Maggie Thatcher Is Dead.

[Jingthing]

Somehow I feel that neither the feminist movement nor Thatcher would ever lay claim to owing something to the other. Thatcher's philosophy was far more pragmatic...identify what needed to be done and get on with it, irrespective of whether you are black, brown, Jewish, Sikh, female or transgender! The key issue was execution, function not form.

That's debatable. I'll admit she's a very strange case.

“Well,” people say, in total earnestness, “she was a woman… in history… but I didn’t like the history that she made.”

Feminism does not much like Margaret Thatcher. And by some

well-publicized accounts, the feeling was mutual. “I hate feminism. It

is poison,” she reportedly told adviser Paul Johnson.

Margaret Thatcher didn’t believe in Women. She believed in Margaret

Thatcher. Assisting the Sisterhood did not rank on her list of

priorities. She wasn’t about rhetoric.

She even reportedly tried to change a line in a speech telling a Moses

figure to take his “pills,” not understanding that “tablets” and Moses

was a joke.

If you want proof that there is no Women’s Bloc of voters, just look at Twitter’s conversation about Margaret Thatcher today.

But in a strange way, that was the biggest feminist triumph of all.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/compost/wp/2013/04/08/margaret-thatcher-iron-lady-unusual-feminist-suspect/

Edited April 8, 2013 by Jingthing

[MAJIC]

She advanced feminism.

Actually Jingthing one of her famous quotes was: "I owe nothing to Feminism"But she did instruct Local Councils to put young pregnant girls to the top of the Council Housing lists,which resulted in thousands getting themselves pregnant,and claiming the Benefits. A seriously bad decision.

Yes but feminism owes something to her.

Only in as much as an example of what can be achieved. Other than my example above,I honestly can't think on any concrete gains directly benefitting Feminists. "I owe nothing to Feminism" is of course open to a certain amount of personal interpretation. To me it means I have made it on my own,so you do the same,and no favours from me.

[smokie36]

All I really remember was she using Scotland as a guinea-pig for that stupid poll-tax. That put me off her for good but RIP.

You need to read 7by7 excellent post No 82,this is a very good example why in fact the so-called poll tax was a good and fair tax. Unfortunately the parasites did not like it, they then got their own way,thus leading to the economic mess created by those scotsmen Blair and Brown.

Yes I well remember the demand for £350 dropping through my door. Only problem was my monthly salary at the time was £250.

Quite how I was supposed to pay this bill was a mystery to me. No way you could describe it as "fair". I lived alone and used little public services.

The rates system was fairer although not in any way perfect....what system is?

Bringing it into Scotland first was the nail in the coffin for the Tories in Scotland I am pleased to say.

[nontabury]

All I really remember was she using Scotland as a guinea-pig for that stupid poll-tax. That put me off her for good but RIP.

You need to read 7by7 excellent post No 82,this is a very good example why in fact the so-called poll tax was a good and fair tax. Unfortunately the parasites did not like it, they then got their own way,thus leading to the economic mess created by those scotsmen Blair and Brown.

Yes I well remember the demand for £350 dropping through my door. Only problem was my monthly salary at the time was £250.

Quite how I was supposed to pay this bill was a mystery to me. No way you could describe it as "fair". I lived alone and used little public services.

The rates system was fairer although not in any way perfect....what system is?

Bringing it into Scotland first was the nail in the coffin for the Tories in Scotland I am pleased to say.

An old bloke living alone near me,no amenities,no rubbish collection,could not afford to pay for his septic tank to be emptied(used the wood at the back,as his toilet)payed more than some households in the local town, yet in some instances they had many wage earners taking advantage of All the council services.The poll tax would have put that right,but no,rent a mob took to the streets.So much for democracy.

As you say,what system is ok. Will agree with you on one thing,they should not have just introduced it in Scotland,it should have been throughout the whole country.

[MAJIC]

Wilson gave the Unions the freedom to begin the destruction of British Industry, something he is reported to have threatened whilst still at university. Thatcher then continued his work by fighting the too powerful unions and killing of British industry at the same time.

So.. what you are saying is she should have let the unions have their way....??

In any case it was the unions who killed British Industry, left unchecked they would have seen workers paid too much for not enough work, British products would become uncompetitive forces huge job loses.

Don't blame a single person when it was the greedy unions and the even more greedy workers for killing their own golden goose.

totster

British goods did become uncompetitive - the ones that were still being produced.

