Abhisit to meet varied groups seeking way out of political crisis

[webfact]

Abhisit to meet varied groups seeking way out of political crisis
By Digital Content



BANGKOK, April 25 -- Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva said he would meet representatives from varied groups to find mutually agreeable solution to bringing the country out of its political crisis.

Mr Abhisit, on a four-minute video clip publicised on YouTube at 3pm Thursday, said the present political situation could not be left like this as it has affected the economy, leading to corruption, while the general public is stressed due to the violent conflicts.

He said this was not the time to quarrel or blame each other as everyone including the Democrat party were responsible in drawing the country into this position.

Mr Abhisit said he proposed a solution to caretaker Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra and anti government protest leader Suthep Thaugsuban, People's Democratic Reform Committee secretary general as litigants to hold talks. However, he believed, there would be no talks as proposed.

The Democrat Party leader said that he decided to be part of the attempt to solve the crisis.

He said a general election is not a final answer to the problem, that counting the number of supporters, which group has more supporters, cannot not bring peace to the country. The Court verdict cannot say what direction the country should move. A coup is also no solution to regain peace.

Mr Abhisit said reform should be the answer.

He said he would meet Permanent Secretary for Justice Kittipong Kittayarak tomorrow and Reform Now Network and to meet Supreme Commander Gen Tanasak Patimapragornon Monday to discuss solutions for a way out of the crisis.

The former prime minister also planned to meet Election Commission and representatives of the government, political parties and protest leaders.

He has asked for an opportunity to work in the mission to start national reform. (MCOT online news)


-- TNA 2014-04-25

[webfact]

Abhisit's reform talk starts
The Nation

To meet with Armed Forces chief, reform advocates; PM silent on call for discussion

BANGKOK: -- In a renewed effort to help end the political deadlock and avert further violence, Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva yesterday unveiled a plan to hold talks with some prominent figures and parties to seek a solution for the country.

"We need to guide our country towards reform. Reform must be carried out under constitutional and democratic principles. And the election process must be acceptable to all," the former prime minister said yesterday.

Abhisit said he would meet today with Kittipong Kittayarak, permanent secretary of the Justice Ministry, and the Reform Now Network, followed by General Tanasak Patimapragorn, supreme commander of the Armed Forces, on Monday.

He would also attempt to hold similar discussions with the government, political parties and various groups of demonstrators.

"I am confident that with a common starting point agreed upon, we will be able to find the answer for our country in the long run. It will be a good answer for our country's future and for our children and grandchildren," he said.

"I would like to invite you all to give our country a chance."

His remarks came in a 3.49-minute video uploaded to YouTube.

Abhisit said that with caretaker Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra and anti-government protest leader Suthep Thaugsuban refusing to hold talks to end the crisis, he felt he could not remain idle.

"We have to start by admitting that nobody will get all they want. We have to start with adhering to the national interest and finding a common point that will allow the country to move forward," he said.

The answer for the country, Abhisit said, does not depend on an election that threatens to renew confrontation and violence, contests to draw the biggest rally crowds, a court verdict, or even another military coup.

Parties should not be pointing fingers at each other over the political deadlock, he said, adding that he included himself and his Democrat Party in this.

"It's not time to blame each other. We are all responsible for having brought the country to this point," he said. The country should not be allowed to remain in this state any longer, Abhisit said, adding that fears have arisen of increased violence, and possibly a coup or even a civil war.

Kittipong said he would meet with Abhisit as a member of the Reform Now Network, and not as the permanent secretary of the Justice Ministry.

The People's Democratic Reform Committee (PDRC) welcomed Abhisit's proposal to find a breakthrough for the country, saying it was in line with the anti-government movement's goal.

"The PDRC is ready to have a talk with Abhisit and anyone else who has good intentions toward the country," PDRC spokesman Akanat Promphan said.

Ruling Pheu Thai Party spokesman Prompong Nopparit offered to liaise between Abhisit and the government.

Abhisit would act as a good mediator between the government and Suthep, who is the PDRC's secretary-general, he said.

Yingluck did not respond to Abhisit's call for talks between himself and the prime minister. She simply smiled when asked to comment on his request.

Yingluck, who is also the defence minister, urged the military and the bureaucracy to remain politically neutral.


-- The Nation 2014-04-25

[Mango Bob]

A few days ago he feared for his life at the EC meeting. Now he announce a date, time and place for a meeting with the permanent secretary of the Justice Ministry. Not a smart move for a man who believes he has a contact out on his life. Unless the man is lying about the attempt on his life.

Edited April 24, 2014 by metisdead
Bold font removed.

[WoopyDoo]

Very smart move by Abhisit and the timing couldn't be better.

"We need to guide our country towards reform. Reform must be carried out under constitutional and democratic principles. And the election process must be acceptable to all," the former prime minister said yesterday.

The election process MUST be acceptable to all.

Who can argue with this?

But he WILL be criticized on here relentlessly, but not because he is wrong... Because of pure selfish bias with total disregard for what is good for the country and democracy.

Some people can't accept completely democratic election processes because they know it is a huge disadvantage to their side of politics..... you all know who I am talking about and they will come to comment.

Yingluck did not respond to Abhisit's call for talks between himself and the prime minister. She simply smiled when asked to comment on his request.

That is about the measure of this stupid woman..... I can't think of a single PM in the world who can not even be bothered to offer up a couple of lines of comment... even if it is rhetoric, at least it is something... It just shows how much of a complete airhead she actually is, and it is beyond my comprehension as to why so many people on here want to see her remain in office.... It truly defies belief.

[PatOngo]

Abhisit's reform talk starts
The Nation

To meet with Armed Forces chief, reform advocates; PM silent on call for discussion

Good to see someone's trying.........looking forward to lemon boy's comments.

[noitom]

He's young, he's tan, he's ready, and he's rested. The man who led his party in rejecting the election process in his nation by not showing up to vote in Thailand.

[Robby nz]

Good, there will be a lot of support from most directions, but of course the "Must have elections now" gang will never agree to anything else.

What I would like to know is, 'what exactly is his electoral reform package'

This will be the test of his sincerity to clean up politics for any reforms must apply to him and his party along with every

one else.

In my opinion eliminating convicted criminals and fraudsters from standing for office is a must, however that would be unacceptable to at least one party as it would ban a fair proportion of them.

[WoopyDoo]

Good, there will be a lot of support from most directions, but of course the "Must have elections now" gang will never agree to anything else.

What I would like to know is, 'what exactly is his electoral reform package'

This will be the test of his sincerity to clean up politics for any reforms must apply to him and his party along with every

one else.

In my opinion eliminating convicted criminals and fraudsters from standing for office is a must, however that would be unacceptable to at least one party as it would ban a fair proportion of them.

We won't know what his reforms outline is until he has actually had the talks. He himself won't know... he will know what he wants and what is best for clean elections, but obviously they must be agreed upon first, and that (as you pointed out) won't be easy because the PTP who also control the coalition of the minnows will easily scupper the plans by 'majority' discomfort and disagreement.

PTP can't win unless an election is bent. So they will defy everything and anything to prevent having to go into a clean election process.

