Thailand on the brink

[Emptyset]

I got as far as "The conflict is being waged between rival factions of the elite, but also on class, ethnic and regional fronts" and it became apparent that the author is a buffoon

Seriously? So you think it either doesn't involve class, ethnic and regional fronts (it obviously does) or that it's not a conflict waged between rival factions of the elite (it isn't?) ...

[Thaddeus]

Thailand on the brink

Interesting article, a mix of red rhetorid and fact.........

"The stage seems set for a showdown between anti-government forces, backed by powerful vested interests, and a flawed but democratically elected government that enjoys mass support, especially in its rural heartlands. The conflict is being waged between rival factions of the elite, but also on class, ethnic and regional fronts. Predicting the future in Thai politics is futile, but more mass protests and bloodshed on the streets seem inevitable.

Over the past two months, tens – perhaps hundreds – of thousands of protesters have taken to the streets of the capital Bangkok to demand less democracy, and the overthrow of Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra’s government."

Such an even handed objective statement from this journalist and it the prelude to the unbiased approach well research and accurate political article. But enough of satire

Truth hurts.................

And like an iceberg, most of it is never seen.

[Loles]

Thailand always on the brink. What is the news?

[pantareiyingluck]

Human Rights Watch has described Thaksin as “a human rights abuser of the worst kind".......has anybody the link for me to read Human Rights Watch stated this? I can't find it..........

In that case Thaksin can join the seat with Abhisit who forcefully deported 4.715 Lao H'mong refugees in December 2009. HRW described that as the reason why Thailand tumbled down on the list of civilised countries.

A Human Rights Abuser of the worst kind, I would think an Assad with chemical weapons. Or Idi Amin. That category of animals.

[Jingthing]

Thailand always on the brink. What is the news?

How long have you been here?

This is becoming really bad now.

It has been building to this for many years.

Something is going to happen and I don't mean just another coup, which in historical terms, is not particularly remarkable.

[pantareiyingluck]

Perhaps it is now time for the people of the North and North East who for some reason feel that they and they alone are the voice of Thailand to be put in their place. I am sick and tired of hearing how these rural poor puppets of the Shins think that they cast the deciding vote on the future of this country simply by being paid or being ignorant or possible a combination of both. Isan is only part of Thailand and perhaps it is the agricultural hub but it is not the intellectual nor educated center of this country. They have been used as pawns and cannon fodder by the Thaksin clan to the detriment of the development of this nation. This is not an issue that can be defined as being between the Bangkok elite and the rural poor. The Thaksin regime is as much part of the elite as any other group. They are multi millionaires who simply use the people in order to keep milking this country and keep themselves in an ultra elite lifestyle. Surely you can only fool all of the people some of the time , that is unless they are brain dead. I am no fan of SUTHEP , However this country needs to rid itself of the hypocritical parasites of the Shin clan and the ineffectual PTP lackeys.

Regime = an authoritarian Government. Is there any proof this Government is pushing things through un-democratically??? The amnesty bill had all opportunity to be rejected, Yingluck asked people to join talks. I am sick and tired to read these dumb dogma's. A regime is not what the present Government is performing here. It is simply a lie to expose it this way. You want to see a regime; look at Burma. Or Syria. Where people live in fear.

[PREM-R]

Perhaps it is now time for the people of the North and North East who for some reason feel that they and they alone are the voice of Thailand to be put in their place. I am sick and tired of hearing how these rural poor puppets of the Shins think that they cast the deciding vote on the future of this country simply by being paid or being ignorant or possible a combination of both. Isan is only part of Thailand and perhaps it is the agricultural hub but it is not the intellectual nor educated center of this country. They have been used as pawns and cannon fodder by the Thaksin clan to the detriment of the development of this nation. This is not an issue that can be defined as being between the Bangkok elite and the rural poor. The Thaksin regime is as much part of the elite as any other group. They are multi millionaires who simply use the people in order to keep milking this country and keep themselves in an ultra elite lifestyle. Surely you can only fool all of the people some of the time , that is unless they are brain dead. I am no fan of SUTHEP , However this country needs to rid itself of the hypocritical parasites of the Shin clan and the ineffectual PTP lackeys.

