Is rape prevalent in Thailand?

[itsrebel]

"...it's one of the oldest professions in the world."

You know that argument gets old. That only means that the society has been exploiting women since forever. I guess, we will never agree. To each his own, I say.

[edwardandtubs]

You'd be on your knees sucking winkle?

No, now go get a life tubs and quit trolling, there's a good boy..

Nothing to do with trolling. You've implied that you'd rather work as a prostitute than pick rice and you seem to think that's a natural choice that most people would make. You think letting dirty old men penetrate you is easy work? I think the vast majority of people would never consider working as a prostitute.

[MB1]

"...it's one of the oldest professions in the world."

You know that argument gets old. That only means that the society has been exploiting women since forever. I guess, we will never agree. To each his own, I say.

I could say women have been using sex as a bargaining tool to get what they want forever, does that mean women have been exploiting men forever, yes your right rebel we will never agree, or maybe just one day we will....

[MB1]

You'd be on your knees sucking winkle?

No, now go get a life tubs and quit trolling, there's a good boy..

Nothing to do with trolling. You've implied that you'd rather work as a prostitute than pick rice and you seem to think that's a natural choice that most people would make. You think letting dirty old men penetrate you is easy work? I think the vast majority of people would never consider working as a prostitute.

Okay so lets say your not trolling, apologies, but why use the words "letting dirty old men penetrate you"

Is it only dirty old men who use prostitutes ?, don't younger men use prostitutes or are you implying they don't by your choice of words..?...

Do you think that men only use prostitutes to penetrate them, don't you ever think that men go with prostitutes as an alternative to having an affair no strings sex with no obligations, pay and play..

.As long as it's consensual sex beteen two legally aged adults, I don't see a problem with it.

If there were no massage parlours, brothels etc, how much more RAPE in the world do you think there would be.?..

[Sheryl]

A 2005 survey by the World Health Organization (based on interviews with a randoml representative sample of Thai women) found 30% in Bangkok and 29% in the province included (?Nakhon Sawan? not sure) reported having experienced sexual violence at least once in their lifetime. Defined as :

• being physically forced to have sexual intercourse against her will;
• having sexual intercourse because she was afraid of what her partner might do;
• being forced to do something sexual she found degrading or humiliating.

http://doesnotexist.who.int/entity/gender/violence/multicountry/en/

That's the only survey I am aware of. Obviously cannot go by police reports.

[GuestHouse]

itsrebel,

while I agree with the sentiment of your views regarding coercion in the sex industry, be aware that the argument faces a very particular problem on this forum, it places the behaviour of Johns up for question and runs counter to the 'zero harm game' justification that many here make.

That is not to say you should not make your point here, of course you should.

But understand that the customers of prostitutes don't like their own choices being in anyway questioned. (and when they talk of freedom of choice it is their freedom and their choices they wish to defend).

[GuestHouse]

A point to note, there are numerous studies, documentaries and articles examining the women in Thailand's sex industry - virtually no such analysis of the people who drive the industry - the customers.

Its study that would surely reveal something instructive.

[thaibeachlovers]

Very interesting read so far! And this one comes close to the verdict in the Delhi rape case, which on the face of it appears to be the correct one.

I have but a few things to add here.

First off - I recently met a 40 something Thai woman, who said she was raped five years ago by five people and then they threw her into a river to die, but a fisherman saved her life. She was disowned by her family because this happened and she wanted to go to the police. She hasn't spoken to her family since, but they made sure that she wasn't able to file the case. How they accomplished that, she didn't want to get into. It was getting very hard for her to talk about this by this part, and I chose not to push her further. Thankfully, she is doing relatively alright now and has since been able to start her own business far far away from her home city.

Although, I don't have any statistics to cite, I think it is a safe bet to say that Thailand does not do a whole lot better than say India.

Second - someone mentioned the "Indian trash" - I hope they realize that not all Indian men are rapists. But I will also add at this point that there is a problem in that country on how women are treated. But that is a much larger discussion and probably not fit for this thread.

About the BG issue. I think it is kind of a rape. Not to trivialize the sufferings of women such as mentioned earlier, but paying for an intercourse where one party is most likely doing it because she is unable to provide for herself or her family is an "economic rape". It is similar to a gun being pointed at her, of course the "gun" here being the one of hunger and starvation or watching her kids suffer due to poverty. I do understand that there are some BGs who choose to do what they do for other reasons, but I believe the vast majority don't.

I doubt that you actually know many, if any BGs, or you've talked to some with "stories" and actually believe them.

