, I did not mean to say that there is no prostitution in Peru. I simplymeant that it is less widespread than in Thailand.

Renoir

[Awohalitsiktoli]

Regarding COLUMBIA, can someone post some CURRENT credible visa info. I know they do have a retired pensioners visa but I have heard different stories on the level they will accept. One side says rather a high number, higher than even the MAXIMUM USA social security benefit. Another side says ANY amount pension MAY be accepted by your nearest embassy or consulate. I think before I posed a link to a Texas consulate where they simply did not even specify an amount needed for your pension.

The poster who suggested COLUMBIA wrote a teaser saying the visas were straightforward and easy. My first guess was indeed COLUMBIA, but because he touted the visas, I decided he was talking PANAMA. I remain unconvinced that Columbia is an easy visa country. It may be for the wealthier among us though. Again, please post details. What's the point wasting time and money researching/visiting a country for retirement exploration if most of us can't get visas there?

Hi again. Just do some searching on the internet and ask around. You have to show them, as far as I can tell from a distance, that you have an income and can take care of yourself (not be a burden on the State). How much that income is seems very unclear. In fact, as you can see below, they do not even state it. My guess is that some money is given under the table I took this off the internet. It is the requirement for a pension-based retirement in Colombia. There is also an investment retirement program, etc. If you get solid information, please post it.

1. Valid Passport with at least 3 available pages and good for a minimum of 6 months.2. Two (2) passport copies. plain copies please.3. Visa application form duly signed and filled out in duplicate.4. Three (3) colored passport-type pictures.5. Original of the certificate issued by the proper authority be it a government, a public or private enterprise; or by a foreign company, in which it is stated that the applicant receives a pension. This certificate must be duly legalized by the colombian consul or APOSTILLED, whichever applies.6. If you are a U.S. Citizen you are exempt of the $175us fee.7. Proof that financial capacity is sufficient to take care of expenses while in the country Cordially,Consulate General of Colombia San Francisco"I notice he didn't say anything about a police report from the states or mention specifically what is "financial capacity sufficient to take care of expenses while in the county." Also how does one get social security "apostilled"? I'll give him a call tomorrow.

More from a person living there:

You do not reapply each year. I have been here almost three years and only did it once after my original Visa. For some it is one year others it is two years. I had a one year Visa (I don't know why) and this time I got a 2 year Visa. Yes you do have to reapply after you visa expires depending on the expiration date. It could be one or two years. But after 4-5 years you get your perm residency and you don't have to reapply after that for a long time. I may be off on the dates a bit, but the important thing is that it isn't every year."As long as you can prove you have a good establishment of financial assets don't worry. You won't have problem. Once you are here it is not that difficult to get a pension visa or residency as one might think. What's wrong with rental income? Nothing...same with dividends and interest income. The key word is income.And you always save everything because you may need again in the future. Some things can be reused. The rules don't change that much. Cedula's are simple to get as long as you have completed the documents correctly and don't try to hide stuff. The one thing you will be told in here which is the best piece of info you can get is...tell the truth.

[craigt3365]

Peru -- no retirement visa and no other visa that retirees can use to fake it. Business, yes, but you need to prove legit and not easy. You could do visa border runs the last I heard, but there is no guarantee they won't stop you someday and say go home. If I'm wrong, show me the proof. That said, I enjoyed my one trip to Peru, loved the food (besides Peruvian, also good sushi, and potentially good Peruvian-Chinese though I didn't find it), and I disagree that you can't find prostitutes, at least in Lima, they will find you ... ha ha.

Hopefully Peru will see the light someday soon and offer a retirement visa. But I wouldn't hold my breath.

Peru has a retirement visa. You need only a proof of an income of1000$ a month and a few other legal requirements to apply. I cannot postthe link here because I am a new member (it says that I need to be register formore than 72 hours to post links). These are the requirements for"rentier":

An affidavit that statesthe willing to recourse to the migration status of rentier.

An affidavit of no havingcriminal record, police report and judicial record nationally andinternationally.