Isaan accounts for just 1 in 3 of the population of Thailand, therefore their voting influence can only be 33.3% of the electorate. If the Dems with their "educated middleclass" supporters cannot win an election with 66.6% of the voters, then how can you blame the Isaan people for the Dems being unable to get elected.

[Thaiready]

The Truth been told...finally.

[pantareiyingluck]

I cannot hear this shit with "democratically elected government"anymore!

They paid the rural volks to vote for them and the undereducated rural volk did not know better...cross here and the next bottle of thai wiskey on the new government.

I'm by NO means a Thaksin or Red Shirt fan, but I cannot hear this shit with - paid the rural to vote for them and the under educated didn't know any better IGNORANT, ELITEST BULLSHIT anymore! Apparently you, like other fools, believe that Thaksin and his parties INVENTED vote buying, instead of accepting the truth that it was around long before Thaksin was little more than a lustful gleam in his father's eye. And I guess it might be safe to assume that you totally missed the interview with Korn, a DEMOCRAT LEADER, who flat out admitted that in the last election, the DEMS SPENT MORE THAT PTP, and they STILL LOST, and that Vote Buying had NOTHING TO DO with the outcome of the vote.

I'll tell you the same thing I tell the Thaksonites and Red Shirts - Clean the tint off your glasses and look at the Real World.

By the way, with the spelling and grammatical errors in YOUR post, you have very little ground to be calling anyone else "under educated".

Absolutely agree! Get off this stupid vote-buying nonsense! I have recently been north and talked to many people about this - all say yes, money has been offered - they already know who they're going to vote for, but some idiot comes to give them money, so they take it! Easy! It has no measurable effect on how people decide to vote. A real example.... my wife was given Bt.1,000 by a Dem politician last election (we live south of BKK)...she took the money, but didn't vote for him.

North of Korat (Nakhon Ratchasima). The area / village where Thailand nr. 1 popular female singer Tuktan Chollada comes from.......Democratic Party Bonzo's visiting the villages and paying 500 - 1000 baht per vote. During Abhisit's 'regime' + 65 aged persons were waiting in vain for their 500 Thb monthly pension; it wasn't paid for months during 2010......no no, with Thaksin it is all corruption and vote buying. But with the Abhisit Sucko's we look the other way?

[Publicus]

Perhaps it is now time for the people of the North and North East who for some reason feel that they and they alone are the voice of Thailand to be put in their place. I am sick and tired of hearing how these rural poor puppets of the Shins think that they cast the deciding vote on the future of this country simply by being paid or being ignorant or possible a combination of both. Isan is only part of Thailand and perhaps it is the agricultural hub but it is not the intellectual nor educated center of this country. They have been used as pawns and cannon fodder by the Thaksin clan to the detriment of the development of this nation. This is not an issue that can be defined as being between the Bangkok elite and the rural poor. The Thaksin regime is as much part of the elite as any other group. They are multi millionaires who simply use the people in order to keep milking this country and keep themselves in an ultra elite lifestyle. Surely you can only fool all of the people some of the time , that is unless they are brain dead. I am no fan of SUTHEP , However this country needs to rid itself of the hypocritical parasites of the Shin clan and the ineffectual PTP lackeys.

The population of the northern arc from Myanmar to Cambodia have legitimate concerns and aspirations that are socioeconomic, cultural, political in nature.

Trying to dismiss those concerns is exactly what the elites have been doing for a long time, most intensively and urgently recently. Thaksin recognized this and cynically seized on it and Suthep in reaction is Thaksin's opposite number. A curse on both their houses.

The focus here is on the real life, everyday and longer term concerns of a significant swathe of Thai people who are seeking inclusion but who consistently have had the door slammed in their face by the reactionary and selfish feudal elites that are determined to continue their exclusion. This is simply and plainly untenable.