These talks should really be only initiated by the Dems and other parties and then taken over by non political party bodies.

Get all political parties to PUBLICLY agree to a free and fair election then take the framework out of their meddling and manipulative hands.

[chotthee]

Very smart move by Abhisit and the timing couldn't be better.

"We need to guide our country towards reform. Reform must be carried out under constitutional and democratic principles. And the election process must be acceptable to all," the former prime minister said yesterday.

The election process MUST be acceptable to all.

Who can argue with this?

But he WILL be criticized on here relentlessly, but not because he is wrong... Because of pure selfish bias with total disregard for what is good for the country and democracy.

Some people can't accept completely democratic election processes because they know it is a huge disadvantage to their side of politics..... you all know who I am talking about and they will come to comment.

Yingluck did not respond to Abhisit's call for talks between himself and the prime minister. She simply smiled when asked to comment on his request.

That is about the measure of this stupid woman..... I can't think of a single PM in the world who can not even be bothered to offer up a couple of lines of comment... even if it is rhetoric, at least it is something... It just shows how much of a complete airhead she actually is, and it is beyond my comprehension as to why so many people on here want to see her remain in office.... It truly defies belief.

No wonder he was the President of the Oxford Union.

[chilizzz]

Has the above photo been re-touched or something? Because in his YouTube clip he looks really bad. I mean, as in looking unhealthy. Does anyone know if he's sick or something?

[pmugghc]

A few days ago he feared for his life at the EC meeting. Now he announce a date, time and place for a meeting with the permanent secretary of the Justice Ministry. Not a smart move for a man who believes he has a contact out on his life. Unless the man is lying about the attempt on his life.

He was not lying. Read today's Bkk Post p12.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Robby nz]

Good, there will be a lot of support from most directions, but of course the "Must have elections now" gang will never agree to anything else.

What I would like to know is, 'what exactly is his electoral reform package'

This will be the test of his sincerity to clean up politics for any reforms must apply to him and his party along with every

one else.

In my opinion eliminating convicted criminals and fraudsters from standing for office is a must, however that would be unacceptable to at least one party as it would ban a fair proportion of them.

We won't know what his reforms outline is until he has actually had the talks. He himself won't know... he will know what he wants and what is best for clean elections, but obviously they must be agreed upon first, and that (as you pointed out) won't be easy because the PTP who also control the coalition of the minnows will easily scupper the plans by 'majority' discomfort and disagreement.

PTP can't win unless an election is bent. So they will defy everything and anything to prevent having to go into a clean election process.

These talks should really be only initiated by the Dems and other parties and then taken over by non political party bodies.

Get all political parties to PUBLICLY agree to a free and fair election then take the framework out of their meddling and manipulative hands.

From what I read the Dems have already prepared a reform package.

Korn took time off from the management of the party to pursue reforms and was reported talking to various groups including farmers.

If this is correct then I would think Abhisit will be outlining, or even presenting, these plans to the people he meets and asking for input.

That they haven't gone public with these plans is hardly surprising considering the likely response from PT and their red supporters who have done nothing other than demand quick elections.

[Scamper]

" We have to start by admitting that nobody will get all they want. We have to start with adhering to the national interest and finding a common point that will allow the country to move forward," he said. "

" Yingluck did not respond to Abhisit's call for talks between himself and the prime minister. She simply smiled when asked to comment on his request. "

Those are the sounds of a door opening, and then being closed.

[wandasloan]

Very smart move by Abhisit and the timing couldn't be better.

"We need to guide our country towards reform. Reform must be carried out under constitutional and democratic principles. And the election process must be acceptable to all," the former prime minister said yesterday.

The election process MUST be acceptable to all.

Who can argue with this?

No one. It's what everyone in the country over 15 has said many times. So what is the value here? If there's no argument (which there isn't) then why are we even listening? He wants to re-invent himself or re-launch or something, fine, why not? But what is he bringing to the table that needs paying attention to?

.

[wandasloan]

If this is correct then I would think Abhisit will be outlining, or even presenting, these plans to the people he meets and asking for input.

That they haven't gone public with these plans is hardly surprising considering the likely response from PT and their red supporters who have done nothing other than demand quick elections.

This would be great, and Abhisit is making the rounds of newspaper offices today like he has a new soap opera to promote. I do hope he intends to say something that is less platitudinous than that atrocious three minutes on YouTube.

I absolutely don't understand why a politician(s) would keep their policy programmes secret. Are you saying Korn and Abhisit are so terrified of getting criticised that they can't speak? As terrified as they were of a fortune teller's prediction?: It seems to me that the only reason that a politician ever closes his mouth is either to swallow his expensive wine or because he can think of nothing more to say. Those two definitely included.

.

[billd766]

If this is correct then I would think Abhisit will be outlining, or even presenting, these plans to the people he meets and asking for input.

That they haven't gone public with these plans is hardly surprising considering the likely response from PT and their red supporters who have done nothing other than demand quick elections.

This would be great, and Abhisit is making the rounds of newspaper offices today like he has a new soap opera to promote. I do hope he intends to say something that is less platitudinous than that atrocious three minutes on YouTube.

I absolutely don't understand why a politician(s) would keep their policy programmes secret. Are you saying Korn and Abhisit are so terrified of getting criticised that they can't speak? As terrified as they were of a fortune teller's prediction?: It seems to me that the only reason that a politician ever closes his mouth is either to swallow his expensive wine or because he can think of nothing more to say. Those two definitely included.

.

So what does the wonderful cPM have to say to Abhisits request?

Absolutely nothing.

What reforms for the future has the PTP announced?

Absolutely nothing.

What are the PTP doing to bring about peace, reconciliation and reforms?

Absolutely nothing.

At least Abhisit IS trying to do something, unlike Ms smiling cPM.

[Nickymaster]

Yingluck did not respond to Abhisit's call for talks between himself and the prime minister. She simply smiled when asked to comment on his request.

Yingluck is a coward. She has no problem spending a trillion baht taxpayers money without transparency (because her team will deal with the consequences).

But having a debate face to face she doesn't dare. In fact, she has never had a debate with anybody since the became PM. A leader to be proud of.

[Eric Loh]

Poor Ahbisit. No one really treating him serious. Got a lot to prove as his credibilty is near zero.

[DirtFarmer]

"Mr Abhisit, on a four-minute video clip publicised on YouTube at 3pm Thursday, said the present political situation could not be left like this as it has affected the economy, leading to corruption, while the general public is stressed due to the violent conflicts."

Superb assessment coming from one who has been very much instrumental in affecting this whole mess...

"He said this was not the time to quarrel or blame each other as everyone including the Democrat party were responsible in drawing the country into this position."

That's correct and thanks for having the eggs to admit you were part of it.

"Mr Abhisit said he proposed a solution to caretaker Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra and anti government protest leader Suthep Thaugsuban, People's Democratic Reform Committee secretary general as litigants to hold talks. However, he believed, there would be no talks as proposed."

​You knew the answer to that months ago...nothing new here... but nice of you to conveniently draw the lines of conflict between her and him just two paragraphs after admitting you and the Dems were partly to blame.

