The Music Is Over

[Pib]

The problem is, that Thailand as a whole is not UNITED!! pockets of idiots all over the place, working for personal gain, immigration against Police, Police against Army,Army against politicians, politicians against their people and the people against us, we should teach them a lesson and just piss off for a while, taking our money with us!!!!

Hmmm, this is too touchy for me, maybe i shouldn't comment ....

Excluding farang big businesses/factories, the amount of money the average Joe farang adds to the Thai economy is a drop in the bucket when you consider all of Thailand/the entire GDP/the entire 68 million Thai population. Even tourism with the millions upon millions of tourists visiting Thailand each year only accounts for approx 6% of the country's GDP. While some businesses would miss the average farang money, as mentioned on a country-wide basis we add just a drop to the Thailand GDP bucket.

[somtampet]

ya this is informative but i'm not sure if it is correct outside Chang Mai.

i have heard from many sources that volunteer work does not violate the Alien Work Act.

you cannot do work that a Thai can get paid for.

Thai's don't do volunteer work.

what nonsense

[Gers1873]

Thai racism at work again or just the Thai penchant for wanting something for nothing??

Lets hit the farang musician / singer for getting up in a bar for a bit of a jam session. They have lots of money so we can exploit them.

Meanwhile there are 'Flip' cover bands playing in bars over Thailand for money.

By all means protect the local Thai music scene but not through more punitive legislation designed to punish tourists. Isnt the tourist industry in enough trouble??

[AlanL1275]

Oh Crap,

No more Karaoke for me

[brianb1944]

The word "artist" is thrown around far too casually in the article. What is being talked about are "performing artists" (to use the term very loosely) who are doing little more than hacking their way through bad covers of somebody else's songs. Virtually none of them will be people of unique talent losing the opportunity to compose and refine original compositions of any quality.

Edit for spelling.

So not being virtuosos of great renown makes it ok for them to be denied the pleasure of sharing their talents (however limited) with like minded musicians and apprteciative audiences.?? How positively pompous

[Jirapa]

ya this is informative but i'm not sure if it is correct outside Chang Mai.

i have heard from many sources that volunteer work does not violate the Alien Work Act.

you cannot do work that a Thai can get paid for.

Thai's don't do volunteer work.

what nonsense

Don't shout! and yes some do.

[brianb1944]

ya this is informative but i'm not sure if it is correct outside Chang Mai.

i have heard from many sources that volunteer work does not violate the Alien Work Act.

you cannot do work that a Thai can get paid for.

Thai's don't do volunteer work.

what nonsense

Don't shout! and yes some do.

As an affected musician who has taken legal advice, I can assure you that volunteer work does require a work permit.

[spidermike007]

All this can be called, is weak, fearful, superstitious, soft, lacking in courage, and non-visionary to the extreme degree. Just another example of a country that continues to take steps backwards. I understand enforcing work permits. But, do these tiny minded "men" who are enforcing these rules stop to think of how little money is involved. I could understand it is a famous star comes here and plays an arena, without the requisite permits. But, we are talking about guys who play for fun, and for passion. It is doing nothing but enhancing the super anemic local cultural scene. Is this yet another example of xenophobia manifesting itself? There are incredibly small men, who are out there enforcing these arcane, silly, protectionist laws (more appropriately called women, though I would not want to put women down in this fashion). These tiny people are lacking heart, lacking guts, lacking wisdom, and generally lacking in most areas of life. If they had a real life, they would not be denying peoples these simple pleasures. So, I say to these tiny men, get a life! Leave the creative souls alone, and start contributing something real and tangible to Thai society.

[Gers1873]

This may sound arrogant,but show me a Thai musician, who can do a better job than me!!! very hard to find my friends, not only are we artists,we are specialized entertainers,making people feel great and that's the name of the game,people feel great in a place ,they come back!

Obviously a horn-blower --- keep tooting. Most entertaining.

[lanna2011]

1. Definition

“Alien” means a naturalperson who is not of Thai nationality; “ Work ”means to engage in work by

exerting energy or usingknowledge whether or not in consideration of wages or other benefits.

This is the law - includes volunteer and online 'work' - and Tourist Police - did you read that? and Citylife could be fined 100,000 per musician for helping Japan? it's madness

[blabla1]

The problem is, that Thailand as a whole is not UNITED!! pockets of idiots all over the place, working for personal gain, immigration against Police, Police against Army,Army against politicians, politicians against their people and the people against us, we should teach them a lesson and just piss off for a while, taking our money with us!!!!

Hmmm, this is too touchy for me, maybe i shouldn't comment ....

Excluding farang big businesses/factories, the amount of money the average Joe farang adds to the Thai economy is a drop in the bucket when you consider all of Thailand/the entire GDP/the entire 68 million Thai population. Even tourism with the millions upon millions of tourists visiting Thailand each year only accounts for approx 6% of the country's GDP. While some businesses would miss the average farang money, as mentioned on a country-wide basis we add just a drop to the Thailand GDP bucket.