No Thai woman is compelled to work in a "western" bar ( unlike in the Thai sex industry, but that's not what you are talking about ). They choose to do it because:

they are looking for a rich farang to marry,

they like the party lifestyle and having money to buy luxuries,

or they find it easier to make money on their back than working as a maid, factory worker, rice field worker or construction worker, like the millions of other equally disadvantaged Thai women do.

The vast majority of Thai women in the farang scene are just normal women looking to make some money the easy way for a few years. It's not something they look on as a career.

Regarding rape in LOS. I know a Thai woman that was raped and then forced by her family to marry the man that raped her.

[thaibeachlovers]

You'd be on your knees sucking winkle?

No, now go get a life tubs and quit trolling, there's a good boy..

Nothing to do with trolling. You've implied that you'd rather work as a prostitute than pick rice and you seem to think that's a natural choice that most people would make. You think letting dirty old men penetrate you is easy work? I think the vast majority of people would never consider working as a prostitute.

Judging by the lifestyle of the bargirls I've known, I'd rather be a prostitute in a Pattaya bar than work in a sweatshop or in the ricefields for less that 300 baht a day.

As for letting "dirty old men penetrate me", Hugh Heffner doesn't seem to have any problem getting sexy young women to allow him to have his way, or is he not a dirty old man because he is rich?

[thaibeachlovers]

A point to note, there are numerous studies, documentaries and articles examining the women in Thailand's sex industry - virtually no such analysis of the people who drive the industry - the customers.

Its study that would surely reveal something instructive.

I hope your study would include the Thai men that use the women in the THAI sex industry, in comparison to which, the farang scene is infitisimal.

[cooked]

This is probably the scariest attitude I've come across on TV.

But what he is saying is true though. If a girl consents to you having sex with her then it's not rape is it?

If she consents and then later things are getting a bit out of hand or she changes her mind and tells you to stop / no (therefore no longer consenting) and you continue anyway then that becomes rape.

Most 'normal' males will stop when requested to do so by the lady, even when they are starting to come to an orgasm.

[thaibeachlovers]

This is probably the scariest attitude I've come across on TV.

But what he is saying is true though. If a girl consents to you having sex with her then it's not rape is it?

If she consents and then later things are getting a bit out of hand or she changes her mind and tells you to stop / no (therefore no longer consenting) and you continue anyway then that becomes rape.

Most 'normal' males will stop when requested to do so by the lady, even when they are starting to come to an orgasm.

If they have any sense, they will. Courts in the west love to stick it to males.

Of course, it's always better not to get to that situation with a woman that is so brain fracked she'd do something like that.

[Commander Tamson]

This discussion has now degenerated to the point where the moderator should close it!

Sexual intercourse without consent is RAPE!!!! Discussions on any other type of sexual intercourse does not IMO belong on this thread.

[midasthailand]

My ex girlfriend was raped by her uncle when she was 11,now 32, she has real commitment issues which I believe trace back to being raped by a trusted family member. This guy is a doctor and when I asked his name and location so that I could arrange suitable punishment she refused to tell me. She has a pathological fear of hospitals and doctors.

We spoke at length about her experience and how it had affected her and one of the things to come out of our discussions was that many of her friends had experienced rape at the hands of a family member whilst still an adolescent.

Since we have split I have discussed her fear of commitment with many of our mutual friends, mostly Thais and they all say that rape of young girls by family members is common in rural Thailand.

[Sheryl]

A point to note, there are numerous studies, documentaries and articles examining the women in Thailand's sex industry - virtually no such analysis of the people who drive the industry - the customers.

Its study that would surely reveal something instructive.

My understanding is that in Sweden, they criminalized paying for sex i.e. the customers can be arrested, but not the prostitutes who are viewed as victims.

I have no idea how that is working out, but certainly the arresting of prostitutes doesn't achieve anything constructive anywhere.

[itsrebel]

itsrebel,

while I agree with the sentiment of your views regarding coercion in the sex industry, be aware that the argument faces a very particular problem on this forum, it places the behaviour of Johns up for question and runs counter to the 'zero harm game' justification that many here make.

That is not to say you should not make your point here, of course you should.

But understand that the customers of prostitutes don't like their own choices being in anyway questioned. (and when they talk of freedom of choice it is their freedom and their choices they wish to defend).

GuestHouse,

I know my audience here. I feel no harm in throwing an opinion in a forum where it will be rejected by a large number of members. I am actually surprised by the fact that no one came back with any obscenities thrown at me, which I was very well expecting. I am new to this forum; it is at least good to know that we can disagree here without the fear of being personally attacked.