"The Democrat Party leader said that he decided to be part of the attempt to solve the crisis."

Well that's very generous. but you are part and parcel of the problem... oh wait that's right it is a conflict between her and him.. so you construct a two party conflict and show up on your high white horse to save the day... a noble gesture..

"He said a general election is not a final answer to the problem, that counting the number of supporters, which group has more supporters, cannot not bring peace to the country. The Court verdict cannot say what direction the country should move. A coup is also no solution to regain peace."

No of course not.. an election is the last thing you want... That point has been hammered home ad nauseum.. and you are right counting supporters is just part of the smoke and mirrors.. but I beg to differ with this...

"... The Court verdict cannot say what direction the country should move."

That may be your idealistic offering but the reality of which direction this country moves may very well be in the hands of the Court.. Either way it goes for or against the caretaker PM.. it will very much decide which way things are headed..

"A coup is also no solution to regain peace."

That depends on which side you sit... but the idea is to get people together and not divide by violence and with that I agree whole wholeheartedly .

"Mr Abhisit said reform should be the answer."

Well there ya have the gist folks... "should be the answer" no doubt about what your intention is there..

But until anybody actually does anything about reform nothing will change... that reform will take decades. No Democrat Party dictate, at this point will truly reform anything in less than that. Reform is a great word to bandy about and hoist as a banner but anyone who has spent anytime here at all.. realizes that is not going to happen too many snouts in the trough for way too long..

"He said he would meet Permanent Secretary for Justice Kittipong Kittayarak tomorrow and Reform Now Network and to meet Supreme Commander Gen Tanasak Patimapragornon Monday to discuss solutions for a way out of the crisis.

The former prime minister also planned to meet Election Commission and representatives of the government, political parties and protest leaders.

He has asked for an opportunity to work in the mission to start national reform."

All lovely rhetoric with no substance whatsoever... Nothing new here.. just another of the 2 week campaign

Abhisit Challenges...

Abhisit Advises

Abhisit Warns

Abhisit Offers

Abhiset offers to meet

Abhiset says elections not the answer

Abhisit Skips Forum

Abhisit this Abhisit that . Why in the world has this man who believes, truly believes he is a leader not led anything.. For the short time he was in office and including the time since..what has he led? What reforms has he fronted? What pieces of legislation NOT tilted towards his own parties benefit has he offered to benefit the Thai People... the ones that aren't in his circle?..

I just don't have any belief that this all is anything more than lip service at an opportune time to charge in, grab headlines and appear as the uber-mediator..None of the things in this piece has he affected... they are all yet to be done..

And in a related thread he offers to give his proposals for solving the problems..in a day or two.

Not holding my breath...

Edited April 25, 2014 by DirtFarmer

[khunken]

"Mr Abhisit, on a four-minute video clip publicised on YouTube at 3pm Thursday, said the present political situation could not be left like this as it has affected the economy, leading to corruption, while the general public is stressed due to the violent conflicts."

Superb assessment coming from one who has been very much instrumental in affecting this whole mess...

"He said this was not the time to quarrel or blame each other as everyone including the Democrat party were responsible in drawing the country into this position."

That's correct and thanks for having the eggs to admit you were part of it.

"Mr Abhisit said he proposed a solution to caretaker Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra and anti government protest leader Suthep Thaugsuban, People's Democratic Reform Committee secretary general as litigants to hold talks. However, he believed, there would be no talks as proposed."

​You knew the answer to that months ago...nothing new here... but nice of you to conveniently draw the lines of conflict between her and him just two paragraphs after admitting you and the Dems were partly to blame.

"The Democrat Party leader said that he decided to be part of the attempt to solve the crisis."

Well that's very generous. but you are part and parcel of the problem... oh wait that's right it is a conflict between her and him.. so you construct a two party conflict and show up on your high white horse to save the day... a noble gesture..

"He said a general election is not a final answer to the problem, that counting the number of supporters, which group has more supporters, cannot not bring peace to the country. The Court verdict cannot say what direction the country should move. A coup is also no solution to regain peace."

No of course not.. an election is the last thing you want... That point has been hammered home ad nauseum.. and you are right counting supporters is just part of the smoke and mirrors.. but I beg to differ with this...

"... The Court verdict cannot say what direction the country should move."

That may be your idealistic offering but the reality of which direction this country moves may very well be in the hands of the Court.. Either way it goes for or against the caretaker PM.. it will very much decide which way things are headed..

"A coup is also no solution to regain peace."

That depends on which side you sit... but the idea is to get people together and not divide by violence and with that I agree whole wholeheartedly .

"Mr Abhisit said reform should be the answer."

Well there ya have the gist folks... "should be the answer" no doubt about what your intention is there..

But until anybody actually does anything about reform nothing will change... that reform will take decades. No Democrat Party dictate, at this point will truly reform anything in less than that. Reform is a great word to bandy about and hoist as a banner but anyone who has spent anytime here at all.. realizes that is not going to happen too many snouts in the trough for way too long..

"He said he would meet Permanent Secretary for Justice Kittipong Kittayarak tomorrow and Reform Now Network and to meet Supreme Commander Gen Tanasak Patimapragornon Monday to discuss solutions for a way out of the crisis.

The former prime minister also planned to meet Election Commission and representatives of the government, political parties and protest leaders.

He has asked for an opportunity to work in the mission to start national reform."

All lovely rhetoric with no substance whatsoever... Nothing new here.. just another of the 2 week campaign

Abhisit Challenges...

Abhisit Advises

Abhisit Warns

Abhisit Offers

Abhiset offers to meet

Abhiset says elections not the answer

Abhisit Skips Forum

Abhisit this Abhisit that . Why in the world has this man who believes, truly believes he is a leader not led anything.. For the short time he was in office and including the time since..what has he led? What reforms has he fronted? What pieces of legislation NOT tilted towards his own parties benefit has he offered to benefit the Thai People... the ones that aren't in his circle?..

I just don't have any belief that this all is anything more than lip service at an opportune time to charge in, grab headlines and appear as the uber-mediator..None of the things in this piece has he affected... they are all yet to be done..

And in a related thread he offers to give his proposals for solving the problems..in a day or two.

Not holding my breath...

Lies, ignorance and verbose.

It is a lie to say that Abhisit has been 'very much instrumental in affecting this whole mess...'. The whole mess was started by PTP's 'bring Thaksin home' amnesty bill triggering mass rallies, Suthep's various groups and the government resigning without first ensuring that money was available for the farmers.

It is just stupid to expect him to release his reform proposals as, no matter what they are, will not be acceptable to PTP. Suthep has proposed a number of reforms that even some PTP/red shirt supporters on this forum have agreed with but the party can't even allow the reform word to be mentioned without condemnation (or election this, election that, we win we do what we like, etc, etc).

While it is true that the Democrat party did little to combat corruption while in power, they didn't make it worse and the scale never reached the Thaksin heights. But they did have a bill prepared to tax land, particularly unused land. This bill was quickly dropped by Yingluck (no doubt on bro's orders).