Thanks i realize this, but you look at the percentage of people working and having an income from farrangs/tourists, then you would agree that if we were not here, 40% of the population would be effected, who are directly and indirectly involved with tourists/farangs.

[brianb1944]

A lot of <deleted> written here by posters.

If a Thai musician, or sportsperson, comes to UK or USA to do their thing, they need a performers or sporting visa. No difference here.

I knock Thailand a lot, but I don't see why people who can strum a guitar, or play the piano, should get off with financing their stay here by earning a few baht without the proper permissions and permits.

I totally agree, as does Immigration, however many of us are comfortably off, and play merely because we enjoy performing, and would not be allowed to if patrons did not enjoy listening (or not). The current situation is that even very casual jamming will result in arrest as it appears one is going to have to prove ones innocence in court with a great deal of stress and at significant expense.

[blabla1]

Yes, you can do that when you are good in your profession and i am!

This may sound arrogant,but show me a Thai musician, who can do a better job than me!!! very hard to find my friends, not only are we artists,we are specialized entertainers,making people feel great and that's the name of the game,people feel great in a place ,they come back!

Obviously a horn-blower --- keep tooting. Most entertaining.

[Gers1873]

1. Definition

"Alien" means a naturalperson who is not of Thai nationality; " Work "means to engage in work by

exerting energy or usingknowledge whether or not in consideration of wages or other benefits.

This is the law - includes volunteer and online 'work' - and Tourist Police - did you read that? and Citylife could be fined 100,000 per musician for helping Japan? it's madness

Thanks for that update which puts my mind at rest. Being an 'unnatural person' I guess I can do anything I please.

[alexakap]

Actually, a lot of the CM pubs dont pay the artists. Is some of the aforementioned spots, people get up and jam because they enjoy playing music and having a social venue to do so. The ones who make a good income are the owners of the pubs

Yo, let's raid karaoke bars too! Plenty of rich Japs over there, "working w/o proper documents".

[captainhornblower]

After the Tsunami, in early 2005, the Ministry of Labour announced that all foreign volunteers helping in the clear up needed to obtain work permits.

I remember thinking at the time how farcical it was but then again this is Thailand...........................

[brianb1944]

This may sound arrogant,but show me a Thai musician, who can do a better job than me!!! very hard to find my friends, not only are we artists,we are specialized entertainers,making people feel great and that's the name of the game,people feel great in a place ,they come back!

Obviously a horn-blower --- keep tooting. Most entertaining.

Yup it certainly sounds arrogant, there are many fine local musicians in Chiang Mai, however, their talents may not be readily appreciated by farang, and, their interpretation of western songs is maybe a little different, and not to Farang taste.

[blabla1]

YES and this is my point, they are good at what they do ,we are good at what we do, have a shared night maybe, great Thais playing Thai songs and farangs playing ,farang songs,every body happy Mr...

This may sound arrogant,but show me a Thai musician, who can do a better job than me!!! very hard to find my friends, not only are we artists,we are specialized entertainers,making people feel great and that's the name of the game,people feel great in a place ,they come back!

Obviously a horn-blower --- keep tooting. Most entertaining.

Yup it certainly sounds arrogant, there are many fine local musicians in Chiang Mai, however, their talents may not be readily appreciated by farang, and, their interpretation of western songs is maybe a little different, and not to Farang taste.

[richieudon]

you think a single member of the entire cast of Hangover II had a work permit?

Yes!! All of them in fact.

I know for sure for film makers and entertainers everybody needs a work permit.

My buddy is a tour manager for a big performer and he shudders at the paperwork and bureaucracy whenever the perform in Bangkok.

I used to DJ in Thailand, never had a work permit but there would be raids from time to time and 'collections' made...

[Sao Jiang Mai]

Just to clarify the points being made about jamming, our young intern Jane wrote: Tourists cannot reasonably be expected to understand that they may be caught up by the police should they stand up on stage to play a song. And in fact, there is nothing illegal about that act, since they tend to be one-off occurrences.

Basically, there is nothing illegal about jamming. And if a tourist or expat is caught up in the net of arrest they will most likely get off pretty much immediately (once they get a lawyer, we didn't print this but the Labour Department guy said there is not a judge in the land who would convice someone on that)...but as we all know, it is still a terrifying experience, and god knows what goes down at the police station to pressure them to pay, etc.

[blabla1]

I was in Pai the other night and two farangs were playing at a restaurant, she sang Thai songs as well, maybe that should be illegal??

[Rick1]

DJ Norman Jay MBE was pulled off the decks and threatened with arrest last week in Stereo Lab, Phuket.