Certified or authenticatedcopy of the original document attesting that the applicant receives a monthlyincome of not less than one thousand U.S. dollars which should be legalized inthe Peruvian consulate and authenticated by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs ofthe country from which the income comes.

A certificate that moneyenters to the country through a banking institution.

Concerningthe prostitutes topic, I did not mean to say that there is no prostitution in Peru. I simplymeant that it is less widespread than in Thailand.

Renoir

If you want, PM either JT or myself and we will post that link for you.

I spent about 3 weeks in Peru, entered at the Ecuador border and left at Lake Titicaca. Didn't really like Lima, but enjoyed traveling around the country. Obviously, Machu Picchu and the trek there is incredible. I missed the Huaraz area, unfortunately, and have heard it is amazing. We really liked Arequipa...cool city. Colca Canyon is a must see also.

Petty crime is rampant in most of SA and CA. Peru is no exception.

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

You are just making excuses.

The B1/2 is actually a NON-IMMIGRANT visa good for TEN YEARS. It only asks that you leave the country and return. It requires no money, no purchase of housing, no bribes, NO REPORTING, NO BABYSITTING.

WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT? How much of a problem is a flight home OR Canada or Cancun, Mexico or the Bahama's - possibly even Puerto Rico?!

90% of expats in Thailand would give their left nut for this option.

Yes, there are some wealthy Europeans that feel inconvenienced. So what, US gets only half the time in Europe before we have to leave.

we lived 15 years in the U.S. based on this visa moving between our homes in Germany and Florida. after sep 11 the goal posts changed. when arriving in the U.S. questions such as "who are, what are you, why are you?" were asked. most of the time we faced polite immigration officers but sometimes extremely rude ones, i.e. "keep your tax returns! we are the INS not the IRS!"

shortly before Christmas 2003 my wife called me from Atlanta under tears. she returned from a trip to London and was asked the usual question "what is the purpose of your visit?" when her answer was "we have a home in Florida and spend most of our time there" she was told "having a home in Florida is not a valid reason to enter the United States. this time i will grant you admission. but don't bank on it next time"

three months later our home and the homes i built for two german friends next to ours were sold and we left.

result: no more IRS, no more fancy property tax, no more hurricane insurance premiums but polite immigration officers at Suvarnaswampy.

Naam

If anything it has gotten worse and it makes no difference if you are a citizen or not. They basically treat everyone like criminals. They only seem to hire a$$holes with no common sense.

The wife and I left The Greatest Country on Earth in 1982 and for the first 20 years spent less than 6 months there total, in the last 10 years I spent a total of three weeks before this trip. So I see many really impressive changes and if it wasn't for the government it would be a marvelous place to live. We recently bought a townhouse in North Idaho as we have family there and wanted to spend time with them. The prices are less than the building cost if you shop around.

we bought a 3BR 2 1/2 Ba 1760 sq ft. (about 160 sq mt) foreclosure that had never been lived in. We have only been here for 6 weeks but I must say I really enjoy it. The drivers do what you expect and stay in there own lane and follow the rules of the road. My wife even drives here and would never drive in Thailand. The food in the super markets is mind blowing for both the quantity and the quality.. The people are friendly and will even say "I don't know" and not lose face. The thing I like most is the ease in striking up a conversation with someone and being able to understand what they are saying.

We will return to Cha Am on the 15th of September and stay there until next summer in Idaho, chances are good our next trip to the US will be a bit longer than this one. Medical is a huge problem and I would not recommend the US unless you have insurance. We signed up for medicare and bought a supplement that covers everything so we have no problems there, the $9060 a year for the two of us was a bit of a shock though. But since I am older than dirt and didn't sign up at 65 I pay a penalty of 10% per year or 120% more than someone else my age. Paying a penalty for not costing anything is more than a little strange, but that is part of the wisdumb of the Govt.

It is almost 8PM and it is bright and sunny, quite a change. The temp hit 89F today, and yes they still have not taken up the metric system for some strange reason, to complicated for the politicians I think. There are things we miss about Thailand. I know my wife misses our housekeeper and her cat, which we will bring next time. The cat that is. But for the most part we have been to busy to miss much.

