The Term "Farang"

[electau]

Oh GREAT, good to see, this thread about what I like to call; "the 'F' word" has still refused to die a slow death as it should have LONG ago .

FWIW: Here's a "Mock-u-mentary" posted on You Tube which should clear up any questions you have about the word;

A very insulting video.

Are farangs under the protection of the strict Thai derogatory laws? Does not appear so.

I found it a very funny video clip and so true in many cases, by the way I am a WASP. (Whiteman)

Edited July 31, 2010 by electau

[Jingthing]

Not again. God help us all ...

Good lord JT, you're hardly one to talk. You had your run with this topic. Now it's somebody else's turn.

Jingthing seems to think that he is more interesting and entertaining than most of the other posters on the forum, so should be given a little leeway.

I have to admit that I agree with him.

The problem, UG, is that JT seems to be a little overly confident in his knowledge of all things Thai. I'll concede that he does have above average knowledge on many things--but this is not one of them. The word farang did originate from the Thai word for French people. And I take it that he's offended by this word. He shouldn't be. It's a descriptive word that has a purpose and is used by Thai's for that reason. It's not meant to offend--it never has. To compare the word "farang" to truly offensive words used in, say, America, is disingenuous at best. There are many racially charged words in the US, the "N" word being the worst. The word "oriental" is similar to "colored people"--that is, it is an outdated term that harkens to the day when America was much more racist than it is today. In order for a word to be truly offensive, there has to be some history behind it. I doubt "farangs" in Thailand ever faced the sort of racism that African Americans, Asians, Native Americans, etc., had to deal with back in the day. Dual pricing? Visa regs? That's a joke, compared to lynchings, cross burnings, slavery, etc.

The origin is originally from the ARABIC. Nothing to do with French colonialism in S.E. Asia. That's a total wive's tale. If Thais believe that, consider that most believe in ghosts and that their education is substandard. BTW, in Malay, an area heavily influenced by the Arab world and never colonized by the French either, the word is ferenggi.

[Kwasaki]

Not again. God help us all ...

Good lord JT, you're hardly one to talk. You had your run with this topic. Now it's somebody else's turn.

Jingthing seems to think that he is more interesting and entertaining than most of the other posters on the forum, so should be given a little leeway.

I have to admit that I agree with him.

Right I'll keep this for when it's posted again, just for you Jingthing I know you like it really.

Ok ! get a load of this then.

Farang

Used in Thai language as a generic term for foreigner, typically used to refer to those of

European ancestry and strangely enough also black Africans.

It is also used and refers to plants or animals that are foreign in origin e.g. Potato.

The word Farang derives from "Français" because the French people were among,

if not, the first Caucasian foreigners presented in the Kingdom of Thailand.

This may be derogatory depending on context.

[Jingthing]

There is no way farang was derived from Francais. Just because a false myth gets repeated over and over doesn't make it true.

[Kwasaki]

There is no way farang was derived from Francais. Just because a false myth gets repeated over and over doesn't make it true.

Well whatever that definition was from Wikipedia, the only thing I know it's a Thai word that they use and there definition of it is Westerner.

[Jingthing]

There is no way farang was derived from Francais. Just because a false myth gets repeated over and over doesn't make it true.

Well whatever that definition was from Wikipedia, the only thing I know it's a Thai word that they use and there definition of it is Westerner.

Yes it is an informal (often impolite) word meaning white skinned western foreigner (more or less). Can be used as a noun or adjective.

[Garry9999]

There is no way farang was derived from Francais. Just because a false myth gets repeated over and over doesn't make it true.

Jingthing is right, and that's the first time I've every said that!

[Birdman]

Yes it is an informal (often impolite) word meaning white skinned western foreigner (more or less). Can be used as a noun or adjective.

no, not often impolite. Make a poll in a Thai forum...

And it probably came from the French. Why? Because they were the first Farang here making themselves known on a massive scale.

[Jingthing]

I give up. If it makes people happy to believe that French old wive's tale, I reckon there's no harm in it.

[Garry9999]

For those referring to vegetables and fruits.

Man or mun (มัน) is a root vegetable other wise now as cassava or tapioca.

When the potato is introduced to Thailand it becomes mun farang i.e foreign cassava. มันฝรั่ง

[Ulysses G.]

Not again. God help us all ...

