Remove The Democrats, Reds Told

[Skywalker69]

Democrats haven't won an election in 30 years. Maybe the Thai people's voice should be respected?????

Voice of partisans of a maoist roadmap? You think Thai people are stupid?

Yes, someone, maybe you.

[lungmi]

It's amazing how people have a short memory.

The junta was quite aware that a democratic election will return Thaksin in power, so they wrote a new constitution that will limit the power of the new government and make sure that the army will firmly stay in charge of the country. That was made very clear, candidly presented as a way to avoid the return of Thaksin. And people were clearly informed that if they don't accept the new constitution, there wouldn't be any democratic election in the foreseeable future.

Unfortunately at that time there was no organized citizen movement to stop a minority of thugs to derail democracy in Thailand. That's why we now have the "reds", to send a clear message to the PAD that this time it won't be as easy as in 2006 and 2008. All the current red's sabre rattling is a reminder for the PAD to stay within the limit of the law or there will be consequences.

Your vision of history. Im confused.

My confused brain reads your posting like this:

---

The junta was quite aware that a democratic election will return Thaksin in power as leader of a minority of thugs to derail democracy in Thailand .Thaksin failed. That's why we now have the "reds".

----

Someone to help me? I was never strong for irony.

Edited June 17, 2012 by lungmi

[letitbe]

I wish all thais were shown the killing fields films about pol pot, film of live in Zimbabwie and films on the Holocaust and concentration camps then maybe enough of them would see what possible dangers' lie ahead but then given a number of posters here are just as plain dumb ignorant I suppose it would not show that many.

I for one hope the Army will save Thailand again from itself and once and for all eradicate these red thugs. If this is allowed to continue for many more years one man Taksin will have succeeded like Mugabwie, Pol Pot Hitler and rest in destroying for decades this nation.

[lannarebirth]

Democrats haven't won an election in 30 years. Maybe the Thai people's voice should be respected?????

Why must the Democrats be eradicated if they can't win an election? The PTP would seem to find simply the existence of Democrats a menacing threat to themselves. That's a sobering revelation.

Edited June 17, 2012 by lannarebirth

[JurgenG]

And people were clearly informed that if they don't accept the new constitution, there wouldn't be any democratic election in the foreseeable future.

Pure unadulterated BS.

Really ? Do you know that the Junta passed a law to threaten with harsh punishment people who campaign against the constitution ? Very democratic indeed.

And that among other niceties the constitution gave amnesty to the coup leaders.

The difference between now and then is that now there is no law to restrict the freedom of expression

If I understand correctly, you're dividing Thailand into Red Shirts (people) vs Everyone else. Any other political party that do not support the Red shirts are therefore, part of the military junta correct?

Sorry, I'm dividing Thailand between people who supported the coup and those who opposed the coup

Anyway, what is your point exactly ?

[lannarebirth]

I wish all thais were shown the killing fields films about pol pot, film of live in Zimbabwie and films on the Holocaust and concentration camps then maybe enough of them would see what possible dangers' lie ahead but then given a number of posters here are just as plain dumb ignorant I suppose it would not show that many.

I for one hope the Army will save Thailand again from itself and once and for all eradicate these red thugs. If this is allowed to continue for many more years one man Taksin will have succeeded like Mugabwie, Pol Pot Hitler and rest in destroying for decades this nation.

Two person who defeated evil, Hun Sen and Aung San Suu Kyi, are actually closer to the current government than to the opposition. What does that tell you ?

Hun Sen? Are you trolling?

Here's what Human Rights Watch has to say about him:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/01/opinion/10000-days-of-hun-sen.html

[KKvampire]

I wish all thais were shown the killing fields films about pol pot, film of live in Zimbabwie and films on the Holocaust and concentration camps then maybe enough of them would see what possible dangers' lie ahead but then given a number of posters here are just as plain dumb ignorant I suppose it would not show that many.

I for one hope the Army will save Thailand again from itself and once and for all eradicate these red thugs. If this is allowed to continue for many more years one man Taksin will have succeeded like Mugabwie, Pol Pot Hitler and rest in destroying for decades this nation.

Two person who defeated evil, Hun Sen and Aung San Suu Kyi, are actually closer to the current government than to the opposition. What does that tell you ?

um... Hun Sen is the Prime minister of a neighbouring country so he would be closer to a government, and Aung San closer? in what respect, You do make the most inane points

[letitbe]

I wish all thais were shown the killing fields films about pol pot, film of live in Zimbabwie and films on the Holocaust and concentration camps then maybe enough of them would see what possible dangers' lie ahead but then given a number of posters here are just as plain dumb ignorant I suppose it would not show that many.