BT

[craigt3365]

I have a friend who just bought a place on Couer d'Alene. He's got bucks though. Another friend is in Sandpoint right now...what a beautiful part of the world. A least during the summer!

[Jingthing]

OK, sorry my info was out of date about the Peru retirement visa option. Yes, it appears it does exist. You must be 60 and there are some of the usual onerous documentation rules you might expect in South America.

Here is one link --

http://www.meetmyperu.com/rentista-visas/

This part of the process sounds over the top --

Recent Changes to Rentista Visa

To obtain the sacred Peruvian Natioanl ID Card which allows you to open a bank account and not visit the Immigration Office on a monthly basis after three months is not all that hard to get. They have changed how you will prove the income, before they were requiring that the money go thru a Peruvian Bank now you must get a letter from the Institution that will be paying you the money stating the amount and how long the payment will be made. This letter must either be taken to a Peruvian Consulate abroad or notarized by the Embassy where the letter was issued. The letter must be translated into Spanish by an Official Translator and then taken to the Public Notaries office that will in turn accept it and stamp it yet again. You will then return to the lovely immigrations office and turn the document in proving income the Forumlario F007 completed, DONT SIGN IT UNTIL YOU GET TO THE IMMIGRATIONS OFFICE and you are in front of the person accepting the application. You will also need to surrender a copy of your Passport and have your original available for inspection. All processing of the applications and questions should be directed to the third floor at window(s) 8 or 9. Oh, finally you will need to obtain the Resident Card outside of Peru thru a local consulate.

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

I have a friend who just bought a place on Couer d'Alene. He's got bucks though. Another friend is in Sandpoint right now...what a beautiful part of the world. A least during the summer!

Craig

It is a really pretty place lots of lakes and trees, Good hunting and fishing and skiing in the winter. Lots to do and see. We find it a very nice place to spend the summer. And should Thailand ever go down the toilet we're covered. Also when I kick off the wife would like to be near family. Now if they straighten out the economy things would be great.

BT

[Renoir]

I sent you a link from a Peruvian government site concerning Visa in Peru. I cannot post it because I am a new member. Can you post it for me? On the site for which I sent you a link, there is no mention of the need to be 60 years old to get a retirement visa. Now I wonder what exactly are the requirements. I sent an email to a Peruvian friend and I hope to get a clear answer.

Renoir

OK, sorry my info was out of date about the Peru retirement visa option. Yes, it appears it does exist. You must be 60 and there are some of the usual onerous documentation rules you might expect in South America.

This part of the process sounds over the top --

Recent Changes to Rentista Visa

To obtain the sacred Peruvian Natioanl ID Card which allows you to open a bank account and not visit the Immigration Office on a monthly basis after three months is not all that hard to get. They have changed how you will prove the income, before they were requiring that the money go thru a Peruvian Bank now you must get a letter from the Institution that will be paying you the money stating the amount and how long the payment will be made. This letter must either be taken to a Peruvian Consulate abroad or notarized by the Embassy where the letter was issued. The letter must be translated into Spanish by an Official Translator and then taken to the Public Notaries office that will in turn accept it and stamp it yet again. You will then return to the lovely immigrations office and turn the document in proving income the Forumlario F007 completed, DONT SIGN IT UNTIL YOU GET TO THE IMMIGRATIONS OFFICE and you are in front of the person accepting the application. You will also need to surrender a copy of your Passport and have your original available for inspection. All processing of the applications and questions should be directed to the third floor at window(s) 8 or 9. Oh, finally you will need to obtain the Resident Card outside of Peru thru a local consulate.

[Jingthing]

OK, you're right, no mention of age 60.

Just read there was a major revision of the rentista visa in 2008. PERHAPS they dropped the age restrictions there to none? Ask your friend, yes.

http://www.digemin.gob.pe/servicios_inmigracion_visas_residentes.html

[Renoir]

Hello,

My Peruvian friend is not sure about the age requirement for a retirement visa but she told me that I need a visa only if I want to work there or retire there. Otherwise, she told me I can visit Peru without visa, simply as a tourist,and leave the country after six months then go back again as a tourist for six more months. She says that she knows a lot of foreigners living in Peru just like that for many years.

