A poster mentioned that he hadn't seen it much round the circles he socialises with.

Everyone has different experiences.

Everyday the kids come home from school ... every time ... those older in the house are greeted with both a physical wai and a verbal greeting.

Ditto those guests who come to the house.

I don't try and be Thai ... but I do try and show proper respect.

EDITED to add ...

.

I can show respect to people without making some weird half assed hand gestures.

I have to say I find this most out of character for you.

Are you fair dinkum? or just having a bad day?

I do, but depending of the situation.

Sometimes a nod and smile will do.

Point is that one is polite.

Always a hoot to observe foreigners enter and wai each and every person they see, no matter who they are.

Confusing maids, cleaning staff, busboys, cooks, waiters, etc.

No. Foreigners are not required to wai because thais know that they dont even know how to do it properly. They give us a pass on that.

It is also a little complex too. There is 'protocol'.

Exactly, and this is why I don't wai. I know there's different positions you should put your hands in, different depths you should bow your head, and so on, and all depending on who you're wai'ing. I have no clue where my fingers should be in relation to my nose, or how far my head should be down, so it's simple... I just don't wai.

As Westerners we are forgiven our social faux pax. The intention to show respect is greater than the act itself.

Thus refusing outright to wai may be seen as disrespectful conversely attempting a flawed wai will be recognised as a positive attempt.

Thais shake hands like anyone else. Don't see a Prob.

This is my post on the topic I posted in 2008 and still valid. Updated some time line on it. Wai oh Wai topic

BTW - working at the university students wai me every day and it would be disrespectful and embarrassing to them and me not to return it.

------------------------------------------------

Pretty much every time this topic pops up it gets the same crowd.

1. Those who don't wai at anything
2. Those that only wai a certain category of people
3. The backpacker wai - wais everything, even the local soi dog.
4. The culturally aware, which appears to be a small minority.

I have been coming to Thailand for over 40 years, working here 20 years and 99.9% of my interactions are with Thai, from the lowest class to the highest class you can imagine. I made/make an effort to know the culture and its' meaning to make my daily life more pleasant. I'm at a point where I instinctively know when, where and how to wai. Not to say that I don't occasionally make a faux pas, but when I do I usually realize it immediately and kick myself for a while for doing it (in other words, I should have known better).

I talked to a Thai ajarn friend of mine at the university regarding his thoughts on farangs and waiing or not waiing. First I asked if it was a tourist or a visiting professor and he did not return a wai, what would he think. His comment was he wouldn't think anything of it knowing the person is culturally unaware. Now he made a point though and used me as an example (as an analogy for the opposite farang group). He said if he was standing somewhere out of sight and saw a Thai approach me and waied me but I didn't return the wai, he would be quite upset.

The reason is he knows me, that I have been here a long time and understand the culture, I speak the language and have a Thai wife. In other words, there is no excuse for my behavior with this person. Same with some other Thais at the university, if you refuse to wai then you do not respect the culture or the people (again, if you have been here for an extended period and not the casual visitor).

Now these are highly educated Thais who make a distinction between the various farang categories. Now try to think of lessor educated Thais and I suspect their thoughts are a little less forgiving.

One last thing and that is waiing children. Some think it is never appropriate. My ajarn friend explained that he will return a wai to a child (he will not initiate it), his reasoning is if he doesn't the child will grow up thinking it is not important. In other words, he leads by example. Funny enough, seems I see more higher class Thais returning wais to kids then others.

Handshake vs wai. Yes, not the same thing in either meaning or effect. Though having said that, it seems I remember reading that the wai originated in the same fashion as the handshake. That is, it was to show your enemy you were not holding a weapon. I'm still trying to find the history and the where and why of how the wai started. My colleague believes it originated in India.

My 2 satangs.

No. Foreigners are not required to wai because thais know that they dont even know how to do it properly. They give us a pass on that.

As Westerners we do get a pass on many things such as being forgiven for not waiing when we perhaps should, much in the same manner we forgive a Thai for not shaking hands when decorum dictates they should in a Western environment. That said, a poorly performed limp handshake is far better received than ignorance.

Thus: IMO a graceful attempt even with flawed execution shows level social grace and effort that both earns respect and endearment.

Of course - timing, location and who you are waiing is also important. Most of these little social idiosyncrasies are common sense.

when it serves me, you bet i do. mindfully.

Thais shake hands like anyone else. Don't see a Prob.

Between Thais ... usually, almost exclusively ... they don't.*

To you ... sure ... it's a concession to your culture.

* My sample set only ... mileage might vary

It is also a little complex too. There is 'protocol'.

