Can Coming To Thailand Make You Bisexual?

moto77 · August 20, 2012

They must be bisexual then.

Must they be? How can they be if they're not into guys.

Maybe you can come up with some examples of true bisexuals who do ladyboys, men and women.

Ladyboys ARE guys, tropo. Sigh...

SimonD · August 20, 2012

Maybe you can come up with some examples of true bisexuals who do ladyboys, men and women.

That is just being greedy, and would make you trisexual

Omnisexual?

I can't believe I just replied to this thread. Note to self: must get out more...

moto77 · August 20, 2012

Ladyboys are boys, they have nothing feminine, nothing a woman has.

Guys being sexually attracted to ladyboys are either gay or bisexual. Simple as that, and nothing to be ashamed of.

You must be either legally blind or you've never been to Thailand.

Well said, Tropo!

Just my two cents here: A very good friend of mine whom I know for decades is into girls AND ladyboys, but absolutely hates the idea of having sex with a man. He really gets angry if anyone calls him "gay" and he absolutely avoids go-go bars where gay boys dance!

Puzzled as I was he tried to describe that ladyboy thing to me - and even though I find it hard to swallow, he said something like this: The attractive outer female appearance, choice of clothing and the mostly exaggerated female behaviour and often much better [better than a girl's] body shape combined with the "little surprize" and a ladyboys much better general understanding of what men really want just arouses him... This explanation might sound "stiff" because it is to be used in this forum and should not offend anyone, but I can't really find other words since his version was more "graphic" if you know what I mean...

In our many years of friendship, we have been out together to party the night away countless times while at times he opted for girls and at other days went for a "Kathoey" (ladyboy). What I can say clearly here is that he is definitely not gay and I really doubt that he would agree if anyone calls him bisexual.

I believe that the official word for lovers of this third gender (transsexual) yet needs to be invented. Homosexual and Bisexual won't work. Perhaps some forum members can help...

They've invented it. It's called "closeted gay". Sorry, closeted bisexual... little surprise... lol

Edited August 20, 2012 by moto77

f0xxee · August 20, 2012

So many men here trying to justify their sexual orientation. Too funny.

Coming to Thailand may not make you a bisexual, but as evidenced by this thread, it confuses you as to just what your sexual orientation is.

Getting back to basics, if a "person" has a Y chromosome, it's a male human. Doesn't matter if it's wearing a frock, has fake tits and has had it's junk removed, it's still a bloke.

So, if a male dresses up and acts like a female and so completely fools another "straight" guy that he gets the hots for the former, would you define the fooled guy as a homosexual just because he got attracted to a person with a Y chromosome ??

All this analysis misses the basic point that sexual orientation is all in the mind and the psyche. If a person is getting attracted by the feminine characteristics of the LB it is not a homosexual thing at all (not that being homosexual is a thing to be abhorred or be frightened of).

I will not pretend to understand different people's sexual proclivity or what games they play in their little heads to justify their behavior. All I am pointing out is that a man is a man is a man. No more, no less. If someone is attracted to a pipe fitter that has a 5 o'clock shadow, but is wearing a frock and tucks his junk away, then more power to them.

In your example, the "straight" guy was under the impression that he was indeed interested in a female based on the outward appearance. At the time he finds out that the she is actually a he, then that's where he has to do some soul searching to either move forward with a liaison or go to the bog and throw up...

I have noticed that an overwhelming number of LB patrons do tend to be the muscled-up farang with chips on their shoulders, which has always made me curious.

"Muscled up Falangs with chips on their shoulders"?

Where are you making you canny observations from? Walking Street? Bangla Road? Soi Nana? Manchester?

You are so far from having even the vaguest clue of what you are talking about.

I am not one to do the sex tourist thing, as stated in previous posts, I live in TH am in an LTR with a Ladyboy and have been for a long time.

However perhaps if you were to go to any of the 5 big ladyboy bars around Soi Nana on any night, you would find that ladyboy lovers tend to be in the middle aged and older bracket, a large smattering of Japanese and Koreans, and really the most average Joe Punters from around the world you ever expect to meet. I think you are thinking of gay culture, where there is for sure a "beautiful body" cachet.