[itsrebel]

Very interesting read so far! And this one comes close to the verdict in the Delhi rape case, which on the face of it appears to be the correct one.

I have but a few things to add here.

First off - I recently met a 40 something Thai woman, who said she was raped five years ago by five people and then they threw her into a river to die, but a fisherman saved her life. She was disowned by her family because this happened and she wanted to go to the police. She hasn't spoken to her family since, but they made sure that she wasn't able to file the case. How they accomplished that, she didn't want to get into. It was getting very hard for her to talk about this by this part, and I chose not to push her further. Thankfully, she is doing relatively alright now and has since been able to start her own business far far away from her home city.

Although, I don't have any statistics to cite, I think it is a safe bet to say that Thailand does not do a whole lot better than say India.

Second - someone mentioned the "Indian trash" - I hope they realize that not all Indian men are rapists. But I will also add at this point that there is a problem in that country on how women are treated. But that is a much larger discussion and probably not fit for this thread.

About the BG issue. I think it is kind of a rape. Not to trivialize the sufferings of women such as mentioned earlier, but paying for an intercourse where one party is most likely doing it because she is unable to provide for herself or her family is an "economic rape". It is similar to a gun being pointed at her, of course the "gun" here being the one of hunger and starvation or watching her kids suffer due to poverty. I do understand that there are some BGs who choose to do what they do for other reasons, but I believe the vast majority don't.

I doubt that you actually know many, if any BGs, or you've talked to some with "stories" and actually believe them.

No Thai woman is compelled to work in a "western" bar ( unlike in the Thai sex industry, but that's not what you are talking about ). They choose to do it because:

they are looking for a rich farang to marry,

they like the party lifestyle and having money to buy luxuries,

or they find it easier to make money on their back than working as a maid, factory worker, rice field worker or construction worker, like the millions of other equally disadvantaged Thai women do.

The vast majority of Thai women in the farang scene are just normal women looking to make some money the easy way for a few years. It's not something they look on as a career.

Regarding rape in LOS. I know a Thai woman that was raped and then forced by her family to marry the man that raped her.

I will admit to the fact that I don't really know any BG. I have had few conversations over a few drinks, but I am not totally naive. I do realize there are such girls out there that you refer to. But, I hardly think that you know all the BGs and know for sure that "no woman is compelled to work in a 'western bar'" as you put it.

[GuestHouse]

A point to note, there are numerous studies, documentaries and articles examining the women in Thailand's sex industry - virtually no such analysis of the people who drive the industry - the customers.

Its study that would surely reveal something instructive.

I hope your study would include the Thai men that use the women in the THAI sex industry, in comparison to which, the farang scene is infitisimal.

This is the argument of where best to hide a tree.

Nah, let's keep it relevant to foreigners in Thailand, sort of inline with whaTVF is about.

A bit of introspection never did anyone much harm.

Edited September 17, 2013 by GuestHouse

[thaibeachlovers]

Very interesting read so far! And this one comes close to the verdict in the Delhi rape case, which on the face of it appears to be the correct one.

I have but a few things to add here.

First off - I recently met a 40 something Thai woman, who said she was raped five years ago by five people and then they threw her into a river to die, but a fisherman saved her life. She was disowned by her family because this happened and she wanted to go to the police. She hasn't spoken to her family since, but they made sure that she wasn't able to file the case. How they accomplished that, she didn't want to get into. It was getting very hard for her to talk about this by this part, and I chose not to push her further. Thankfully, she is doing relatively alright now and has since been able to start her own business far far away from her home city.

Although, I don't have any statistics to cite, I think it is a safe bet to say that Thailand does not do a whole lot better than say India.

Second - someone mentioned the "Indian trash" - I hope they realize that not all Indian men are rapists. But I will also add at this point that there is a problem in that country on how women are treated. But that is a much larger discussion and probably not fit for this thread.

About the BG issue. I think it is kind of a rape. Not to trivialize the sufferings of women such as mentioned earlier, but paying for an intercourse where one party is most likely doing it because she is unable to provide for herself or her family is an "economic rape". It is similar to a gun being pointed at her, of course the "gun" here being the one of hunger and starvation or watching her kids suffer due to poverty. I do understand that there are some BGs who choose to do what they do for other reasons, but I believe the vast majority don't.

I doubt that you actually know many, if any BGs, or you've talked to some with "stories" and actually believe them.

No Thai woman is compelled to work in a "western" bar ( unlike in the Thai sex industry, but that's not what you are talking about ). They choose to do it because:

they are looking for a rich farang to marry,

they like the party lifestyle and having money to buy luxuries,

or they find it easier to make money on their back than working as a maid, factory worker, rice field worker or construction worker, like the millions of other equally disadvantaged Thai women do.