One can criticise Abhisit for various things like being too mild a leader, but small minds attributing (inventing) things to him that have nothing to do with him is nothing more than lies.

[Rimmer]

Personal attack removed also a couple of quoted replies:

In using Thai Visa I agree:

7) Respect fellow members by posting in a civil manner: do not launch personal attacks, or be hateful or insulting towards other members, ie No flaming

[xminator]

Election. You made this mess in the first place by not participating in february and not accepting a majority vote by THE people.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Election. You made this mess in the first place by not participating in february and not accepting a majority vote by THE people.

All that did was highlight the many problems that the Shinawatra's have brought to this once proud country!!

[jpeg]

Abhisit to meet varied groups seeking way out of political crisis

Hope none of them are Thai

[DirtFarmer]

"Mr Abhisit, on a four-minute video clip publicised on YouTube at 3pm Thursday, said the present political situation could not be left like this as it has affected the economy, leading to corruption, while the general public is stressed due to the violent conflicts."

Superb assessment coming from one who has been very much instrumental in affecting this whole mess...

"He said this was not the time to quarrel or blame each other as everyone including the Democrat party were responsible in drawing the country into this position."

That's correct and thanks for having the eggs to admit you were part of it.

"Mr Abhisit said he proposed a solution to caretaker Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra and anti government protest leader Suthep Thaugsuban, People's Democratic Reform Committee secretary general as litigants to hold talks. However, he believed, there would be no talks as proposed."

​You knew the answer to that months ago...nothing new here... but nice of you to conveniently draw the lines of conflict between her and him just two paragraphs after admitting you and the Dems were partly to blame.

"The Democrat Party leader said that he decided to be part of the attempt to solve the crisis."

Well that's very generous. but you are part and parcel of the problem... oh wait that's right it is a conflict between her and him.. so you construct a two party conflict and show up on your high white horse to save the day... a noble gesture..

"He said a general election is not a final answer to the problem, that counting the number of supporters, which group has more supporters, cannot not bring peace to the country. The Court verdict cannot say what direction the country should move. A coup is also no solution to regain peace."

No of course not.. an election is the last thing you want... That point has been hammered home ad nauseum.. and you are right counting supporters is just part of the smoke and mirrors.. but I beg to differ with this...

"... The Court verdict cannot say what direction the country should move."

That may be your idealistic offering but the reality of which direction this country moves may very well be in the hands of the Court.. Either way it goes for or against the caretaker PM.. it will very much decide which way things are headed..

"A coup is also no solution to regain peace."

That depends on which side you sit... but the idea is to get people together and not divide by violence and with that I agree whole wholeheartedly .

"Mr Abhisit said reform should be the answer."

Well there ya have the gist folks... "should be the answer" no doubt about what your intention is there..

But until anybody actually does anything about reform nothing will change... that reform will take decades. No Democrat Party dictate, at this point will truly reform anything in less than that. Reform is a great word to bandy about and hoist as a banner but anyone who has spent anytime here at all.. realizes that is not going to happen too many snouts in the trough for way too long..

"He said he would meet Permanent Secretary for Justice Kittipong Kittayarak tomorrow and Reform Now Network and to meet Supreme Commander Gen Tanasak Patimapragornon Monday to discuss solutions for a way out of the crisis.

The former prime minister also planned to meet Election Commission and representatives of the government, political parties and protest leaders.

He has asked for an opportunity to work in the mission to start national reform."

All lovely rhetoric with no substance whatsoever... Nothing new here.. just another of the 2 week campaign

Abhisit Challenges...

Abhisit Advises

Abhisit Warns

Abhisit Offers

Abhiset offers to meet

Abhiset says elections not the answer

Abhisit Skips Forum

Abhisit this Abhisit that . Why in the world has this man who believes, truly believes he is a leader not led anything.. For the short time he was in office and including the time since..what has he led? What reforms has he fronted? What pieces of legislation NOT tilted towards his own parties benefit has he offered to benefit the Thai People... the ones that aren't in his circle?..

I just don't have any belief that this all is anything more than lip service at an opportune time to charge in, grab headlines and appear as the uber-mediator..None of the things in this piece has he affected... they are all yet to be done..

And in a related thread he offers to give his proposals for solving the problems..in a day or two.

Not holding my breath...

Lies, ignorance and verbose.

It is a lie to say that Abhisit has been 'very much instrumental in affecting this whole mess...'. The whole mess was started by PTP's 'bring Thaksin home' amnesty bill triggering mass rallies, Suthep's various groups and the government resigning without first ensuring that money was available for the farmers.

It is just stupid to expect him to release his reform proposals as, no matter what they are, will not be acceptable to PTP. Suthep has proposed a number of reforms that even some PTP/red shirt supporters on this forum have agreed with but the party can't even allow the reform word to be mentioned without condemnation (or election this, election that, we win we do what we like, etc, etc).

While it is true that the Democrat party did little to combat corruption while in power, they didn't make it worse and the scale never reached the Thaksin heights. But they did have a bill prepared to tax land, particularly unused land. This bill was quickly dropped by Yingluck (no doubt on bro's orders).

One can criticise Abhisit for various things like being too mild a leader, but small minds attributing (inventing) things to him that have nothing to do with him is nothing more than lies.

Not lies... Abhisit has been on this train since losing their last election... he has been relentless in his opposition to this government since the inception of the most recent term... that is not a lie.. this mess is a direct result of their inability to affect the voting public with a better platform for the country or an offer of a better future... had there been any substantive manifesto coming from the Democrat party, at all in the last 6 years that the people could perceive as an alternative much less a better alternative going forward.. the Dems might be able to make some headway through normal channels... but they had nothing... they offered nothing, except their scorn for the electorate and the removal of a process that allowed the people to have a say... Most non Bangkok people now are fed up with the entire politic process including not caring to vote as they say their votes will not be counted and have no meaning... this plays perfectly into the hands of these players and their supporters... so for you to even intimate this all started with the amnesty bill is extremely naive and reflects your inability to look at a greater picture than the one suggested by daily Thai Media posted here.. There are a plethora of other sources out there, highly informative and educational and provide a much broader view, particularily of things we are forbidden to speak about here or in Thailand in general (archaic, but it is what it is) regardless of the color of your crayons.

He has touted reform as his banner for the last 8 years little of which was ever implemented... he is well aware that very little will be implemented by him or anyone else...it just goes too deep..They cannot manage reform...to many snouts in the trough.. Two years down the road I will be interested to see what if anything "reform-wise" has happened..just a buzz word.. and a worn out one coming from him.

You know well and good that the resolution of this entire mess is not going to be played out in the press, nor in the eyes or view of the public.. but rather some kind of deals will be struck with the most amount of face saving on all sides as possible... We will not see lynch-mobs... The "Thai" way will be worked out out of your or my reach and will be placed on the shoulders of the Thai People who will undoubtedly have to bear whatever that resolution is..and will probably be happy it is all over and go back to their lives without all thus bruhaha.