I for one hope the Army will save Thailand again from itself and once and for all eradicate these red thugs. If this is allowed to continue for many more years one man Taksin will have succeeded like Mugabwie, Pol Pot Hitler and rest in destroying for decades this nation.

Two person who defeated evil, Hun Sen and Aung San Suu Kyi, are actually closer to the current government than to the opposition. What does that tell you ?

I wish all thais were shown the killing fields films about pol pot, film of live in Zimbabwie and films on the Holocaust and concentration camps then maybe enough of them would see what possible dangers' lie ahead but then given a number of posters here are just as plain dumb ignorant I suppose it would not show that many.

I for one hope the Army will save Thailand again from itself and once and for all eradicate these red thugs. If this is allowed to continue for many more years one man Taksin will have succeeded like Mugabwie, Pol Pot Hitler and rest in destroying for decades this nation.

Two person who defeated evil, Hun Sen and Aung San Suu Kyi, are actually closer to the current government than to the opposition. What does that tell you ?

nothing their are many in Burma who se her as just one of hiso and no liberator at all and even if that was not true it just makes her as gullible as you and the rest. Further where does your assertion come from or just plain made up or are you referring to politics when even good people have to sup with devil sometimes. You are sorry totally naive and probably very young. When you get to my age you might have seen some sense. I was a communist in my youth and even supported and helped the anti fascist's in Spain while Franco ruled or anti Zar people in Iran but over the years having seen people like Taksin and red thirt thugs in action over last 65 years recognise pure evil and greed for what it is.

[Buchholz]

A mixture of violence, terror and political indoctrination is being foisted upon a group of people who have no idea of what the consequences of their actions might be.

That's exactly what a number of us was saying early 2006.

Where were you saying this?

.

[h90]

It's amazing how people have a short memory.

The junta was quite aware that a democratic election will return Thaksin in power, so they wrote a new constitution that will limit the power of the new government and make sure that the army will firmly stay in charge of the country. That was made very clear, candidly presented as a way to avoid the return of Thaksin. And people were clearly informed that if they don't accept the new constitution, there wouldn't be any democratic election in the foreseeable future.

Unfortunately at that time there was no organized citizen movement to stop a minority of thugs to derail democracy in Thailand. That's why we now have the "reds", to send a clear message to the PAD that this time it won't be as easy as in 2006 and 2008. All the current red's sabre rattling is a reminder for the PAD to stay within the limit of the law or there will be consequences.

The constitution limits the power of every government, it did the same to the Abhisit government and it didn't give the army any power.

And the best proof is that PPP got the government and would have be in government for the full term if they wouldn't break several laws AND the coalition partners changed side.

In 2006 and 2008 the PAD only came out because the government broke several laws. Easiest to prevent PAD demonstrations is not braking laws.

The reds shot already enough grenades on the PAD that everyone is impressed how less the care about murdering some people.

[hellodolly]

Democrats haven't won an election in 30 years. Maybe the Thai people's voice should be respected?????

Are you saying the Thai people voted for promises they knew were false. You ared either not very up on what the PT is trying to do or you are a troll. Either way a waste of time.

Just for your information the Thai people do not want Thaksin that is why 52% of them voted against him they are the Thai people. Not you and your kind who wish to destroy what little resemblance Thailand has to democracy.

[hellodolly]

JurgeonG

if you are so familiar with Cambodia recent history why do you want to give one man the same power in Thailand?

[metisdead]

Off topic posts have been removed.

[473geo]

Please inform us the changes to the previous constitution that you find objectionable. IMHO there are none except the coup amnesty clause, and the only objection is to the proposers rather than the document itself.

Which makes the argument that the proposers were bad because of the document circular, invalid and weaker than fizzy drink.

Well said Mick, no need to fuss about a little amnesty clause........

So lets get the current constitutional bill passed passed, after all the amnesty clause for some silly reason appears to be the only major obstacle.....

[rixalex]

Pure unadulterated BS.

Really ? Do you know that the Junta passed a law to threaten with harsh punishment people who campaign against the constitution ? Very democratic indeed.

That rather depends on how "campaigning" that was not permitted was defined.

And that among other niceties the constitution gave amnesty to the coup leaders.

The difference between now and then is that now there is no law to restrict the freedom of expression

None of that goes any way to substantiating this nonsense:

And people were clearly informed that if they don't accept the new constitution, there wouldn't be any democratic election in the foreseeable future.