Good lord JT, you're hardly one to talk. You had your run with this topic. Now it's somebody else's turn.

Jingthing seems to think that he is more interesting and entertaining than most of the other posters on the forum, so should be given a little leeway.

I have to admit that I agree with him.

The problem, UG, is that JT seems to be a little overly confident in his knowledge of all things Thai. I'll concede that he does have above average knowledge on many things--but this is not one of them. The word farang did originate from the Thai word for French people. And I take it that he's offended by this word. He shouldn't be. It's a descriptive word that has a purpose and is used by Thai's for that reason. It's not meant to offend--it never has. To compare the word "farang" to truly offensive words used in, say, America, is disingenuous at best. There are many racially charged words in the US, the "N" word being the worst. The word "oriental" is similar to "colored people"--that is, it is an outdated term that harkens to the day when America was much more racist than it is today. In order for a word to be truly offensive, there has to be some history behind it. I doubt "farangs" in Thailand ever faced the sort of racism that African Americans, Asians, Native Americans, etc., had to deal with back in the day. Dual pricing? Visa regs? That's a joke, compared to lynchings, cross burnings, slavery, etc.

I agree with you. I said that he is interesting and entertaining, but that does not mean that he is right.

[Garry9999]

Yes it is an informal (often impolite) word meaning white skinned western foreigner (more or less). Can be used as a noun or adjective.

no, not often impolite. Make a poll in a Thai forum...

And it probably came from the French. Why? Because they were the first Farang here making themselves known on a massive scale.

Can you give me dates of when the French where in Thailand on a massive scale please?

[Jingthing]

Agreed, UG, I'm not always right, nobody is. But I am right about this Frenchie thing. The Arabic origin of the farang word (found in many countries including Ethiopia) predates the French in SE Asia.

But carry on believing it. BTW, at what age did you stop believing the tooth fairy?

Edited July 31, 2010 by Jingthing

[jayjayjayjay]

"Farang" a negative term,,,,,,,,,, BS......... barking up the wrong tree

[Birdman]

Yes it is an informal (often impolite) word meaning white skinned western foreigner (more or less). Can be used as a noun or adjective.

no, not often impolite. Make a poll in a Thai forum...

And it probably came from the French. Why? Because they were the first Farang here making themselves known on a massive scale.

Can you give me dates of when the French where in Thailand on a massive scale please?

In Rattanakosin era, during the Paknam crisis in 1893 the French colonist army occupied the western part of Chantaburi. In 1904 in order to get back Chantaburi Siam had to give Trat to French Indochina. Trat became part of Thailand again on March 23, 1906 in exchange for many areas east of the Mekong river like Battambang, Siam Nakhon and Sisophon.

During the Indochina War, the French Navy tried to seize Trat again. The French – Thai Battle broke out on 5 January 1941. The battle ended 17 January at Ko Chang, when three Thai ships were sunk - the HTMS Chonburi, HTMS Songkhla and HTMS Thonburi. Later the Japanese ended the conflict by diplomacy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trat_Province

[Garry9999]

Yes it is an informal (often impolite) word meaning white skinned western foreigner (more or less). Can be used as a noun or adjective.

no, not often impolite. Make a poll in a Thai forum...

And it probably came from the French. Why? Because they were the first Farang here making themselves known on a massive scale.

Can you give me dates of when the French where in Thailand on a massive scale please?

In Rattanakosin era, during the Paknam crisis in 1893 the French colonist army occupied the western part of Chantaburi. In 1904 in order to get back Chantaburi Siam had to give Trat to French Indochina. Trat became part of Thailand again on March 23, 1906 in exchange for many areas east of the Mekong river like Battambang, Siam Nakhon and Sisophon.

During the Indochina War, the French Navy tried to seize Trat again. The French – Thai Battle broke out on 5 January 1941. The battle ended 17 January at Ko Chang, when three Thai ships were sunk - the HTMS Chonburi, HTMS Songkhla and HTMS Thonburi. Later the Japanese ended the conflict by diplomacy

http://en.wikipedia....i/Trat_Province

Likely cognates of farang are found in many languages and many countries, stretching from the Middle East out to Oceania. It was almost certainly spread by Persian traders across mainland Asia many centuries ago. Such traders arrived in Siam by the 16th century, bringing along with their wares the word farangi, meaning Westerner or white man, from the Arabic word "faranji", and ultimately referring to the Germanic tribe the Franks, dating from the crusades, perhaps as early as the turn of the first millennium.

