Brick work photo-- opinions, please

[FACTOR]

Any opinions on this brick work in the left of the photo? Please keep in mind this is very rural Issan and these lads are making about 6 USD per day. I am not expecting Western quality masonry.

Comments on the roof work and the wood posts welcome too, but I'd particularly like to hear what you think about the brick work. Those are going to bathrooms, two stories.

thanks,

factore

[Gsxrnz]

That's atypical Thai construction. Good luck with that, should be good for a year or two.

[mgjackson69]

It is crap work, but typical here. Most brick here is 'filler' and faced over with concrete, so the appearance is not considered important.

I suppose it will last as long as it needs to.

Sent from my Xoom using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Gsxrnz]

Seen identical work on condos, but they use cinder block. I've always had visions of some poor sod knocking a nail into the wall to hang a picture, and the whole wall just falls out by itself. No rebar, no tying to the wall, post, or roof....just a weak mortar and a few millimetres of concrete plaster to make it look reasonable.

Luckily Thailand isn't too earthquake prone.......until it happens of course.

[FACTOR]

That's atypical Thai construction. Good luck with that, should be good for a year or two.

Sorry; do you mean it is "a typical Thai construction" or "atypical ... " i.e. not typical?

[PeterSmiles]

That's atypical Thai construction. Good luck with that, should be good for a year or two.

Sorry; do you mean it is "a typical Thai construction" or "atypical ... " i.e. not typical?

Don't worry about your brick work, as another poster said it's only filling, it are the Columns and beams that are important as they carry the weight.

Make sure they use enough cement between the bricks, mixed at the right proportions, so that the bricks don't come loose. and that it is a bit straight up.

All will be covered by the rendering anyway, but the thicker the rendering the more risks you have on cracks in it.

I notice you don't have beams around your windows, which actually would have been advisable .

Edited November 28, 2013 by PeterSmiles

[Gsxrnz]

That's atypical Thai construction. Good luck with that, should be good for a year or two.

Sorry; do you mean it is "a typical Thai construction" or "atypical ... " i.e. not typical?

I meant it in two ways - sorry for the confusion, a few too many JD's tonight but my spelling and grammar appear to be standing up to the pressure .

It's "typical" of general Thai construction. It's "atypical" (as in non conforming) to generally good building practice as most of us from the west would see it. Don't try to hang a picture on th wall.

(I left out the "e" on the "th" above to prove my point about the spelling, and when I wake up in the morning I'm going to kick myself if I made a spelling mistake in this post.)

Hey no problems, the construction is OK. It's standard local practice, the wall/bricks are not load bearing, and will do the job admirably. They're essentially only fill and the concrete render will add sufficient strength to it. As long as the posts have good rebar and are sunk deep enough, it will last as long as anything else constructed in Thailand.

[sirineou]

I dont know why some one would say it is crap work, this is not finished ornamental brick, it is filler between the columns and not load bearing. From the picture it looks like they have done a straight job and all the bricks are staggered, what else would any one want from a filler wall? After they finish the outside with render it will look fine

Looks Great to me.

[FACTOR]

I dont know why some one would say it is crap work, this is not finished ornamental brick, it is filler between the columns and not load bearing. From the picture it looks like they have done a straight job and all the bricks are staggered, what else would any one want from a filler wall? After they finish the outside with render it will look fine

Looks Great to me.

thanks, sirineou, I need some positive reinforcement because I am in uncharted end waters. Thanks for your help.

[mad mary]

The brickwork is fine at least it is half bond which will give it sufficient strength .As others have said though ,has it been tied to the concrete posts ? In the UK we tie in every 6 courses(450mm) vertically on a build like yours (not suggesting that is the practice in Thailand) .I would hope that your structural brickwork has been tied in somewhere...at least ,er ...once?

Edited November 28, 2013 by mad mary

[David48]

I dont know why some one would say it is crap work, this is not finished ornamental brick, it is filler between the columns and not load bearing. From the picture it looks like they have done a straight job and all the bricks are staggered, what else would any one want from a filler wall? After they finish the outside with render it will look fine

Looks Great to me.

thanks, sirineou, I need some positive reinforcement because I am in uncharted end waters. Thanks for your help.

Presuming that you will plaster over it ... it looks great.

Indeed far better then others I've seen.

[David48]

The brickwork is fine at least it is half bond which will give it sufficient strength .As others have said though ,has it been tied to the concrete posts ? In the UK we tie in every 6 courses(450mm) vertically on a build like yours (not suggesting that is the practice in Thailand) .I would hope that your structural brickwork has been tied in somewhere...at least ,er ...once?

