Stricter requirements, new application forms for ED visa extensions

[Maestro]

So the worry is about how the Ministry of Education will use the applicant's history of staying in Thailand as reported on the form Personal History Check in arriving at the decision whether or not to issue the MoE letter.

[uptheos]

It was a language school that pointed out these "abuses"?

Is one trying to kill his own business or be the only school that offers a solution?

song sai maak!

Walen is no fool and I'm sure he has got things lined up.

[DA3NDORPHIN3]

Im just sharing post from user @jimjams33 from other thread for ones who don't want to read the whole thread and need infos

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1 – the new rules will only effect people applying for a new ED visa and not those who already have an ED visa.

2 – That means people already with ED visa’s will not have to provide any other information when extending for either 90 days (language schools) or 1 year (Universities) other than what is normally required.

3 – This only effects new applicants who need the letter from the MOE before applying for the ED visa

4 – If you are applying for the first time then you will need to show proof of money being either transferred from abroad or withdrawn from a foreign bank account whilst in Thailand

5 – At the moment there is no definitive amount of money that need to be shown in your bank account from abroad…It actually doesn’t even ask for proof, just need to fill on the form who or how you are being supported. Bank letters from the UK (my bank Barclays does this for me anyway) stating money has been transferred to a Thai bank account in your name and or cash withdrawals from an ATM using a foreign card then that should be fine. (they just want to see how you are supporting yourself)

6 – Visa history of 2 years (if applying in Bangkok) and 1 year (if applying outside of Bangkok) is required and what the purpose of the visa was for. But for me this is a moot point as when applying for an ED visa….they have a copy of your passport with visa pages anyway.

I hope this helps people.

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Edited January 2, 2014 by DA3NDORPHIN3

[Maestro]

...

6 – Visa history of 2 years (if applying in Bangkok) and 1 year (if applying outside of Bangkok) is required and what the purpose of the visa was for. But for me this is a moot point as when applying for an ED visa….they have a copy of your passport with visa pages anyway.

I hope this helps people.

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I wonder if the MoE uses two different forms Personal History Check, one for foreigners applying to study in Bangkok asking for the travel history over the past two years, and another one for foreigners applying to study outside Bangkok asking for the travel history over one year only. Time will tell, I guess.

We are at the initial phase of the implementation of the MoE's forms Personal History Check and Purpose of Attending the Course, and reports from anybody newly applying for a non-ED visa about their experience will be very welcome in this topic and greatly appreciated.

[hathairat2711]

This week, I attended my language school and spoke with the Administrator who informed me that 'NOTHING HAS CHANGED'. Until they hear otherwise they are continuing to process ED visa applications using the same original MOE forms and income originating outside Thailand IS NOT REQUIRED.

Edited January 4, 2014 by hathairat2711

[Sceptict11]

This week, I attended my language school and spoke with the Administrator who informed me that 'NOTHING HAS CHANGED'. Until they hear otherwise they are continuing to process ED visa applications using the same original MOE forms and income originating outside Thailand IS NOT REQUIRED.

They are on the hunt for the scammers .............

Do not worry they will eventually catch up!

[Maestro]

This week, I attended my language school and spoke with the Administrator who informed me that 'NOTHING HAS CHANGED'. Until they hear otherwise they are continuing to process ED visa applications using the same original MOE forms and income originating outside Thailand IS NOT REQUIRED.

In what province was that. There was information that for the time being the two new MoE forms would be used on for applications at schools in Bangkok.

[hathairat2711]

This week, I attended my language school and spoke with the Administrator who informed me that 'NOTHING HAS CHANGED'. Until they hear otherwise they are continuing to process ED visa applications using the same original MOE forms and income originating outside Thailand IS NOT REQUIRED.

In what province was that. There was information that for the time being the two new MoE forms would be used on for applications at schools in Bangkok.

The school where I attend is indeed central Bangkok.