Correct very little was done by the Dems with regard to corruption but the top ten party members wealth increased exponentially in the 2 years they were in office they also realized that reform was going to be a much bigger deal than they had imagined and promptly abandoned it... Until recently.. Through villification of the blunders of the current administration and the polarization and the division of the masses and the insurrectionist acts of Abhisits cronies.. they are most assuredly responsible for a huge chunk of what is going on at the moment.

I did not invent anything... I responded to what Abhisit and the Nation invented it in this article..and it was indeed nothing new... Another thread here in TVF ENtitled ABhisit offers... blah blah blah echos this same meritless attention grabbing lull we find ourselves in awaiting the inevitable outcomes..

Abhisit as much as he is liked by the elites is way too polarized in the eyes of the nation as a whole to have any substantial input respected.. Unfortunately he may be all the Dems have at this point... Perhaps some other groups can offer better.

Small minds...? thank you.. unfortunately we cannot all have the big mind that you proffer you have...Cheers

Edited April 25, 2014 by DirtFarmer

[khunken]

"Mr Abhisit, on a four-minute video clip publicised on YouTube at 3pm Thursday, said the present political situation could not be left like this as it has affected the economy, leading to corruption, while the general public is stressed due to the violent conflicts."

Superb assessment coming from one who has been very much instrumental in affecting this whole mess...

"He said this was not the time to quarrel or blame each other as everyone including the Democrat party were responsible in drawing the country into this position."

That's correct and thanks for having the eggs to admit you were part of it.

"Mr Abhisit said he proposed a solution to caretaker Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra and anti government protest leader Suthep Thaugsuban, People's Democratic Reform Committee secretary general as litigants to hold talks. However, he believed, there would be no talks as proposed."

​You knew the answer to that months ago...nothing new here... but nice of you to conveniently draw the lines of conflict between her and him just two paragraphs after admitting you and the Dems were partly to blame.

"The Democrat Party leader said that he decided to be part of the attempt to solve the crisis."

Well that's very generous. but you are part and parcel of the problem... oh wait that's right it is a conflict between her and him.. so you construct a two party conflict and show up on your high white horse to save the day... a noble gesture..

"He said a general election is not a final answer to the problem, that counting the number of supporters, which group has more supporters, cannot not bring peace to the country. The Court verdict cannot say what direction the country should move. A coup is also no solution to regain peace."

No of course not.. an election is the last thing you want... That point has been hammered home ad nauseum.. and you are right counting supporters is just part of the smoke and mirrors.. but I beg to differ with this...

"... The Court verdict cannot say what direction the country should move."

That may be your idealistic offering but the reality of which direction this country moves may very well be in the hands of the Court.. Either way it goes for or against the caretaker PM.. it will very much decide which way things are headed..

"A coup is also no solution to regain peace."

That depends on which side you sit... but the idea is to get people together and not divide by violence and with that I agree whole wholeheartedly .

"Mr Abhisit said reform should be the answer."

Well there ya have the gist folks... "should be the answer" no doubt about what your intention is there..

But until anybody actually does anything about reform nothing will change... that reform will take decades. No Democrat Party dictate, at this point will truly reform anything in less than that. Reform is a great word to bandy about and hoist as a banner but anyone who has spent anytime here at all.. realizes that is not going to happen too many snouts in the trough for way too long..

"He said he would meet Permanent Secretary for Justice Kittipong Kittayarak tomorrow and Reform Now Network and to meet Supreme Commander Gen Tanasak Patimapragornon Monday to discuss solutions for a way out of the crisis.

The former prime minister also planned to meet Election Commission and representatives of the government, political parties and protest leaders.

He has asked for an opportunity to work in the mission to start national reform."

All lovely rhetoric with no substance whatsoever... Nothing new here.. just another of the 2 week campaign

Abhisit Challenges...

Abhisit Advises

Abhisit Warns

Abhisit Offers

Abhiset offers to meet

Abhiset says elections not the answer

Abhisit Skips Forum

Abhisit this Abhisit that . Why in the world has this man who believes, truly believes he is a leader not led anything.. For the short time he was in office and including the time since..what has he led? What reforms has he fronted? What pieces of legislation NOT tilted towards his own parties benefit has he offered to benefit the Thai People... the ones that aren't in his circle?..

I just don't have any belief that this all is anything more than lip service at an opportune time to charge in, grab headlines and appear as the uber-mediator..None of the things in this piece has he affected... they are all yet to be done..

And in a related thread he offers to give his proposals for solving the problems..in a day or two.

Not holding my breath...

Lies, ignorance and verbose.

It is a lie to say that Abhisit has been 'very much instrumental in affecting this whole mess...'. The whole mess was started by PTP's 'bring Thaksin home' amnesty bill triggering mass rallies, Suthep's various groups and the government resigning without first ensuring that money was available for the farmers.

It is just stupid to expect him to release his reform proposals as, no matter what they are, will not be acceptable to PTP. Suthep has proposed a number of reforms that even some PTP/red shirt supporters on this forum have agreed with but the party can't even allow the reform word to be mentioned without condemnation (or election this, election that, we win we do what we like, etc, etc).

While it is true that the Democrat party did little to combat corruption while in power, they didn't make it worse and the scale never reached the Thaksin heights. But they did have a bill prepared to tax land, particularly unused land. This bill was quickly dropped by Yingluck (no doubt on bro's orders).

One can criticise Abhisit for various things like being too mild a leader, but small minds attributing (inventing) things to him that have nothing to do with him is nothing more than lies.

Not lies... Abhisit has been on this train since losing their last election... he has been relentless in his opposition to this government since the inception of the most recent term... that is not a lie.. this mess is a direct result of their inability to affect the voting public with a better platform for the country or an offer of a better future... had there been any substantive manifesto coming from the Democrat party, at all in the last 6 years that the people could perceive as an alternative much less a better alternative going forward.. the Dems might be able to make some headway through normal channels... but they had nothing... they offered nothing, except their scorn for the electorate and the removal of a process that allowed the people to have a say... Most non Bangkok people now are fed up with the entire politic process including not caring to vote as they say their votes will not be counted and have no meaning... this plays perfectly into the hands of these players and their supporters... so for you to even intimate this all started with the amnesty bill is extremely naive and reflects your inability to look at a greater picture than the one suggested by daily Thai Media posted here.. There are a plethora of other sources out there, highly informative and educational and provide a much broader view, particularily of things we are forbidden to speak about here or in Thailand in general (archaic, but it is what it is) regardless of the color of your crayons.

He has touted reform as his banner for the last 8 years little of which was ever implemented... he is well aware that very little will be implemented by him or anyone else...it just goes too deep..They cannot manage reform...to many snouts in the trough.. Two years down the road I will be interested to see what if anything "reform-wise" has happened..just a buzz word.. and a worn out one coming from him.

You know well and good that the resolution of this entire mess is not going to be played out in the press, nor in the eyes or view of the public.. but rather some kind of deals will be struck with the most amount of face saving on all sides as possible... We will not see lynch-mobs... The "Thai" way will be worked out out of your or my reach and will be placed on the shoulders of the Thai People who will undoubtedly have to bear whatever that resolution is..and will probably be happy it is all over and go back to their lives without all thus bruhaha.