OP, just in-case you don't know what a 'brick tie' is, one example ...

Difficult to find an example of one for an exact example of what you would normally use.

Sometimes they (Thai construction method) just pour a post and leave some reinforcing steel sticking out to 'tie' the wall to the post.

It's a good engineering principle.

.

[cdmtdm]

looks ok to me , the filler at the top is no issue and using clay bricks is a bonus ...david they use steel rod here esp in Isaan as brick ties...not fancy but it works ...

[unanimosity]

Seen identical work on condos, but they use cinder block. I've always had visions of some poor sod knocking a nail into the wall to hang a picture, and the whole wall just falls out by itself. No rebar, no tying to the wall, post, or roof....just a weak mortar and a few millimetres of concrete plaster to make it look reasonable.

Luckily Thailand isn't too earthquake prone.......until it happens of course.

What seems to be missed here is the planned obsolesence factor of wanting it to fall down so they can come back and milk more money. Why not pay them respectably and dictate the standards to which it will be built? Of course, you may not know that yourself or you wouldn't be asking others what they think of your shoddy wall. You might consider having concrete walls built in the factory and tilted up on site and tied together with welded rebars and epoxy. If that is too much planning for you, wait till the bricks fall down and the locals will respect you for being like them.

Edited November 29, 2013 by unanimosity

[Bpuumike]

I would recommend Qcon and if you think you really need it then interior red bricks with insulation between them.

[Incobart]

Looks like good work, I saw them rarely so straight

[andreandre]

Nothing at all wrong from what i can see in the photo

That is standard Thai style construction method....don't take notice of the TV know- it -all/doodsayers about everything Thai!!

Totally different to accepted western practice for sure, but thats why i and many others live here.

The bricks [known as 'baht bricks' are only an infill, a support for the concrete render to cover.The render is the strength.The post and beam construction is the weight support/distribution system.

This render is usually/normally very high strength cement and when set and dry you tap it with a piece of steel, it will ''ring'', indicating the high strength.

High rises and most all other buildings here use this method of construction. it is well proven!!

Sure it may crack in places over time, but it is not a load bearing wall, so relax and get on with the building..

[jpduggan]

I served my time and worked a number of years as a brickie and also worked as a site foreman for several years and in my opinion that brickwork looks quite acceptable to me.

[jpduggan]

I would recommend Qcon and if you think you really need it then interior red bricks with insulation between them.

This Thailand do you want to live in an oven,insulation

[CMBob]

I'd suggest you ignore all the comments about "crap" work and the like as the construction looks perfectly normal for here in Thailand. It's not the way I'd build a wall back in the states but what you see there is standard and adequate construction for here. As for the comment about "brick ties", they're used when you're tying in a brick wall to an inner all (and, given the walls you're seeing in your photo aren't at all being tied into any inner structure, they wouldn't be applicable). What we don't see in the photo is whether the masons used any mesh of any kind within the brick wall (the mesh, sometimes simple wire or small "re-rod") can be placed every 6-10 courses to add additional strength to the wall; however, given the "brick" walls shown in your photo are not all that wide, probably not necessary.

Most of the outer and inner walls of commercial structures in most of Thailand are made the same way. Once the cement plasterers get finished and the painting is done, what you'll see is what you see everywhere here.

[FACTOR]

Thanks, guys. I'm reassured. The house is only going to be maybe 30% brick anyway, the rest being wood.

[David48]

Thanks, guys. I'm reassured. The house is only going to be maybe 30% brick anyway, the rest being wood.

Mate ... while wood is beautiful ... do you know of the EXTREME termite problem in Thailand.

They eat the paper backing of Gyprock (dry wall).

They chew through electrical wires (I kid you not).

Kitchen Benches are often made of block with a tile or stone surface.

Not trying to change your mind ... but just the reality of building here.

[andreandre]

I would recommend Qcon and if you think you really need it then interior red bricks with insulation between them.

This Thailand do you want to live in an oven,insulation

You what??

[Anon999]

The question is why are you using bricks instead of Autoclaved aerated concrete? Look at the Superblock site or similar or just google for AAC or Autoclaved aerated concrete.

[bunnydrops]

Looks better than most I have seen that gets covered. I haven't seen brick ties here in Thailand. I have seen them drill and place steel rod.

Termite where I live are unbelievable. I have seen them build "homes" in an 1/8 inch space between concrete and steel. I haven't seen them climb concrete posts but anywhere they can get a space to move dirt and moisture on a masonry wall they will take it. Had a friend that had a large wooden table. One day the table just fell over. The termites had come up through a control joint in his concrete floor and into the leg of the table and just ate it away.. .