If you require the name of the school Maestro, pm me and I will be happy to divulge this info,

Edited January 5, 2014 by hathairat2711

[Maestro]

No, I was just interested in the geographical location, after having read that the MoE was going to roll it out in Bangkok for a start. I have a feeling that the MoE officials don't really have their heart in it, that they were pressured by immigration to introduce the two new forms, which look very much like immigration designed them for the MoE.

With the ongoing demonstrations, being able to get to work is likely to be a more immediate concern for the MoE officials than getting bogged down in additional paperwork and procedures. Perhaps they haven't even been trained yet in how to incorporate the information provided on the forms in their decision making regarding the MoE letter for individual students. Just looking at the number of data fields on the two forms boggles the mind.

Form: Personal History Check

Form: Purpose of Attending the Course

[moe666]

Hard to believe or not, many freelancers use this ED visa to stay and work illegally.

The problem is that ED visa does not allow to work, as in other countries like in Europe and the US.

If the ED visa was harder to get, but at the same time allowed to work maybe 10-20 hours a week, would be good and help people get their legal status.

but, again, this can be abused too. and I think the system in Thailand is not ready for this.

If you are in the US on a Education Visa you cannot work. The immigration service will issue you a social security card but on it will be stamped cannot work. I know this because of a Kiwi who went to University with my son and he had a social security card stamped as I explained. He did work some odd jobs for cash but it was illegal.

[l3fty]

I am a little confused on the 2 year history part.. If you have 2 years history of a tourist visa would that not be more of a reason to deny an Education visa? I have had a double entry tourist visa and would now legitmatelly like to study in Thailand but do not have 2 years of Thai visa history but only 6-8 months. Is this something they're absolutely strict about?

[ubonjoe]

It means the past two years as being what they want at the most. If you have less than that it is not a problem.

[l3fty]

It means the past two years as being what they want at the most. If you have less than that it is not a problem.

Ahh okay thanks ubonjoe, the wording in the initial post sounds a bit ambigous.

[crazydrummerpauly]

Amazing Thailand! They make it harder and harder for me to live here and dump my money into the their economy. When will realize that there are people in this world who are under 50 yrs old and don't have to work?

There is another rumour that retirement visas will be starting again at 55. I believe it was this age in the past and it was lowered to 50.

Wow - that would cause a meltdown of TV !!! It is - as you know - an 'Extension based on retirement' - no such thing as a 'Retirement Visa', strictly speaking ! (i see the accusations of pedantry coming over the horizon...)

[wolf5370]

Hard to believe or not, many freelancers use this ED visa to stay and work illegally.

The problem is that ED visa does not allow to work, as in other countries like in Europe and the US.

If the ED visa was harder to get, but at the same time allowed to work maybe 10-20 hours a week, would be good and help people get their legal status.

but, again, this can be abused too. and I think the system in Thailand is not ready for this.

This may well be the case, but surely then they should decide whether this is desirable or not - and if not, clamping down under the existing law (not allowed to work in ED visa and not being allowed to work without a WP). Seems little point adding in a new rule when the problem is already covered by an existing one. In fact, it would not be hard for a freelancer to show income - usually they don't use Thai bank accounts directly - and even if they do, the money usually comes from abroad and thus shows income. This is typical soft target lip service stuff - the real abusers will not be hit - the ones that will, be will be retirees that can not meet the retirement income so study and have an ED visa instead. These people cause no damage to the economy as they don't work and bring in foreign money and spend it here.

[mataleo]

So anyone experienced problems with new rules?

mataleo

[bobroper]

There are no new rules. Nothing has changed.

Enjoy.

[Metanoia]

I've signed up an account because I'm interested in studying Thai language in the near future.

Read through a few threads but couldn't make sense of some visa requirements.

My interpretation of info so far is that a foreigner in Thailand should not be working (whether locally or online) without a WP, but how would then would one generate "a source of income" for the ED-visa?

Or do "income" here simply means sufficient bank savings rather than a constant monthly inflow of money?

[ubonjoe]

Income can be savings in your home country or what you have brought into a bank here. For some it could be pension or disability income and etc.

