Ok then B, but the use of the term rape is strong, so report it. Although sentences poorly reflect the act it is the law, only the individual or a cause can change it. Remember Kaisan, small steps and all that!!

I would need to report just about everyone that lives around me. Please excuse me if I choose not to do so, especially in light of the fact that they invariably receive no punishment whatsoever.

Hold that against me if you wish. I would prefer though that you held it against the successive governments that talked the talk and didn't walk the walk.

Incidentally, I live in Bridgeton, Glasgow.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2143850/Glasgow-neighbourhood-9-10-adults-welfare-crowned-benefits-capital-Britain.html

If you know of someone committing benefit fraud and you don't report it then it's not the Government's fault that that crime continues. The government have provided you with a method of reporting benefit fraud. It's up to you to use it:

https://secure.dwp.gov.uk/benefitfraud/

As far as living in Bridgeton is concerned you can't extrapolate the situation there to all other parts of the UK.

How many boroughs do you think there are like Bridgeton in the UK? Where the majority of people are on benefits?

When was the last time you reported anyone for anything sustento?

As I live in a neighbourhood full of twee little old ladies and people who go to work there's nothing to report. I personally don't believe I know anyone who fiddles benefits but if I did I'd certainly report them. They're stealing money from people who need it. I certainly wouldn't complain about them and just sit back doing nothing.

So the answers no, a sheltered life methinks.

Anyone else on the thread prepared to answer when was the last time they reported anyone for anything?

The last person I reported for something was the thug who put me in hospital with three cracked ribs and concussion because I wouldn't give him a cigarette.

I live next to the railway station and people climb over the fence separating it from our car park to avoid buying a ticket; I've reported them to station staff on numerous occasions.

I've reported a neighbour in our block who was dealing crack from his flat to the police via Crimestoppers.

Haven't reported anyone for benefit fraud as I don't know anyone who is.

Now, I've answered your question; will you answer mine?

So the answers no, a sheltered life methinks.

Anyone else on the thread prepared to answer when was the last time they reported anyone for anything?

i was on the verge of reporting a TV-member to the moderators because he called me a "gentleman".

So the answers no, a sheltered life methinks.

Anyone else on the thread prepared to answer when was the last time they reported anyone for anything?

Nice try but the fact remains that you are complaining about benefit fraudsters that you're not willing to do anything about.

Sounds like the state of education in the UK is on par with America from reading the OP.

So the answers no, a sheltered life methinks.

Anyone else on the thread prepared to answer when was the last time they reported anyone for anything?

Nice try but the fact remains that you are complaining about benefit fraudsters that you're not willing to do anything about.

Yes you're right.....I'm not prepared to do anything about it. Not a goddam thing. One singular act of parliament could sort this problem out, but instead of that the government relies on turning us in to a nation of grasses.

You play that game if you wish, I refuse to do so.

Theblether: complains about crime; but wont report it because he doesn't want to be a grass!

Instead he passes the buck; saying the government should do something; should pass an Act of Parliament to make benefit fraud illegal. Benefit fraud is already illegal!

Make it a custodial offence, he says. It doesn't matter how severe the punishment; it's the risk of getting caught that is the main deterrent. Burglary is a custodial offence; still happens.

Unfortunately there are far too many people in the UK these days of a similar mind frame to theblether. More than happy to complain, but when it comes to getting up off their <deleted> and doing something, something as easy picking up a phone or clicking on a mouse, then "I'm no grass!" is their pathetic cry.

Anyone with an IQ above single figures knows that it doesn't matter how many Acts of Parliament the government passes; how severe the punishment is for benefit fraud or any crime. The authorities need public spirited people to report crime to them. The authorities can't be everywhere, can't watch everyone 24/7.

Unless that is what he is suggesting? Some sort of 1984 'Big Brother is watching you' type society where everyone's every move is closely monitored by faceless bureaucrats to ensure they are not committing benefit fraud, or any other crime.

So, theblether; is that what you want?

Oops, a question. You wont answer it; you never do.

Though you do demand that your questions are answered!

Theblether: complains about crime; but wont report it because he doesn't want to be a grass!

Instead he passes the buck; saying the government should do something; should pass an Act of Parliament to make benefit fraud illegal. Benefit fraud is already illegal!

Make it a custodial offence, he says. It doesn't matter how severe the punishment; it's the risk of getting caught that is the main deterrent. Burglary is a custodial offence; still happens.