As I wrote, Wilson started the rot by allowing the unions to muster too much power and Thatcher used that to kill industry whilst telling everyone that she was curbing union power.

Ye nothing to do with owners keeping all the profits no investments in new equipment no new products not keeping there eyes open that foreign companies were making better products the union's only bought a quicker end.

Look at the old car and motorbike industry that the UK had they sat back and let Japan take the lot.

I remember the Honda motor motorbike coming to the UK and then one of the Motorcycles magazines getting one and striping it down to nuts and bolts the engineer's comment was .It is built like a Swiss watch.

.The management in some companies were useless.

We dont have strong unions now to blame for the state of Europe and the USA now

Yes I also remember the first two Hondas to enter the Country: the Honda 50cc and 90 cc,by which time the writing was on the wall no new competitive models from British Manufacturers were even thought of,let alone in the process of manufacturer,that was nothing to do with Unions,more about short sighted management. As I recall the next Japanese import was the Honda Dream,which sealed the fate of our MC Industry.

[lannarebirth]

She advanced feminism.

Actually Jingthing one of her famous quotes was: "I owe nothing to Feminism"But she did instruct Local Councils to put young pregnant girls to the top of the Council Housing lists,which resulted in thousands getting themselves pregnant,and claiming the Benefits. A seriously bad decision.

Yes but feminism owes something to her.

Only in as much as an example of what can be achieved. Other than my example above,I honestly can't think on any concrete gains directly benefitting Feminists. "I owe nothing to Feminism" is of course open to a certain amount of personal interpretation. To me it means I have made it on my own,so you do the same,and no favours from me.

I think you make his point. If she has made it on her own why wouldn't others now believe that they could too. No Tory lover here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/style-blog/wp/2013/04/08/meryl-streep-on-margaret-thatcher/?Post+generic=%3Ftid%3Dsm_twitter_washingtonpost

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

Margaret Thatcher, the only true working class Prime Minister that Britain ever had. The embodiment of duty, industry and bravery. There will never be a finer person to grace that office.

[wooloomooloo]

Will agree with you on one thing,they should not have just introduced it in Scotland,it should have been throughout the whole country.

Is it just my imagination or was I served with Poll Tax bills or the Community Charge in south east London in the early nineties.

[MAJIC]

Having been around during the Thatcher yrs and suffered under her regime 8yrs out of work I can't say that I am sorry to read that she has passed away and I dont doubt that a lot of other people in my age bracket 50+ will feel the same way . !

I lost my job 3 times under Maggie's reign, I simply got off my arse and went and got another. The reason you were out of work for the 8 years was down to you not her.

RIP Maggie

Likewise I lost 3 jobs through lay offs and redundancys in one year.I also had a long while off work before I found another job,but not everyone were as lucky as you and I,some people lived in areas where jobs were very scarce or non existent,and employees having their money cut below the going rate.or employers realising Thatcher had made the situation in their favour to abuse employees and pay them peanuts and take it or leave it! a virtual slaves charter.

Who thought up the YOPS Scheme?come and work for a year on £30 a week and you could have a permanent job if you are a good boy.

Well the reality was they sacked them all after a year, and took on new victims.Try to claim your rights at work,according to your agreed contract with the company,and they would tell to F*** Off if you don't like it,constantly living in fear of losing your job,gagged,keep your head down, and don't answer back to the Foreman or Manager/Owner. Ahhhh! the happy days of Thatcherism only those that worked in Factories,Skilled Trades,Labouring,Manual Work,would know what i'm talking about,the rest are still spouting off the party line propaganda,from when they ran there own business,worked in Banks,Insurance and all the cosy office paper shuffing jobs.

[MAJIC]

RIP Maggie.

She did plenty of good and make quite a number of mistakes but I really can't understand those that wish to celebrate the death of a fellow human being.

Well, let's not be too idealistic (and hypocritical); just being a fellow human being doesn't merit anyone automatic regard or reverence or even respect on their passing - there have been plenty of people whose death can be seen as good news and while I personally find it sort of odd and creepy to celebrate a death, I wouldn't begrudge someone doing so for Mullah Omar or Pol Pot or Joe Stalin...now to put it in perspective, was Thatcher among that sort? I think not. But being a fellow human being doesn't give her any special protection from malice or spite - nor should it.

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No she wasn't as bad as you mention,however she was a buddy of Pinochet!

