'Bringing The Good Guy Back' - Supporters Plan Birthday Bash For Thaksin

[ozzieman05]

I can't believe any country would ever honor a liar, cheater, and thief with a likeness in a classroom to serve as a role model to children as someone pointed out. Unless of course said would be despot ordered it so, or else.

Better read your history books

Germany early 1940"s

and look what happened then ?????

[Jingthing]

Apparently Thaksin had his image inserted into a Thai national anthem video montage during his last regime. A foretaste of more to come, I reckon.

Nobody is saying coups are good or desirable, but please don't pretend Thaksin didn't do certain things that provoked the attention of the coup makers.

Now he is back. Good chance this is a be careful what you wish for moment for many of his supporters.

Edited July 26, 2011 by Jingthing

[ozzieman05]

I can't believe any country would ever honor a liar, cheater, and thief with a likeness in a classroom to serve as a role model to children as someone pointed out. Unless of course said would be despot ordered it so, or else.

Better read your history books

Germany early 1940"s

and look what happened then ?????

[Colin Yai]

Oh boy, this thread's going to be fun! How the Thaksin haters will be seething!

(..and saying it will never happen, just like the election result. )

there will be at least 2500 families who were victims of this 'good guy' and his crackdown on dealers, who will not be celebrating! 1400 killed were innocent of any drug dealing.

Yeah aroya very true, unfortunately many only remember his 30 baht health scheme rather than focusing on he was the sole orchestrator of mass murder of many Innocent people.

[Colin Yai]

You've made your point; truths and facts that only stretch as far as a heretofore non-investigation into the questionable intentions by questionable people who judged him; furthermore, the same people who should be candidates for your own standards of judgment - and who you summarily exclude in your crusade.

You are accusing a Thai citizen of being a massive human rights abuser, when in fact he has no accusations being brought against him by any international court. Only complaints. You are not being very righteous yourself.

Regrettably I cannot hear you for the cacophony of noise from your fellow lynch men. I've abused people's rights myself. Grant me the power, and I am certain I would amplify my mistakes, just like any other leader throughout history, were I in that position. Why do you ignore the pebbles and shout at the mountains? God help you people if Thaksin ever gets a pardon in any capacity, and especially a particular one. I guess by guilt of admission, I have mentally pardoned this human being for doing something that dims in light of the good he has done. It's acceptable to engage me in battle, but not so in the other event. Your ignorance and stiff-necked attitude over the matter and towards me will be illustrated in the event of that case. You'll have to simmer and steam without being able to open your mouths one iota.That will be interesting to follow the threads at that time, should it occur.

Wow. Somebody seems to have drunk the koolaid. Like the entire pitcher. I think you should do some more research on this. And take the blinders off.

Well it's obvious what happened here. The Kool-Aid is just so delicious. Who can help themselves once they take a sip?

This is worth a look, quoted from Wikipedia:

The 'war on drugs'

See also: Policies of the Shinawatra administration#Anti-drug policiesThaksin initiated several highly controversial policies to counter a perceived boom in the Thai drug market, particularly in methamphetamine. After earlier policies like border blocking (most methamphetamine is produced in Myanmar), education, sports, and promoting peer pressure proved ineffective, Thaksin on 14 January 2003 launched a campaign to rid "every square inch of the country" of drugs in three months.^[81] It consisted of changing the punishment policy for drug addicts, setting provincial arrest and seizure targets including "blacklists", awarding government officials for achieving targets and threatening punishment for those who failed to make the quota, targeting dealers, and "ruthless" implementation.

In the first three months, Human Rights Watch reports that 2,275 people were killed.^[82] The government claimed that only around 50 of the deaths were at the hands of the police. Human rights critics say a large number were extrajudicially executed.^[83][84] The government went out of its way to publicize the campaign, through daily announcements of arrest, seizure, and death statistics.

Of course somebody on this thread might claim none of this implicates Thaksin, and that's true. None of this is a conviction. He was only convicted of the land deal involving his wife. As a matter of fact nobody was convicted of any of these deaths b/c evidence of guilt by any party was never found. So, it's obvious that we can all breath a sigh of relief because nobody did anything wrong, especially not the Thaksinator.

Quite true Thaksin was never found guilty of ordering the "extra judicial murders " of "suspected " drug dealers but then again the only thing they could "nail" Al Capone on was an income tax rap, what does that prove?

[DumFarang]

I can't believe any country would ever honor a liar, cheater, and thief with a likeness in a classroom to serve as a role model to children as someone pointed out. Unless of course said would be despot ordered it so, or else.