[rixalex]

Please inform us the changes to the previous constitution that you find objectionable. IMHO there are none except the coup amnesty clause, and the only objection is to the proposers rather than the document itself.

Which makes the argument that the proposers were bad because of the document circular, invalid and weaker than fizzy drink.

Well said Mick, no need to fuss about a little amnesty clause........

So lets get the current constitutional bill passed passed, after all the amnesty clause for some silly reason appears to be the only major obstacle.....

Nobody did fuss about that amnesty clause in the constitution of 2007 until years later when your square faced friend told certain people on his payroll that it would be a good idea if they expressed delayed mock outrage about it, as it would provide a good fake smokescreen for what he was actually upset about.

[lannarebirth]

Please inform us the changes to the previous constitution that you find objectionable. IMHO there are none except the coup amnesty clause, and the only objection is to the proposers rather than the document itself.

Which makes the argument that the proposers were bad because of the document circular, invalid and weaker than fizzy drink.

Well said Mick, no need to fuss about a little amnesty clause........

So lets get the current constitutional bill passed passed, after all the amnesty clause for some silly reason appears to be the only major obstacle.....

Nobody did fuss about that amnesty clause in the constitution of 2007 until years later when your square faced friend told certain people on his payroll that it would be a good idea if they expressed delayed mock outrage about it, as it would provide a good fake smokescreen for what he was actually upset about.

Can we all agree that a good reconcilliation bill rather than extending more amnesties might withdraw some amnesties previously given. If those really were what setting Bangkok on fire and pitting Thai against Thai was all about then let's sacrifice the generals and they can go in the same cell block with Thaksin and his kin.

Edited June 17, 2012 by lannarebirth

[rixalex]

Can we all agree that a good reconcilliation bill rather than extending more amnesties might withdraw some amnesties previously given. If those really were what setting Bangkok on fire and pitting Thai against Thai then let's sacrifice the generals and they can go in the same cell block with Thaksin and his kin.

Sondhi and Thaksin seem pretty tight these days so i can see that arrangement working. Pictures in my mind of Ronnie Barker and Richard Beckinsale.

[phiphidon]

Even Wiki will give you a taster of the restrictions imposed on the juntas referendum, further reading recommended though.

The circumstances and nature of the referendum weren't perfect, but people were still free to vote in whatever way they wished once in the ballot box. To deny the outcome of the vote and declare it invalid on the basis of certain restrictions is little different from denying the outcome of the general election and declaring it invalid on the basis that PTP broke electoral law... and i don't see you doing that.

Even Abhisit said when approving the 2007 constitution that the choice was take it or the junta will choose a constitution of their choosing.

What he said was that an old constitution was be revised, but he didn't say that it would be forced on the people or that there would no be a referendum.

If the PTP broke electoral law I suspect we would have heard of it by now, it being 11 months after the event so your "comparison" is invalid let alone being anything remotely similar to the "certain restrictions" placed on the "referendum" by the junta - a ridiculous comparison.

Did I say anything about there being no referendum for the Junta constitution "part 2" - No. Was I correcting the posters statement that there would be no referendum for this latest charter amendment- Yes.

So your reply was of little use except muddying the water.

[nurofiend]

"Remove the democrats". Or why not just "remove democracy". Instead show allegiance to Thaksin and his whole family most of whom are already in high office politics and business, accept our future leader son of Thaksin, the male heir of our illustrious Leader. There is no need for democratic debate or dissent. Our supreme leader would never sell us out to any other world power, is a true patriotic Thai even though he and his sister are third generation Chinese, the red imagery, agrarian revolution speeches and big demagogue photos of Thaksin everywhere are just a coincidence and are nothing to do with Maoism at all. There will be no forced labour camps under Thaksin's familial oligarchy police-state. Be sure that redmob will never arrest people for dissenting, or hand out home addresses of dissenters to their bootboys. Admire Thaksin for his courage even though he ran away from a short comfortable jail-term. Trust him even though he stole billions from the Thai State and therefor from Thailand's poorest.

Redmob don't want Democrats, democratic debate nor accountability, or even democracy itself. They want autocratic rule. Redmob leadership is the chrysalis of a future tyranny.

honestly, the amount of hyperbolic crap in that statement astounds me.

[473geo]

Please inform us the changes to the previous constitution that you find objectionable. IMHO there are none except the coup amnesty clause, and the only objection is to the proposers rather than the document itself.

Which makes the argument that the proposers were bad because of the document circular, invalid and weaker than fizzy drink.

Well said Mick, no need to fuss about a little amnesty clause........

