I read an interesting post here that got me thinking for a change, the post stated it would be nice to give all bar girls enough money so they could quit the bar life.

Now I'm no expert but I don't believe most of the bars girls are really so hard up they have to do it, it's a choice made because it pays better then some work, and has far less hours.

In my opinion I believe it's better to keep your dignity and suffer in a factory, that's just my opinion, does not mean I'm right, however should people really pity them, most do have a choice, most can walk away.

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When it comes to money, for people that are fixated on getting more, there is never enough.

IMO most BGs are much more empowered and have a lot more dignity and control over their life than if they pursued most of the other options open to them given their background.

And it's not just a few that hit the jackpot and end up happily married overseas.

When it comes to money, for people that are fixated on getting more, there is never enough.

IMO most BGs are much more empowered and have a lot more dignity and control over their life than if they pursued most of the other options open to them given their background.

And it's not just a few that hit the jackpot and end up happily married overseas.

How much dignity and respect does one have in being a slave to the almighty dollar.

How much empowerment and control comes with being a slave to money.

The choice I believe is mentally damaging to them in the long run, it surely can't be denied that they suffer mentally and emotionally from the profession.

Most I believe are unaware of what they are getting into, a rosy picture is painted by friends to seduce them into it, the harsh reality kicks in once they start working, a prostitute once told my father she dates a pimp because she likes to wake up next to someone lower then herself, yet she still does it, a statement like that shows the damage done to her self confidence, not exactly empowering.

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Supply & demand:

If all bar girls went to work in factories then they'd be guys waving silly money in their faces.

Supply & demand:

If all bar girls went to work in factories then they'd be guys waving silly money in their faces.

I have no problem with it, personal choice.

I just don't feel they have to do it like some people think, they choose to despite having other options, they have that right but it's a choice.

It's not about right or wrong this thread, it's about choice, I don't believe they have no choice and have to do it, they do it because they want to.

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So swap : hanging out with your mates, getting drunk, staying up all night, flashing lights, money, main goal is to get pulled, listening to pop music,
For clocking-in, officious man telling you to make more radios or whatever, up early, no or little holidays..

I think they all have a choice, and its not a difficult one..
I think once they get accustomed to bar-life they rather enjoy it, and who can blame them?

Well, I'm not an expert on it at all, but I imagine that a lot of them are working partially to support family back home. And I think when you talk about choice you're looking at it from a western perspective, rather than a Thai cultural one, where I think the sense of duty and pressure of being a good child to your family and support them can be a lot of stronger.

Like I say, I'm not an expert and might well be wrong but I don't think viewing from a western perspective is going to be that illuminating.

edited for spelling

So swap : hanging out with your mates, getting drunk, staying up all night, flashing lights, money, main goal is to get pulled, listening to pop music,

For clocking-in, officious man telling you to make more radios or whatever, up early, no or little holidays..

I think they all have a choice, and its not a difficult one..

I think once they get accustomed to bar-life they rather enjoy it, and who can blame them?

Each to his own, if I was a woman I would work seven days a week sixteen hours a day before I even contemplated the bar work.

Self respect is important.

I could never sleep with a bar girl knowing she is watching the clock, knowing I'm just a dollar sign, just a customer.

I could never date a girl who sold out to that point for money, knowing she had thousands of men, trust would be difficult to as hustling becomes ingrained in them after a while.

If a man can take it fine, not for me I would rather go without then get involved with one.

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Well, I'm not an expert on it at all, but I imagine that a lot of them are working partially to support family back home. And I think when you talk about choice you're looking at it from a western perspective, rather than a Thai cultural one, where I think the sense of duty and pressure of being a good child to your family and support them can be a lot of stronger.

Like I say, I'm not an expert and might well be wrong but I don't think viewing from a western perspective is going to be that illuminating.

edited for spelling

Many of my thai friends got me thinking about this also in the past.

I used to say bar girls don't have a choice, they would say bs, they choose it, plenty of work around.

I don't think my friends and wife have a western perspective, they are thai, ask some thai people tomorrow and I think you well get the same answer.

No mother with any morals would want their daughter to do this, sure they would sooner see them paid less in a legal and legit job.

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You also talk about western perspective, the average thai woman is strongly against bar work and the shadow it casts on good thai woman.

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If you were a male gogo dancer, would you want to quit?

Kangabollox have you ever been with a BarGirl?