Better read your history books

Germany early 1940"s

and look what happened then ?????

That would be the "or else." Maybe somebody needs to read posts better.

[animatic]

Thaksin was convicted during his own proxy parties term as government PPP.

Not during the term of the military committee, nor during the term of the Democrats.

He left all on his own jumping bail prior to his conviction being finalized.

And he refused to go to court for first sessions of other charges, all proceeding

while HIS OWN PARTY WAS THE GOVERNMENT.

[Thaddeus]

Quite true Thaksin was never found guilty of ordering the "extra judicial murders " of "suspected " drug dealers but then again the only thing they could "nail" Al Capone on was an income tax rap, what does that prove?

Well Col, it proves one thing for me, Al Capone had a set of balls of his own, rather than allowing the slaughter of thousands of innocents for his own ends without getting a speck of blood or dirt on his own hands.

Yep, I think that'll do.

[Thaddeus]

Thaksin was convicted during his own proxy parties term as government PPP.

Not during the term of the military committee, nor during the term of the Democrats.

He left all on his own jumping bail prior to his conviction being finalized.

And he refused to go to court for first sessions of other charges, all proceeding

while HIS OWN PARTY WAS THE GOVERNMENT.

Ani, please don't bring up stuff like that, they really don't like it.

[AleG]

I'm curious, what was Thaksin's big surprise?

Pairat confirmed his event is a collaboration between the Pheu Thai Party and the red-shirt group.

He added that Thaksin has prepared a big surprise for his supporters on his birthday.

[Thaddeus]

I'm curious, what was Thaksin's big surprise?

Pairat confirmed his event is a collaboration between the Pheu Thai Party and the red-shirt group.

He added that Thaksin has prepared a big surprise for his supporters on his birthday.

He's still got six minutes Thai time..... Thaksin Time, anyone's guess.

[nurofiend]

Oh boy, this thread's going to be fun! How the Thaksin haters will be seething!

(..and saying it will never happen, just like the election result. )

there will be at least 2500 families who were victims of this 'good guy' and his crackdown on dealers, who will not be celebrating! 1400 killed were innocent of any drug dealing.

Yeah aroya very true, unfortunately many only remember his 30 baht health scheme rather than focusing on he was the sole orchestrator of mass murder of many Innocent people.

the war on drugs was inexcusable but there are questions involving the numbers, as in the murder rate for that period included all murders in the country during that time

some people argue, and i'm not one of them because i don't know the facts, that a lot of the 1400 murders were non-drug related, non police related and that a lot of the overall murders were also inter gang murders

now i know the police did murder a lot of people during that time and i'm sure some of them were innocent

but i don't think that the police killed all 2500... that's just my opinion, not fact, if someone can prove me wrong or right with factual evidence i'd be much obliged

and i repeat, thaksins war on drugs had barbaric results

[Colin Yai]

Oh boy, this thread's going to be fun! How the Thaksin haters will be seething!

(..and saying it will never happen, just like the election result. )

there will be at least 2500 families who were victims of this 'good guy' and his crackdown on dealers, who will not be celebrating! 1400 killed were innocent of any drug dealing.

Yeah aroya very true, unfortunately many only remember his 30 baht health scheme rather than focusing on he was the sole orchestrator of mass murder of many Innocent people.

the war on drugs was inexcusable but there are questions involving the numbers, as in the murder rate for that period included all murders in the country during that time

some people argue, and i'm not one of them because i don't know the facts, that a lot of the 1400 murders were non-drug related, non police related and that a lot of the overall murders were also inter gang murders

now i know the police did murder a lot of people during that time and i'm sure some of them were innocent

but i don't think that the police killed all 2500... that's just my opinion, not fact, if someone can prove me wrong or right with factual evidence i'd be much obliged

and i repeat, thaksins war on drugs had barbaric results

You may well be correct,but does it not strike you as rather odd that of the 2,500 or so deaths ,no one was ever wounded ,and no one was ever charged with a single death!

[pauljones]

Why no investigation since the coup?

Surely, Thaksins enemies would have pushed for an investigation if they though he ordered the killings.

Conclusion:

The people that did the killing will not investigate themselves.

[DumFarang]

You may well be correct,but does it not strike you as rather odd that of the 2,500 or so deaths ,no one was ever wounded ,and no one was ever charged with a single death!

This is the thing isn't it? It hit a point where the questions just stopped getting asked b/c there weren't any answers. That's just never right, not only this once.