So lets get the current constitutional bill passed passed, after all the amnesty clause for some silly reason appears to be the only major obstacle.....

Nobody did fuss about that amnesty clause in the constitution of 2007 until years later when your square faced friend told certain people on his payroll that it would be a good idea if they expressed delayed mock outrage about it, as it would provide a good fake smokescreen for what he was actually upset about.

Can we all agree that a good reconcilliation bill rather than extending more amnesties might withdraw some amnesties previously given. If those really were what setting Bangkok on fire and pitting Thai against Thai then let's sacrifice the generals and they can go in the same cell block with Thaksin and his kin.

Well, perhaps your comment touches on an underlying reason for the coup? and maybe some may learn to appreciate that to tar, feather, and send one man on the lonely walk to the political gallows was rather convenient......and maybe, just maybe, this is why it did not work

[lannarebirth]

Well said Mick, no need to fuss about a little amnesty clause........

So lets get the current constitutional bill passed passed, after all the amnesty clause for some silly reason appears to be the only major obstacle.....

Nobody did fuss about that amnesty clause in the constitution of 2007 until years later when your square faced friend told certain people on his payroll that it would be a good idea if they expressed delayed mock outrage about it, as it would provide a good fake smokescreen for what he was actually upset about.

Can we all agree that a good reconcilliation bill rather than extending more amnesties might withdraw some amnesties previously given. If those really were what setting Bangkok on fire and pitting Thai against Thai then let's sacrifice the generals and they can go in the same cell block with Thaksin and his kin.

Well, perhaps your comment touches on an underlying reason for the coup? and maybe some may learn to appreciate that to tar, feather, and send one man on the lonely walk to the political gallows was rather convenient......and maybe, just maybe, this is why it did not work

What a bunch of hooey. Do you even believe what you're saying? And if you do, more the pity.

[rixalex]

If the PTP broke electoral law I suspect we would have heard of it by now,

Of course we heard it. Those of us here saw it. Widespread vote buying going on. Not only PTP of course, but if they all do it, doesn't mean it is no longer against electoral law.

Electoral law also forbids political involvement from those banned from politics.

I think it's fairly obvious to most that electoral laws of one kind or another were broken - has there ever been an election in which that wasn't the case in Thailand? - but because PTP did have genuine popularity, and because the reds have shown what they are capable of when they perceive that the law is against them, no action was taken. Just as no legal action was taken with regards the referendum and its legitimacy.

My point being, either you accept the referendum results on the constitution in 2007, and the results of the general election, as neither of them were blemish free, or you refuse the legitimacy of both.

What you are attempting is to cherry pick when we observe the "people's choice" and when we don't, according to what suits your cause.

[473geo]

Please inform us the changes to the previous constitution that you find objectionable. IMHO there are none except the coup amnesty clause, and the only objection is to the proposers rather than the document itself.

Which makes the argument that the proposers were bad because of the document circular, invalid and weaker than fizzy drink.

Well said Mick, no need to fuss about a little amnesty clause........

So lets get the current constitutional bill passed passed, after all the amnesty clause for some silly reason appears to be the only major obstacle.....

Nobody did fuss about that amnesty clause in the constitution of 2007 until years later when your square faced friend told certain people on his payroll that it would be a good idea if they expressed delayed mock outrage about it, as it would provide a good fake smokescreen for what he was actually upset about.

So why fuss now if amnesty is no big deal, either you agree it was a major self serving action....or you carry the rather obvious disability of double standards

[rixalex]

Please inform us the changes to the previous constitution that you find objectionable. IMHO there are none except the coup amnesty clause, and the only objection is to the proposers rather than the document itself.

Which makes the argument that the proposers were bad because of the document circular, invalid and weaker than fizzy drink.

Well said Mick, no need to fuss about a little amnesty clause........

So lets get the current constitutional bill passed passed, after all the amnesty clause for some silly reason appears to be the only major obstacle.....

Nobody did fuss about that amnesty clause in the constitution of 2007 until years later when your square faced friend told certain people on his payroll that it would be a good idea if they expressed delayed mock outrage about it, as it would provide a good fake smokescreen for what he was actually upset about.

So why fuss now if amnesty is no big deal, either you agree it was a major self serving action....or you carry the rather obvious disability of double standards

It's not me making the "fuss", it is the Thai people, and in the case of the referendum in 2007 and the amnesty that it included, they made no fuss until years later, but in the current case, the reaction has been immediate. Suggests to me that current feelings are more spontaneous and genuine.