Sad life when you have seen more dickends than weekends

Sad life when you have seen more dickends than weekends

Funny, made me laugh.....although in thailand every day feels like a weekend !

The problems are that many girls, who get into this sort of work, including bars and within the sex industries, become institutionalised into it and then it`s extremely difficult for them to change their lifestyles and seek alternative careers.

It is known that even the girls who were driven into beerbar work either through poverty or as forced labour at first will still become institutionalised and quite often will return back to the bar even if offered what we may consider as better alternatives, either by marriage or career wise.

It is true the saying; that in most cases it is possible to take the girl out of the bar but not possible to take the bar out of the girl. Anyone who decides to try and form long term relationships with them and become their knight in shining armour to the rescue maybe battling against a lost cause, although of course there will always be exceptions to the rule, but my guess is these a few and far between for reasons I have mentioned.

Sad but true.

The trouble is that to many sex tourist, and others do not know anything about Thailand its Politics or culture to have any idea why some girls women Work the bars. they do not understand or want to understand why 99% do it,

I'm sure there are many reasons why girls and guys work in bars. I think the majority enjoy it and wouldn't want a 9-5 job if you offered it on a plate.

I work on very large motor yachts. Either owned or chartered by some of the wealthiest people out there.

These yachts are not environmentally friendly, waste massive amounts of resources, plus in lots of cases are sexually and racially discriminate.

Like a lot of people who work on these boats, I always say just a couple more years and I'll be done, as I don't agree with lots of aspects within the industry. The truth is, I'm a prostitute (albeit an engineering one) to the wealthy. I could do lots of other jobs but the money and lifestyle just keep pulling me back.

I think we are all slaves to our greed in one way or another...

I'm sure there are many reasons why girls and guys work in bars. I think the majority enjoy it and wouldn't want a 9-5 job if you offered it on a plate.

I work on very large motor yachts. Either owned or chartered by some of the wealthiest people out there.

These yachts are not environmentally friendly, waste massive amounts of resources, plus in lots of cases are sexually and racially discriminate.

Like a lot of people who work on these boats, I always say just a couple more years and I'll be done, as I don't agree with lots of aspects within the industry. The truth is, I'm a prostitute (albeit an engineering one) to the wealthy. I could do lots of other jobs but the money and lifestyle just keep pulling me back.

I think we are all slaves to our greed in one way or another...

So deluded . not even in the same area let alone about bar girls. Did you get abused by your family or your Husband beat you, gamble or just pimp you out for money. Did your brother do the same, or did your parents sell , give you away.did some foreigner promise you the world and blatantly lie to you, we a lot of these girls have been there, so like i say not in the same area., you have free will a lot of these girls never had.

I'm sure there are many reasons why girls and guys work in bars. I think the majority enjoy it and wouldn't want a 9-5 job if you offered it on a plate.

I work on very large motor yachts. Either owned or chartered by some of the wealthiest people out there.

These yachts are not environmentally friendly, waste massive amounts of resources, plus in lots of cases are sexually and racially discriminate.

Like a lot of people who work on these boats, I always say just a couple more years and I'll be done, as I don't agree with lots of aspects within the industry. The truth is, I'm a prostitute (albeit an engineering one) to the wealthy. I could do lots of other jobs but the money and lifestyle just keep pulling me back.

I think we are all slaves to our greed in one way or another...

So deluded . not even in the same area let alone about bar girls. Did you get abused by your family or your Husband beat you, gamble or just pimp you out for money. Did your brother do the same, or did your parents sell , give you away.did some foreigner promise you the world and blatantly lie to you, we a lot of these girls have been there, so like i say not in the same area., you have free will a lot of these girls never had.

I'd have to say you over dramatized the whole thing a bit. In Isaan I see grown women making there own decision to try their luck in Pattaya. They had a life but... the lure of snagging a farang for a long term relationship is too great.

I'm sure there are many reasons why girls and guys work in bars. I think the majority enjoy it and wouldn't want a 9-5 job if you offered it on a plate.

I work on very large motor yachts. Either owned or chartered by some of the wealthiest people out there.

These yachts are not environmentally friendly, waste massive amounts of resources, plus in lots of cases are sexually and racially discriminate.

Like a lot of people who work on these boats, I always say just a couple more years and I'll be done, as I don't agree with lots of aspects within the industry. The truth is, I'm a prostitute (albeit an engineering one) to the wealthy. I could do lots of other jobs but the money and lifestyle just keep pulling me back.