[Colin Yai]

You may well be correct,but does it not strike you as rather odd that of the 2,500 or so deaths ,no one was ever wounded ,and no one was ever charged with a single death!

This is the thing isn't it? It hit a point where the questions just stopped getting asked b/c there weren't any answers. That's just never right, not only this once.

Let me put it this way DF if in the last 3 months 2,500 people had been gunned down and not one case had been solved , would you think that this was quite normal and the "clear up" rate of 0% was quite satisfactory,if the excuse given by the police that many lost their lives during "gang warfare" why was no one ever wounded? .

[DumFarang]

You may well be correct,but does it not strike you as rather odd that of the 2,500 or so deaths ,no one was ever wounded ,and no one was ever charged with a single death!

This is the thing isn't it? It hit a point where the questions just stopped getting asked b/c there weren't any answers. That's just never right, not only this once.

Let me put it this way DF if in the last 3 months 2,500 people had been gunned down and not one case had been solved , would you think that this was quite normal and the "clear up" rate of 0% was quite satisfactory,if the excuse given by the police that many lost their lives during "gang warfare" why was no one ever wounded? .

Oh it definitely stinks to high heaven. Somebody on this thread expressed the notion that no one was charged and convicted, and implied that this absolves of them of everything, even Thaksin. What a ridiculous notion. It would be laughable if it weren't so sad.

[cup-O-coffee]

Oh it definitely stinks to high heaven. Somebody on this thread expressed the notion that no one was charged and convicted, and implied that this absolves of them of everything, even Thaksin. What a ridiculous notion. It would be laughable if it weren't so sad.

"In The Last Battle, by C. S. Lewis, some dwarves have an interesting role. They refuse to believe in a false Aslan, and also refuse to believe in a real one. When the Calormenes throw them into a dark stable, they refuse to see anything but what you would expect to find in such a building, even though other characters in the book can see that the stable, in reality, is not dark, and has no walls -- just a door.

Lucy Pevensie, who has a soft heart, tries to get the Lion, Aslan, to make things better for the dwarves, Aslan produces a banquet for them. They eat, but they think they are eating old cattle food, or drinking from a trough for animals. When a dwarf is picked up and carried toward the outside, he experiences being slammed into the wall, even though there is no wall. Aslan says that they have chosen not to believe, and there is nothing he can do for them."

Someone in this thread expects you to type this kind of response. That is alright, as well as expected. There is nothing anyone can do for your kind. That is not a bad thing or a good thing. It simply is. The damning thing is you may be too ignorant or stiff-necked to admit it, and simply keep on playing your trump cards over and over and over. When you admit this, as the one poster admitted he has not liked Thaksin for over eleven years, then maybe we can move forward. The constant tripe about Thaksin really does get cheapened as oft as it is resurrected, along with the inferences to Hitler and the Jews, and all the sickos in the past.

It really is amazing how much posters get away with in this forum when it comes to this man. For example the sick comment about Thaksin's sex life with his wife. That is the amazing thing. Any other person in Thailand and I am sure there would be warnings and banning left and right.

[ginjag]

You may well be correct,but does it not strike you as rather odd that of the 2,500 or so deaths ,no one was ever wounded ,and no one was ever charged with a single death!

This is the thing isn't it? It hit a point where the questions just stopped getting asked b/c there weren't any answers. That's just never right, not only this once.

Let me put it this way DF if in the last 3 months 2,500 people had been gunned down and not one case had been solved , would you think that this was quite normal and the "clear up" rate of 0% was quite satisfactory,if the excuse given by the police that many lost their lives during "gang warfare" why was no one ever wounded? .

Oh it definitely stinks to high heaven. Somebody on this thread expressed the notion that no one was charged and convicted, and implied that this absolves of them of everything, even Thaksin. What a ridiculous notion. It would be laughable if it weren't so sad.

Kalasin-Issan ,mother and father are still trying to get answers to "Where is our son" missing in the war on drugs, He happens to be 1 of the 2.5 k international organisations do not seem to have the answers. (or are lied to) My point being the P.M. at the time ordered the war on drugs to satisfy the world outcry====what about their(victims) birthday bash???????

[ginjag]

Oh it definitely stinks to high heaven. Somebody on this thread expressed the notion that no one was charged and convicted, and implied that this absolves of them of everything, even Thaksin. What a ridiculous notion. It would be laughable if it weren't so sad.

