Thailand's Democrats Seek Ban On Thaksin Party

[rubl]

It appears that some people have had a change of hearts. In another thread the very same people defending the move by the Democrats to dispute the decision of a majority of the Thai electorate were up in arms over some people's right to bring a civil suit when false allegations were made.

Yes, the Democrats can bring any action they can substantiate. It is part of the civil process of the peaceful resolution of disputes. it is up to an independent judiciary to decide the merits of the case. Is the judiciary independent enough to rule in an unbiased manner? However, it is obvious to anyone that understands, that the electorate spoke and that the Democrats are engaged in a last gasp to hold onto power. The Democrats have no mandate to govern. The party was repudiated at the polls. All that this does is further the perception of the voters that abandoned the Democrats ,that the Democrats will not respect the election results.

Until the decision is rendered, the PTP has a legal mandate to rule. If the PTP is politically savy they will respond head on to the harassment of the Democrats and will let loose a volley of countersuits and start doing everything legally possible to make the Democrats understand that. the people have spoken. In the meantime, the Democrats have undermined the stability of the nation and struck a blow against the nation. If people did not understand why there are such heated passions from PTP supporters, perhaps they will get it now. The Democrats are anti democratic and sore losers.

Why does

"Yes, the Democrats can bring any action they can substantiate. It is part of the civil process of the peaceful resolution of disputes."

seem to be contradicted by

"the Democrats have undermined the stability of the nation and struck a blow against the nation"

Part of a civil process undermines stability and strike a blow against the nation?

[jdinasia]

It appears that some people have had a change of hearts. In another thread the very same people defending the move by the Democrats to dispute the decision of a majority of the Thai electorate were up in arms over some people's right to bring a civil suit when false allegations were made.

Yes, the Democrats can bring any action they can substantiate. It is part of the civil process of the peaceful resolution of disputes. it is up to an independent judiciary to decide the merits of the case. Is the judiciary independent enough to rule in an unbiased manner? However, it is obvious to anyone that understands, that the electorate spoke and that the Democrats are engaged in a last gasp to hold onto power. The Democrats have no mandate to govern. The party was repudiated at the polls. All that this does is further the perception of the voters that abandoned the Democrats ,that the Democrats will not respect the election results.

Until the decision is rendered, the PTP has a legal mandate to rule. If the PTP is politically savy they will respond head on to the harassment of the Democrats and will let loose a volley of countersuits and start doing everything legally possible to make the Democrats understand that. the people have spoken. In the meantime, the Democrats have undermined the stability of the nation and struck a blow against the nation. If people did not understand why there are such heated passions from PTP supporters, perhaps they will get it now. The Democrats are anti democratic and sore losers.

HUH?

The Dems won't be "holding on to power" with this. They will weaken the governing coalition but they most likely won't be able to cobble together any coalition to defeat whatever Thaksin proxy party comes next (If this moves forwards --- I think it might not and that the courts might rule against Thaksin again in a criminal case and leave PTP alone --- but that is simply a guess)

Strange that you say that it is the Dems that have hurt the nation (if the case against PTP bears out it will be obvious that Thaksin hurt the nation yet again!) Didn't you start with saying the Dems can bring any action they can substantiate? If they can substantiate it then isn't it actually GOOD for democracy?

The fear isn't that PTP will launch a "volley of countersuits and start doing anything legally possible..." The fear is that they will let loose of the reins they have on their street politik gang of thugs.

[rixalex]

It appears that some people have had a change of hearts. In another thread the very same people defending the move by the Democrats to dispute the decision of a majority of the Thai electorate were up in arms over some people's right to bring a civil suit when false allegations were made.

Yes, the Democrats can bring any action they can substantiate. It is part of the civil process of the peaceful resolution of disputes. it is up to an independent judiciary to decide the merits of the case. Is the judiciary independent enough to rule in an unbiased manner? However, it is obvious to anyone that understands, that the electorate spoke and that the Democrats are engaged in a last gasp to hold onto power. The Democrats have no mandate to govern. The party was repudiated at the polls. All that this does is further the perception of the voters that abandoned the Democrats ,that the Democrats will not respect the election results.

