Surely the fact that we should have to differentiate into "British Muslims" points to the fact there's a problem.

I wonder how the "British Thais", "British Latvians", "British Buddhists" feel.

Not necessarily. You wouldn't have reacted that way to a mention of British Sikhs or British Hindus. Thais and Latvians are not religious groups, and Buddhists are more of a philosophy than a religion.

Are British Catholics patriotic? Now there's a real problem... though perhaps less so now than in the past.

What about presbyterians?

SC

The Islamist terrorists are aiming for global, not local, changes.

you haven't done your homework Humph the islamist terrorists have only one thing in mind. but i won't tell you. you have to find out yourself

p.s. as you are not an American please don't come up with ridiculous reasons created in Boise, Idaho and Duluth, Minnesota such as

-they envy us for our freedom,

-they envy us because we drink ale, whisky and port,

-they hate us because we don't fancy grilled ram peckers and eyes,

-they don't approve that our women wear bikinis.

The Islamist terrorists are aiming for global, not local, changes.

you haven't done your homework Humph the islamist terrorists have only one thing in mind. but i won't tell you. you have to find out yourself

p.s. as you are not an American please don't come up with ridiculous reasons created in Boise, Idaho and Duluth, Minnesota such as

-they envy us for our freedom,

-they envy us because we drink ale, whisky and port,

-they hate us because we don't fancy grilled ram peckers and eyes,

-they don't approve that our women wear bikinis.

Ah yes, in America, we know they hate us for our "ale" and "port".

Ultimately the responsibility lies with those who are teaching the Islamic faith to their young people. Walking through East London you will find mosques full of practicing muslims...you will also find small shopfronts or houses declaring themselves schools of Islamic teaching. Its what goes on behind these doors, unregulated and unsupervised by decent and tolerant teachers that should give cause for concern.

Well in my opinion these places ought to be banned.

Off-topic posts and a post discussing moderation have been removed as well as posts quoting the deleted posts.

Please stick to the topic and treat other posters in a civil manner. If you can't be civil, then you can ignore them and not respond.

The Islamist terrorists are aiming for global, not local, changes.

you haven't done your homework Humph the islamist terrorists have only one thing in mind. but i won't tell you. you have to find out yourself

p.s. as you are not an American please don't come up with ridiculous reasons created in Boise, Idaho and Duluth, Minnesota such as

-they envy us for our freedom,

-they envy us because we drink ale, whisky and port,

-they hate us because we don't fancy grilled ram peckers and eyes,

-they don't approve that our women wear bikinis.

Ah yes, in America, we know they hate us for our "ale" and "port".

"ale" applies. but as far as "port" is concerned i admit defeat and say "touché" because i don't live in America anymore

Ultimately the responsibility lies with those who are teaching the Islamic faith to their young people. Walking through East London you will find mosques full of practicing muslims...you will also find small shopfronts or houses declaring themselves schools of Islamic teaching. Its what goes on behind these doors, unregulated and unsupervised by decent and tolerant teachers that should give cause for concern.

Well in my opinion these places ought to be banned.

I don't think the Government could ban them (freedom of religion and all that), but there certainly needs to be some way to control them.

Ultimately the responsibility lies with those who are teaching the Islamic faith to their young people. Walking through East London you will find mosques full of practicing muslims...you will also find small shopfronts or houses declaring themselves schools of Islamic teaching. Its what goes on behind these doors, unregulated and unsupervised by decent and tolerant teachers that should give cause for concern.

Well in my opinion these places ought to be banned.

you must have formed your opinion after attending some of these teachings and that's why you are concerned i presume?

Ultimately the responsibility lies with those who are teaching the Islamic faith to their young people. Walking through East London you will find mosques full of practicing muslims...you will also find small shopfronts or houses declaring themselves schools of Islamic teaching. Its what goes on behind these doors, unregulated and unsupervised by decent and tolerant teachers that should give cause for concern.