I think we are all slaves to our greed in one way or another...

So deluded . not even in the same area let alone about bar girls. Did you get abused by your family or your Husband beat you, gamble or just pimp you out for money. Did your brother do the same, or did your parents sell , give you away.did some foreigner promise you the world and blatantly lie to you, we a lot of these girls have been there, so like i say not in the same area., you have free will a lot of these girls never had.

So much bitterness,Did you see all you describe? (we!) or are you just grouping them all together? to make your point? look in any shopping mall and see the ones who prefer an honest toil, life style.who know they will have little chance of being rich,(isn't that the same the world over)? but still do menial work,and i'm sure would be capable of much better.Some go for easy money and some don't,simple as that.That's not to say there are no exceptions!

Whether one works as a bargirl or, mainly in a touristlocation, in a reasonably lowpaid job. Restaurant, shop, hotel, caddy etc...it really does not matter. For many it is all the same. When a girl works in a bar one is more warned for the scamming practices. Its mainly a mentality question. Many girls are just not fit for the life as a prostitute. Their dream is quickly gone after a while and thus return home. For the homefront, many know what their daughter is up to but its not being talked about. It does not exist therefore...especially if enough cash is brought home. Money matters only in those families ...whether out of neccesaty or as an extra.

I'm sure there are many reasons why girls and guys work in bars. I think the majority enjoy it and wouldn't want a 9-5 job if you offered it on a plate.

I work on very large motor yachts. Either owned or chartered by some of the wealthiest people out there.

These yachts are not environmentally friendly, waste massive amounts of resources, plus in lots of cases are sexually and racially discriminate.

Like a lot of people who work on these boats, I always say just a couple more years and I'll be done, as I don't agree with lots of aspects within the industry. The truth is, I'm a prostitute (albeit an engineering one) to the wealthy. I could do lots of other jobs but the money and lifestyle just keep pulling me back.

I think we are all slaves to our greed in one way or another...

So deluded . not even in the same area let alone about bar girls. Did you get abused by your family or your Husband beat you, gamble or just pimp you out for money. Did your brother do the same, or did your parents sell , give you away.did some foreigner promise you the world and blatantly lie to you, we a lot of these girls have been there, so like i say not in the same area., you have free will a lot of these girls never had.

If you read my post properly, you will see that I said the majority of bar workers.

Of course they are lots of cases of abuse but there are also lots of alternative employment opportunities for the 'majority' if they choose.

As for not being in the same area !! The OP is about choices in life, not the profession of prostitution. It is about the need for money outweighing the need for self respect.

I think you would be deluded to think that all bar workers are forced into the industry. Whilst many are, lots of them (as another poster has mentioned) enjoy the lifestyle and money. Just as I do with my job...

I used to work as a TPV in Soi Bangla bars (Patong), checking for pickpockets and paralytic Koreans etc. I speak Thai and knew many of the bar girls.

I never met one lady who was working under duress. The interesting thing was that they all agreed that having sex with a customer was not a 'done deal'. On most occasions, the punter simply wanted to party or have a meal together or - in the case of Asian men - sing terrible karaoke.

These ladies were strong together as a team - they were in control. They enjoyed the lifestyle and they enjoyed the money. that it brought them. It was their choice, (albeit a choice that had few career prospects).

The biggest risk that I could see was to their livers.

When it comes to money, for people that are fixated on getting more, there is never enough.

IMO most BGs are much more empowered and have a lot more dignity and control over their life than if they pursued most of the other options open to them given their background.

And it's not just a few that hit the jackpot and end up happily married overseas.

How much dignity and respect does one have in being a slave to the almighty dollar.

How much empowerment and control comes with being a slave to money.

A lot more than one does if one doesn't have any.

It's kind of sad really because I would love to marry and take one if those girls out of the bar. However, once they start treating men as customers it's a lost cause. It's like the entire concept of love is tossed out the window and every relationship with a man becomes a business transaction. If your a farang it's ten times worst because they are taught to pray on you as a customer. I had one girl who was sleeping with me for free on a regular basis and I wanted to marry her and take her home. The problem is she expects a monthly salary to leave the bar. Why would I send money to Thialand when there is no guarantee she will ever leave the bar? How many others are sending her money? Will I ever be treated as a human being and not a customer? It's just one big heart breaking waste of time! I find it much easier and cheaper to pay the 2000-3000 Bhat and be done.