Edited July 31, 2010 by Garry9999

[jayjayjayjay]

I am in 100% agreement with 473Geo on the getting to know people in the fact that I am not a stand-offish person. As a Program Manager/Mfg Transfer coordinator 100% of my job is interpersonal engagement. So I introduce myself and we exchange names. I am always called by my name and we exchange courtesy's as applicable. I speak enough Thai to be polite and do not behave in a way that seems to be the belief Thai people have of "Farang's". After hour activities I am usually always with my girlfriend and Thai workers/colleagues and we do many various social things together. I will say that in further discussions with my friends that the name "Farang" clearly has deeper derogatory connotations in areas like Pattaya, Phuket and BKK. In my nearly 3 years I have not been to Pattaya nor Phuket and have no desire too. In the very beginning I stayed in BKK as the company set me up there but I quickly rented an apartment way outside there and closer to the company and I only to go into BKK for various needs and supplies but never down in the heart on Wireless Road, NaNa, Suhkamvit etc.

My final take on this is that it still appears to me to be a racial term to a great degree but your personal behavior depicts how your are perceived. I do not like the word and will not use even in jokingly manner out of respect for the Thai people and the foreigner colleague I might interact with. I will learn their name and "Farang" becomes moot.

I am sorry for all the folks that had to read "Another Thread" about this subject so maybe this one should be pinned or a link attached to it. There has been some very good content in the varying reply posts. I would have read that long before I would have posted.

Carry on.......

What a load of crap...... I made my first post based on your nieve first post, this second one is much straighter..... Farang is NOT a derogatory or racist term. You say that Farang clearly has deeper derogatory connotatinos in areas like Pattaya..... Rubbish. Farang is a word, it is a term to describe a group of homosapiens that are generally of Anglo-Saxan background. What an unusually high number of these persons do in Pattaya is unacceptable behavior due to the average tourist point of view, the fact they are farang or called farang has nothing to do with the term being derogatory. If someone calls you a farang there honestly is nothing to it, so dont create something from it.

[Ulysses G.]

Agreed, UG, I'm not always right, nobody is. But I am right about this Frenchie thing.

Are you daring to question the explanation of my Thai teacher at AUA twenty years ago?

[zzaa09]

The problem, UG, is that JT seems to be a little overly confident in his knowledge of all things Thai. I'll concede that he does have above average knowledge on many things--but this is not one of them. The word farang did originate from the Thai word for French people. And I take it that he's offended by this word. He shouldn't be. It's a descriptive word that has a purpose and is used by Thai's for that reason. It's not meant to offend--it never has. To compare the word "farang" to truly offensive words used in, say, America, is disingenuous at best. There are many racially charged words in the US, the "N" word being the worst. The word "oriental" is similar to "colored people"--that is, it is an outdated term that harkens to the day when America was much more racist than it is today. In order for a word to be truly offensive, there has to be some history behind it. I doubt "farangs" in Thailand ever faced the sort of racism that African Americans, Asians, Native Americans, etc., had to deal with back in the day. Dual pricing? Visa regs? That's a joke, compared to lynchings, cross burnings, slavery, etc.

Quite right, B! A textbook self-regulating and extremely narrow Eurocentric vision can be corrected. Cult-like, it needs nurturing to reverse the dynamics of an all-encompassing European influence and contributions to world history mindset....

[Birdman]

Likely cognates of farang are found in many languages and many countries, stretching from the Middle East out to Oceania. It was almost certainly spread by Persian traders across mainland Asia many centuries ago. Such traders arrived in Siam by the 16th century, bringing along with their wares the word farangi, meaning Westerner or white man, from the Arabic word "faranji", and ultimately referring to the Germanic tribe the Franks, dating from the crusades, perhaps as early as the turn of the first millennium.

I will ask my wife about that

[Jingthing]

Right, while "Franks" likely influenced the Arabic word that became farang in Thailand, the colonial presence in S.E. Asia of more modern France happened much later historically. It's easy to see how people, including Thais, want to simplify this. Maybe Thais don't want to own up to being influenced by Arabs.