As for your comment about "Someone being attracted to a Pipe-fitter with a 5 O'clock shadow"... again... you either have no concept of how truly beautiful some ladyboys are, or you are being extreme to try to make a point which is not particularly worth making.

Jingthing · August 20, 2012

They've invented it. It's called "closeted gay". Sorry, closeted bisexual... little surprise... lol

You're wrong. A closeted gay man likes MEN. But is closeted. A ladyboy isn't the kind of man that most gay men like, closeted or not. Please stop confusing the concepts.

tropo · August 20, 2012

They must be bisexual then.

Must they be? How can they be if they're not into guys.

Maybe you can come up with some examples of true bisexuals who do ladyboys, men and women.

Ladyboys ARE guys, tropo. Sigh...

That record is broken - dump it already.

tropo · August 20, 2012

It doesn't matter how "pretty" a man is, I still wouldn't be interested. Honestly, 0% interested.

I'm pretty sure you would have been 100% interested until she started singing in a deep voice. Another woman in the video series (check out episode 1) entered and won many female beauty pageants. She was eventually outed, and got charged by the police.

If I knew she was a female, or I thought she was, you may be right. If I knew he was a male, or thought he was, not a chance.

You're only saying that because you're probably homophobic, and the thought of being attracted to a very attractive ladyboy frightens the hell out of you.

The point is that there are many ladyboys in your midst that you don't know are ladyboys. Everyone in that audience thought she was female. Try the guessing game I posted above - or are you afraid to lest you find out that you're attracted to a "man"?

endure · August 20, 2012

Who says that a Ladyboy is a Gay?

What do you call a female brain in a male body?

Or a male brain in a female body?

Would these be the true Gays?

Not those who choose it for fashion!

Ladyboys are gay because they have a female brain in a male body.

A male brain in a female body is a lesbian.

Fashion has nothing to do with it.

Here's a gay bloke. What kind of brain do you think he's got in his body?

NanaFoods · August 21, 2012

If bisexual is the wrong term, then if:

[1] heterosexual - attracted to a member of the opposite sex.

[2] homosexual - attracted to ones own sex

[3] bisexual - attracted to both sexes

is there a term for a man that is attracted to both women and ladyboys (knowing full well that they are in fact genetically men) ?

A friend asked me this a couple of days back

According to South Park, there may be a term for that.... "bi-curious"

catweazle · August 21, 2012

if you want to sleep with a lady boy, who in fact is a man you are gay,

SIMPLE

@pigeonjake:

denial can be a terrible thing, ignorance as well - your comment is a slap in the face to all who tried to explain the difference, grey zone and implications of this topic.

Greer · August 21, 2012

Jeez, what an interesting question ...'Can coming to Thailand make you bisexual'... I put this in the same basket as .... 'Can coming to Africa make you a negro'.

No thats a stupid analogy,how can you turn black by going to Africa ? read the question ,i never knew him to be attracted to anyone but women in 20 odd years and i doubt if he had even seen a transexuall ,but after seeing them has he become bisexual? i never saw him take any interest in the gay men here.

No its not - a persons sexuality is hard wired in their genes (ok - stop laughing, I'm serious) - the point being that you can no-more "turn" bisexual, than you can "turn" black - the person you are is built in, not glued on depending where you happen to be.

Jingthing · August 21, 2012

Actually, forgetting the genetic theories which are works in progress, strong scientific evidence shows that males are indeed hard wired to their sexual orientation at a young age, while females are MUCH more flexible. This accounts for the phenom of "college lesbians" where most of them five years later are with a man.

krisb · August 21, 2012

This is just a gay argument.

Jingthing · August 21, 2012

This is just a gay argument.

That's supposed to be an insult?

WinnieTheKhwai · August 21, 2012

I think so far we have had one first-hand explanation (by f0xxee), which isn't a lot considering we're on page 20. I had to dig a little, but here is one more:

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Katoeys? What is the attraction? Lots...

Personally, I find the whole thing both fascinating, amusing, and occasionally pathetic....once in a while, tragic. In all, it's a completely new dimension for me after 40 years of being totally "straight"...totally married and totally happy with this.