"In The Last Battle, by C. S. Lewis, some dwarves have an interesting role. They refuse to believe in a false Aslan, and also refuse to believe in a real one. When the Calormenes throw them into a dark stable, they refuse to see anything but what you would expect to find in such a building, even though other characters in the book can see that the stable, in reality, is not dark, and has no walls -- just a door.

Lucy Pevensie, who has a soft heart, tries to get the Lion, Aslan, to make things better for the dwarves, Aslan produces a banquet for them. They eat, but they think they are eating old cattle food, or drinking from a trough for animals. When a dwarf is picked up and carried toward the outside, he experiences being slammed into the wall, even though there is no wall. Aslan says that they have chosen not to believe, and there is nothing he can do for them."

Someone in this thread expects you to type this kind of response. That is alright, as well as expected. There is nothing anyone can do for your kind. That is not a bad thing or a good thing. It simply is. The damning thing is you may be too ignorant or stiff-necked to admit it, and simply keep on playing your trump cards over and over and over. When you admit this, as the one poster admitted he has not liked Thaksin for over eleven years, then maybe we can move forward. The constant tripe about Thaksin really does get cheapened as oft as it is resurrected, along with the inferences to Hitler and the Jews, and all the sickos in the past.

It really is amazing how much posters get away with in this forum when it comes to this man. For example the sick comment about Thaksin's sex life with his wife. That is the amazing thing. Any other person in Thailand and I am sure there would be warnings and banning left and right.

I will agree with you on the point of comparison re-Hitler/Jews but apart from that majority of posters are saying what actually happened here over the years, it always reads to a Thaksin believer that anyone who is truth telling automatically hates the man, and some do ,but I think most show their dislike for him for having his fingers in the Thai till(sticky fingers)-and the massive abuse of power-+the war on drugs that was hushed up to the where abouts of the victims, he was responsible as he ordered the crackdown and then brushed it under the carpet.

So it's not so amazing really is it if truth is known. Also yes he did good things-BUT HE GOT ELECTED AND PAID> it was his JOB so all the rubbish about some good things does not cancel out the shocking things.

[DumFarang]

There seem to be some people who think enough time has passed to just forgive and forget Thaksin's past even to the point of expressing it philosophically, not likely. It would disgrace too many people, some who have lost loved ones. No amount of adequate time ever passes for that to be forgotten. It's a life mistake.

What amazes me is, in the shadow of his birthday, there's actually a debate taking place here about whether or not he's good or innocent when he was the PM who ordered a ruthless crackdown on the drug trade that resulted in over 2,000 deaths, and that's the tip of the iceberg. If someone were to walk up to anyone anywhere who doesn't know Thaksin and describe things he's done most ordinary people would say he sounds like a real piece of schidte. That's the truth.

[geriatrickid]

Kalasin-Issan ,mother and father are still trying to get answers to "Where is our son" missing in the war on drugs, He happens to be 1 of the 2.5 k international organisations do not seem to have the answers. (or are lied to) My point being the P.M. at the time ordered the war on drugs to satisfy the world outcry====what about their(victims) birthday bash???????

At the time, In any given month in there were approximately 400 murders a month, many of which were unsolved and drug related. Almost 80% of those deaths involved a forearm. Following the blow delivered to the drug cartels and their Burmese based drug suppliers, Thailand's murder rate fell dramatically. (And before any smartass wants to play with the numbers and say there was not a significant drop off, remove the murders related to the southern insurgency which spiked in 2005-2006.) Those are the facts. Why do you think the murder rate fell by almost 40%? Do you think it is possible that the drug gangs were shooting and bribing their way to control of various regions? Yes, many people that died during the fight against the drug cartels were innocent civilian casualties, but they were often murdered by the drug trafficers. The assumption that 2500 were killed in extrajudicial killings can not be proven. There is no doubt that many people died due to the gross negligence of the police and the army. The responsible parties are the police and military commanders. It is easy to point the finger. It makes all the Thaksin haters happy because it provides a neat simple solution to what was a complex problem. The Prime Minister ordered that the people of Thailand be protected against a slow moving assumption of control by drug cartels in Thailand. Rather than taking potshots at a PM that took a tough decision you should be expressing gratitude because Thailand would have been taken over by the drug cartels had Mr. Thaksin not acted with the full support of the population.

It is unfortunate an innocent person may have died. However, innocent people were being murdered by the drug dealers on any given day. Chances are that many of these people or their relatives or their friends would have been killed had the government of Thailand not intervened. Civilians always die in wars. That too is the reality.