Unfortunately there are far too many people in the UK these days of a similar mind frame to theblether. More than happy to complain, but when it comes to getting up off their <deleted> and doing something, something as easy picking up a phone or clicking on a mouse, then "I'm no grass!" is their pathetic cry.

Anyone with an IQ above single figures knows that it doesn't matter how many Acts of Parliament the government passes; how severe the punishment is for benefit fraud or any crime. The authorities need public spirited people to report crime to them. The authorities can't be everywhere, can't watch everyone 24/7.

Unless that is what he is suggesting? Some sort of 1984 'Big Brother is watching you' type society where everyone's every move is closely monitored by faceless bureaucrats to ensure they are not committing benefit fraud, or any other crime.

So, theblether; is that what you want?

Oops, a question. You wont answer it; you never do.

Though you do demand that your questions are answered!

It's unfair to single out theblether for not reporting benefit fraudsters.

This is human nature. In any country you like to name, hardly anybody will report a law infringement unless perhaps it affects them directly.

In Thailand, where most of us live (I think), who reports bribery, traffic infringements, prostitution? They're all technically illegal.

Duplicate post

Valid point.

However, to publicly complain about a particular crime, to say, without producing any evidence, that it is worse than the government figures show, to say that he knows many examples of it being committed, to say that the government should 'do something' about it but then to say that he wont be a grass and report it when he knows of it smacks of hypocrisy.

If you can do something about crime, but don't; then you are aiding and abetting the criminal.

Valid point.

However, to publicly complain about a particular crime, to say, without producing any evidence, that it is worse than the government figures show, to say that he knows many examples of it being committed, to say that the government should 'do something' about it but then to say that he wont be a grass and report it when he knows of it smacks of hypocrisy.

If you can do something about crime, but don't; then you are aiding and abetting the criminal.

I should also have mentioned in my last post the most obvious way in which citizens cheat the government.... and are often admired for doing so.... tax evasion.

Getting the better of the government is regarded by many people (perhaps most, but I wouldn't guarantee that) as simply being clever, and not a crime at all, at least among the people one likes to compare oneself with (class rearing its ugly head). But of course, if those nasty proles do it, that's a different matter. The money they're skimming off the government comes from the taxes we upright citizens pay, and that won't do at all. But shopping them? Not done, old chap.

Tax evasion* and benefit fraud; same thing in my book. Both are forms of stealing from the tax payer.

If I knew of anyone doing either then I wouldn't sit on my arse and do nothing except complain about it on an internet forum; I would use the mechanisms already in place to report them.

* It must be remembered that tax evasion is different from tax avoidance; the former is illegal, the latter isn't. Whether or not certain methods of tax avoidance, such as that practised by companies like Starbucks, should be made illegal is another matter.

I think I pointed out I didn't believe the government figures. I still don't believe them.

I will not condemn anyone, we all have a choice. However we also live in different circumstances, I have no idea of the community B lives in, but if it is bad, I guess I would show the better part of valour and stay stum. I once went to crown court to testify, I was the only witness who would and I knew the hit was coming. It never came and I didn't know why, I found out later someone, a good friend and local character had said he would look after me, I never knew this at the time. The peeps got off quite incredibly, I have little belief in the justice system since.

Tax avoidance and the reasons for and the ability to do so is worthy of its own thread.

I think I pointed out I didn't believe the government figures. I still don't believe them.

Yes, you did.

But you refuse to say what you think the correct figure is and on what your base your figure.

I will not condemn anyone, we all have a choice. However we also live in different circumstances, I have no idea of the community B lives in, but if it is bad, I guess I would show the better part of valour and stay stum.

Reporting benefit fraud is like using Crimestoppers; you do not have to give your name nor any personal details.

See here.

So the answers no, a sheltered life methinks.

Anyone else on the thread prepared to answer when was the last time they reported anyone for anything?

Nice try but the fact remains that you are complaining about benefit fraudsters that you're not willing to do anything about.

Yes you're right.....I'm not prepared to do anything about it. Not a goddam thing. One singular act of parliament could sort this problem out, but instead of that the government relies on turning us in to a nation of grasses.

You play that game if you wish, I refuse to do so.