Exactly, and this is why I don't wai. I know there's different positions you should put your hands in, different depths you should bow your head, and so on, and all depending on who you're wai'ing. I have no clue where my fingers should be in relation to my nose, or how far my head should be down, so it's simple... I just don't wai.

As Westerners we are forgiven our social faux pax. The intention to show respect is greater than the act itself.

Thus refusing outright to wai may be seen as disrespectful conversely attempting a flawed wai will be recognised as a positive attempt.

Quite true, one does not have to be centimetre perfect.

There is no shortage of people in Australia whose attitude, and bumper stickers, proclaim, 'Australia - Love It Or Leave it.'

They complain bitterly and incessantly about 'foreigners' not 'fitting in' to Australian Culture and our way of life. Not intergrating. Not assimilating. For this reason, 'Go back to where you come from' is a common phrase heard in Australia today.

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't Waiing part of Thai Culture and way of life? It was my own choice to come and live here, I wasn't forced into it, it isn't a punishment. I see things such as waiing, when appropriate, very much a part of integrating, assimilating and 'fitting in'. I do live in a non-tourist all Thai environment.

Yes, the Thais will excuse you as a foreigner, if you do not wai. But what's the harm in waiing when it is appropriate, it doesn't make you a lesser person. Or heaven forbid. An apologist!

I can show respect to people without making some weird half assed hand gestures.

I have to say I find this most out of character for you.

Are you fair dinkum? or just having a bad day?

I'm fair dinkum

There was a conversation between myself and the Head Monk via translator on this subject. It was agreed that it was appropriate and customary to Wai the Head Monk and I did so. I'm pleased to report I was taught how to do it properly and it did cause some amusement. Great.

It doesn't follow that I will use a wai on a regular occasion.

re Neeranam, I did encounter the Head Monk at 4.00am while holding a torch in my hand, I had a momentary panic and just wai'ed him anyway. Torch and all. He thought it was hysterical.

Anyway, I'm away out.....

This is my post on the topic I posted in 2008 and still valid. Updated some time line on it. Wai oh Wai topic

BTW - working at the university students wai me every day and it would be disrespectful and embarrassing to them and me not to return it.

------------------------------------------------

Pretty much every time this topic pops up it gets the same crowd.

1. Those who don't wai at anything

2. Those that only wai a certain category of people

3. The backpacker wai - wais everything, even the local soi dog.

4. The culturally aware, which appears to be a small minority.

I have been coming to Thailand for over 40 years, working here 20 years and 99.9% of my interactions are with Thai, from the lowest class to the highest class you can imagine. I made/make an effort to know the culture and its' meaning to make my daily life more pleasant. I'm at a point where I instinctively know when, where and how to wai. Not to say that I don't occasionally make a faux pax, but when I do I usually realize it immediately and kick myself for a while for doing it (in other words, I should have known better).

I talked to a Thai ajarn friend of mine at the university regarding his thoughts on farangs and waiing or not waiing. First I asked if it was a tourist or a visiting professor and he did not return a wai, what would he think. His comment was he wouldn't think anything of it knowing the person is culturally unaware. Now he made a point though and used me as an example (as an analogy for the opposite farang group). He said if he was standing somewhere out of sight and saw a Thai approach me and waied me but I didn't return the wai, he would be quite upset.

The reason is he knows me, that I have been here a long time and understand the culture, I speak the language and have a Thai wife. In other words, there is no excuse for my behavior with this person. Same with some other Thais at the university, if you refuse to wai then you do not respect the culture or the people (again, if you have been here for an extended period and not the casual visitor).

Now these are highly educated Thais who make a distinction between the various farang categories. Now try to think of lessor educated Thais and I suspect their thoughts are a little less forgiving.

One last thing and that is waiing children. Some think it is never appropriate. My ajarn friend explained that he will return a wai to a child (he will not initiate it), his reasoning is if he doesn't the child will grow up thinking it is not important. In other words, he leads by example. Funny enough, seems I see more higher class Thais returning wais to kids then others.

Handshake vs wai. Yes, not the same thing in either meaning or effect. Though having said that, it seems I remember reading that the wai originated in the same fashion as the handshake. That is, it was to show your enemy you were not holding a weapon. I'm still trying to find the history and the where and why of how the wai started. My colleague believes it originated in India.

My 2 satangs.

A bit off topic at: "3. The backpacker wai - wais everything, even the local soi dog."

My dog before: My staff thought that it is a born again person and it was addressed as Khun Sam Kha (it had 3 legs).

I am now straining my brain to remember if they wai it or not. As two of them wai a production machine it would be be possible that they wai a born again person-dog.

But really I can't recall it...they did or they did not...