Edited July 27, 2011 by geriatrickid

[Artisi]

Kalasin-Issan ,mother and father are still trying to get answers to "Where is our son" missing in the war on drugs, He happens to be 1 of the 2.5 k international organisations do not seem to have the answers. (or are lied to) My point being the P.M. at the time ordered the war on drugs to satisfy the world outcry====what about their(victims) birthday bash???????

At the time, In any given month in there were approximately 400 murders a month, many of which were unsolved and drug related. Almost 80% of those deaths involved a forearm. Following the blow delivered to the drug cartels and their Burmese based drug suppliers, Thailand's murder rate fell dramatically. (And before any smartass wants to play with the numbers and say there was not a significant drop off, remove the murders related to the southern insurgency which spiked in 2005-2006.) Those are the facts. Why do you think the murder rate fell by almost 40%? Do you think it is possible that the drug gangs were shooting and bribing their way to control of various regions? Yes, many people that died during the fight against the drug cartels were innocent civilian casualties, but they were often murdered by the drug trafficers. The assumption that 2500 were killed in extrajudicial killings can not be proven. There is no doubt that many people died due to the gross negligence of the police and the army. The responsible parties are the police and military commanders. It is easy to point the finger. It makes all the Thaksin haters happy because it provides a neat simple solution to what was a complex problem. The Prime Minister ordered that the people of Thailand be protected against a slow moving assumption of control by drug cartels in Thailand. Rather than taking potshots at a PM that took a tough decision you should be expressing gratitude because Thailand would have been taken over by the drug cartels had Mr. Thaksin not acted with the full support of the population.

It is unfortunate an innocent person may have died. However, innocent people were being murdered by the drug dealers on any given day. Chances are that many of these people or their relatives or their friends would have been killed had the government of Thailand not intervened. Civilians always die in wars. That too is the reality.

Next time maybe you might be lucky and have a few of your loved ones gunned down in the pursuit of drug eradication, just hope you don't start looking for any sympathy.

[Colin Yai]

There seem to be some people who think enough time has passed to just forgive and forget Thaksin's past even to the point of expressing it philosophically, not likely. It would disgrace too many people, some who have lost loved ones. No amount of adequate time ever passes for that to be forgotten. It's a life mistake.

What amazes me is, in the shadow of his birthday, there's actually a debate taking place here about whether or not he's good or innocent when he was the PM who ordered a ruthless crackdown on the drug trade that resulted in over 2,000 deaths, and that's the tip of the iceberg. If someone were to walk up to anyone anywhere who doesn't know Thaksin and describe things he's done most ordinary people would say he sounds like a real piece of schidte. That's the truth.

I just wonder if those people who say enough time has elapsed, so loved ones who lost their lives in Thaksins WOD should forgive and forget , would say the same about the Simon Wiesenthal organisation, a Jewish group who were formed to hunt down Nazi's who perpetrated crimes against humanity in the death camps such as Bergen Belsen and Auschwitz?, many of of whom were brought to justice after more than 2 decades such as Adolf Eichmann.

[cup-O-coffee]

Oh it definitely stinks to high heaven. Somebody on this thread expressed the notion that no one was charged and convicted, and implied that this absolves of them of everything, even Thaksin. What a ridiculous notion. It would be laughable if it weren't so sad.

"In The Last Battle, by C. S. Lewis, some dwarves have an interesting role. They refuse to believe in a false Aslan, and also refuse to believe in a real one. When the Calormenes throw them into a dark stable, they refuse to see anything but what you would expect to find in such a building, even though other characters in the book can see that the stable, in reality, is not dark, and has no walls -- just a door.

Lucy Pevensie, who has a soft heart, tries to get the Lion, Aslan, to make things better for the dwarves, Aslan produces a banquet for them. They eat, but they think they are eating old cattle food, or drinking from a trough for animals. When a dwarf is picked up and carried toward the outside, he experiences being slammed into the wall, even though there is no wall. Aslan says that they have chosen not to believe, and there is nothing he can do for them."

Someone in this thread expects you to type this kind of response. That is alright, as well as expected. There is nothing anyone can do for your kind. That is not a bad thing or a good thing. It simply is. The damning thing is you may be too ignorant or stiff-necked to admit it, and simply keep on playing your trump cards over and over and over. When you admit this, as the one poster admitted he has not liked Thaksin for over eleven years, then maybe we can move forward. The constant tripe about Thaksin really does get cheapened as oft as it is resurrected, along with the inferences to Hitler and the Jews, and all the sickos in the past.

It really is amazing how much posters get away with in this forum when it comes to this man. For example the sick comment about Thaksin's sex life with his wife. That is the amazing thing. Any other person in Thailand and I am sure there would be warnings and banning left and right.