[wooloomooloo]

Who thought up the YOPS Scheme?come and work for a year on £30 a week and you could have a permanent job if you are a good boy.

£30, I'd have given my right arm for £30. I earned £26 per week on YOP. A complete waste of my time and the employers.

Who could blame the employers for taking advantage.

Saying that, I'm glad I didn't suffer at their hands for too long. Further, I don't blame Maggie as it could have been far worse.

[MAJIC]

Oddly or not the people really involved in the events, seem to have different opinions from those who seem to revel in her death, fine wine or not, FW de Klerk has just said "Although she [baroness Thatcher] was always a steadfast critic of apartheid, she had a much better grasp of the complexities and geo-strategic realities of South Africa than many of her contemporaries. ... more could be achieved through constructive engagement with the South African government than through draconian sanctions and isolation. She also understood the need to consider the concerns and aspirations of all South Africans in their search for constitutional consensus.

For this reason she was able to play a positive role in supporting our own process of non-racial constitutional transformation in South Africa. From my first meeting with her in London after my election as leader of the National Party in 1989 and throughout the rest of her tenure as Prime Minister, she gave strong and valued to support to me and to all other leaders who were working for a peaceful, prosperous, and constitutional future for South Africa."

But what does he know.

And her son and her friends were making good coin down there lest we forget.

Along with her son (Mark)doing Arms Deals in her presence while she was entertaining foreign,leaders. politicians,and dignitaries.

[Thailand1977]

All I really remember was she using Scotland as a guinea-pig for that stupid poll-tax. That put me off her for good but RIP.

You need to read 7by7 excellent post No 82,this is a very good example why in fact the so-called poll tax was a good and fair tax. Unfortunately the parasites did not like it, they then got their own way,thus leading to the economic mess created by those scotsmen Blair and Brown.

A land tax would be fairer, but the poll tax was a better option then council tax ... she must have been laughing her head off when the <deleted> rioters went for that one.

Blair just continued her work, but with a vile socialist twist to it.

[Mosha]

OK, I'll be nice. I'm going to raise a glass, I'm going to remember

-The young men resting in cemeteries over a pointless battle for some rocks off the coast of Argentina

-The young men of today, growing up in the Welsh valleys, all industry shut down, no work, nothing to live for, families lived like that since Thatcher, 79 or more suicides in a small community no longer reported in the media.

State funeral? Chuck her in a South Wales coal mine.

I am from South Wales ,the miners destroyed themselves ,making it cheaper to import coal from Australia ,than produce it at home , and don't get me started on the disaster that was the strike ,now Scargill never lost out did he? living the life of riley afterwards all paid for by the union .,the miners may not have liked her but us ordinary workers respected her .

I worked For I.C.I. at the time. We had our own coal fired steam plant. It was used to make electricity as a bonus. The steam was far more important. Electricity was exported to the grid. The miners turned up to picket the gates. It was pointed out that the coal stock pile was enough for 15 years at a low estimate. The muppets would not listen.

[Bluespunk]

All I really remember was she using Scotland as a guinea-pig for that stupid poll-tax. That put me off her for good but RIP.

You need to read 7by7 excellent post No 82,this is a very good example why in fact the so-called poll tax was a good and fair tax. Unfortunately the parasites did not like it, they then got their own way,thus leading to the economic mess created by those scotsmen Blair and Brown.

A land tax would be fairer, but the poll tax was a better option then council tax ... she must have been laughing her head off when the <deleted> rioters went for that one.

Blair just continued her work, but with a vile socialist twist to it.

Blair a socialist? You have got to be kidding. He may not have been a loadsamoney self serving right winger but he was never a socialist, champagne or otherwise. Edited April 8, 2013 by Bluespunk

[Boon Mee]

Best PM since Churchill.

RIP Maggie!

Her final speach:

Edited April 8, 2013 by Boon Mee

[uptheos]

Her great privatisation drive lined the pockets of her mates, and don't even get me started on the Falklands. The hag has the blood of our troops on her hands. Sent from my GT-N7000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

She's not alone...

[Somtamme]

For my part she refused to subsidise the coal industry and preferred to fight the unions. It seems strange now, that the Govt prefer to subsidise the Banks for mistakes. Both policies lack consistency.

[Boon Mee]

Heh...Lady Thatcher had a wonderful way of dealing with the far left and socialists.

She called them out and mocked them.

Deservedly so.