Income could be from any source from outside the country.

[Metanoia]

So if I'm a self employed person who intends to take a year off from work (thus no income) for an ED Visa, the backing document would be a current bank statement?

[ubonjoe]

A bank statement would be accepted as long as there is enough to support yourself for a extended period of time.

[bangkoklasse]

Proof of income? Aren't they studying, and not working?

How can you study in a foreign country without money or income?

[bangkoklasse]

This is gonna cause massive problems for some people. Not to mention learning centres disappearing fast! How do Walen aim to make life easier for its students and customers? Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Maybe the Learning centers should concentrate more on the learning/school part of their business, instead of the visa part

[Metanoia]

A bank statement would be accepted as long as there is enough to support yourself for a extended period of time.

Thanks for the quick replies. Much appreciated.

Proof of income? Aren't they studying, and not working?

How can you study in a foreign country without money or income?

Perhaps the concern is on the term "income", which could be interpreted as a "monthly inflow of money from employment", in which case would sound contradictory to a ED Visa terms.

[Tomtomtom69]

Hard to believe or not, many freelancers use this ED visa to stay and work illegally.

The problem is that ED visa does not allow to work, as in other countries like in Europe and the US.

If the ED visa was harder to get, but at the same time allowed to work maybe 10-20 hours a week, would be good and help people get their legal status.

but, again, this can be abused too. and I think the system in Thailand is not ready for this.

If you are in the US on a Education Visa you cannot work. The immigration service will issue you a social security card but on it will be stamped cannot work. I know this because of a Kiwi who went to University with my son and he had a social security card stamped as I explained. He did work some odd jobs for cash but it was illegal.

I was an international student studying in the USA on a student visa. The rules at the time stated that you could only work on-campus and even then permission would be required from the international office (who liaise with immigration). Off-campus work is forbidden, although there are clauses that allow international students to work in internships required as part of their studies, but this would likely only be a one off during the entire study period and short term (up to 3 months).

[srchino]

So anyone experienced problems with new rules?

mataleo

Yup, was stopped at immigration on a one year ED visa the other day and put through the paces. They eventually let me enter but I'm thinking that they are putting the new policies in place.

[i claudius]

Came home yesterday and met a lad on a ed visa ,as i was going through immegration i saw him being marched off by a guy in uniform ,trouble?

[MacWalen]

If you claim you learn Thai you need to be able to speak enough to demonstrate that you really learn this language. For example what is your name or where are you from. After learning for a year it should not be a problem, right? Don't abuse the system. Also if you make a thousand trips per year you may not look like a genuine student, also some may have dodgy ED visas issued unofficially without any registration with a certified school done by some "lawyers". If you do things legally and learn Thai as you are supposed to, you should not have any problems.

[wolf5370]

If you claim you learn Thai you need to be able to speak enough to demonstrate that you really learn this language. For example what is your name or where are you from. After learning for a year it should not be a problem, right? Don't abuse the system. Also if you make a thousand trips per year you may not look like a genuine student, also some may have dodgy ED visas issued unofficially without any registration with a certified school done by some "lawyers". If you do things legally and learn Thai as you are supposed to, you should not have any problems.

Yes this isn't all that new either. I remember a post here a year or two back when I guy was challenged on his third Ed Visa - the Thai Immigration Officer prompted him, "Plah yai gin plah lek" - simple statement, anyone been studying more than a few months should be able to give a reply - after 2 years, should expect an humorous or deeper answer than just agreement.

Edited May 26, 2014 by wolf5370

[ubonjoe]

So anyone experienced problems with new rules?

mataleo

Yup, was stopped at immigration on a one year ED visa the other day and put through the paces. They eventually let me enter but I'm thinking that they are putting the new policies in place.

That is because you apparently have a multiple entry non-ed visa. That can be issued for many types of study not just language.

Some people have been able to get them with just enrollment paperwork and have never spent a day in any kind of school that is why immigration will pull a person to the side to talk to them.