I will agree with you on the point of comparison re-Hitler/Jews but apart from that majority of posters are saying what actually happened here over the years, it always reads to a Thaksin believer that anyone who is truth telling automatically hates the man, and some do ,but I think most show their dislike for him for having his fingers in the Thai till(sticky fingers)-and the massive abuse of power-+the war on drugs that was hushed up to the where abouts of the victims, he was responsible as he ordered the crackdown and then brushed it under the carpet.

So it's not so amazing really is it if truth is known. Also yes he did good things-BUT HE GOT ELECTED AND PAID> it was his JOB so all the rubbish about some good things does not cancel out the shocking things.

It's not the truth telling, according to their interpretations of the truth. It's not the fact that I believe Thaksin is like the rest of them all over the world and throughout history, to a degree. It is the constant harping like a stubborn, spoiled child, who keeps bleating over and over again on the same points; points that I strongly believe are clouded with un-admitted, sheer hatred. It's like a damaged dog that pisses itself when you pat it on the head, because it had been kicked too much by its former owner.

We can all make a list of living and past leaders of powerful countries, who have done much much worse than Thaksin. The point is that there is no point. It's the bleating that makes any truth difficult to focus on. What is wrong with making a war on people who are more devoted and more willing to kill you for interfering with their business or their grip on power? Are you telling me that people who are evil will step aside if you ask them? There is more truth in Thaksin taking the fight to the drug scum than one hundred years of what the US has accomplished against the drug trade. The facts are that the only way to rid the world of drug scum is with extreme prejudice. These people are the worst kind of humans and they will kill you and your wife and children and mother and father, just as soon as look at you. How are you going to deal with an element like that? They are the real terrorists in this world, if you want to believe in this word. They will use fear to control the media and the politicians, and they will stoop to any level to make things out like they are today. These scum are in all stations of life. They are everywhere, and they look just like you and I, and they are also in positions of "legitimate" power.

That Thaksin had the cojones to take on this issue speaks volumes. That he has been decried and spat upon is no surprise. The elements that work against this one lone man far outweigh the cowardly support he gets for trying to eliminate something you and I hate to the core of our souls. I laugh to myself when I read the maudlin comments about the poor people who want to know where their son is. It's like the poor black single crack mother, who is convinces her son is a victim when the police some to arrest him for murdering a women and her child in a car-jacking. Not even Jesus could heal all the people, and he also had to make a decision which village he visited. So, why isn't he blamed for not going to this village, instead of going to that village? That is the kind of stupid mentality these posts direct towards this man. No matter what he does, did, and presumably will do, he will be damned either way.

The cherry picking, as a result of me stirring the pot, is quite clear, and it is also ludicrous as this plays out. Just admit it! You hate the man and you will never give him one iota of ground towards the positive. That kind of bias is to your discredit. It moves the show backwards and kills progress and positive change.

[cup-O-coffee]

Kalasin-Issan ,mother and father are still trying to get answers to "Where is our son" missing in the war on drugs, He happens to be 1 of the 2.5 k international organisations do not seem to have the answers. (or are lied to) My point being the P.M. at the time ordered the war on drugs to satisfy the world outcry====what about their(victims) birthday bash???????

At the time, In any given month in there were approximately 400 murders a month, many of which were unsolved and drug related. Almost 80% of those deaths involved a forearm. Following the blow delivered to the drug cartels and their Burmese based drug suppliers, Thailand's murder rate fell dramatically. (And before any smartass wants to play with the numbers and say there was not a significant drop off, remove the murders related to the southern insurgency which spiked in 2005-2006.) Those are the facts. Why do you think the murder rate fell by almost 40%? Do you think it is possible that the drug gangs were shooting and bribing their way to control of various regions? Yes, many people that died during the fight against the drug cartels were innocent civilian casualties, but they were often murdered by the drug trafficers. The assumption that 2500 were killed in extrajudicial killings can not be proven. There is no doubt that many people died due to the gross negligence of the police and the army. The responsible parties are the police and military commanders. It is easy to point the finger. It makes all the Thaksin haters happy because it provides a neat simple solution to what was a complex problem. The Prime Minister ordered that the people of Thailand be protected against a slow moving assumption of control by drug cartels in Thailand. Rather than taking potshots at a PM that took a tough decision you should be expressing gratitude because Thailand would have been taken over by the drug cartels had Mr. Thaksin not acted with the full support of the population.