The elites learn nothing. Can they learn?

Certainly not yet, if ever.

[lifeincnx]

Dont believe he stay in BKK and when, he not going out of the house...Most is right, but the class and the mount of the Protestors are definetly wrong.

And, he not explain, why the people protests...

Nothing about Governments wrongdoing against the constitution

Nothing about corruption going worse

Nothing about the rice pledging scheme...

Nothing about the planned Trillion Bath loan

Nothing about the amnesty bill

So for me, its better than AFP, but far away from good journalism...

And while we're on the the subject of what was left out of this well written, balanced piece...

There was no mention of:Suthep giving Sor Por Kor title deeds (agriculture use only) on 592 prime plots of land to 489 farmers. Somehow members of Thailand's 11 wealthy families in Phuket were among the recipients.

There was also no mention of the PM of the Democrat Party in 1995 dissolving the House of Representatives in order to avoid the no-confidence debate because of the same Suthep land scandal.

Nor any mention of, thanks to Wikileaks, the diplomatic cables from the US embassy revealing that many members of his own party have long complained of Suthep's corrupt and unethical behavior.

How about no mention of Suthep's 2009 disqualification as an MP for violating the Thai constitution, by holding an equity stake in a media firm that received concessions from the government. He resigned before the Constitutional Court could rule.

Almost forgot - there was no mention of the criminal court ruling that deaths and injuries sustained by red-shirt protesters during the political unrest in April and May 2010 were the direct result of orders to soldiers given by Suthep.

And he's the guy who wants to "appoint" the reform council before any elections?

Edited January 8, 2014 by lifeincnx

[fab4]

I got as far as "The conflict is being waged between rival factions of the elite, but also on class, ethnic and regional fronts" and it became apparent that the author is a buffoon

So you'd complete disagree with this then

“What we are witnessing is a desperate last-ditch battle by Thailand’s old feudal elite to hang on to their ancient power and privilege and prevent the county moving forward into the 21st century,” said MacGregor Marshall. “It is an impossible, quixotic struggle, and they are losing — hence their desperation, which makes them dangerous. The country is maturing, and the struggles we are seeing are the growing pains of an emerging democracy.”

My, how must the truth hurt.

[tomtom47]

1. Just to paraphrase the above post. I think that the Thai people, even those who hate Thaksin, need to forget him and move on the the betterment of the country. Their intense hatred for this man has blinded them to what Suthep and Co. have been doing to this country. In the eyes of the outside world, it's pretty clear that Suthep's goal is the elimination of the Shinawatra name and memory and he is willing to accomplish this no matter what the cost - even to the point where the country is torn apart and ruined. It's time for many in this country (and also many on TVF) to finally open their eyes before it's too late.

QuoteThe current protests were sparked in November, when the government clumsily tried to push through an amnesty bill that would have pardoned thousands of people convicted of politically related crimes between 2003 and last year.

This would have paved the way for the return of Thaksin, a deeply polarizing figure who is loved by his supporters and loathed by his enemies.

 

 

Yeap, above was definitely the fuse for the latest political bomb.   Me thinks the Thai people, even those who like Thaksin, need to forget him and move on for the betterment of the country.

 

 

[Toscano]

DocN

I believe I do know Thainess . In my village people light fires , no matter that the smoke might fill a neighbours house . People play music they like so

loud that it can be heard over the whole village . Advertising vans pass by shout so loud as to deafen one , some have parked for a break right outside our

house with the shouted message still going , I have complained and asked them to move on . My Thai wife gets upset and tells me Thai people do what they

like .

Truth is , no matter the reforms and anti corruption , corruption will continue as usual , because ordinary Thai people have no qualms about flouting the

law , Thai people just do what they like without consideration for anybody else or the law .

[robertson468]

Dont believe he stay in BKK and when, he not going out of the house...Most is right, but the class and the mount of the Protestors are definetly wrong.

And, he not explain, why the people protests...