Correct very little was done by the Dems with regard to corruption but the top ten party members wealth increased exponentially in the 2 years they were in office they also realized that reform was going to a much bigger deal than they had imagined and promptly abandoned it... Until recently.. Through villification of the blunders of the current administration and the polarization and the division of the masses and the insurrectionist acts of Abhisits cronies.. they are most assuredly responsible for a huge chunk of what is going on at the moment.

I did not invent anything... I responded to what Abhisit and the Nation invented it in this article..and it was indeed nothing new... Another thread here in TVF ENtitled ABhisit offers... blah blah blah echos this same meritless attention grabbing lull we find ourselves in awaiting the inevitable outcomes..

Abhisit as much as he is liked by the elites is way too polarized in the eyes of the nation as a whole to have any substantial input respected.. Unfortunately he may be all the Dems have at this point... Perhaps some other groups can offer better.

Small minds...? thank you.. unfortunately we cannot all have the big mind that you proffer you have...Cheers

BTW - no I'm not arrogant enough to claim a 'big mind', just a normal one.

You continue to blame Abhisit for being responsible for the current mess when it is clearly PTP (with assistance from Suthep) who are the ones to blame. You can't even bring yourself to mention the amnesty bill which started the crisis.

Abhisit certainly has been against the PTP mob - that's very much an opposition's job. He has been under fire from the relentless Thaksin fuelled DSI over a number of cases - even one as puerile as using electronic funds transfer rather than a cheque. It has all been a failed attempt to get him to submit to the amnesty which, to his great credit, he refused to do. That it has made him oppose PTP even more is hardly surprising.

That the solution to the crisis will be found behing closed doors - I agree with that. As far as web sites with opinion is concerned, many are highly biased, often with scant knowledge of Thai politics and some with agendas that provide more propaganda than fact. I ignore them now after seeing some of the tripe that they spout.

You say that the wealth of the top 10 members of the Democrat party increased exponentially while in power. I'm going to call this another lie as you have made no attempt to back this up. Proof and I'll apologise.

The article was not 'invented by the Nation as it was similarly published in the Bangkok Post. Yes, it had nothing much new but it is as much news as yet another tissue of lies from Thaksin about giving up politics.

Unfortunately for PTP and yourself, the genie is out of the bottle. Suthep has managed to raise the corruption issue into a battle between those who want to do something to abate it and those who want to continue ripping off the country's wealth. Again blaming Abhisit is a straw man argument - manufacture all sorts of crap against him and then shoot it down. Dishonest argument.

[DirtFarmer]

"Mr Abhisit, on a four-minute video clip publicised on YouTube at 3pm Thursday, said the present political situation could not be left like this as it has affected the economy, leading to corruption, while the general public is stressed due to the violent conflicts."

Superb assessment coming from one who has been very much instrumental in affecting this whole mess...

"He said this was not the time to quarrel or blame each other as everyone including the Democrat party were responsible in drawing the country into this position."

That's correct and thanks for having the eggs to admit you were part of it.

"Mr Abhisit said he proposed a solution to caretaker Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra and anti government protest leader Suthep Thaugsuban, People's Democratic Reform Committee secretary general as litigants to hold talks. However, he believed, there would be no talks as proposed."

​You knew the answer to that months ago...nothing new here... but nice of you to conveniently draw the lines of conflict between her and him just two paragraphs after admitting you and the Dems were partly to blame.

"The Democrat Party leader said that he decided to be part of the attempt to solve the crisis."

Well that's very generous. but you are part and parcel of the problem... oh wait that's right it is a conflict between her and him.. so you construct a two party conflict and show up on your high white horse to save the day... a noble gesture..

"He said a general election is not a final answer to the problem, that counting the number of supporters, which group has more supporters, cannot not bring peace to the country. The Court verdict cannot say what direction the country should move. A coup is also no solution to regain peace."

No of course not.. an election is the last thing you want... That point has been hammered home ad nauseum.. and you are right counting supporters is just part of the smoke and mirrors.. but I beg to differ with this...

"... The Court verdict cannot say what direction the country should move."

That may be your idealistic offering but the reality of which direction this country moves may very well be in the hands of the Court.. Either way it goes for or against the caretaker PM.. it will very much decide which way things are headed..

"A coup is also no solution to regain peace."

That depends on which side you sit... but the idea is to get people together and not divide by violence and with that I agree whole wholeheartedly .

"Mr Abhisit said reform should be the answer."

Well there ya have the gist folks... "should be the answer" no doubt about what your intention is there..

But until anybody actually does anything about reform nothing will change... that reform will take decades. No Democrat Party dictate, at this point will truly reform anything in less than that. Reform is a great word to bandy about and hoist as a banner but anyone who has spent anytime here at all.. realizes that is not going to happen too many snouts in the trough for way too long..

"He said he would meet Permanent Secretary for Justice Kittipong Kittayarak tomorrow and Reform Now Network and to meet Supreme Commander Gen Tanasak Patimapragornon Monday to discuss solutions for a way out of the crisis.

The former prime minister also planned to meet Election Commission and representatives of the government, political parties and protest leaders.

He has asked for an opportunity to work in the mission to start national reform."

All lovely rhetoric with no substance whatsoever... Nothing new here.. just another of the 2 week campaign

Abhisit Challenges...

Abhisit Advises

Abhisit Warns

Abhisit Offers

Abhiset offers to meet

Abhiset says elections not the answer

Abhisit Skips Forum

Abhisit this Abhisit that . Why in the world has this man who believes, truly believes he is a leader not led anything.. For the short time he was in office and including the time since..what has he led? What reforms has he fronted? What pieces of legislation NOT tilted towards his own parties benefit has he offered to benefit the Thai People... the ones that aren't in his circle?..

I just don't have any belief that this all is anything more than lip service at an opportune time to charge in, grab headlines and appear as the uber-mediator..None of the things in this piece has he affected... they are all yet to be done..

And in a related thread he offers to give his proposals for solving the problems..in a day or two.

Not holding my breath...

Lies, ignorance and verbose.

It is a lie to say that Abhisit has been 'very much instrumental in affecting this whole mess...'. The whole mess was started by PTP's 'bring Thaksin home' amnesty bill triggering mass rallies, Suthep's various groups and the government resigning without first ensuring that money was available for the farmers.

It is just stupid to expect him to release his reform proposals as, no matter what they are, will not be acceptable to PTP. Suthep has proposed a number of reforms that even some PTP/red shirt supporters on this forum have agreed with but the party can't even allow the reform word to be mentioned without condemnation (or election this, election that, we win we do what we like, etc, etc).

While it is true that the Democrat party did little to combat corruption while in power, they didn't make it worse and the scale never reached the Thaksin heights. But they did have a bill prepared to tax land, particularly unused land. This bill was quickly dropped by Yingluck (no doubt on bro's orders).

One can criticise Abhisit for various things like being too mild a leader, but small minds attributing (inventing) things to him that have nothing to do with him is nothing more than lies.

