Immigration Laws - Are Thais Subject To Retaliation In Other countries?

[MAJIC]

Well I'm sure you know the reasons and there are many, one being that the British people are

probably too tolerant of others, they are scared to be labeled racialist etc, not so the Thai's.

Personally I think the Thai requirements are far to restricted for prospective immigrants, while the UK is to easy going (unless you are a Brit with returning foreign wife)it would be nice if both countries could take a leaf out of each others book. Will it happen, not in OUR lifetime.

No, there's a far easier explanation than that.

It's because the British government handed over it's boarder controls to the EEC.

Sorry that is not correct Thais on a schengen tourist visa can not enter the UK .

What Fifty Two means is that the British Government signed away our rights to Border controls in Europe, i.e there are no Border Controls to EEC Member States,any of the EEC Country members can just walk in to the UK!, on the first of January 2014,we have two more additional member states,in the Form of Rumania and Bulgaria,who also have the right to unrestricted access to the UK.

[sustento]

Well I'm sure you know the reasons and there are many, one being that the British people are

probably too tolerant of others, they are scared to be labeled racialist etc, not so the Thai's.

Personally I think the Thai requirements are far to restricted for prospective immigrants, while the UK is to easy going (unless you are a Brit with returning foreign wife)it would be nice if both countries could take a leaf out of each others book. Will it happen, not in OUR lifetime.

No, there's a far easier explanation than that.

It's because the British government handed over it's boarder controls to the EEC.

Sorry that is not correct Thais on a schengen tourist visa can not enter the UK .

What Fifty Two means is that the British Government signed away our rights to Border controls in Europe, i.e there are no Border Controls to EEC Member States,any of the EEC Country members can just walk in to the UK!,

And the Brits can do the same...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2468189/Dont-mention-ze-dole-One-tenth-Britains-expat-population-claiming-23-000-unemployment-payments-Germany-benefits-Europe-revealed.html

[MJP]

When I get back to the UK in 2014 I'm starting an MSc in Nuclear Decommissioning. Not looking forward to it to be honest.

I think Thailand's "immigration" laws are actually very sensible. I don't bother with Non-O anymore, the Thai Consulate now grants reasonable tourist visas of 3 x 60 days, which is enough for my tour of duty here until favorite Auntie takes over the running of the house and kids.

As for comparing the UK and Thailand regarding income and education levels, you simply can't. Hi-So Thai's can afford the very best education, yet education standards for the majority have been shown to be poor. Income here is all or nothing, the charts are all very skewed.

[NewlyMintedThai]

When I get back to the UK in 2014 I'm starting an MSc in Nuclear Decommissioning. Not looking forward to it to be honest.

I think Thailand's "immigration" laws are actually very sensible. I don't bother with Non-O anymore, the Thai Consulate now grants reasonable tourist visas of 3 x 60 days, which is enough for my tour of duty here until favorite Auntie takes over the running of the house and kids.

As for comparing the UK and Thailand regarding income and education levels, you simply can't. Hi-So Thai's can afford the very best education, yet education standards for the majority have been shown to be poor. Income here is all or nothing, the charts are all very skewed.

Have you checked the figures on income disparity in the US and UK recently?

[MJP]

When I get back to the UK in 2014 I'm starting an MSc in Nuclear Decommissioning. Not looking forward to it to be honest.

I think Thailand's "immigration" laws are actually very sensible. I don't bother with Non-O anymore, the Thai Consulate now grants reasonable tourist visas of 3 x 60 days, which is enough for my tour of duty here until favorite Auntie takes over the running of the house and kids.

As for comparing the UK and Thailand regarding income and education levels, you simply can't. Hi-So Thai's can afford the very best education, yet education standards for the majority have been shown to be poor. Income here is all or nothing, the charts are all very skewed.

Have you checked the figures on income disparity in the US and UK recently?

Yes, it is getting worse, but for the UK it's not that bad to be honest. The distribution of wealth here in Thailand may have improved of over the past decade but it's still extremely bad.

Sorry, but the two countries are incomparable on so many levels.

[NewlyMintedThai]

When I get back to the UK in 2014 I'm starting an MSc in Nuclear Decommissioning. Not looking forward to it to be honest.