Of course farang can and often is used in a derogatory way (but of course not always). That is an undeniable fact. I call it an impolite word as is, not exactly a negative word in itself, because there are indeed more polite ways to express the same thought in Thai. If a Thai uses the impolite form to you, farang, while be uses the polite form of some other thought to someone he actually RESPECTS (which is of course expected) there is little doubt it is not a sign of respect to use that word, especially if directly to your face, or referring to you as a kind of IT or THING, such as bring the farang his farang Thai food. So yes I am saying a lot of us are being at the very least MILDLY DISSED on an everyday basis. The funny part is how many of us actually use the word about ourselves and don't recognize a diss when it's shoved in your face. I don't think we should use the word for that reason.

Do what you want, filter out reality if you want. I am not saying you should get bothered or react in a negative way to being dissed this way. It's not worth it, you'd only be harming yourself. Sure accept things as they are, this isn't a multicultural society and we don't blend in.

Edited July 31, 2010 by Jingthing

[Ulysses G.]

MILDLY DISSED

IF you are correct, mildly dissed is a lot different from the N word.

[zzaa09]

Likely cognates of farang are found in many languages and many countries, stretching from the Middle East out to Oceania. It was almost certainly spread by Persian traders across mainland Asia many centuries ago. Such traders arrived in Siam by the 16th century, bringing along with their wares the word farangi, meaning Westerner or white man, from the Arabic word "faranji", and ultimately referring to the Germanic tribe the Franks, dating from the crusades, perhaps as early as the turn of the first millennium.

Bingo. We have a winner. This material is not difficult to trace down. It's always baffled me as to the propensity of selected circles that insist that most every studious model within social science fields needs to be Euro-based and founded. As they will find, and perhaps be surprised, most of humankind's existence isn't.

[Jingthing]

MILDLY DISSED

IF you are correct, mildly dissed is a lot different from the N word.

I never compared it to the N word. I did compare it to the word Oriental as it is currently perceived in the USA, a mild diss. Of course context can make most any word toxic, and farang is a popular root for insults.

[Jingthing]

Likely cognates of farang are found in many languages and many countries, stretching from the Middle East out to Oceania. It was almost certainly spread by Persian traders across mainland Asia many centuries ago. Such traders arrived in Siam by the 16th century, bringing along with their wares the word farangi, meaning Westerner or white man, from the Arabic word "faranji", and ultimately referring to the Germanic tribe the Franks, dating from the crusades, perhaps as early as the turn of the first millennium.

Bingo. We have a winner. This material is not difficult to trace down. It's always baffled me as to the propensity of selected circles that insist that most every studious model within social science fields needs to be Euro-based and founded. As they will find, and perhaps be surprised, most of humankind's existence isn't.

This is the explanation that makes the most sense to me too. It's not really about Eurocentric or whatever, it's about the history and what actually happened.

[zzaa09]

Likely cognates of farang are found in many languages and many countries, stretching from the Middle East out to Oceania. It was almost certainly spread by Persian traders across mainland Asia many centuries ago. Such traders arrived in Siam by the 16th century, bringing along with their wares the word farangi, meaning Westerner or white man, from the Arabic word "faranji", and ultimately referring to the Germanic tribe the Franks, dating from the crusades, perhaps as early as the turn of the first millennium.

Bingo. We have a winner. This material is not difficult to trace down. It's always baffled me as to the propensity of selected circles that insist that most every studious model within social science fields needs to be Euro-based and founded. As they will find, and perhaps be surprised, most of humankind's existence isn't.

This is the explanation that makes the most sense to me too. It's not really about Eurocentric or whatever, it's about the history and what actually happened.

...as historiography and it's off-shoots are defined and interpreted by models of cultural condition, less reality. Do we {as a collective or individuals} find historic items through the eyes of others? Curious, we're not.

[Thakkar]

I came into this discussion with the opinion that the word is not derogatory. In the vast majority of situations I've witnessed it's use, I never got the sense that that there was any derogatory intent or derogatory feeling attached. My "sense of it" has weight because, growing up outside my country of birth and traveling widely, I've faced racism all my life and developed a pretty keen sense.

Still, reading this discussion has convinced me that many (for this purpose, I'm assuming TV posters are a representative sampling because, on this issue I'd like to err on the side of caution) on the receiving end are offended or mildly disturbed (dissed?) by the term. In that case, the proper thing for me to do is to avoid using it.