[phutoie2]

The title of this topic is insulting, clearly placed there by a Scot with the usual chip. Thatcher was a divisive figure but the the British population voted her into office three times. She was always aggrieved that her own conservative party voted her out of No 10 and not the public.

The armed forces have a lot to thank Maggie for major increases with salaries/benefits, she was the darling of the WO/Sgt's Mess throughout UK & Germany. I remember her well, coming over to Northern Ireland in signing the Anglo/Irish agreement.

There will be many quotations about Mrs Thatcher over the next few days, one of her better ones, "the trouble with socialism is you eventually run out of other peoples money"

[theblether]

One thing that's being overlooked is that the British working man bought into her three times.

I remember sitting with Dad watching the electoral coverage in 1983, he was the Chairman of the ASTMS Union in the local area at the time, and as the results came in and normal working class constituencies turned blue he took a fit. I particularly remember him going mad at the Midlands going blue.

No one gets elected in the UK without the approval of White Van Man, it used to be Mondeo Man, and they certainly bought in to her to an extent that gave her record majorities.

I was already a Scottish Nationalist in '83, and as far as we are concerned, Thatchers imposition of the Poll Tax on Scotland ( as mentioned by neeranam ) was a slow burn gift. That singular act drove the biggest wedge ever between the Scots populace and the Westminster Parliament, and it's probably one of the biggest reasons why we will now have a Referendum next year.

Thanks Maggie

[theblether]

The title of this topic is insulting, clearly placed there by a Scot with the usual chip. Thatcher was a divisive figure but the the British population voted her into office three times. She was always aggrieved that her own conservative party voted her out of No 10 and not the public.

The armed forces have a lot to thank Maggie for major increases with salaries/benefits, she was the darling of the WO/Sgt's Mess throughout UK & Germany. I remember her well, coming over to Northern Ireland in signing the Anglo/Irish agreement.

There will be many quotations about Mrs Thatcher over the next few days, one of her better ones, "the trouble with socialism is you eventually run out of other peoples money"

Steady on old chap......why are we getting the blame for the title of the topic?

If we Scots have a chip re Thatcher we have a reason to as I mentioned above.

[Mosha]

The title of this topic is insulting, clearly placed there by a Scot with the usual chip. Thatcher was a divisive figure but the the British population voted her into office three times. She was always aggrieved that her own conservative party voted her out of No 10 and not the public.

The armed forces have a lot to thank Maggie for major increases with salaries/benefits, she was the darling of the WO/Sgt's Mess throughout UK & Germany. I remember her well, coming over to Northern Ireland in signing the Anglo/Irish agreement.

There will be many quotations about Mrs Thatcher over the next few days, one of her better ones, "the trouble with socialism is you eventually run out of other peoples money"

Steady on old chap......why are we getting the blame for the title of the topic?

If we Scots have a chip re Thatcher we have a reason to as I mentioned above.

So giving us Blair and Brown was an act of revenge? 555

[webfact]

OBITUARY
'Iron Lady' Thatcher changed Britain, made enemies on way


File photo : Thatcher//EPA

LONDON: - Margaret Thatcher, who died Monday at 87, brought fundamental economic, social and political change to Britain -earning her admiration and contempt in equal measure.

She because Britain’s first female prime minister, served a record 11 and a half years in office from 1979 to 1990 and was the first British leader whose politics and name gave rise to an "ism": Thatcherism.

Her views and politics won her the support among those who believed she made Britain great again. But critics saw her as a divisive and polarizing force.

Despite her many enemies, Baroness Thatcher would be remembered as one of the greatest leaders of peacetime Britain, commentators said, as those who followed in her footsteps continued to lay claim to her legacy.

In 1976, three years before she came to power, her hard-hitting attack on "Soviet world dominance" led Moscow’s Red Star newspaper to christen her the "Iron Lady" - a nickname in which she took delight and which remained associated with her image of unwavering toughness.

"I’m not hard - I am frightfully soft - but I will not be hounded," she once said during her notoriously thorny exchanges withthe European Union.

Thatcherism had an impact well beyond British shores.

Time magazine wrote in 1998 that Thatcher had played a decisive role in the "triumph of capitalism" as manifested in the near-universal acceptance of the free market and the 1991 collapse of Soviet imperialism after the Cold War.

However, she was also one of the first Western politicians to respond warmly to reformist Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev, whom she described as "a man we can do business with" after a 1985 meeting.

At home, Thatcher set in motion a series of economic reforms that saw mines, shipyards and steelworks closed and brought large-scale privatization of state-owned industries as well as unemployment.