It is unfortunate an innocent person may have died. However, innocent people were being murdered by the drug dealers on any given day. Chances are that many of these people or their relatives or their friends would have been killed had the government of Thailand not intervened. Civilians always die in wars. That too is the reality.

Respectfully, you did not mention the thousands of children, who are daily being done in slowly by the brain-killing effects of these drugs, Same goes for the drug-addicted pregnant moms. But no one wants to see this. There is a lot more to paint an ugly picture. At the end of the day, what is going to be done? Well. Mr. Thaksin made a move. Now he is being vilified. This sends a bad message. "Don't make a stand against the drug scum, because somebody's poor baby might get caught in the cross fire." Sorry to jump in on your post, but this steams me.

[cup-O-coffee]

There seem to be some people who think enough time has passed to just forgive and forget Thaksin's past even to the point of expressing it philosophically, not likely. It would disgrace too many people, some who have lost loved ones. No amount of adequate time ever passes for that to be forgotten. It's a life mistake.

What amazes me is, in the shadow of his birthday, there's actually a debate taking place here about whether or not he's good or innocent when he was the PM who ordered a ruthless crackdown on the drug trade that resulted in over 2,000 deaths, and that's the tip of the iceberg. If someone were to walk up to anyone anywhere who doesn't know Thaksin and describe things he's done most ordinary people would say he sounds like a real piece of schidte. That's the truth.

I just wonder if those people who say enough time has elapsed, so loved ones who lost their lives in Thaksins WOD should forgive and forget , would say the same about the Simon Wiesenthal organisation, a Jewish group who were formed to hunt down Nazi's who perpetrated crimes against humanity in the death camps such as Bergen Belsen and Auschwitz?, many of of whom were brought to justice after more than 2 decades such as Adolf Eichmann.

No, if someone walked up to you two and got the goods, this might be the case, if they were gullible enough to believe your very biased views. Am I supposed to fall silent and tremble in fear of offending you when you wave this trump card? Likening Thaksin to these beasts is a discredit to your cause, and cheapens the things you have worked so hard for. You should use your trump card for more positive solutions, rather then to besmirch someone over something much much less in question.

[cup-O-coffee]

Kalasin-Issan ,mother and father are still trying to get answers to "Where is our son" missing in the war on drugs, He happens to be 1 of the 2.5 k international organisations do not seem to have the answers. (or are lied to) My point being the P.M. at the time ordered the war on drugs to satisfy the world outcry====what about their(victims) birthday bash???????

At the time, In any given month in there were approximately 400 murders a month, many of which were unsolved and drug related. Almost 80% of those deaths involved a forearm. Following the blow delivered to the drug cartels and their Burmese based drug suppliers, Thailand's murder rate fell dramatically. (And before any smartass wants to play with the numbers and say there was not a significant drop off, remove the murders related to the southern insurgency which spiked in 2005-2006.) Those are the facts. Why do you think the murder rate fell by almost 40%? Do you think it is possible that the drug gangs were shooting and bribing their way to control of various regions? Yes, many people that died during the fight against the drug cartels were innocent civilian casualties, but they were often murdered by the drug trafficers. The assumption that 2500 were killed in extrajudicial killings can not be proven. There is no doubt that many people died due to the gross negligence of the police and the army. The responsible parties are the police and military commanders. It is easy to point the finger. It makes all the Thaksin haters happy because it provides a neat simple solution to what was a complex problem. The Prime Minister ordered that the people of Thailand be protected against a slow moving assumption of control by drug cartels in Thailand. Rather than taking potshots at a PM that took a tough decision you should be expressing gratitude because Thailand would have been taken over by the drug cartels had Mr. Thaksin not acted with the full support of the population.

It is unfortunate an innocent person may have died. However, innocent people were being murdered by the drug dealers on any given day. Chances are that many of these people or their relatives or their friends would have been killed had the government of Thailand not intervened. Civilians always die in wars. That too is the reality.

Next time maybe you might be lucky and have a few of your loved ones gunned down in the pursuit of drug eradication, just hope you don't start looking for any sympathy.

Now I think that is one of the most naive and narrow-minded things that an intelligent adult could say. But who am I? The people who live in the middle of this and do nothing, and then get gunned down; are they victims? The only way for the drug scum to be eradicated is for communities to form committees; like neighborhood watches for example. Know who your neighbors are. Evict scum who rent in your neighborhood and carry out illegal activities. Get the police involved with neighborhood watches.

There is no denying that the business of the drug scum is advancing at a rate in direct proportion of the people's apathy towards this. The police can only do so much.