Until the decision is rendered, the PTP has a legal mandate to rule. If the PTP is politically savy they will respond head on to the harassment of the Democrats and will let loose a volley of countersuits and start doing everything legally possible to make the Democrats understand that. the people have spoken. In the meantime, the Democrats have undermined the stability of the nation and struck a blow against the nation. If people did not understand why there are such heated passions from PTP supporters, perhaps they will get it now. The Democrats are anti democratic and sore losers.

You say PTP has to make the Dems understand that the people have spoken. What has the people speaking got to do with electoral laws possibly having been broken?

Do you accept the possibility that electoral laws might have been broken by the PTP? If they have, what should be done? Swept under the carpet? Same goes for any laws broken by the Dems. Forget about it? In the past?

[davidkia]

advanced member we all can see which side your coming from , why di you really wont to give the party another go , they lost no matter what , and having people like you on yr soap box don't help Thailand unless you are one of the rich !

[SeanMoran]

I would be upset too, if I was a hi-so Bangkokian with a nice big house and a nice big car and a pretty wife and a nice big masters' degree hanging on my office wall, and yet some Issan peasant who works at the 711 down on main street in Nowhereburi can have precisely the same sway with a vote in an election as I can! It doesn't fit with my karmic understandings, this democracy thing. I think we should blockade the airport!

...

On second thoughts, we did that already. Hiow about we blockade McDonalds around the country, and then they'll all get hungry and vote for us!

[jdinasia]

advanced member we all can see which side your coming from , why di you really wont to give the party another go , they lost no matter what , and having people like you on yr soap box don't help Thailand unless you are one of the rich !

Exactly who are you talking to?

[DumFarang]

Fact is it appeared to honor the rule of law when the PTP won a lot of seats, fair enough. And now it appears to also follow the rule of law that the Dems get to sue for election fraud. What's the problem either way?

[Crushdepth]

It appears that some people have had a change of hearts. In another thread the very same people defending the move by the Democrats to dispute the decision of a majority of the Thai electorate were up in arms over some people's right to bring a civil suit when false allegations were made.

Yes, the Democrats can bring any action they can substantiate. It is part of the civil process of the peaceful resolution of disputes. it is up to an independent judiciary to decide the merits of the case. Is the judiciary independent enough to rule in an unbiased manner? However, it is obvious to anyone that understands, that the electorate spoke and that the Democrats are engaged in a last gasp to hold onto power. The Democrats have no mandate to govern. The party was repudiated at the polls. All that this does is further the perception of the voters that abandoned the Democrats ,that the Democrats will not respect the election results.

Until the decision is rendered, the PTP has a legal mandate to rule. If the PTP is politically savy they will respond head on to the harassment of the Democrats and will let loose a volley of countersuits and start doing everything legally possible to make the Democrats understand that. the people have spoken. In the meantime, the Democrats have undermined the stability of the nation and struck a blow against the nation. If people did not understand why there are such heated passions from PTP supporters, perhaps they will get it now. The Democrats are anti democratic and sore losers.

"The people" have spoken, but if PTP has committed electoral fraud - for the THIRD time in the row - they go in the can and they have nobody to blame but themselves. Still struggling with this simple concept? Kim Jong Il does pretty well in the polls too but I have a slightly wider view of democracy than the vote count.

[kropotkin]

advanced member we all can see which side your coming from , why di you really wont to give the party another go , they lost no matter what , and having people like you on yr soap box don't help Thailand unless you are one of the rich !

You talking to me?

[Sunderland]

At last something that is not a smokescreen for truth. The only true hub that Thailand can rightfully claim as being authentic is being the true hub of political bullshit.

[DumFarang]

This seems predictable from the democrats and it won't work for many reasons not least because the international community can see Pheu Thai has a huge mandate. The Americans for one would not be at all happy and the military know that. If they did try to cheat Pheu Thai out of its huge victory there would probably be civil war. I am interested to see how anyone can support this pathetic bad loser/ cant accept democracy attitude from the democrat party.I hope Abhisit supporters see him for the dishonest cheat that he is proving to be.

Hmmmmmm

Let's see .... Americans won't care about a party that violates electoral law (any party) being disbanded. America certainly won't care about a party that got less than 50% of the vote being knocked about for violating election laws. Enforcing electoral law isn't "cheating". I doubt Abhisit made this call since he stepped down from party leadership ....