Its all about 'tea money'.... always

In the name of Buddha! We spend all our money here so please give us our music with the least amount of complications possible......pleazzze!!!! Same rule applies to D-Jays who might only be playing 1 night. I know it's not just Thailand as you can't work in most countries without a work permit but bars with good ferrang music pull in crowds of Thais and Tourists who spend, spend, spend so the pros outweigh the cons. They'll be banning alcohol next! Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. It's just a few greedy officials and police with no interest in Thailand's economy, only what they can make out of a minor infringement today.

Edited June 2, 2011 by Rick1

[scorpio]

the government of thailand had better get a grip and wise up, foreighners have poured money into this country for years and still do, if this kind of behaviour against us continues we will find cambodia a more suitable place as do a lot of people and ex pats allready, these laws are just a slap on the face for us foreigners and it makes me think that thai people dont really want us here, or do not really even like us , they have stopped foreigners getting religious tattoo,s allready which is maybe fair enough but why not stop thai people getting religious tattoo,s ? double pricing against foreigners ? i could go on and on

Edited June 2, 2011 by scorpio

[arthurwait]

hahahahaha, you are funny, how the hell can you support yourself on what the Thai's pay,that 's why we play for free, we retire and play golf, while others retire and play music,this is the point,not earning money!!

A lot of <deleted> written here by posters.

If a Thai musician, or sportsperson, comes to UK or USA to do their thing, they need a performers or sporting visa. No difference here.

I knock Thailand a lot, but I don't see why people who can strum a guitar, or play the piano, should get off with financing their stay here by earning a few baht without the proper permissions and permits.

Aren't the bars mainly owned by Farangs ?

How do the police know if you are or aren't earning money. People illegally working don't tend to declare if they are getting paid.

[brianb1944]

The WHOLE thing is a complete and utter mess with nobody seemingly knowing what's allowed and legal and what is taboo and may or may not be illegal.

There is too much ambiguity here with different departments imposing their own interpretation of matters according to how they see it!!! Why on earth can't they decide on and implement rules and regulations that are clear cut and precise and not so open to personal interpretation which is only going to cause complete confusion and concerns for everyone about doing something unwittingly just in case they are arrested for it.

People may not agree with these laws but it lessens the risk of falling fail of them if they understand what they are all about.

That is the crux of the problem, the article indicates that a farang peforming, whether legally or illegally, will be arrested, subject to bail, court costs etc, and may prove his innocence at enormous expense. Basically, guiilty until proven innocent.

[dunkin2012]

tell me if these guys offer monthly fixed payment to these scumbags - will there still be the raid? .......

would say "nope"!!!!!!

Edited June 2, 2011 by dunkin2012

[brianb1944]

I was in Pai the other night and two farangs were playing at a restaurant, she sang Thai songs as well, maybe that should be illegal??

It almost certainly was, but the immigration police dont go that far afield. I have jammed in Be Bop club several times over the years.

[Jirapa]

This may sound arrogant,but show me a Thai musician, who can do a better job than me!!! very hard to find my friends, not only are we artists,we are specialized entertainers,making people feel great and that's the name of the game,people feel great in a place ,they come back!

Obviously a horn-blower --- keep tooting. Most entertaining.

That's a bit harsh. I don't play music but I know good music when I hear it and ferrang are better musicians, singers, etc... I witnessed that in Bangkok last weekend but it's not something I didn't know. You'll never find an Aretha Franklin nor James Brown in Thailand to name but 2 masters of their art. I mean...... seriously have you seen Academy Fantasia. Even the likes of Carabou and his band who are at the top of the Thai rock game don't even come close to your average busker on the streets of London let alone the likes of The Who. I'm not coating off Thai music as I like some of it but the level of talent doesn't come close. That said I never moved here for the Amazing music!

[dekestone]

A lot of <deleted> written here by posters.

If a Thai musician, or sportsperson, comes to UK or USA to do their thing, they need a performers or sporting visa. No difference here.

I knock Thailand a lot, but I don't see why people who can strum a guitar, or play the piano, should get off with financing their stay here by earning a few baht without the proper permissions and permits.

Depends. There are open mic nights in bars all over my home town Chicago, and I assume many hundreds (thousands?) of other cities. Anybody can get up and play but of course they don't get paid. If a foreign musician is getting paid yes, agreed, he has to have the proper paperwork. But shutting down open mic nights where no one gets paid is a bit over the top. But then, I don't make the rules.

Edited June 2, 2011 by dekestone

[Jirapa]

DJ Norman Jay MBE was pulled off the decks and threatened with arrest last week in Stereo Lab, Phuket.

Its all about 'tea money'.... always

In the name of Buddha! We spend all our money here so please give us our music with the least amount of complications possible......pleazzze!!!! Same rule applies to D-Jays who might only be playing 1 night. I know it's not just Thailand as you can't work in most countries without a work permit but bars with good ferrang music pull in crowds of Thais and Tourists who spend, spend, spend so the pros outweigh the cons. They'll be banning alcohol next! Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. It's just a few greedy officials and police with no interest in Thailand's economy, only what they can make out of a minor infringement today.

Is that you Richard Udon?