Nothing about Governments wrongdoing against the constitution

Nothing about corruption going worse

Nothing about the rice pledging scheme...

Nothing about the planned Trillion Bath loan

Nothing about the amnesty bill

So for me, its better than AFP, but far away from good journalism...

I agree wholeheartedly and in my opinion, this is a biased piece of journalism. Also there is nothing about the alleged drug dealers who died under Thaksin's watch, or who is to blame for hundreds being piled in an Army Truck and transported, only to suffocate, or the tax evasion on the sale of his satellite company. I can see and understand what Suthep is trying to achieve, albeit it looks clumsy and somewhat amatuerish, however that might be because he is not yet prepared to put all his cards on the table and with a willy opponent such as Thaksin, who can blame him?

[Rob8891]

A well-written piece. It makes me wish Thailand could reform, but not Suthep's way. They need to find a way go sweep away the main protagonists and try to elect those who might engage in non-confrontational politics (at least for a while!) to give the country some time to recover from this turmoil.

But that is western-style thinking..... TiT. ?

you don't get fair elections without reforms first.

You advocate destroying the democratic process, flawed as it may be, so that an unelected panel, with unlimited decision-making powers and an an open-ended timeframe, can set up 'reforms' and decide when the country is ready for democracy?

What utter nonsense.

No, you misunderstood my post. I advocated sweeping away ALL the main protagonists... the Shinawatras & co and Suthep & co. With them at the helm, Thailand will only steam full speed ahead for the rocks. I don't support the concept of an unelected group leading the country. That is not true democracy, but nor is returning the current PTP, led by a fugitive from justice (or the protestors led by a previously convicted corrupt individual who now faces further charges).

REAL reform is needed (don't ask how as I have no answer, or I'd be a genius). But unless a way can be found for the country to escape this political nightmare, all that an election will bring is more of the same antagonism and division.

So no, it was not utter nonsense. As with all too many people here (and in the real world), I'm afraid you jumped the gun.

[DocN]

DocN

I believe I do know Thainess . In my village people light fires , no matter that the smoke might fill a neighbours house . People play music they like so

loud that it can be heard over the whole village . Advertising vans pass by shout so loud as to deafen one , some have parked for a break right outside our

house with the shouted message still going , I have complained and asked them to move on . My Thai wife gets upset and tells me Thai people do what they

like .

Truth is , no matter the reforms and anti corruption , corruption will continue as usual , because ordinary Thai people have no qualms about flouting the

law , Thai people just do what they like without consideration for anybody else or the law .

You still don't understand sarcasm, when you see it?!

[Toscano]

Perhaps it is now time for the people of the North and North East who for some reason feel that they and they alone are the voice of Thailand to be put in their place. I am sick and tired of hearing how these rural poor puppets of the Shins think that they cast the deciding vote on the future of this country simply by being paid or being ignorant or possible a combination of both. Isan is only part of Thailand and perhaps it is the agricultural hub but it is not the intellectual nor educated center of this country. They have been used as pawns and cannon fodder by the Thaksin clan to the detriment of the development of this nation. This is not an issue that can be defined as being between the Bangkok elite and the rural poor. The Thaksin regime is as much part of the elite as any other group. They are multi millionaires who simply use the people in order to keep milking this country and keep themselves in an ultra elite lifestyle. Surely you can only fool all of the people some of the time , that is unless they are brain dead. I am no fan of SUTHEP , However this country needs to rid itself of the hypocritical parasites of the Shin clan and the ineffectual PTP lackeys.

..............................................................................................................................................................

"Isan is only part of Thailand and perhaps it is the agricultural hub but it is not the intellectual nor educated center of this country. They have been used as pawns and cannon fodder by the Thaksin clan to the detriment of the development of the nation "

Thailand doesn't have an intellectual or educated centre ! Apart from a very few , all the people in Thailand are ignorant , some more ignorant than others

and not necessarily the people of Isaan .