I don't know that these charges will stick BUT Thaksin himself can be charged and sentenced in criminal court for his interference.

IF PTP gets knocked down for this the next Thaksin proxy party should still have enough votes in Parliament to stay in office and if they don't like the margin they can call early elections.

Who dragged the U.S. into this and why? Completely irrelevant.

[jdinasia]

This seems predictable from the democrats and it won't work for many reasons not least because the international community can see Pheu Thai has a huge mandate. The Americans for one would not be at all happy and the military know that. If they did try to cheat Pheu Thai out of its huge victory there would probably be civil war. I am interested to see how anyone can support this pathetic bad loser/ cant accept democracy attitude from the democrat party.I hope Abhisit supporters see him for the dishonest cheat that he is proving to be.

Hmmmmmm

Let's see .... Americans won't care about a party that violates electoral law (any party) being disbanded. America certainly won't care about a party that got less than 50% of the vote being knocked about for violating election laws. Enforcing electoral law isn't "cheating". I doubt Abhisit made this call since he stepped down from party leadership ....

I don't know that these charges will stick BUT Thaksin himself can be charged and sentenced in criminal court for his interference.

IF PTP gets knocked down for this the next Thaksin proxy party should still have enough votes in Parliament to stay in office and if they don't like the margin they can call early elections.

Who dragged the U.S. into this and why? Completely irrelevant.

See the post I quoted ... and yes I agree .. in this case (courts not coup) they are 100% irrelevant !

[SeanMoran]

The problem is, that this has been going on for almost five years now. Why not just be a good loser and let Thailand get back to normal life again, without all these military coups and sleights on democracy?

Then again, I guess military coups and sleights on democracy are normal life in Thailand. Bring on the sanuk, Abhisit.

[Jingthing]

The problem is, that this has been going on for almost five years now. Why not just be a good loser and let Thailand get back to normal life again, without all these military coups and sleights on democracy?

Then again, I guess military coups and sleights on democracy are normal life in Thailand. Bring on the sanuk, Abhisit.

Lots of answers to your question. I'll take a stab. Perhaps the anti-Thaksin forces don't believe Thaksin when he says he is all about reconciliation and not about revenge? What rational reason can you come up with why they SHOULD believe him (based on track record)?

Edited July 8, 2011 by Jingthing

[DumFarang]

It appears that some people have had a change of hearts. In another thread the very same people defending the move by the Democrats to dispute the decision of a majority of the Thai electorate were up in arms over some people's right to bring a civil suit when false allegations were made.

Yes, the Democrats can bring any action they can substantiate. It is part of the civil process of the peaceful resolution of disputes. it is up to an independent judiciary to decide the merits of the case. Is the judiciary independent enough to rule in an unbiased manner? However, it is obvious to anyone that understands, that the electorate spoke and that the Democrats are engaged in a last gasp to hold onto power. The Democrats have no mandate to govern. The party was repudiated at the polls. All that this does is further the perception of the voters that abandoned the Democrats ,that the Democrats will not respect the election results.

Until the decision is rendered, the PTP has a legal mandate to rule. If the PTP is politically savy they will respond head on to the harassment of the Democrats and will let loose a volley of countersuits and start doing everything legally possible to make the Democrats understand that. the people have spoken. In the meantime, the Democrats have undermined the stability of the nation and struck a blow against the nation. If people did not understand why there are such heated passions from PTP supporters, perhaps they will get it now. The Democrats are anti democratic and sore losers.

Soooo....if the PTP committed some type of electoral fraud it should be ignored b/c they received a majority of votes? Wow. I didn't realize simply falling into the majority allowed such a wide berth for bending the rules/laws. Yay for democracy!

[Crushdepth]

The problem is, that this has been going on for almost five years now. Why not just be a good loser and let Thailand get back to normal life again, without all these military coups and sleights on democracy?

Then again, I guess military coups and sleights on democracy are normal life in Thailand. Bring on the sanuk, Abhisit.

Why not stop cheating elections? It's not difficult.

[DumFarang]

Everyone I know in Thailand who doesn't work for the military or in Maptaphut have been waiting a very long time for this last election, and not to get Thaksin back, but to get Abhisit out.

I've heard the same story in BKK too. People who originally supported the coup voted for Thaksin last month because they'd lost faith in AW.