Renoir

OK, you're right, no mention of age 60.

Just read there was a major revision of the rentista visa in 2008. PERHAPS they dropped the age restrictions there to none? Ask your friend, yes.

[bangkokburning]

Peru after the backpacking would never do it for me. I'd be looking at Venezuela, Panama, Nicaragua possibly Belize (think that is pretty done). But I need a coast.

I've thought about some little place on a lake in upper Michigan, Washington...but you need an add'l place for winters. Too bad there is no input from E Europe and Balkans, I bet Serbia, Croatia, Yugoslavia could be nice. Anyone have any experience with the lower Virginia and esp Georgia coasts of the USA? How about Alaska for six months a year??

I think too many people are married to the idea of going to one place, having a essentially 'indefinite' visa (JT) as well as lovely temperate year round weather. 23 pages of posts and no one has come u with that paradise. There is nothing wrong with having to do a bi of a visa run every few months.

As I understand this was SOP for most CA expats up until a few years ago - and as Renoir states, still being done in many countries in S/CA to date. The real sticking point is if the visa running is condoned. Think Thailand some years back...visas flowed like wine, 30 days stamps at the door. Only the idiots and the infirm would bother with the hassle.

[Tomtomtom69]

How about China? Or are all the westerners on this forum and in general scared of getting stared and ogled at everywhere they go? To be honest, there is nothing wrong with China. It's the world's second largest economy and therefore much, much more relevant to this world (and to the US and every other large economy) than Thailand ever will be.

Why are westerners (seemingly) so scared of China? Can't speak the language? Nobody can speak English? Who cares! Learn the language! Also, if more foreigners bothered going there it might reduce the starring and all that other mildly discomforting stuff that one rarely encounters in Thailand anymore.

I think living in Sipsongbanna, for example in Meng La (Muang La) or Jinghong (Chiang Rung), both of which are located close to the Lao and Burmese borders would be nice. The climate, culture, food, etc. are all relatively similar to Thailand and Laos, only the infrastructure etc. is much better on the Chinese side than on the Lao side. Of course, there would have to be a Chinese visa that would allow you to retire there, similar to Thailand and Malaysia. I'm not sure if there is, but in general China is making lots of effort to bring foreigners in, not keep them out like in days gone by. Sure, there are plenty of foreigners in big cities like Shanghai, Beijing and Guangzhou, but everytime I cross between Vietnam and China, and China and Laos you will notice the vast difference between these neighbors. There are hundreds of foreigners travelling through Lao Cai, Vietnam on the Chinese border everyday, but I have never seen any non-Vietnamese foreigners in Hekou, the Chinese town on the opposite side of the river.

If you want to live somewhere different, where being a foreigner is still kind of a novelty, try China. Seriously. The people are nice, the food is great, the scenery in many parts of the country quite breathtaking and the prices still low. Plus China is a very exciting place at the moment. Of course, not everywhere in China is ideal, but if you try living in a medium size city (by Chinese standards) you should be alright. Apart from the cities mentioned above, which are quite small, try Kunming for more international flavor in terms of places to eat, go shopping, connections to the outside world and relatively low levels of pollution etc. Other alternatives would be Chengdu, although it's bigger and more polluted or Qingdao in the north, but winters there are frigid, or Hainan perhaps.

Again, I think the viability of China mostly depends on the visa situation. Although i know a fair bit about Chinese visas (tourist, business, student and working visas) I don't know if there is a retirement visa or something equivalent.

[Jingthing]

China, absolutely no retirement visa. Prove me otherwise.

(Working, visa, business, yes, of course.)

Of course China is a fascinating country, can't argue that.

[Chittychangchang]

What about Malaysia...10 year visa and you can own land!

[Soutpeel]

What about Malaysia...10 year visa and you can own land!

Provied you are prepared to put up the cash....

[PattayaParent]

The usual report with no indication of retirement visa availability or feasibility.

http://finance.yahoo.com/retirement/article/113064/great-places-to-retire-abroad-kiplinger?mod=retire-planning