I think Thailand's "immigration" laws are actually very sensible. I don't bother with Non-O anymore, the Thai Consulate now grants reasonable tourist visas of 3 x 60 days, which is enough for my tour of duty here until favorite Auntie takes over the running of the house and kids.

As for comparing the UK and Thailand regarding income and education levels, you simply can't. Hi-So Thai's can afford the very best education, yet education standards for the majority have been shown to be poor. Income here is all or nothing, the charts are all very skewed.

Have you checked the figures on income disparity in the US and UK recently?

Yes, it is getting worse, but for the UK it's not that bad to be honest. The distribution of wealth here in Thailand may have improved of over the past decade but it's still extremely bad.

Sorry, but the two countries are incomparable on so many levels.

You might be surprised that income disparity in the UK is worse than it is in Thailand.

13.8:1 for UK and only 12.6:1 for Thailand when it comes to the the ratio of average income of the richest 10% to the poorest 10%.

[nisakiman]

I think the issue is not so much how easy or difficult it is to become a 'resident' of a country, but once granted that residency, what rights you have there.

I'm British, but have lived for more than ten years in Greece. My wife of six years is Thai. She came here the first time on a one month (Schengen) tourist visa, which I extended a couple of times until she reached the maximum of six months, at which point she had to return to Thailand. I followed a few months later and we lived in Bangkok for three months, during which time she obtained another tourist visa, this time a three month visa (how I swung that is another story). When we got back to Greece, I immediately started the ball rolling for us to get married here. The paperwork was mountainous, but was quite achievable, and we got married before the visa ran out. We then applied for a residency permit for her (based on her marriage to me, an EU citizen in possession of a Greek residency permit), and while that was going through the system, she was given leave to legally stay in the country. The residency permit was eventually issued (everything bureaucratic takes an age here), and once she was in possession of the residency permit, she was then afforded virtually all the rights that a natural Greek enjoys. She has a tax number, she can work in any job she chooses, she can own (100% in her name) a business of any type, and she can own (100% in her name) property. She is under no obligation to report, ever, to the authorities for any reason. All she has to do is to renew her permit; a formality involving filling in a form, attaching a new photo and handing it in to the local office. She doesn't even have to pay anything (although that may change, given the economic climate). And that will be it for another ten years, when it will need renewing again.

In a couple of years, we intend to move to Thailand. Even supposing I have all the right paperwork to settle there, based on my marriage to a Thai citizen, what rights will I have? Compared to my (Thai citizen) wife in Greece, very few. I wouldn't be able to work in my trade (I have a carpentry business here), I can't own 100% of my business, whatever it is, I can't own property and I have to report to the authorities every 90 days.

That is a big difference.

[MJP]

When I get back to the UK in 2014 I'm starting an MSc in Nuclear Decommissioning. Not looking forward to it to be honest.

I think Thailand's "immigration" laws are actually very sensible. I don't bother with Non-O anymore, the Thai Consulate now grants reasonable tourist visas of 3 x 60 days, which is enough for my tour of duty here until favorite Auntie takes over the running of the house and kids.

As for comparing the UK and Thailand regarding income and education levels, you simply can't. Hi-So Thai's can afford the very best education, yet education standards for the majority have been shown to be poor. Income here is all or nothing, the charts are all very skewed.

Have you checked the figures on income disparity in the US and UK recently?

Yes, it is getting worse, but for the UK it's not that bad to be honest. The distribution of wealth here in Thailand may have improved of over the past decade but it's still extremely bad.

Sorry, but the two countries are incomparable on so many levels.

You might be surprised that income disparity in the UK is worse than it is in Thailand.

13.8:1 for UK and only 12.6:1 for Thailand when it comes to the the ratio of average income of the richest 10% to the poorest 10%.

Strawman argument.

Look at the income levels and purchasing power. Completely different story.

If you're a poor Thai on 300 Baht (£6) a day and it costs 100 Baht to fill your scooter with petrol. Well go figure.

[NewlyMintedThai]

It's not a strawman argument; it is directly addressing the question of income disparity -- which happens to be WORSE back home.