Conclusion: Dems need to stop focussing on TS and start repairing their own house.

Agreed, but how do you stop focusing on a greedy tycoon who won't go away?

[SeanMoran]

Lots of answers to your question. I'll take a stab. Perhaps the anti-Thaksin forces don't believe Thaksin when he says he is all about reconciliation and not about revenge? What rational reason can you come up with why they SHOULD believe him (based on track record)?

Good to catch up with you again after all this time, Jing'. I hope you've been doing well since we last had a chat.

What's this got to do with Thaksin? Everyone has the right to listen to their big brother or sister, no matter who they are. Maybe Thaksin is lucky now, to have a chance to run the Kingdom by proxy, but that's just good luck, because most of Thailand did not vote for Thaksin back, (or did they? That's their decision). The majority of Thais voted for Yingluck by default, because they wanted to get rid of the usurper.

---o0o---

My words. My opinion. I am not here to try to put words in the mouths of Thai citizens, but just based on the discussions I have enjoyed over the past two years with people born in Thailand.

Edited July 8, 2011 by SeanMoran

[Jingthing]

Also, if they got into power with this alleged illegal scheme (banned politicians being involved) what does that tell you about how they will behave when they have established their power more securely? The anti-Thaksin forces are with all rationality very concerned about this. It was OK for the red street mobs to question the legitimacy of Abhisit's power, but now the other side doesn't have a similar right to question the legitimacy of the PTP?

[Lite Beer]

Democrats to seek disbandment of Pheu Thai

BANGKOK, 8 July 2011 (NNT) – The Democrat Party’s legal team is preparing to ask the Election Commission (EC) to dissolve the Pheu Thai Party due to the involvement of its politically-banned members in the recent election campaign

According to member of the Democrat legal team Wirat Kalayasiri, a letter will soon be lodged with the EC to call for the Pheu Thai Party’s dissolution after some of the 111 members of the now-defunct Thai Rak Thai Party who are still under a five-year ban from politics participated in Pheu Thai’s campaign activities and policy-making process.

Among those banned politicians are former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra and former Acting Thai Rak Thai leader Jaturon Chaisang, who are said to have breached the electoral law by handpicking Pheu Thai MP candidates for the recent election and coming up with policies under the slogan ‘Thaksin thinks; Pheu Thai does’.

Therefore, Mr Wirat urged the EC to exercise its authority in the deliberation of the issue. If Pheu Thai was found guilty, he said the party could be disbanded while Mr Thaksin and Mr Jaturon could face prohibition from politics for five more years.

Furthermore, the Democrat legal team member reminded the EC to promptly consider the National Anti-Corruption Network’s complaint submitted on 6 June against the eligibility of several Pheu Thai MP candidates. Those at risk of being disqualified are mostly red-shirt core leaders, such as Mr Jatuporn Prompan, Mr Natthawut Saikua, MD Weng Tojirakarn, Mr Wiphuthalaeng Pattanaphumthai, Mr Payap Panket and Mr Korkaew Pikulthong.

-- NNT 2011-07-08

[Jingthing]

Lots of answers to your question. I'll take a stab. Perhaps the anti-Thaksin forces don't believe Thaksin when he says he is all about reconciliation and not about revenge? What rational reason can you come up with why they SHOULD believe him (based on track record)?

Good to catch up with you again after all this time, Jing'. I hope you've been doing well since we last had a chat.

What's this got to do with Thaksin? Everyone has the right to listen to their big brother or sister, no matter who they are. Maybe Thaksin is lucky now, to have a chance to run the Kingdom by proxy, but that's just good luck, because most of Thailand did not vote for Thaksin back, (or did they? That's their decision). The majority of Thais voted for Yingluck by default, because they wanted to get rid of the usurper.

Now you're being silly! Thaksin Thinks, PTP acts. The PTP slogan. No use talking to someone who isn't accepting the basic facts about this.

Next ...

[charmonman]

Legitimate? If the judiciary were neutral, which they are not (yet), how could they defend dissolving the party with such a mandate from the people? Parliament is the law, and the people have chosen a new parliament haven't they?

No, the constitution is the law. If you are trying to say that the PT should not be subject to the constitution because a lot of people voted for them, then that would be called mob rule I think.