Why, my good fellow, do your loved ones have to be gunned down when you already know there is a problem that will inevitably bring about such a violent reaction? My question to the families is, "What measures did you take to fight this well known neighborhood issue before the shootings began?"

You presume too much, and to insinuate that having a loved one being gunned down as being lucky is downright sardonic. That is not going to prove any point to a solution. It will only perpetuate a growing issue of evil in this world.

Edited July 27, 2011 by cup-O-coffee

[hammered]

Kalasin-Issan ,mother and father are still trying to get answers to "Where is our son" missing in the war on drugs, He happens to be 1 of the 2.5 k international organisations do not seem to have the answers. (or are lied to) My point being the P.M. at the time ordered the war on drugs to satisfy the world outcry====what about their(victims) birthday bash???????

At the time, In any given month in there were approximately 400 murders a month, many of which were unsolved and drug related. Almost 80% of those deaths involved a forearm. Following the blow delivered to the drug cartels and their Burmese based drug suppliers, Thailand's murder rate fell dramatically. (And before any smartass wants to play with the numbers and say there was not a significant drop off, remove the murders related to the southern insurgency which spiked in 2005-2006.) Those are the facts. Why do you think the murder rate fell by almost 40%? Do you think it is possible that the drug gangs were shooting and bribing their way to control of various regions? Yes, many people that died during the fight against the drug cartels were innocent civilian casualties, but they were often murdered by the drug trafficers. The assumption that 2500 were killed in extrajudicial killings can not be proven. There is no doubt that many people died due to the gross negligence of the police and the army. The responsible parties are the police and military commanders. It is easy to point the finger. It makes all the Thaksin haters happy because it provides a neat simple solution to what was a complex problem. The Prime Minister ordered that the people of Thailand be protected against a slow moving assumption of control by drug cartels in Thailand. Rather than taking potshots at a PM that took a tough decision you should be expressing gratitude because Thailand would have been taken over by the drug cartels had Mr. Thaksin not acted with the full support of the population.

It is unfortunate an innocent person may have died. However, innocent people were being murdered by the drug dealers on any given day. Chances are that many of these people or their relatives or their friends would have been killed had the government of Thailand not intervened. Civilians always die in wars. That too is the reality.

It is utterly ludicrous to state that drug cartels were going to take over Thailand at that time. It is equally as ludicrous to compare innocents being killed owing to a government policy with targets during a time of peace and democracy with civilians being killed in war. It all sounds like authoritarian loving fantasist stuff. Still mildly amusing to read, please keep the entertainment coming

[tonbridgebrit]

There seem to be some people who think enough time has passed to just forgive and forget Thaksin's past even to the point of expressing it philosophically, not likely. It would disgrace too many people, some who have lost loved ones. No amount of adequate time ever passes for that to be forgotten. It's a life mistake.

What amazes me is, in the shadow of his birthday, there's actually a debate taking place here about whether or not he's good or innocent when he was the PM who ordered a ruthless crackdown on the drug trade that resulted in over 2,000 deaths, and that's the tip of the iceberg. If someone were to walk up to anyone anywhere who doesn't know Thaksin and describe things he's done most ordinary people would say he sounds like a real piece of schidte. That's the truth.

I just wonder if those people who say enough time has elapsed, so loved ones who lost their lives in Thaksins WOD should forgive and forget , would say the same about the Simon Wiesenthal organisation, a Jewish group who were formed to hunt down Nazi's who perpetrated crimes against humanity in the death camps such as Bergen Belsen and Auschwitz?, many of of whom were brought to justice after more than 2 decades such as Adolf Eichmann.

Right, there is a very big difference between Hitler doing mass murder of five to six million Jews (and a stack of others) and Thaksin's deaths. In Hitler's case, the intention was to kill people in a particular ethnic/racial group(s). In Thaksin's case, the intention was to remove drug dealers who cause enormous problems in society.

Yes, bringing up comparisons between Hitler and Thaksin makes people look silly.

Can I just ask something ? Right, the reason why there are more anti-Thaksin people than pro-Thaksin people amongst us foreigners is, supposedly, because Thaksin was corrupt (they say he is a crook, he broke Thai law). But, I'm convinced there's something else. There's another reason why most of the people on Thai Visa don't like him. I mean, for those who don't like him because of his corrupt ways, well, there's stacks of other politicians who are corrupt. I do have vague memories of talking back in pre- 2006, of blokes drinking in bars, and having a pop at Thaksin, and it wasn't about Thaksin being a crook !!