The vast majority of Thai women in the farang scene are just normal women looking to make some money the easy way for a few years. It's not something they look on as a career.

Regarding rape in LOS. I know a Thai woman that was raped and then forced by her family to marry the man that raped her.

I will admit to the fact that I don't really know any BG. I have had few conversations over a few drinks, but I am not totally naive. I do realize there are such girls out there that you refer to. But, I hardly think that you know all the BGs and know for sure that "no woman is compelled to work in a 'western bar'" as you put it.

While I obviously don't know "all the bargirls", I would be extremely doubtful that any person visiting a farang bar would find a girl that couldn't walk away at any time if she chose to do so.

Of course, they will tell anyone that believes them that they were "forced" to rent themselves out to pay for the vet to cure the sick buffalo.

[thaibeachlovers]

A point to note, there are numerous studies, documentaries and articles examining the women in Thailand's sex industry - virtually no such analysis of the people who drive the industry - the customers.

Its study that would surely reveal something instructive.

My understanding is that in Sweden, they criminalized paying for sex i.e. the customers can be arrested, but not the prostitutes who are viewed as victims.

I have no idea how that is working out, but certainly the arresting of prostitutes doesn't achieve anything constructive anywhere.

In New Zealand, they legalised prostitution and the girls work in brothels. Seems to be a win win situation. Men can have sex without worrying about being arrested and the girls are safe.

BTW, no way a NZ prostitute would consider herself a "victim", just as in Nevada, USA, where some places have legal brothels.

In Venusuela, prostitution is legal and there is an English guy that organises stays at his sex hotel for English guys.

Seems much better to legalise it than criminalise it.

Edited September 17, 2013 by thaibeachlovers

[MB1]

itsrebel,

while I agree with the sentiment of your views regarding coercion in the sex industry, be aware that the argument faces a very particular problem on this forum, it places the behaviour of Johns up for question and runs counter to the 'zero harm game' justification that many here make.

That is not to say you should not make your point here, of course you should.

But understand that the customers of prostitutes don't like their own choices being in anyway questioned. (and when they talk of freedom of choice it is their freedom and their choices they wish to defend).

So Guesthouse, according to you customers of prostitutes don't like their choices being questioned and their defending their choices..

I'd have said it's more a case by some of knowing and understanding the word RAPE and not demeaning the word rape, by the way I'm referring to the ones who feel that not paying a woman for consensual sex = rape.

If there was a gun to her head, or a knife at her throat etc whilst sex was taking place then I'd be the first to agree it's rape..

By the way, for the record, I haven't paid in the pay for play scene for around 7+ years, so I guess you can call me an ex John with a view..

[snake24]

A point to note, there are numerous studies, documentaries and articles examining the women in Thailand's sex industry - virtually no such analysis of the people who drive the industry - the customers.

Its study that would surely reveal something instructive.

My understanding is that in Sweden, they criminalized paying for sex i.e. the customers can be arrested, but not the prostitutes who are viewed as victims.

I have no idea how that is working out, but certainly the arresting of prostitutes doesn't achieve anything constructive anywhere.

In New Zealand, they legalised prostitution and the girls work in brothels. Seems to be a win win situation. Men can have sex without worrying about being arrested and the girls are safe.

BTW, no way a NZ prostitute would consider herself a "victim", just as in Nevada, USA, where some places have legal brothels.

In Venusuela, prostitution is legal and there is an English guy that organises stays at his sex hotel for English guys.

Seems much better to legalise it than criminalise it.

You forgot the world famous amsterdam. How could you?

[thaibeachlovers]

A point to note, there are numerous studies, documentaries and articles examining the women in Thailand's sex industry - virtually no such analysis of the people who drive the industry - the customers.

Its study that would surely reveal something instructive.

My understanding is that in Sweden, they criminalized paying for sex i.e. the customers can be arrested, but not the prostitutes who are viewed as victims.

I have no idea how that is working out, but certainly the arresting of prostitutes doesn't achieve anything constructive anywhere.

In New Zealand, they legalised prostitution and the girls work in brothels. Seems to be a win win situation. Men can have sex without worrying about being arrested and the girls are safe.

BTW, no way a NZ prostitute would consider herself a "victim", just as in Nevada, USA, where some places have legal brothels.

In Venusuela, prostitution is legal and there is an English guy that organises stays at his sex hotel for English guys.

Seems much better to legalise it than criminalise it.

You forgot the world famous amsterdam. How could you?