Well in my opinion these places ought to be banned.

you must have formed your opinion after attending some of these teachings and that's why you are concerned i presume?

Are you suggesting we actually need to know something before forming an opinion? What is the world coming to?

Ultimately the responsibility lies with those who are teaching the Islamic faith to their young people. Walking through East London you will find mosques full of practicing muslims...you will also find small shopfronts or houses declaring themselves schools of Islamic teaching. Its what goes on behind these doors, unregulated and unsupervised by decent and tolerant teachers that should give cause for concern.

Well in my opinion these places ought to be banned.

you must have formed your opinion after attending some of these teachings and that's why you are concerned i presume?

Are you suggesting we actually need to know something before forming an opinion? What is the world coming to?

Helpmaboab! Its not often something on this forum turns my life upside down, but this could be a rare exception!

Surely not. Can you quote us an example of someone who has succumbed to such a foolish prerequisite?

Surely, like faith, opinion denies knowledge?

SC

Ultimately the responsibility lies with those who are teaching the Islamic faith to their young people. Walking through East London you will find mosques full of practicing muslims...you will also find small shopfronts or houses declaring themselves schools of Islamic teaching. Its what goes on behind these doors, unregulated and unsupervised by decent and tolerant teachers that should give cause for concern.

Well in my opinion these places ought to be banned.

you must have formed your opinion after attending some of these teachings and that's why you are concerned i presume?

Are you suggesting we actually need to know something before forming an opinion? What is the world coming to?

of course not. if the Daily Mail or The Sun doesn't educate us during breakfast we resort to poking in some of our orifices, evaluate the proceeds and form an opinion.

as simple as that!

of course not. if the Daily Mail or The Sun doesn't educate us during breakfast we resort to poking in some of our orifices, evaluate the proceeds and form an opinion.

as simple as that!

That is surely paganism.

A basically Euopean religion (or group thereof) that is being re-popularised by said tabloids.

Ultimately the responsibility lies with those who are teaching the Islamic faith to their young people. Walking through East London you will find mosques full of practicing muslims...you will also find small shopfronts or houses declaring themselves schools of Islamic teaching. Its what goes on behind these doors, unregulated and unsupervised by decent and tolerant teachers that should give cause for concern.

Well in my opinion these places ought to be banned.

you must have formed your opinion after attending some of these teachings and that's why you are concerned i presume?

Are you suggesting we actually need to know something before forming an opinion? What is the world coming to?

of course not. if the Daily Mail or The Sun doesn't educate us during breakfast we resort to poking in some of our orifices, evaluate the proceeds and form an opinion.

as simple as that!

There are to my knowledge 38 properly run mosques in East London. Why then is there a need for these hole in the wall shop front places?

There are to my knowledge 38 properly run mosques in East London. Why then is there a need for these hole in the wall shop front places?

No need at all... but how do you close them down? And I seem to remember more than one of the 'properly run' ones have rabble-rousing imams. One (I forget his name) was expelled from the country, but there was a great fuss about it even though he'd been preaching terrorist aims.

There are to my knowledge 38 properly run mosques in East London. Why then is there a need for these hole in the wall shop front places?

is that the reason why they should be banned? how many pubs are in some parts of London, family marts in Bangkok, bars in Pattaya or noodle stalls in Chiang Mai? what's the maximum allowed number of pubs, family marts, bars or noodle stalls in these places based on "smokie's law"? shouldn't noodle stalls or street vendors be banned as there are quite a number of properly run restaurants in Chiang Mai (i was told)

There are to my knowledge 38 properly run mosques in East London. Why then is there a need for these hole in the wall shop front places?

is that the reason why they should be banned? how many pubs are in some parts of London, family marts in Bangkok, bars in Pattaya or noodle stalls in Chiang Mai? what's the maximum allowed number of pubs, family marts, bars or noodle stalls in these places based on "smokie's law"? shouldn't noodle stalls or street vendors be banned as there are quite a number of properly run restaurants in Chiang Mai (i was told)

I'll stick to religious groups for now if you don't mind. These places are similar to madrassas in Pakistan, spreading a message of intolerance.