That being said, I can't believe the Democrats are doing this again. They may be justified in their complaint, but it seems the best thing for them to do at this point would be to grin and bear it and let the PT hang themselves with their own rope.

[Jingthing]

That being said, I can't believe the Democrats are doing this again. They may be justified in their complaint, but it seems the best thing for them to do at this point would be to grin and bear it and let the PT hang themselves with their own rope.

Another poster said that. It may be the best plan, but nobody can possibly know that or predict the future given these two scenarios. The anti-Thaksin forces fear Thaksin, so at least admit the theoretical possibility that allowing Thaksin to totally consolidate his power could actually be worse for the country in the long run than any blowback from these current democrat party tactics.

Edited July 8, 2011 by Jingthing

[SeanMoran]

Now you're being silly! Thaksin Thinks, PTP acts. The PTP slogan. No use talking to someone who isn't accepting the basic facts about this.

Next ...

Yeah, I am being silly. Another day goes by in Thailand. Another election, another coup, another government. Why would anyone want to be in Australia and miss out on all the fun?

---o0o---

Another failed attempt at democracy is on the way ... again. Good news is the AUD might break the 34 THB milestone before the week is out. I can't complain.

Edited July 8, 2011 by SeanMoran

[Jingthing]

By the way..... you saying "next" or "enough said" does not help your course.

That's the way it is was taken, sorry.

Edited July 8, 2011 by Jingthing

[kropotkin]

Legitimate? If the judiciary were neutral, which they are not (yet), how could they defend dissolving the party with such a mandate from the people? Parliament is the law, and the people have chosen a new parliament haven't they?

No, the constitution is the law. If you are trying to say that the PT should not be subject to the constitution because a lot of people voted for them, then that would be called mob rule I think.

That being said, I can't believe the Democrats are doing this again. They may be justified in their complaint, but it seems the best thing for them to do at this point would be to grin and bear it and let the PT hang themselves with their own rope.

WARNING: do not post balanced posts.

You might end up like me, I was called an extremist for calling reds and yellows extremists.

The carmine gemmish poster who said this, thought i should not mention red and yellow in the same frase, because one color - i forget which one - was far worse then the other one.....

[sabye]

if you check the final results PTP did not get a majority of the votes cast. The got a majority of the seats. PTP only won 48.41% (15,744,190 votes of the 32,534,504 eligible votes cast). I realize that they won the seats but did they win them in a fair and legal manner. If not then they should lose those seats and if banned politicians participated in the election and the law says that the party can be banned or dissolved for doing so then it should be done. If you can't do the time don't do the crime. It is time that we had politicians that lead the country by example not by "do as I say not as I do". Thailand is laughed at by the rest of the world as a third world banana republic because of these politicians. It is time that the Thai people woke up. I agreed that the DEMS are run by big business and rich people and they don't seem to be in touch worth the common people but putting a party into power that doesn't seem to think the laws of the land applies to them is just asking for more graft, corruption and BS.

[SeanMoran]

... it seems the best thing for them to do at this point would be to grin and bear it and let the PT hang themselves with their own rope.

That is the way that the Australian federal opposition has been doing it for the past year, and it seems to be working a treat. Just shutup and give the government all the rope it asks for, and see what they do with it. Excellent political tactics if you have a little patience. Great idea.

[Jingthing]

... it seems the best thing for them to do at this point would be to grin and bear it and let the PT hang themselves with their own rope.

That is the way that the Australian federal opposition has been doing it for the past year, and it seems to be working a treat. Just shutup and give the government all the rope it asks for, and see what they do with it. Excellent political tactics if you have a little patience. Great idea.

You can't compare Oz politics with Thai politics. You don't have coups there or red revolutionary mobs closing down your capital, throwing blood on your PM's private home, etc.

[Max4243]

Democrat & leaders seems to have very short memory. They had forgotten how they got into power by wooing the banned politician Newin and others with flowers to form the government. No one seems to bothered to complain to EC for dissolution of the parties concerned. Now the Democrat lost in this election and instead of being a positive opposition and respecting the people's decision, they became sour grapes and hope for a second term in office.

Grabbing power for the second time through dissolution of other political party would be tough this time and there are consequences. Obviously Democrat is aiming for this, but lets hope the EC could rule fairly for the sake of the country and not getting rid of PTP on technicalities.