Not lies... Abhisit has been on this train since losing their last election... he has been relentless in his opposition to this government since the inception of the most recent term... that is not a lie.. this mess is a direct result of their inability to affect the voting public with a better platform for the country or an offer of a better future... had there been any substantive manifesto coming from the Democrat party, at all in the last 6 years that the people could perceive as an alternative much less a better alternative going forward.. the Dems might be able to make some headway through normal channels... but they had nothing... they offered nothing, except their scorn for the electorate and the removal of a process that allowed the people to have a say... Most non Bangkok people now are fed up with the entire politic process including not caring to vote as they say their votes will not be counted and have no meaning... this plays perfectly into the hands of these players and their supporters... so for you to even intimate this all started with the amnesty bill is extremely naive and reflects your inability to look at a greater picture than the one suggested by daily Thai Media posted here.. There are a plethora of other sources out there, highly informative and educational and provide a much broader view, particularily of things we are forbidden to speak about here or in Thailand in general (archaic, but it is what it is) regardless of the color of your crayons.

He has touted reform as his banner for the last 8 years little of which was ever implemented... he is well aware that very little will be implemented by him or anyone else...it just goes too deep..They cannot manage reform...to many snouts in the trough.. Two years down the road I will be interested to see what if anything "reform-wise" has happened..just a buzz word.. and a worn out one coming from him.

You know well and good that the resolution of this entire mess is not going to be played out in the press, nor in the eyes or view of the public.. but rather some kind of deals will be struck with the most amount of face saving on all sides as possible... We will not see lynch-mobs... The "Thai" way will be worked out out of your or my reach and will be placed on the shoulders of the Thai People who will undoubtedly have to bear whatever that resolution is..and will probably be happy it is all over and go back to their lives without all thus bruhaha.

Correct very little was done by the Dems with regard to corruption but the top ten party members wealth increased exponentially in the 2 years they were in office they also realized that reform was going to a much bigger deal than they had imagined and promptly abandoned it... Until recently.. Through villification of the blunders of the current administration and the polarization and the division of the masses and the insurrectionist acts of Abhisits cronies.. they are most assuredly responsible for a huge chunk of what is going on at the moment.

I did not invent anything... I responded to what Abhisit and the Nation invented it in this article..and it was indeed nothing new... Another thread here in TVF ENtitled ABhisit offers... blah blah blah echos this same meritless attention grabbing lull we find ourselves in awaiting the inevitable outcomes..

Abhisit as much as he is liked by the elites is way too polarized in the eyes of the nation as a whole to have any substantial input respected.. Unfortunately he may be all the Dems have at this point... Perhaps some other groups can offer better.

Small minds...? thank you.. unfortunately we cannot all have the big mind that you proffer you have...Cheers

BTW - no I'm not arrogant enough to claim a 'big mind', just a normal one.

You continue to blame Abhisit for being responsible for the current mess when it is clearly PTP (with assistance from Suthep) who are the ones to blame. You can't even bring yourself to mention the amnesty bill which started the crisis.

Abhisit certainly has been against the PTP mob - that's very much an opposition's job. He has been under fire from the relentless Thaksin fuelled DSI over a number of cases - even one as puerile as using electronic funds transfer rather than a cheque. It has all been a failed attempt to get him to submit to the amnesty which, to his great credit, he refused to do. That it has made him oppose PTP even more is hardly surprising.

That the solution to the crisis will be found behing closed doors - I agree with that. As far as web sites with opinion is concerned, many are highly biased, often with scant knowledge of Thai politics and some with agendas that provide more propaganda than fact. I ignore them now after seeing some of the tripe that they spout.

You say that the wealth of the top 10 members of the Democrat party increased exponentially while in power. I'm going to call this another lie as you have made no attempt to back this up. Proof and I'll apologise.

The article was not 'invented by the Nation as it was similarly published in the Bangkok Post. Yes, it had nothing much new but it is as much news as yet another tissue of lies from Thaksin about giving up politics.

Unfortunately for PTP and yourself, the genie is out of the bottle. Suthep has managed to raise the corruption issue into a battle between those who want to do something to abate it and those who want to continue ripping off the country's wealth. Again blaming Abhisit is a straw man argument - manufacture all sorts of crap against him and then shoot it down. Dishonest argument.

I am not just talking about websites I am talking about books histories of Thailand etc. including this one authored by Thais

Corruption and Democracy in Thailand

http://www.silkwormbooks.com/each_titles/e_thailand/corruption_6.htm

It is a great read.. first published in the 90's and then re issued shortly after 2000

with regards to Abhisets MP corruption and MPS wealth increase directly reference [210] at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premiership_of_Abhisit_Vejjajiva

Lots to read both above and below that..

Sorry to see you are snagged on the amnesty bill issue.. it provides great fodder for the current uprising but Abhisits inability to serve up anything other than fluff goes way back beyond that...to the Chuan Leekpai Suthep mess... his mentor I may add. and advisor to the Dems...and just plainly that no matter what they offer up as reforms it will not happen... there are too many people affected by it...even if they tried it would be futile

Try and google some other books on Client-patronage relationships to Thai politics... that will help also... some of us do not rely on just "websites" or colored Thai Media for our background...

Sorry to see you are still stuck on the PTP VS Dems so hard that you refuse to look a little bit higher on the rung... google the 10 wealthies Thai Families.. their relationship to Thai Politics, the Generals the Junta appointed Commisions and "independent agencies... search these people out it is a long exhaustive process but might get you to the point where you stop lumping everybody who is critical of something you are not into a colored shirt.. I am not a PTP supporter.. nor a Dem supporter... I just am not a fan of Abhisit either.. nor am I a fan of the old school patronage client relationship in Thai governments in place today and all previous years since 1932 sin nam jai (spelling?) very old school .. the addition of adding 20-30 percent to any govt contract for facilitation by certain individuals...which incidentally rose to almost 40% it has been pointed out during Abhisit's term in office...at any rate... lot of reading to do and stop with the inference that I support any Thai Political faction .....pure schoolyard tripe

Edited April 25, 2014 by DirtFarmer

[khunken]

Lies, ignorance and verbose.

It is a lie to say that Abhisit has been 'very much instrumental in affecting this whole mess...'. The whole mess was started by PTP's 'bring Thaksin home' amnesty bill triggering mass rallies, Suthep's various groups and the government resigning without first ensuring that money was available for the farmers.

It is just stupid to expect him to release his reform proposals as, no matter what they are, will not be acceptable to PTP. Suthep has proposed a number of reforms that even some PTP/red shirt supporters on this forum have agreed with but the party can't even allow the reform word to be mentioned without condemnation (or election this, election that, we win we do what we like, etc, etc).

While it is true that the Democrat party did little to combat corruption while in power, they didn't make it worse and the scale never reached the Thaksin heights. But they did have a bill prepared to tax land, particularly unused land. This bill was quickly dropped by Yingluck (no doubt on bro's orders).

One can criticise Abhisit for various things like being too mild a leader, but small minds attributing (inventing) things to him that have nothing to do with him is nothing more than lies.