Isaan people have for years been the pawns of the elite , wealthy , big business , to work for a pittance in Bangkok or wherever .

[Riverman63]

I cannot hear this shit with "democratically elected government"anymore!

They paid the rural volks to vote for them and the undereducated rural volk did not know better...cross here and the next bottle of thai wiskey on the new government.

In the UK they promise tax cuts instead

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

[Bakseeda]

This is the most accurate analysis of the current situation from amongst the rubble of rhetoric emanating from both sides. This article doesn't tell us where the country is going, but it clearly elucidates how it got to this situation, Everyone who contributes to this debate on ThaiVisa should read this first.

Seems to me to have been written by the BBC.... It's the kind of <deleted> they love to churn out.......

[Bakseeda]

A well-written piece. It makes me wish Thailand could reform, but not Suthep's way. They need to find a way go sweep away the main protagonists and try to elect those who might engage in non-confrontational politics (at least for a while!) to give the country some time to recover from this turmoil.

But that is western-style thinking..... TiT. ?

you don't get fair elections without reforms first.

You advocate destroying the democratic process, flawed as it may be, so that an unelected panel, with unlimited decision-making powers and an an open-ended timeframe, can set up 'reforms' and decide when the country is ready for democracy?

What utter nonsense.

Just in case you have not noticed.....The democratic process does NOT work here in Thailand... Go back to your own cosy little country if you have nothing constructive to add... don't forget your KY...

[bigbamboo]

I got as far as "The conflict is being waged between rival factions of the elite, but also on class, ethnic and regional fronts" and it became apparent that the author is a buffoon

So you'd complete disagree with this then

“What we are witnessing is a desperate last-ditch battle by Thailand’s old feudal elite to hang on to their ancient power and privilege and prevent the county moving forward into the 21st century,” said MacGregor Marshall. “It is an impossible, quixotic struggle, and they are losing — hence their desperation, which makes them dangerous. The country is maturing, and the struggles we are seeing are the growing pains of an emerging democracy.”

My, how must the truth hurt.

Some people seem to be forgetting that over eleven million of these elite intellectuals voted for the Dems last time and that was with PTP promising that every Thai would be rich within six months. Even with Mad Sooty's crazy antics there are a going to be a lot of disaffected poor PT voters out there wondering why their particular number still hasn't come up yet, not to mention all those rice farmers whose handouts have been 'mislaid'.

Some people are also forgetting why this movement started. My sympathies are with the average Thai not the elite (I don't even subscribe to Mr Thaksin's elitist Elite Card scheme) and I don't like to see them and their country robbed blind by greedy officials whatever shirt colour they favour.

S

Edited January 8, 2014 by bigbamboo

[laobali]

Farang not know thainess....

And many Thai not understand Thai and 'Thainess'

[Carrerakiss]

I cannot hear this shit with "democratically elected government"anymore!

They paid the rural volks to vote for them and the undereducated rural volk did not know better...cross here and the next bottle of thai wiskey on the new government.

Who are you calling uneducated, Mr Maseratiman? I live in the North and graduated from university, as did a lot of other people. I may or may not like Thaksin, that is for me to know, but don't call people names unless you want to be called some yourself.

Oh, and I drive a Porsche, not a bunch of nuts and bolts that's as likely to fall to bits as it is to reach 100kph.

[laobali]

Thailand on the brink

Just like my fridge.

Don't you mean flidge?

[bbbbooboo]

......on the brink of even more stupidity I suggest

[Ulic]

That pretty well sums things up and hits the nail on the head.

Time to get rid of both parties or at least have an all new slate of candidates.

Edited January 8, 2014 by Ulic

[metisdead]

AN inflammatory post has been removed.

[Jim walker]

rule by an appointed council of “good people” In Thailand you must be joking good people! Greed is good not people

[laobali]

Flawed article. ... so flawed, It's nothing more than a waste of server space.

The views expressed in the article would appear to clash with your own, why not put forward your counter arguments?

Better still, come up with a solution. ROFlawL.