As to the question of banning similar Christian groups I don't see them preaching intolerance, merely gaining a better understanding and respect for other faiths. Same goes for Hinduism or Buddhism.

I'll stick to religious groups for now if you don't mind. These places are similar to madrassas in Pakistan, spreading a message of intolerance.

As to the question of banning similar Christian groups I don't see them preaching intolerance, merely gaining a better understanding and respect for other faiths. Same goes for Hinduism or Buddhism.

you didn't answer my question the first time. therefore i ask again did you attend some of these "meetings" and found out that intolerance is spread? come to think of it... do they preach in Cockney or Urdu? and if it's Urdu has the preacher man acquired a cockney accent?

I'll stick to religious groups for now if you don't mind. These places are similar to madrassas in Pakistan, spreading a message of intolerance.

As to the question of banning similar Christian groups I don't see them preaching intolerance, merely gaining a better understanding and respect for other faiths. Same goes for Hinduism or Buddhism.

you didn't answer my question the first time. therefore i ask again did you attend some of these "meetings" and found out that intolerance is spread? come to think of it... do they preach in Cockney or Urdu? and if it's Urdu has the preacher man acquired a cockney accent?

Not personally no. Here's a decent article on this subject.

http://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/doc_centre/terrorism/docs/ec_radicalisation_study_on_mobilisation_tactics_en.pdf

a decent report indeed. but i fail to see a connection to your demand that

hole in the wall shop front places

should be banned. au contraire! being a pragmatic i think that knowing these places makes it easier for the authorities to check whether and what kind of jihad messages are spread and/or attempts are made to recruit Muslims for terrorist actions.

Of course, there is also a 'fanatic Christian' element- most recently the notable and tragic combination bombing/mass slaughter of teenagers by that Norwegian anti-Islamic nutter. Nutterism is created on both sides of the fences of cultural distrust. (It used to be that the Christian nutters simply blew up abortion clinics and lynched gays and black men, but that had more Christian nutter popular support than killing kids).

I don't think this really applies to Britain. Certainly we have our Christian nutters too, but I don't think they go in for violence like Brehvik and the Americans cited.

Anyway the topic was British Muslims... who have been seen to present more of a problem.

But wasn't the Norwegian nutter in touch with and supported by British nutters?

Of course, there is also a 'fanatic Christian' element- most recently the notable and tragic combination bombing/mass slaughter of teenagers by that Norwegian anti-Islamic nutter. Nutterism is created on both sides of the fences of cultural distrust. (It used to be that the Christian nutters simply blew up abortion clinics and lynched gays and black men, but that had more Christian nutter popular support than killing kids).

I don't think this really applies to Britain. Certainly we have our Christian nutters too, but I don't think they go in for violence like Brehvik and the Americans cited.

Anyway the topic was British Muslims... who have been seen to present more of a problem.

But wasn't the Norwegian nutter in touch with and supported by British nutters?

No , i have tried to refind myself from this topic as whatever i say might end in a 7 day holiday

the norwegian nutter was political not religous, simlar to hitlar, its how you look at it ..

every religion is as bad as the other in one way on another... just some are more down your throat

IMHO , all religions that promote violence should be BANNED, and the religions who disagree saying only a small minority support violence, well isnt it in your own garden to get up and get rid off these people, but i never see them do it??????????

Peace to all :jap:

The big question is: How much violence would you use on those who violate the ban?

Will it be as effective as the 'ban' on certain recreational drugs?

But wasn't the Norwegian nutter in touch with and supported by British nutters?