Of course i do agree however that if you are against amnesties, you are against them all - or at least should be. So rather than continue the cycle of them, why not stop awarding them, and set up enquiries for ones past. That is surely a better way forward than the one currently being promoted of "well they did it, so why can't we?", that you seem to line yourself behind.

[473geo]

Well, perhaps your comment touches on an underlying reason for the coup? and maybe some may learn to appreciate that to tar, feather, and send one man on the lonely walk to the political gallows was rather convenient......and maybe, just maybe, this is why it did not work

What a bunch of hooey. Do you even believe what you're saying? And if you do, more the pity.

Ah yes that'll be right because you say so....sure they wanted Thaksin out, but you deny the amnesty was not a welcome bonus?.....I do not believe it was a sudden 'unexpected bonus'.........but you apparently do..... .

Edited June 17, 2012 by 473geo

[phiphidon]

In drafting the new constitution, the assembly is required to hear opinions from people in all regions.

However, the amendment prohibits changing the political system from a constitutional monarchy. It also prohibits changing the form of the state from a single state, and prohibits changing any clause in the chapter on the monarchy in the current Constitution.

The Election Commission will be required to hold a national referendum on the CDA's new charter within 60 days after it receives the draft passed on by the Parliament President.

However, the EC must leave at least 45 days before holding the referendum as time to promote the ballot and publicising the charter draft. This must be done within 60 days but not before 45 days after the EC receives the draft.

http://www.nationmul...d-30181992.html

For the benefit of those passing on misinformation about the constitution amendment bill. - phiphidon

I'll agree that claiming the constitution amendment bill was to overthrow the monarchy was dirty and a bit far-fetched. They had to invoke the clause because the government was playing dirty by trying to whitewash all wrong doings. If the government really wanted to amend the constitution for the good of the people, all they had to do was take out the whitewashing part. Whitewashing crimes including murder and corruption (don't know what corruption has to do with reconciliation) is not a good model of good governance.

EDIT: Wish I knew how to work this quote system.

You're mixing up the constitution amendment bill and the 4 other "reconcilliation bills". The constitution amendment bill is not to "whitewash" anything. It is to amend article 291 so that a CDA can be set up to write a new charter. I agree with you about the whitewashing crimes part.

However, I do want to see a full reckoning for the events of last year and not let this be yet another sweeping under the carpet of crimes.

Unfortunately we've already seen how this is going to go with the first inquest of a taxi driver requesting key Army witnesses to make statements at court not showing up as they had 'important business' to attend to - in addition the army had made an urgent request to move the inquest to a military court!

[Thaddeus]

"Remove the democrats". Or why not just "remove democracy". Instead show allegiance to Thaksin and his whole family most of whom are already in high office politics and business, accept our future leader son of Thaksin, the male heir of our illustrious Leader. There is no need for democratic debate or dissent. Our supreme leader would never sell us out to any other world power, is a true patriotic Thai even though he and his sister are third generation Chinese, the red imagery, agrarian revolution speeches and big demagogue photos of Thaksin everywhere are just a coincidence and are nothing to do with Maoism at all. There will be no forced labour camps under Thaksin's familial oligarchy police-state. Be sure that redmob will never arrest people for dissenting, or hand out home addresses of dissenters to their bootboys. Admire Thaksin for his courage even though he ran away from a short comfortable jail-term. Trust him even though he stole billions from the Thai State and therefor from Thailand's poorest.

Redmob don't want Democrats, democratic debate nor accountability, or even democracy itself. They want autocratic rule. Redmob leadership is the chrysalis of a future tyranny.

honestly, the amount of hyperbolic crap in that statement astounds me.

Of course it astounds you, roses aren't always red, and daffodils are not necessarily yellow.

[Thaddeus]

However, I do want to see a full reckoning for the events of last year and not let this be yet another sweeping under the carpet of crimes.

Do you want that, that is your goal is it?

How about the crimes that have occurred over the last decade, shall we just nullify them in favour of your goal, you can take off the rubber mask now.

[ThaiOats]

Listening to Jatuporn's speech now... utter BS. He said "at first there were 91 corpses, then there were 98.. we're only missing 2 more to make it 100, Suthep's and Abhisit's" within the first 5 minutes of his speech. Already let's get the blood boiling to kill. It's also funny how during Nattawut's speech, Nattawut said "dam_n Democrats don't know how to look at the weather and arrange a rally, the rain flushed them out" and when Jatuporn goes on stage, it was raining hard core to which he reasons "the dam_n Democrats have drenched us with their spit". Bravo, awesome speeches guys from MPs and ex-MPs, keep em coming.

Edited June 17, 2012 by ThaiOats