It's no fun living on minimum wage anywhere, whether it's the UK or Thailand or the US. Personally, I think a person making minimum wage in rural Thailand has a lot higher quality of life than someone washing dishes in London.

[MJP]

It's not a strawman argument; it is directly addressing the question of income disparity -- which happens to be WORSE back home.

It's no fun living on minimum wage anywhere, whether it's the UK or Thailand or the US. Personally, I think a person making minimum wage in rural Thailand has a lot higher quality of life than someone washing dishes in London.

Okay yes, you win this one but with some caveats.

The first is data collection and accurate reporting of statistics.

Secondly, if you're ill in the UK you have access to good health care. I know the NHS gets kicked around but it's never let me down yet. There is a safety net for the unemployed. There's proper social services. The quality of education available to all is far better. There's even a safety net for immigrants, even illegal ones.

You only have to look at why a place like Pattaya exists to know a country is failing its people. Tough words probably difficult to reconcile, but Thailand does not rank well in the World today when it comes to human rights, slavery, living conditions for the poor, corruption, justice, educational standards for the masses . . . .

This is a difficult conversation to be had on ThaiVisa. I'm going to leave it at that because I don't want to be banned, mostly because I enjoy the photo forum very much. But I think you know where I'm coming from.

[NewlyMintedThai]

Universal medical care is available to all Thais. Regardless of what people say, it works. An employee of mine -- a close-to-minimum-age worker -- gave birth to a baby with a heart defect. The medical system came through: the baby was evacuated to Siriraj Hospital where it had three rounds of open-heart surgery that saved its life. For free.

The education system is definitely lacking, but I think the Thais are lucky to have their medical system.

When I look at Pattaya, I see more pitiful farangs than Thais. But, point taken. It is an ugly place all around.

Many people I know "back home" deplore the "welfare state" that allows the lower classes in the US and UK to loaf around doing nothing while sucking on the country's teat. They may have a point...maybe it's better for Thais that such a system does not exist here.

[MJP]

Universal medical care is available to all Thais. Regardless of what people say, it works. An employee of mine -- a close-to-minimum-age worker -- gave birth to a baby with a heart defect. The medical system came through: the baby was evacuated to Siriraj Hospital where it had three rounds of open-heart surgery that saved its life. For free.

The education system is definitely lacking, but I think the Thais are lucky to have their medical system.

When I look at Pattaya, I see more pitiful farangs than Thais. But, point taken. It is an ugly place all around.

Many people I know "back home" deplore the "welfare state" that allows the lower classes in the US and UK to loaf around doing nothing while sucking on the country's teat. They may have a point...maybe it's better for Thais that such a system does not exist here.

I shall not disagree, because I don't disagree. I don't think the present UK strategy is sustainable.

Thanks for the information about the Thai NHS.

[razorramone]

"

Personally, I'd be rather stunned if it turned out that any of the countries where I am a citizen exposes Thais to wrongful actions simply because Thai immigration laws are less than favourable. I am actually quite confident there's no such thing as a discussion like "now they treat us bad, we're going to treat them the same way. That'll teach them!""

This is standard practice in many countries. Fees are reciprocated.

The UK has huge immigration fees, and as a result I am subject to huge fees when I go to other countries. I paid almost $1000 a year while in south America in work visa fees. While my American friends paid $50.

I don't see the problem, it seems fair to me? The aim is to make immigration between the two countries equal. If Thailand makes it difficult for country x citizens, country x makes it difficult for Thais.

From Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reciprocity_(international_relations)

"In international relations and treaties, the principle of reciprocity states that favours, benefits, or penalties that are granted by one state to the citizens or legal entities of another, should be returned in kind."

Edited October 20, 2013 by razorramone

[BudRight]

My wife applied for a visa for to visit my family in Arizona, just a visitors visa, my wife has no desire to move to the States, we were given a long visa application to fill out we, did everything that was requested, we went for the interview and the application was turned down, because my wife was not working and was applying with my income, she had to show she had a life here in Thailand that she would come back to. When we stated she owned 22 rai of rice fields' had two children and her family here to return to, they said based on her income she was not eligible.