What would that act of parliament say? There are already sufficient laws available to prosecute benefit fraudsters. If you are an honest citizen who believes in the rule of law then it is your duty to report criminals to the authorities. Instead you choose to complain about them whilst doing nothing to bring them to justice.

Theblether: complains about crime; but wont report it because he doesn't want to be a grass!

Instead he passes the buck; saying the government should do something; should pass an Act of Parliament to make benefit fraud illegal. Benefit fraud is already illegal!

Make it a custodial offence, he says. It doesn't matter how severe the punishment; it's the risk of getting caught that is the main deterrent. Burglary is a custodial offence; still happens.

Unfortunately there are far too many people in the UK these days of a similar mind frame to theblether. More than happy to complain, but when it comes to getting up off their <deleted> and doing something, something as easy picking up a phone or clicking on a mouse, then "I'm no grass!" is their pathetic cry.

Anyone with an IQ above single figures knows that it doesn't matter how many Acts of Parliament the government passes; how severe the punishment is for benefit fraud or any crime. The authorities need public spirited people to report crime to them. The authorities can't be everywhere, can't watch everyone 24/7.

Unless that is what he is suggesting? Some sort of 1984 'Big Brother is watching you' type society where everyone's every move is closely monitored by faceless bureaucrats to ensure they are not committing benefit fraud, or any other crime.

So, theblether; is that what you want?

Oops, a question. You wont answer it; you never do.

Though you do demand that your questions are answered!

It's unfair to single out theblether for not reporting benefit fraudsters.

Why is it 'unfair' to single out someone who admits that he knows the identity of specific benefit fraudsters and who complains about their behaviour but who won't report them? He knows they are committing criminal acts - he knows their identity - he complains that 'the Government' should 'do something' but he won't do anything himself.

I will not condemn anyone, we all have a choice. However we also live in different circumstances, I have no idea of the community B lives in, but if it is bad, I guess I would show the better part of valour and stay stum. I once went to crown court to testify,

You can report criminal offences in the UK in complete anonymity. On the other hand you can moan about them and do nothing.

Isn't moaning about things but doing nothing about them a good old British tradition? And probably most other people's tradition too.

I didn't moan, I complained that the figures were wrong and pointed out that the government gives this issue lip service.

:Lies, dam_n lies, and statistics.

r

, and that pot is getting raped by fraud. I know dozens of people claiming all sorts of benefits that they are not entitled to.

A little surprised at the ferocity of the use of rape, however I do not know of one person involved in benefit fraud. The welfare state is there to help those in need, for those that "rape" the system, should be reported. B do the right thing and report.

"You do not know of one person involved in benefit fraud" I can only wonder how long ago you lived in the UK,and how long you resided there, where do/did you actually reside. Did you ever go out of your house.

The word rape is strong but correct, systematic fraud takes place on a daily basis. Unfortunately in my experience the worst perpetrators are the immigrants. I know of one case where the guy of Asian descent had 105 flats under his control. He had 39 of them rented out to family members who didn't stay in them, he then re-let them on the quiet into the private market.

Average rental of £450.00 per month, £5400.00 per year x 39 when he got caught. £211,000 a year in housing benefit fraud, that's what you call raping the system. I was astounded, genuinely astounded when I read that the housing benefit bill was £23 billion a year. I know several people that keep their flat under the benefit system and live elsewhere, I know one guy that's being doing that since 2006. 7 years the flat has been empty but his reckoning is that the government pays it anyway and if he ever falls out with his lady he has somewhere to go back to.

Two guys on the sick that ran their own joinery business, one boasting that he had £12,000 cash in a shoe box below his bed. 5 years they ran that business, they got caught and got a warning. No penalty, just a written warning.

It's endemic, from low to high level. The only figure I trust is the pension payment, even then not absolutely as there have been rare cases of people claiming for dead people. Outside that I don't trust a singular government figure in this regard, not one. Just about everyone I interview for jobs these asks me if it's possible for me to pay them a full time wage but only declare 16 hours a week so they can get maximum benefits.

I don't do it cos if I'm going to bump the tax man I'll do it for myself and no one else, of course I'm lily white in that regard.

What's the solution? It's easy.......the government should hand control of the benefits system to private debt collection firms. They should be charged with examining every single claim in the system, every one. Give them a year and they will blow these frauds apart. People only do them because the price for getting caught is not high enough, and the chances of being caught low. Give a private company an incentive to catch them and watch the domino effect.