[Chao Lao Beach]

Um, are you going to paint the steel?

Make sure they chip the welds then within an hour paint it with oxcide (prime) then give it two coats of a hard aint to protect the prime or it will be rusting in 6 months.

[Cuban]

From the detail that your one image offers the general brickwork as shown looks OK, typical Issan builders now the rice is in the bag.

More thoughts could be provided to accompany more and more detailed (clearer) images.

See a recent thread about Garden Walls for a long section I wrote about the benefits of soaking bricks before laying, weak bonding and structural cracks result when this is not done during construction.

If there is a room/s you will be using aircon most of the time you would be wise to specify Q-Con Blocks and K-Block, particularly with walls facing the sun. They are designed as thermally insulating although because they get this property from a reaction with Aluminium during production and the cost of Aluminium has increased massively over the past ten years, the blocks are now much heavier (less Aluminium generated air pockets/bubbles) and so offer less insulation. Using a double wall with Rockwool in between is a viable alternative. Thais will not see a benefit in spending an extra few thousand Baht for a second wall but think nothing about you spending an extra 500 Baht a month for aircon costs.

Thais aren't into building in a damp proofing membrane into walls and verticals, so you might get some some salting if there is damp in the soil. In many cases the soil in Issan is clay and dries out if the roof overhang is sufficient to keep the footprint of the house dry. Not a serious issue if it occurs, use a dry brush to remove it a few times then seal with a good exterior paint over the render. (I doubt plaster would be a wise choice anywhere in Issan.) On this point I suggest living with plain concrete rendering for a few months to ensure it completely cures. Concrete/molar does not "dry out" but a chemical process takes place that sets it like a glue.

Is the roof to be wood and sheeting or steel and tile?

If wood you must must must know that it is pressure treated for insect infestation and that all cut ends are painted over with the same chemical treatment.

If steel you need to have thermal isolation between the steel and the supporting pillars otherwise the tiles will collect heat during the day and then spend the night acting as a storage heater keeping the walls warm through conduction. Powered ventilation of the roof space helps but is not a cure.

Whatever the roof covering ensure that the joins, ridges and valleys in particular are water tight. If you can get agreement that they fix any leaks "discovered" next rainy season because of setting movement or "green" wood drying out you again you are wise.

The comment about ties to link the walls to the pillars is an important one, I've seen many Issan houses with cracks running along pillars big enough for lizards and geckos to come and go freely - seems silly to allow this to happen when doing it properly costs a few Baht a tie, but this needed to be done when the pillar was cast, few Issan builders will drill pillars - they don't have good enough electric drills or drill bits. The answer from Somchai will be "It OK - not fall down, Sure!"

Good luck with your project - is Thai Electrickry the next issue?

Will the brickie be doing this ?

[Nana Cowboy]

Looking great OP

[Cuban]

I haven't seen brick ties here in Thailand. I have seen them drill and place steel rod.

Builders suppliers carry them even in smaller towns, they are generally dip galvanised as well - very common when you look. If you use ungalvanised mild steel made on site from thing rod/wire there will be rusting in Thailand's humid atmosphere over time and concrete-cancer as a result. Not worth save a few Baht during construction if it costs you a rebuilt wall in the future, IMHO. Look at the end caps of cast pillars when the rebar is exposed to the atmosphere.

On termites there are long term persistent soil poisons you can spread on the soil under the flooring along the edges/access points that "should" deter future infestation.

Disodium Octaborate Tetrahydrate and Fipronil

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Termite_pre-treatment#What_are_Termite_Pre-Treatments.3F

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disodium_octaborate_tetrahydrate

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fipronil

http://www.wikihow.com/Apply-Termidor

[FACTOR]

Thanks, guys. I'm reassured. The house is only going to be maybe 30% brick anyway, the rest being wood.

Mate ... while wood is beautiful ... do you know of the EXTREME termite problem in Thailand.

They eat the paper backing of Gyprock (dry wall).

They chew through electrical wires (I kid you not).

Kitchen Benches are often made of block with a tile or stone surface.

Not trying to change your mind ... but just the reality of building here.

The wood we are using is about fifty years old, maybe a bit older, and therefore, apparently, already dry and will not warp or shrink. We got the wood by dismantling an older wooden house, and our builder eye-balled the wood for termite damage and discarded that portion proclaiming the rest of the wood would not be susceptible to termites (or less susceptible) if after fifty years they had not got to it already...

Country folk logic?