I didn't mention all the countries that have legal prostitution, including at least one of the Australian states.

Somehow though, prostitution in Thailand seems to be so much worse than that at "home" for many posters.

Edited September 19, 2013 by thaibeachlovers

[HeavyDrinker]

The thing is that those who belch the most drivel about Thai hookers in the Western scene and how 'evil' their punters are tend to be those who have married an (ex?) bar girl who then stop them going out to enjoy the scene.

They then think themselves pillars of the society as they can't indulge any more as they're too busy buying pick-ups for Uncle Somchai and become members of silly groups like the Pattaya "Rotarians" and so on...

Poor dears...

[GuestHouse]

The thing is that those who belch the most drivel about Thai hookers in the Western scene and how 'evil' their punters are tend to be those who have married an (ex?) bar girl who then stop them going out to enjoy the scene.

They then think themselves pillars of the society as they can't indulge any more as they're too busy buying pick-ups for Uncle Somchai and become members of silly groups like the Pattaya "Rotarians" and so on...

Poor dears...

Those are rather definite statements - can you explain to us what they are based upon, do you have verifiable proof of these statements or are you simply suffering and attack of gob-<deleted>?

[thaibeachlovers]

The thing is that those who belch the most drivel about Thai hookers in the Western scene and how 'evil' their punters are tend to be those who have married an (ex?) bar girl who then stop them going out to enjoy the scene.

They then think themselves pillars of the society as they can't indulge any more as they're too busy buying pick-ups for Uncle Somchai and become members of silly groups like the Pattaya "Rotarians" and so on...

Poor dears...

Those are rather definite statements - can you explain to us what they are based upon, do you have verifiable proof of these statements or are you simply suffering and attack of gob-<deleted>?

I can't say what he bases them on, but IMO it's utter hypocisy for any western man to come and live in LOS and complain about prostitution here, not least because it's probably rife where he came from. Set one's own house in order before complaining about an aspect of one's CHOSEN country, especially when that aspect is accepted by the local populace.

[GuestHouse]

I can't say what he bases them on, but IMO it's utter hypocisy for any western man to come and live in LOS and complain about prostitution here, not least because it's probably rife where he came from. Set one's own house in order before complaining about an aspect of one's CHOSEN country, especially when that aspect is accepted by the local populace.

A couple of points TBL:

Can you please indicate in the above thread where I have "complained about prostitution in Thailand".

Secondly are you seriously suggesting that choosing to live somewhere negates our right to express critical opinions about our chosen place simply because the subject being criticised is also present in our 'home' country?

I believe you are mistaken on the first point and that you would not make such a feeble argument as I question in the second.

[Sheryl]

This topic was about rape.

Soemhow it has gotten sidetracked into a debate about prostitution which is now close to becoming a flamefest (as debates on that subject so often do).

May be please just return to the topic at hand before the thread has to be closed?

[wolf5370]

If a BG agrees to provide sex for money, and the trick pays the money and and has sex with the BG, after which the trick beats the BG, it would still be a crime, but the sex was consensual, so shouldn't it then be more like assault?

Now if the trick refused to pay the the BG for providing the sex, them it is certainly rape, and the beating should have nothing to do with it.

What if she enjoyed the sex and the guy don't pay. Would that also be rape?

If she enjoyed the sex, and agreed to wave payment, it would not be rape.

If a woman were walking down the street and a stranger grabbed her, forced her into the back of a van and banged her. If the victim has an orgasm, would it till be rape?

This was the thinking that caused rape against men to be so very difficult to prosecute some years back. The man had an erection, so he enjoyed it right? so no rape right? That as the thinking, it is not the current thinking in most western countries these days. It is the consent and the ability to consent that matters - having sex with a women (or man) too drunk to say 'no' is still considered rape - hence the term "date rape drug"

[boomerangutang]

sorry, I haven't read all the posts, but here's my thumbnail 'take' on rape in Thailand:

It is prevalent, but more often date rape, and not often violent rape. In case you don't know, 'date rape' is strong coercion usually fueled by alcohol, but other drugs can be effective. Unwanted pregnancies and possible STD's can happen in date rapes just as easily as with violent rapes.

Either way, there is psychological damage. If a true census were taken, and respondents were honest, I'd venture well over half of Thai girls get raped or date raped before they're out of their teens.

Deadbeat dads are an endemic problem also in Thailand. Several reasons, but not least is: There is no legal repercussions for being a deadbeat dad. None at all! It's all a big 'mai pen rai', which is why approx 70% of Thai kids don't have both natural parents bringing them up.