Could not agree with you more, I also used to have a business in the UK, and had the same problem as you, when interviewing applicants for a vacancy. In the area that I lived, I would go as far as to say benefit fraud was epidemic. Another serious aspect of this rampant benefit fraud was that those who did not partake in these frauds, but know about them, we're themselves pissed off about it, wondering why should they work hard, when the can see people blatantly committing fraud,

Getting away with it and being financially better off.

I suspect that most people who say they know of "dozens of people claiming all sorts of benefits that they are not entitled to" are exaggerating somewhat.

Yet, like Mossfinn and Susteno, I believe that if you know of even one person, let alone dozens, committing benefit fraud then you should report it.

Benefit fraud is theft; and the people these criminals are stealing from is not the government; the government doesn't have any money. The people these criminals are stealing from is the taxpayer; us.

Whether one accepts the government's figure on the level of fraud or whether one has one's own, higher figure, even if one refuses to say what that figure is, the level is too high.

Those who know of people who are committing fraud yet wont do anything about it are part of the problem.

Fair point, I like Theblether, interviewed job applicants who would ask me to help them commit benefit fraud, I got so fed up with this, that I spoke to our local job centre, the lady I spoke to said the authorities were aware of what was going on, but because it was on such a large scale, and usually hard and expensive to prove with only a few investigators, that they sort of ignored it.

And what happens when the neighbourhood starts getting swept up? Anonymity means nothing with unfounded retribution, I would still report probably. But I will not condemn otherwise.

:Lies, dam_n lies, and statistics.

r

, and that pot is getting raped by fraud. I know dozens of people claiming all sorts of benefits that they are not entitled to.

A little surprised at the ferocity of the use of rape, however I do not know of one person involved in benefit fraud. The welfare state is there to help those in need, for those that "rape" the system, should be reported. B do the right thing and report.

"You do not know of one person involved in benefit fraud" I can only wonder how long ago you lived in the UK,and how long you resided there, where do/did you actually reside. Did you ever go out of your house.

I used the present tense, I never said I have never known anybody ever. I still live in the UK except when on holiday in Thailand Ireland or Portugal. I go out fairly often and I know a lot of people. If you are going to criticise, please keep up.

Tax evasion* and benefit fraud; same thing in my book. Both are forms of stealing from the tax payer.

If I knew of anyone doing either then I wouldn't sit on my arse and do nothing except complain about it on an internet forum; I would use the mechanisms already in place to report them.

* It must be remembered that tax evasion is different from tax avoidance; the former is illegal, the latter isn't. Whether or not certain methods of tax avoidance, such as that practised by companies like Starbucks, should be made illegal is another matter.

These crimes are difficult to prove. I suspect several people of benefit fraud, but I do not have the proof.

If I go to the local nick (oops, sorry. That was closed last year because of cuts in policing budget) I can report what I think is happening, but I very much doubt that it would be followed-up. Lack of resources. Even if I were propping up the bar in the Red Lion, and the two guys next to me were discussing their method of defrauding the social services, I would have no proof to take to the old bill.

You don't report it to the police; you report it to the DWP online; no need to go anywhere.

You don't need proof. What happens after you report someone

The DWP Fraud Investigation Service will look at the information you give. If you’ve given enough information, they’ll check the person’s benefit claim.

The Fraud Investigation Service isn’t allowed to tell you the outcome.

Sometimes no action is taken. It might be that the person has declared a change in their circumstances and their benefit is not affected by it.

The Fraud Investigation Service will only take action if they find the person has been committing benefit fraud. Action can include removing a person’s benefits and taking them to court.

This does, of course, leave the system open to malicious reports, but so would any other reporting system. But as innocent, genuine claimants would not be affected, probably not even know their claim was being investigated, I don't see a problem with that.

I didn't moan, I complained that the figures were wrong and pointed out that the government gives this issue lip service.

You still wont say what you believe the figure to be; why?

You gave examples of people you say you know who are committing benefit fraud of some kind; yet you wont report them. Why?

You said the government should pass an Act making benefit fraud a custodial offence. As has been pointed out to you many times, severe penalties already exist.

Benefit thieves – it’s not if we catch you, it’s when. And when we do you face:

having to pay all the money back and sometimes more than you stole

prosecution

a criminal record

a fine

having your benefit stopped or reduced

having your home and possessions taken away

and even a prison sentence.