I asked to talk to a supervisor, we had to come back in the afternoon to see the supervisor, as I was explaining to him what happened he said he knew what happened as he witnessed our complete interview. He stated that the visa request was rejected because my wife could had no verifiable income, and that besides the fact I been living in Thailand for four years I had a Thai tourist visa and could not verify my intentions of returning to Thailand after my visit.

I explained that my wife's income was my income (Family income) he stated I needed to include that on my wife's visa request, and I stated why if that's what was needed to approve my wife's visa application, why was that information not included on the visa application.

I said OK give me back the application and we will refile it with the added information,He stated "No" I can not do that applications was rejected. You need to file a new application and repay the application fee.

Needless to say we did not reapply, and I went to Arizona alone.

On the other hand I was given a visa on Arrival in Thailand, and had to make frequent visa runs, I was allowed easy access to live in Thailand, while my wife was not allowed a visa to meet my family. I think Thailand's immigration service is much fairer and a lot less expensive.

I went through this, but my girlfriend's visa was approved.

She had a job and I had a Thai work permit.

Now she has a ten year multi-entry visa to the US, good for six months per entry.

You go and try to get a similar visa for Thailand. Guess what? It doesn't even exist.

[yingyo]

"

Personally, I'd be rather stunned if it turned out that any of the countries where I am a citizen exposes Thais to wrongful actions simply because Thai immigration laws are less than favourable. I am actually quite confident there's no such thing as a discussion like "now they treat us bad, we're going to treat them the same way. That'll teach them!""

This is standard practice in many countries. Fees are reciprocated.

The UK has huge immigration fees, and as a result I am subject to huge fees when I go to other countries. I paid almost $1000 a year while in south America in work visa fees.

I don't see the problem, it seems fair to me? The aim is to make immigration between the two countries equal. If Thailand makes it difficult for country x citizens, country x makes it difficult for Thais.

Yes, a number of nationals get 90 days on arrival when arriving in Thailand instead of 30 because reciprocal visa arrangements.

[NewlyMintedThai]

My wife applied for a visa for to visit my family in Arizona, just a visitors visa, my wife has no desire to move to the States, we were given a long visa application to fill out we, did everything that was requested, we went for the interview and the application was turned down, because my wife was not working and was applying with my income, she had to show she had a life here in Thailand that she would come back to. When we stated she owned 22 rai of rice fields' had two children and her family here to return to, they said based on her income she was not eligible.

I asked to talk to a supervisor, we had to come back in the afternoon to see the supervisor, as I was explaining to him what happened he said he knew what happened as he witnessed our complete interview. He stated that the visa request was rejected because my wife could had no verifiable income, and that besides the fact I been living in Thailand for four years I had a Thai tourist visa and could not verify my intentions of returning to Thailand after my visit.

I explained that my wife's income was my income (Family income) he stated I needed to include that on my wife's visa request, and I stated why if that's what was needed to approve my wife's visa application, why was that information not included on the visa application.

I said OK give me back the application and we will refile it with the added information,He stated "No" I can not do that applications was rejected. You need to file a new application and repay the application fee.

Needless to say we did not reapply, and I went to Arizona alone.

On the other hand I was given a visa on Arrival in Thailand, and had to make frequent visa runs, I was allowed easy access to live in Thailand, while my wife was not allowed a visa to meet my family. I think Thailand's immigration service is much fairer and a lot less expensive.

I went through this, but my girlfriend's visa was approved.

She had a job and I had a Thai work permit.

Now she has a ten year multi-entry visa to the US, good for six months per entry.

You go and try to get a similar visa for Thailand. Guess what? It doesn't even exist.

It sounds better than it is.

You can't actually live on that in the US like you can on a tourist visa in Thailand.

You can't just stay in the US for six months, step over to Tijuana for the day, and think you're going to be let back in for another six months. It doesn't work like that.

If you want to use it to visit the US a couple times a year for a month of a time, it will enable you to do that. But it doesn't allow you to be a perpetual tourist like Thailand allows.

Big difference.

[Maestro]

I am closing this topic because there is too much nonsensical bickering going on and there are too many irrelevant and off-topic posts. Fellow moderators may look at it in the morning and reopen it if they wish to see if the hot heads have cooled down.