I'll wai people without a second thought. I'll wai anyone, it's no skin off my nose, in fact I enjoy waiing people lower on the social ladder more. If I'm doing it wrong, I don't care and no doubt the Thais don't either. It's just about respecting another person culture.........................it doesn't stop me talking to them in a condescending way though. After all, I am British! :-)

yes I wai, it is the culture here and it shows respect to one another.

any Thai person can explain you in 5 minutes when to and when not to wai

To do not shows of complete ignorance and great disrespect imo

yes I wai, it is the culture here and it shows respect to one another.

any Thai person can explain you in 5 minutes when to and when not to wai

To do not shows of complete ignorance and great disrespect imo

and if a little bit wrong....no problem.

On the other hand if you smile friendly and nod it will also look nice

yes I wai, it is the culture here and it shows respect to one another.

To do not shows of complete ignorance and great disrespect imo

it doesn't work like that. As foreigner, a wai is not expected from you, and if you choose to wai to a Thai, there is a good chance you making him feel uncomfortable or even offended.

This is Thailand of course feel its appreciated! After all I live here!

True H90, if you smile and nod it is polite also. but there are situations that it is expected and if not so surely appreciated.

valgehiir, I think our experiences are different then again I am not so used to the customs in Pattaya

yes I wai, it is the culture here and it shows respect to one another.

To do not shows of complete ignorance and great disrespect imo

it doesn't work like that. As foreigner, a wai is not expected from you, and if you choose to wai to a Thai, there is a good chance you making him feel uncomfortable or even offended.

Offend with a Wai ??? I guess you must try really hard to offend somebody with a Wai..

Marcel1, I spend half of my time in Bangkok, if that lessens my guilt of being mainly Pattaya resident.

Guys, think of wai as a special greeting of members of a closed club, parroting the gestures and traditions of club members will never get you invitation to join the club. So don't even try, and don't look sad trying to fit in, cos you wont.

yes I wai, it is the culture here and it shows respect to one another.

To do not shows of complete ignorance and great disrespect imo

it doesn't work like that. As foreigner, a wai is not expected from you, and if you choose to wai to a Thai, there is a good chance you making him feel uncomfortable or even offended.

I would guess this would only offend the minority that have no concept that the wai is not in farang culture and therefore unfamiliar with the complexities of the action.

I would guess this would only offend the minority that have no concept that the wai is not in farang culture and therefore unfamiliar with the complexities of the action.

Im pretty sure Thais have a very good concept what wai is. We, foreigners do not.

It is understood that many foreigners do the wai in order to show how they want to fit in, be part of Thailand, and not just some tourist, to be polite, understand local culture and traditions, religion even. But we never will. Your wai is not expected nor wanted, all you do is look ignorant doing it.

Since living here, my wife has told me when to wai (slight whisper in the ear with a jab in the ribs) and when a nod and a smile is accepted.

Nowadays I have learnt that I gain more respect by wai'ing people of higher status than me, and other less formal occasions it is similar to a handshake, but I no longer feel awkward or uncomfortable performing the wai.

The same way I respect a Thai who offers his hand for a handshake...I take it, if I refused his offer, that to me would be more offensive and uncomfortable than doing an awkward wai in a situation that you weren't sure.

Cheers.

This is my post on the topic I posted in 2008 and still valid. Updated some time line on it. Wai oh Wai topic

BTW - working at the university students wai me every day and it would be disrespectful and embarrassing to them and me not to return it.

------------------------------------------------

Pretty much every time this topic pops up it gets the same crowd.

1. Those who don't wai at anything

2. Those that only wai a certain category of people

3. The backpacker wai - wais everything, even the local soi dog.

4. The culturally aware, which appears to be a small minority.

I have been coming to Thailand for over 40 years, working here 20 years and 99.9% of my interactions are with Thai, from the lowest class to the highest class you can imagine. I made/make an effort to know the culture and its' meaning to make my daily life more pleasant. I'm at a point where I instinctively know when, where and how to wai. Not to say that I don't occasionally make a faux pax, but when I do I usually realize it immediately and kick myself for a while for doing it (in other words, I should have known better).

I talked to a Thai ajarn friend of mine at the university regarding his thoughts on farangs and waiing or not waiing. First I asked if it was a tourist or a visiting professor and he did not return a wai, what would he think. His comment was he wouldn't think anything of it knowing the person is culturally unaware. Now he made a point though and used me as an example (as an analogy for the opposite farang group). He said if he was standing somewhere out of sight and saw a Thai approach me and waied me but I didn't return the wai, he would be quite upset.

The reason is he knows me, that I have been here a long time and understand the culture, I speak the language and have a Thai wife. In other words, there is no excuse for my behavior with this person. Same with some other Thais at the university, if you refuse to wai then you do not respect the culture or the people (again, if you have been here for an extended period and not the casual visitor).