It's also occurred to me that if I continually use a catchall phrase to refer to a hugely diverse population coming from dozens of different countries, cultures, languages and mores, I risk constraining my own experiences. If I lump all Caucasians as 'Farang' in my speech, I'm lumping them together in my thoughts as well. From there it's just a small step to constant stereotyping. I would then impoverish my own experiences and miss out on the richness of which I could otherwise partake.

So, for me, this thread goes into the 'not ridiculous' column. Thank you all.

Now, there are many things people are offended by that they shouldn't be. I'd have no respite if I spent my time changing my behavior in all instances. But in this instance my sense (and yes, it works over the intertubes too!) tells me that quite a few genuinely good people who aren't prone to whining are truly offended by the term.

[473geo]

I came into this discussion with the opinion that the word is not derogatory. In the vast majority of situations I've witnessed it's use, I never got the sense that that there was any derogatory intent or derogatory feeling attached. My "sense of it" has weight because, growing up outside my country of birth and traveling widely, I've faced racism all my life and developed a pretty keen sense.

Still, reading this discussion has convinced me that many (for this purpose, I'm assuming TV posters are a representative sampling because, on this issue I'd like to err on the side of caution) on the receiving end are offended or mildly disturbed (dissed?) by the term. In that case, the proper thing for me to do is to avoid using it.

It's also occurred to me that if I continually use a catchall phrase to refer to a hugely diverse population coming from dozens of different countries, cultures, languages and mores, I risk constraining my own experiences. If I lump all Caucasians as 'Farang' in my speech, I'm lumping them together in my thoughts as well. From there it's just a small step to constant stereotyping. I would then impoverish my own experiences and miss out on the richness of which I could otherwise partake.

So, for me, this thread goes into the 'not ridiculous' column. Thank you all.

Now, there are many things people are offended by that they shouldn't be. I'd have no respite if I spent my time changing my behavior in all instances. But in this instance my sense (and yes, it works over the intertubes too!) tells me that quite a few genuinely good people who aren't prone to whining are truly offended by the term.

So when you wish to speak of the 'foreigner of European descent' across the street........given that you may not know his counry of origin........what are you going to call him?

Edited July 31, 2010 by 473geo

[SpoliaOpima]

Agreed, UG, I'm not always right, nobody is. But I am right about this Frenchie thing. The Arabic origin of the farang word (found in many countries including Ethiopia) predates the French in SE Asia.

But carry on believing it. BTW, at what age did you stop believing the tooth fairy?

Persian, not Arabic.

[Thakkar]

I came into this discussion with the opinion that the word is not derogatory. In the vast majority of situations I've witnessed it's use, I never got the sense that that there was any derogatory intent or derogatory feeling attached. My "sense of it" has weight because, growing up outside my country of birth and traveling widely, I've faced racism all my life and developed a pretty keen sense.

Still, reading this discussion has convinced me that many (for this purpose, I'm assuming TV posters are a representative sampling because, on this issue I'd like to err on the side of caution) on the receiving end are offended or mildly disturbed (dissed?) by the term. In that case, the proper thing for me to do is to avoid using it.

It's also occurred to me that if I continually use a catchall phrase to refer to a hugely diverse population coming from dozens of different countries, cultures, languages and mores, I risk constraining my own experiences. If I lump all Caucasians as 'Farang' in my speech, I'm lumping them together in my thoughts as well. From there it's just a small step to constant stereotyping. I would then impoverish my own experiences and miss out on the richness of which I could otherwise partake.

So, for me, this thread goes into the 'not ridiculous' column. Thank you all.

Now, there are many things people are offended by that they shouldn't be. I'd have no respite if I spent my time changing my behavior in all instances. But in this instance my sense (and yes, it works over the intertubes too!) tells me that quite a few genuinely good people who aren't prone to whining are truly offended by the term.

So when you wish to speak of the 'foreigner of European descent' across the street........given that you may not know his counry of origin........what are you going to call him?

"The guy in the singlet?"

Same as one would anywhere: describe something he's wearing. Sure, 'Farang' would be a convenient short form, and, like I said, I don't consider it derogatory. But since it appears quite a few people are offended by it, I think it's a good idea for me change my habit of using it.