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I'm sure there are many reasons why girls and guys work in bars. I think the majority enjoy it and wouldn't want a 9-5 job if you offered it on a plate.

I work on very large motor yachts. Either owned or chartered by some of the wealthiest people out there.

These yachts are not environmentally friendly, waste massive amounts of resources, plus in lots of cases are sexually and racially discriminate.

Like a lot of people who work on these boats, I always say just a couple more years and I'll be done, as I don't agree with lots of aspects within the industry. The truth is, I'm a prostitute (albeit an engineering one) to the wealthy. I could do lots of other jobs but the money and lifestyle just keep pulling me back.

I think we are all slaves to our greed in one way or another...

So deluded . not even in the same area let alone about bar girls. Did you get abused by your family or your Husband beat you, gamble or just pimp you out for money. Did your brother do the same, or did your parents sell , give you away.did some foreigner promise you the world and blatantly lie to you, we a lot of these girls have been there, so like i say not in the same area., you have free will a lot of these girls never had.

Actually, in this case, I think it may be you Thongkorn that is slightly deluded. To me, cornishcarlos has it described just right.

I am certainly not saying that the examples you gave with respect to bargirls does not or hasn't happened, it has of course. But I think today, talking about bargirls and not the rest of the sex industry, these examples happen a lot less than you may imagine. The topic is about choice, I believe a majority of these girls do the work through choice.

Bar girls account for less than 10% of prostitutes country wide. The other (over) 90% are Thai women who are in the industry to service Thai men. Prostitution is engrained in Siamese culture, and is controlled and promoted by Thais for Thais. The girls on the beach are the lucky ones maybe, at least they have the chance of hitting the jackpot. The girl in the Thai soapy at best, might be offered a way out as a Mia Noi if she is young and beautiful, but this is rare.

The girls introduced to the Farang trade usually have family members (auntie, mother, sister) or best friend that have or who are working already. That is there way in and it is actively encouraged in their peer group or family circle. Of course for presentation purposes they are working as receptionists in a hotel or as a waitress in a restaurant. Everyone in the village knows the real score though; suspicion is rife, but know one challenges the story.... Face and all that.

So for the OP. I understand where you are coming from, but you only see a fraction of the real degradation of the poorest of women in Thai society. Add to that the abuse and sometimes rape of young girls in village life that is rarely reported, and once is reported a financial sum is arranged to satisfy the aggrieved. So the pretty girl in the bar perhaps has made her choice based on many factors; your idea of a factory hiring just down the road is simply not a reality for many of these girls.

It's Hotel California, they can check out anytime they like but they can never leave.

Bar girls account for less than 10% of prostitutes country wide. The other (over) 90% are Thai women who are in the industry to service Thai men. Prostitution is engrained in Siamese culture, and is controlled and promoted by Thais for Thais. The girls on the beach are the lucky ones maybe, at least they have the chance of hitting the jackpot. The girl in the Thai soapy at best, might be offered a way out as a Mia Noi if she is young and beautiful, but this is rare.

The girls introduced to the Farang trade usually have family members (auntie, mother, sister) or best friend that have or who are working already. That is there way in and it is actively encouraged in their peer group or family circle. Of course for presentation purposes they are working as receptionists in a hotel or as a waitress in a restaurant. Everyone in the village knows the real score though; suspicion is rife, but know one challenges the story.... Face and all that.

So for the OP. I understand where you are coming from, but you only see a fraction of the real degradation of the poorest of women in Thai society. Add to that the abuse and sometimes rape of young girls in village life that is rarely reported, and once is reported a financial sum is arranged to satisfy the aggrieved. So the pretty girl in the bar perhaps has made her choice based on many factors; your idea of a factory hiring just down the road is simply not a reality for many of these girls.

The vast majority of farangs (or visitors, tourists, ex-pats, whatever makes you happy) only see the bargirls in the commercial areas, and this is their image of the sex trade in Thailand. When you move from these commercial areas, or even the outskirts of them, and witness the sex trade 'Thai-style' then you would have a different viewpoint on what is forced and what is a choice.

I think you got that 100% right Ian.

but you only see a fraction of the real degradation of the poorest of women in Thai society.

Perhaps your avatar is not really appropriate, considering your comments....

Simon