I have never had any aversion to gay men or women...I emerged via an Arts education and got to know many guys who were actors, painters or dancers. Mostly, you would never know they were gay. Very few were effeminate or had camp affectations. I have never felt threatened by them or been awkward in the presence of anyone whose sexual orientation differed from mine (on the other hand...I have never knowingly been in the company of a paeodophile...I would NOT be happy with this one...)

I say this to stress that I am comfortable with my own sexuality. I have experimented with men at one period a long time ago and got nothing from it. I didn't like the hair and the bristles...I also like my partners soft and cuddly!

Katoeys? Well, I guess it's the whole package. ....the image, the effort in maintaining it...if someone has CHOSEN to be "female", then they are going to be the BEST female they can. Sure...this is sometimes OTT...but then I have this choice. To go with OTT or to look at another softer one...The most convincingly female katoey (and i mean in personality

rather than flamboyancy) was good old Mot (from Bangkok Nights, last year) I had know her a month (without going with her) before I put 2 and 2 together. Soft, gentle, graceful, humorous, and with a complete lack of affectation. Qualities that I have rarely found in this combination in real women...

Plus there is another aspect...a directly sexual one. Sometimes I am content to just fool around without penetration. Sometimes it's more fun like this...depends entirely on the situation. Katoeys are MUCH more easy about doing all this than most of the women i have been with. Most women have clear expectations about the process....it's very much a linear progression from foreplay to intercourse. Every time for me now at the age of 48 is quite different.

I am extremely excited by the visual aspects of sex. I am to some degree a fetishist in this respect. The skin-tight lycra and leather, the tiny g-strings, aspects of exhibitionism...all add to what I am hooked into. The "sweet-little-girl-next-door" image leaves me cold. Not my thing.

I have a friend here called Marcos. I have another friend here by the name of Deng. Both appear to be men. Marcos is a tough looking German. Deng is a soft-looking Thai. The last time that I saw Deng, he had tits and a

dress. This time I didn't recognize the gentle man in the tie. He has had two wives, and three children. Now, he seems to be gay, in the sense that he prefers men, although he likes women also. One thing he says stays in my mind. "I was in Bangkok at the time I didn't know who I was."

" I DIDN'T KNOW WHO I WAS."

I wonder how many of us DO.

He was talking about his sexuality.

Another thing he said... " I don't think of myself as a man, or as a woman, or as a katoey. I am ALL these things. Sometimes one, sometimes another."

Man, woman, bisexual, straight, gay,... What on EARTH are these divisions? I don't consider myself gay at all. I am not sexually attracted to men... I AM sexually attracted to women... Yet I like the feel of a penis. WHAT does that make ME? (there are NO prizes for answering that one...)

Let's be a little more specific here. I AM attracted to "men" if they look like women. I'm not attracted if they looked like men! The more like ponder on this the more I'm convinced the largest component in all this is social conditioning. In my head I know I'm uncomfortable with the idea of sex with a man. If the man looks like a woman, then I can be

relaxed about it. In an objective sense, there is no physical difference in the process of touching a penis and that of touching a breast. Thedifference is in the PERCEPTION of these activities... Psychologically we all provided with a direction long before sexual maturity is reached. Western society exclusively produces the "family"... mail and female

stereotypes... In literature, school, religion, Christianity, the media. It goes further. It even advocates and promotes a certain type...

Particular qualities... as being both desirable, and also the Norm.

However, when you visit a society where it is the norm for sexuality to be a variable factor, where it is acceptable to have partners of your own sex, or where it is commonplace for men to dress as, and emulate women, then definitions become both blurred and arbitrary, and you are left only with your own sense of what is proper or improper. In other

words WITHOUT SOCIETY TO REINFORCE YOUR ORIENTATION, TO DEFINE IT, your own hidden inclinations become more pronounced.

I guess that's why I want my "women" to look like "women"!!

Have fun!

Bilbo

----

Original was posted over 10 years ago as:

Subject: RE katoeys: some musings.

*****removed*****

Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 22:54:12 PST

Edited very slightly in places to keep it within forum rules.

Edited August 21, 2012 by cdnvic
removed email address

minikev · August 21, 2012

The answer to the original question is easy!