No , i have tried to refind myself from this topic as whatever i say might end in a 7 day holiday

the norwegian nutter was political not religous, simlar to hitlar, its how you look at it ..

every religion is as bad as the other in one way on another... just some are more down your throat

IMHO , all religions that promote violence should be BANNED, and the religions who disagree saying only a small minority support violence, well isnt it in your own garden to get up and get rid off these people, but i never see them do it??????????

Peace to all :jap:

Brehvik may have been in touch with British nutters, but that doesn't mean they supported mass murder (they may have done; I just don't know). He claimed he was a Christian... but I doubt anybody agreed with him.

Boater, your views of religion are a bit simplistic.

Islam has no central authority; Sunni, Shia and others are at daggers drawn.

Christianity is split into thousands of sects, denominations (call them what you will), and again, there is no central authority.

Peace be to you too!

IMHO , all religions that promote violence should be BANNED, and the religions who disagree saying only a small minority support violence, well isnt it in your own garden to get up and get rid off these people, but i never see them do it?

basically i agree with the first part of your posting Boater even though history proves that religions can't be banned (Scott's comments = bull's eye!). what i don't understand is the part "the religions who disagree". it's always people who set the path of various religions and you have a variety of people who interprete the teachings of their "holy books" in completely different, sometimes even diametrically different ways.

the latter applies to the Old and New Testament of the Bible as well as to the Qr'an. religious nutters have always existed. even now a bunch of them consider word for word and line for line of their holy books as commandments to be followed. most interesting is the fact that very few of the islamist nutters seem to realise that nearly all ridiculous and outrageous commandments and suggestions mentioned in the Qr'an were copied by old prophet Mohamed from the Bible's Old Testament.

Which religions promote violence? Islam doesn't; Christianity doesn't. There are indeed splinter groups who do (the ones we refer to as nutters) but I hope you wouldn't judge decent God-fearing Christians and Muslims by the nutters; that would be like judging all Norwegians by Brehvik.

The big question is: How much violence would you use on those who violate the ban?

Will it be as effective as the 'ban' on certain recreational drugs?

I think persecution is the best way to grow a religion, and make it more radical.

I would imagine that is the reason that some religious people promote terrorism; in order to enhance their own power amongst their followers, not out of any particular belief that terrorism might bring their enemies to their knees

SC

I think persecution is the best way to grow a religion, and make it more radical.

I would imagine that is the reason that some religious people promote terrorism; in order to enhance their own power amongst their followers, not out of any particular belief that terrorism might bring their enemies to their knees

SC

You mean, some religious people promote terrorism so that they will get persecuted, and thereby gain more followers? Weird.

I think persecution is the best way to grow a religion, and make it more radical.

I would imagine that is the reason that some religious people promote terrorism; in order to enhance their own power amongst their followers, not out of any particular belief that terrorism might bring their enemies to their knees

SC

You mean, some religious people promote terrorism so that they will get persecuted, and thereby gain more followers? Weird.

Correct. By creating a jihad, and then having the other side join in the jihad, the jihadees gain more followers, and more power within their followers. The same is probably true of the Western hawks that join in the jihad on the opposing side. Apart from ordinary people, everyone gains.

SC

Correct. By creating a jihad, and then having the other side join in the jihad, the jihadees gain more followers, and more power within their followers. The same is probably true of the Western hawks that join in the jihad on the opposing side. Apart from ordinary people, everyone gains.

SC

Too devious for me, SC, but I do like your last sentence.

Allegedly (not) from the Daily Mail. A couple of non-PC smileys:

-----------------------------------------

Muslims have gone on the rampage in Bradford , killing anyone who's English.

Police fear the death toll could be as high as 5.

They've had to cancel the panto 'Jack & the Beanstalk' in Birmingham , Bristol , Oldham, Bradford, Burnley, Leicester, Luton and London :

Apparently the giant couldn't smell any Englishmen.

Years ago it was suggested that, " An apple a day keeps the doctor away."

But since all the doctors are now Muslim, I've found that a bacon sandwich works a treat!

Riots in Bradford last month caused over £1 million worth of improvements