Now these are highly educated Thais who make a distinction between the various farang categories. Now try to think of lessor educated Thais and I suspect their thoughts are a little less forgiving.

One last thing and that is waiing children. Some think it is never appropriate. My ajarn friend explained that he will return a wai to a child (he will not initiate it), his reasoning is if he doesn't the child will grow up thinking it is not important. In other words, he leads by example. Funny enough, seems I see more higher class Thais returning wais to kids then others.

Handshake vs wai. Yes, not the same thing in either meaning or effect. Though having said that, it seems I remember reading that the wai originated in the same fashion as the handshake. That is, it was to show your enemy you were not holding a weapon. I'm still trying to find the history and the where and why of how the wai started. My colleague believes it originated in India.

My 2 satangs.

Good points. I particularly agree with the point about returning a child's way, which I always do, since my GF made the same point a few years ago.

But, what about when I taught for a year, and between classes I went for a coffee, and 300 students coming up the stairs wai me as I'm going down?

I would guess this would only offend the minority that have no concept that the wai is not in farang culture and therefore unfamiliar with the complexities of the action.

Im pretty sure Thais have a very good concept what wai is. We, foreigners do not.

It is understood that many foreigners do the wai in order to show how they want to fit in, be part of Thailand, and not just some tourist, to be polite, understand local culture and traditions, religion even. But we never will. Your wai is not expected nor wanted, all you do is look ignorant doing it.

With respect, I disagree. Nobody has ever shown me displeasure at my wai's.

Re-read my post, I never suggested Thai's don't understand the wai.

To put it another way. If a Thai went to the UK and asked for 2 of something and made the fukc off gesture, it would take some kind of a55hole to be offended by it.

With respect, I disagree. Nobody has ever shown me displeasure at my wai's.

I'd be very surprised if they did.

I would guess this would only offend the minority that have no concept that the wai is not in farang culture and therefore unfamiliar with the complexities of the action.

Im pretty sure Thais have a very good concept what wai is. We, foreigners do not.

It is understood that many foreigners do the wai in order to show how they want to fit in, be part of Thailand, and not just some tourist, to be polite, understand local culture and traditions, religion even. But we never will. Your wai is not expected nor wanted, all you do is look ignorant doing it.

From my experience I have to disagree entirely. I have a good friend of 10+ years who would be very upset with me if I was rude enough not to wai someone he introduced me to that I should have given a wai to. He would I'm sure, be similarly pissed off if I met him and his friends (all senior to me) and didn't bother to wai them.

As far as work is involved, I imagine my Thai colleagues of many years would take me not returning a wai as me being a grumpy git that morning or something, but if I did it regularly they would be offended. As for my director and senior colleagues, why wouldn't I wai them? I'm showing respect that their seniority deserves in the country in which I choose to live and work.

Actually there's a funny thing with the wai- when it is a genuine gesture of respect, it can become irrelevant who does it first. I have many senior colleagues who I have to be like greased lightning with because they will whip out their wai before I have even started to react.

I agree with the posters who have said it's a complicated social custom and hard to understand, but if you take the time you can learn- I'd say it's easier than the language. I don't generally wai people younger than me first, unless it's someone I've known for a long, long time, similar to the situation I described above with my own senior colleagues. I don't wai children or serving staff.

So yes- Everyone who knows or meets me knows I'm not a tourist, I have a reasonably good understanding of local culture and traditions (at least enough to reciprocate the manners of those around me), and I am expected to wai by the majority of the people I know here. I don't think the people I associate with consider me to be ignorant for that.

But, what about when I taught for a year, and between classes I went for a coffee, and 300 students coming up the stairs wai me as I'm going down?

I know how that feels. When I first moved here I had a job offer at Suranaree University of Technology. The department head was showing me around the campus and every time a group of students approached us or us them they would all stop and give a deep bowing wai. Have to admit feeling uncomfortable with that level of what I perceived as nearly subservience. Assume it was to do with most coming from Isaan plus the position of this ajarn. Never see that degree though at CMU and just the normal walking wai. Often a curtsey wai from the girl students which is adorable.

But, what about when I taught for a year, and between classes I went for a coffee, and 300 students coming up the stairs wai me as I'm going down?

I know how that feels. When I first moved here I had a job offer at Suranaree University of Technology. The department head was showing me around the campus and every time a group of students approached us or us them they would all stop and give a deep bowing wai. Have to admit feeling uncomfortable with that level of what I perceived as nearly subservience. Assume it was to do with most coming from Isaan plus the position of this ajarn. Never see that degree though at CMU and just the normal walking wai. Often a curtsey wai from the girl students which is adorable.

Well, guess it beats shaking hands 300 times.