We don't have to go deeply into what sexual gender a ladyboy is or if they are gay or lesbian or anything else.

Your friend sounds like a person who likes sex.

beautiful ladyboys are not available at home so if he had any interest he couldn't find one.

He probably just wanted to explore and then found it enjoyable and so did it again, back home they won't be available again and he will probably go on enjoying sex with women.

In answer to the post saying anyone straying ito their own gender sex is a deviant as we are only here to reproduce I think you have forgot that we also go fishing or play football or many other things that can be done purely and simply for FUN.

Svengoolie · August 21, 2012

BTW, as far as I know, there were no STD's in Ancient Greek times, certainly no syphillis or HIV/ AIDS

I think you are correct.

Far from correct.

chlamydia and gonorrhea have been around since ancient times (The Bible actually refers to a disease that causes vaginal discharges) Julius Caesar quite possibly had it as he shagged Nicomedes the king of Bythinia and just about every other woman in Rome that caught his fancy. I believe it was Seutonius who wrote that he infected Roman Senators wives. Actually, gonorrhoea was referred to by the Ancient Egyptians as well.

Edited August 21, 2012 by Svengoolie

Svengoolie · August 21, 2012

I just called my (gay) friend back in the States and he agrees: If he has a penis and you're attracted, you're gay. (He wasn't sure about the post-op thing though, and neither am I.)

Google Buck Angel...better yet, take a look.http://buckangelbodybuilding.com/

Buck angel is a Female to Male transsexual. A man with a Vagina. So if you slept with Buck angel, even though he has a vajayjay, you would consider yourself straight?

Simply put, transgenderism redifines gender roles and sexuality. Regardless of what you gay "friend" says. Most LB fans are not attracted to men or masculinity, but will shag the living hell out of a hot LB if the mood strikes them. Basically because they are hyper-feminine. A lot, and I mean a LOT of guys go with them on the sly, or there would not be so many bars for them in LOS. The top earning bars at Nana are the LB bars.

Edited August 21, 2012 by Svengoolie

Svengoolie · August 21, 2012

It is true LBs are treated very poorly by Thai society. They are expected to work in a VERY LIMITED range of professions, including criminal ones. It is really tragic for the LBs and for Thailand. Think of the talent that is lost that way. Of course some strong willed LBs especially those with super supportive families (and often wealthier) manage to break the mold. But the pressure is strong to know their place.

What "talents" do LBs have outside the red light scene?

They are mentally unstable and Thais know that. I sometimes see some work at 7/11 and such.

Ummm....like running for political office, and being a self-made millionaire?

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/asia-pacific/thailand/120525/transgender-candidate-yollada-nok-suanyot-politics-elections

bendejo · August 21, 2012

This thread may have the silliest title yet.

A more plausible question would be "Can Coming to Thailand make You an Alcoholic?" I think we've all seen the answer to that.

I don't care what people do with each other as long as both are adults and consenting. But man-man sex is gay sex, no matter how it's presented. I never understood this concept that a 'straight' man can get serviced by another man and still consider himself exclusively heterosexual. "No, it's the one performing the act that's gay!" Umm, well, it's the 'straight' guy who is getting aroused by another man, no? It is what it is.

> What "talents" do LBs have outside the red light scene?

All possess a natural talent for fashion design, interior decorating and hair styling.

(WARNING: the previous line contains sarcasm)

Edited August 21, 2012 by bendejo

WinnieTheKhwai · August 21, 2012

Buck angel is a Female to Male transsexual. A man with a Vagina. So if you slept with Buck angel, even though he has a vajayjay, you would consider yourself straight?

Yes, of course. I'm am more an more convinced by the gay-sayers. Actually, I think it if you're attracted to a woman with short hair, you're gay. If you like a girl who wears pants, you're gay. gay. gay. gay. gay.

If you're attracted to this girl with long hair, you'r straight:

After she cut her hair, you'd have to be pretty queer to fancy her.

Edited August 21, 2012 by WinnieTheKhwai

lostinisaan · August 21, 2012

Well, not much foreplay needed. They usually don't get pregnant, no "oil change" will stop any sexual activities...

I know many Thai girls having a problem that some of them are better looking than them.