Not lies... Abhisit has been on this train since losing their last election... he has been relentless in his opposition to this government since the inception of the most recent term... that is not a lie.. this mess is a direct result of their inability to affect the voting public with a better platform for the country or an offer of a better future... had there been any substantive manifesto coming from the Democrat party, at all in the last 6 years that the people could perceive as an alternative much less a better alternative going forward.. the Dems might be able to make some headway through normal channels... but they had nothing... they offered nothing, except their scorn for the electorate and the removal of a process that allowed the people to have a say... Most non Bangkok people now are fed up with the entire politic process including not caring to vote as they say their votes will not be counted and have no meaning... this plays perfectly into the hands of these players and their supporters... so for you to even intimate this all started with the amnesty bill is extremely naive and reflects your inability to look at a greater picture than the one suggested by daily Thai Media posted here.. There are a plethora of other sources out there, highly informative and educational and provide a much broader view, particularily of things we are forbidden to speak about here or in Thailand in general (archaic, but it is what it is) regardless of the color of your crayons.

He has touted reform as his banner for the last 8 years little of which was ever implemented... he is well aware that very little will be implemented by him or anyone else...it just goes too deep..They cannot manage reform...to many snouts in the trough.. Two years down the road I will be interested to see what if anything "reform-wise" has happened..just a buzz word.. and a worn out one coming from him.

You know well and good that the resolution of this entire mess is not going to be played out in the press, nor in the eyes or view of the public.. but rather some kind of deals will be struck with the most amount of face saving on all sides as possible... We will not see lynch-mobs... The "Thai" way will be worked out out of your or my reach and will be placed on the shoulders of the Thai People who will undoubtedly have to bear whatever that resolution is..and will probably be happy it is all over and go back to their lives without all thus bruhaha.

Correct very little was done by the Dems with regard to corruption but the top ten party members wealth increased exponentially in the 2 years they were in office they also realized that reform was going to a much bigger deal than they had imagined and promptly abandoned it... Until recently.. Through villification of the blunders of the current administration and the polarization and the division of the masses and the insurrectionist acts of Abhisits cronies.. they are most assuredly responsible for a huge chunk of what is going on at the moment.

I did not invent anything... I responded to what Abhisit and the Nation invented it in this article..and it was indeed nothing new... Another thread here in TVF ENtitled ABhisit offers... blah blah blah echos this same meritless attention grabbing lull we find ourselves in awaiting the inevitable outcomes..

Abhisit as much as he is liked by the elites is way too polarized in the eyes of the nation as a whole to have any substantial input respected.. Unfortunately he may be all the Dems have at this point... Perhaps some other groups can offer better.

Small minds...? thank you.. unfortunately we cannot all have the big mind that you proffer you have...Cheers

BTW - no I'm not arrogant enough to claim a 'big mind', just a normal one.

You continue to blame Abhisit for being responsible for the current mess when it is clearly PTP (with assistance from Suthep) who are the ones to blame. You can't even bring yourself to mention the amnesty bill which started the crisis.

Abhisit certainly has been against the PTP mob - that's very much an opposition's job. He has been under fire from the relentless Thaksin fuelled DSI over a number of cases - even one as puerile as using electronic funds transfer rather than a cheque. It has all been a failed attempt to get him to submit to the amnesty which, to his great credit, he refused to do. That it has made him oppose PTP even more is hardly surprising.

That the solution to the crisis will be found behing closed doors - I agree with that. As far as web sites with opinion is concerned, many are highly biased, often with scant knowledge of Thai politics and some with agendas that provide more propaganda than fact. I ignore them now after seeing some of the tripe that they spout.

You say that the wealth of the top 10 members of the Democrat party increased exponentially while in power. I'm going to call this another lie as you have made no attempt to back this up. Proof and I'll apologise.

The article was not 'invented by the Nation as it was similarly published in the Bangkok Post. Yes, it had nothing much new but it is as much news as yet another tissue of lies from Thaksin about giving up politics.

Unfortunately for PTP and yourself, the genie is out of the bottle. Suthep has managed to raise the corruption issue into a battle between those who want to do something to abate it and those who want to continue ripping off the country's wealth. Again blaming Abhisit is a straw man argument - manufacture all sorts of crap against him and then shoot it down. Dishonest argument.

I am not just talking about websites I am talking about books histories of Thailand etc. including this one authored by Thais

Corruption and Democracy in Thailand

http://www.silkwormbooks.com/each_titles/e_thailand/corruption_6.htm

It is a great read.. first published in the 90's and then re issued shortly after 2000

with regards to Abhisets MP corruption and MPS wealth increase directly reference [210] at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premiership_of_Abhisit_Vejjajiva

Lots to read both above and below that..

Sorry to see you are snagged on the amnesty bill issue.. it provides great fodder for the current uprising but Abhisits inability to serve up anything other than fluff goes way back beyond that...to the Chuan Leekpai Suthep mess... his mentor I may add. and advisor to the Dems...and just plainly that no matter what they offer up as reforms it will not happen... there are too many people affected by it...even if they tried it would be futile

Try and google some other books on Client-patronage relationships to Thai politics... that will help also... some of us do not rely on just "websites" or colored Thai Media for our background...

Sorry to see you are still stuck on the PTP VS Dems so hard that you refuse to look a little bit higher on the rung... google the 10 wealthies Thai Families.. their relationship to Thai Politics, the Generals the Junta appointed Commisions and "independent agencies... search these people out it is a long exhaustive process but might get you to the point where you stop lumping everybody who is critical of something you are not into a colored shirt.. I am not a PTP supporter.. nor a Dem supporter... I just am not a fan of Abhisit either.. nor am I a fan of the old school patronage client relationship in Thai governments in place today and all previous years since 1932 sin nam jai (spelling?) very old school .. the addition of adding 20-30 percent to any govt contract for facilitation by certain individuals...which incidentally rose to almost 40% it has been pointed out during Abhisit's term in office...at any rate... lot of reading to do and stop with the inference that I support any Thai Political faction .....pure schoolyard tripe

Contrary to your inference, I do know a bit about the wealthy families and the army and the commissions, some of which pre-date the last coup despite your attempt to denigrate them.

What is clear is that you make accusations and refuse to back them up which tends to point at a very skewed view of That politics. Also here you are making up a case against Abhisit and then denying that you have any political bias regarding Thailand. It's far too much to swallow given that you have only targeted one side of the political make-up here.

'rose to 40%, it has been pointed out'? By who or is this just another made-up piece of propaganda from the side that you are reluctant to criticise. I respond to posts and pay attention to the content which tends to reveal much more than any pretence of fairness. It is pure tripe & dishonest to claim that your posts in this thread are anything but biased diatribes against one person.

[3NUMBAS]

consult the boy scouts as they dont have a hidden agenda

[ggold]

Good, there will be a lot of support from most directions, but of course the "Must have elections now" gang will never agree to anything else.

What I would like to know is, 'what exactly is his electoral reform package'

This will be the test of his sincerity to clean up politics for any reforms must apply to him and his party along with every

one else.

In my opinion eliminating convicted criminals and fraudsters from standing for office is a must, however that would be unacceptable to at least one party as it would ban a fair proportion of them.

Not if they are banned from politics first! we'll have to wait and see what the constitutional court decides.