In the spring of 1990, months before she resigned after a challenge to her leadership, protests against a new community tax led to the worst riots in London in a decade.

A plea for a U-turn from within her own party on some of the more drastic economic measures produced the most famous quote of her career: "The Lady is not for turning." Thatcher drew her convictions from her austere wartime childhood as the daughter of a small-town grocer from Grantham in the north-eastern county of Lincolnshire, where she was born October 13,1925.

"My policies are not based on some economic theory but on things I and millions like me were brought up on: an honest day’s work for an honest day’s pay. Live within your means. Put a nest egg by for a rainy day. Pay your bills on time. Support the police," she said.

Her convictions, translated into slogans and policies, fired the aspirations of the hard-working lower classes to strive for middle-class values in what became known as the "Thatcher Revolution." Her other trademarks included immaculate hair and handbags for a leader who inspired plays, a musical, satirical shows and a Hollywood film.

As a young woman, Margaret Hilda Roberts aimed for a political career, even while working after graduating at Oxford as a chemist. Her marriage in 1951 to the successful businessman Denis Thatcher, atop executive at Burmah Oil, was to help her on her way.

By 1959, she had won her first parliamentary seat for the Conservatives. The couple had twins, Mark and Carol, born in 1953.Thatcher once said that without her husband, who died in 2003, she could not have succeeded.

During the 1970s, Thatcher became increasingly persuaded that Britain had to be fundamentally reformed and took over the partyleadership in 1975.

Her central aim was to push back the state, cutting public expenditures, privatizing nationalized industries, ending subsidies and reducing taxes.

Bankruptcies and soaring unemployment were the initial consequences, but she ensured her 1983 electoral victory with the defeat of Argentina in the Falklands War.

Her next stand-off was a 51-week miners strike, ended in 1985 only after large-scale police deployments.

But the divide between the haves and have-nots was growing, and public services were in decline. Thatcher’s response was typical. "If any man will not work, neither let him eat" was a quote from St Paul she was fond of repeating.

In October 1984, on the day before her 59th birthday, Thatcher narrowly escaped death when the anti-British Irish Republican Army planted a bomb at a hotel in Brighton in southern England where she was staying for the Conservative Party conference.

By November 1990, she had made enough enemies within the Conservative Party that an internal revolt forced her out. After her tearful, reluctant exit from Downing Street on November 28, 1990, she said: "Home is where you go when you have nothing else to do."


-- The Nation 2013-04-09

[ChinChanGamble]

Not a tear will be shed in Ireland, pitty she was never brought before the ICC, a cold blooded murderer should never be praised, and here on TV, they never are!

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[chiang mai]

Posters under the age of 40 years old making negative comments about Margaret Thatchers time as PM are, for the most part, simply not credible.

[ChinChanGamble]

Posters under the age of 40 years old making negative comments about Margaret Thatchers time as PM are, for the most part, simply not credible.

What nonsense u speak, tell that to my father, his relatives and friends, u clearly have no idea of the ignorance and ruthlessnes of this woman

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[chiang mai]

Posters under the age of 40 years old making negative comments about Margaret Thatchers time as PM are, for the most part, simply not credible.

What nonsense u speak, tell that to my father, his relatives and friends, u clearly have no idea of the ignorance and ruthlessnes of this woman

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Is your father under 40!

Reading the UK press this morning I see that there are parties being held by various groups around the country to celebrate her death, in most cases the people involved seem not to have been born when Maggie was first elected, how stupid and sheep like is that! And of the ones that were a little older and do have some first hand recolection, most opinions, like yours, seem to have been formed based on the stories told to them by family members and friends so lots of objectivity there then!!

[SteeleJoe]

Posters under the age of 40 years old making negative comments about Margaret Thatchers time as PM are, for the most part, simply not credible.

The appropriate British colloquialism in response to that is, I believe, "Bo***cks."

There's nothing about is one tiny part of history that makes it beyond the ability of people to gain a strong I understanding of through study and analysis (rather than actually living through it). Unless you want to apply that exclusionary clause to all history - in which case I guess we should all stop giving opinions about 99% of historical events or periods.

Won't be long before there's no one on the planet who can speak credibly of World War II....

PS: Can't help but notice the specificity - presumably those under 40 making POSITIVE comments have no such credibility issues?

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[SteeleJoe]

I would think that decent human beings do not speak ill of the dead.

Why?

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