Immigration boss confirms the Out-In visa run is dead

[somchaismith]

Don't worry! Pattaya is and still will be full of many out-in and in-out services.

[jpinx]

Another confusing article - many references to tourist visas rather than visa exempt arrivals. Are they now saying that even on a double entry tourist visa you are not allowed to do an 'in-out'?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Does this quote from the OP help you understand ?

“Out-in visa runs will still be possible but they have to show a credible tourism plan and give details of their accommodation to the officials.

“Thirty days should be enough for a normal tourist. If they really want to travel around the country for more than 30 days, then they must show us a plausible plan. If officers are suspicious, then they will carry out checks."

I'm assuming what they mean about "checks" is like calling hotels to confirm that a particular person actually has a reservation to stay there -- matching whatever papers they may show to Immigration.

Real tourists would tend to have hotel or similar reservations, whereas full-time visa-exempt runners would tend to have houses or apartments, but not hotel reservations -- at least up until now.

I think the most effective check is sight of 20,000baht. It's not huge money even for a decent backpacker. Also the confirmed flight ticket out. These rules have been in existence for years -- nothing new really except the implementation

[CP3]

laminate 20 x 1000 notes to bring around..So that one can present them with it when being asked

[FiestyFarang]

I don't see any connection between Thailand's real status has a haven for fake and stolen passports, as evidenced by the Malaysian Air debacle, and the current crackdown on recurring visa-exempt entries.

I'm sure Immigration and the MFA took flak, rightly so, over the stolen passports episodes, not to mention the bigger recent cases of stolen visa stamps from several Thai embassies/consulates that later were being sold out on the open market.

But cracking down on visa-exempt entries would seem to have absolutely no bearing on the problem of stolen/fake passports. I suppose, if one was already in the stolen/fake passports world, they could use those to actually avoid getting caught up in the visa-exempt crackdown.

I guess what would make an impact on the fake/stolen passports issue is their plan to start fingerprinting arrivals -- assuming Immigration is capable of operating such a computerized system across all of their air and land border entry points. You gotta wonder though, since the government can't even seem to manage to keep their Thai IDs and Thai passports computer systems in good operation.

The more times a passport is looked at the more chance a fake/stolen one will be spotted. Was it not the case that the user of one of stolen passports on the missing Malaysia Airlines flight had been doing visa runs prior to his departure on his way to the west as an illegal immigrant. Was Thailand not fairly well-known as something of a "holding pen" for such people who were making their way westwards, and using visa runs to extend their stay until a suitable passport was "prepared" for them.

Presumably they would not be eligible for a Visa Run on their original Passports, Syrian etc.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

If they really do what the General is saying above, that would seem to create real problems for offshore workers who keep returning to Thailand every month or two or three on repeat visa-exempt entries.

I say that in the context that, I'm assuming most of those folks would be maintaining their own home here of some sort -- as opposed to staying in hotels. So when Immigration goes to "check" on their tourist plans, they're going to potentially find the individual with a condo or apartment. And that would seem to be the promise of trouble.

On the other hand, back when I was a real tourist here before retiring, I'd sometimes make 3 or 4 visa-exempt entry trips per year just out of convenience vs going to get a tourist visa, and each time staying anywhere from a week to 3 weeks, always with hotel reservations in various places, of course. I'm assuming that kind of pattern ought to be OK under the newly announced enforcement. But who knows???

[Som wat]

He also confirmed that electronic fingerprinting of people arriving in Thailand will be introduced. “Yes, this is coming soon. We are now waiting for the budget to be approved. It is expensive so we will start by introducing it at international airports first.”

Wouldn't it be appropriate to only have them at international airports.

Unless there are international travelers boarding planes mid-flight in the middle of the country.

I personally think it's good.

For those working illegally it might be time to go, thus effecting the supply and demand. Supply goes down, demand goes up, wages increase. Though this is Planet Thailand, so don't take that for granted.

[draftvader]

Having lived here for 6 years on progressively more established visas (i.e. visa exemption, double-entry tourist visa, non-immi 'O' based off investment interest, non-immi 'B' based off my UK business' interests here then a non-immi 'O' as a dependent spouse off my wife's work permit) I have been through quite a number of their options. I have to say that I admire the border-runners sadistic attitude to life in a warped way. I think that it is Thailand's right to enforce its laws as and when it chooses.

You do have to wonder why they would inflict this on themselves when tourism is so low and they are fighting for every penny they can get....oh...hang on....they're not thinking or communicating, are they?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I think the most effective check is sight of 20,000baht. It's not huge money even for a decent backpacker. Also the confirmed flight ticket out. These rules have been in existence for years -- nothing new really except the implementation

I'm sure having and being able to show 20K in baht along with a air ticket out will be important elements.

But when the OP article and the general talk about people having "a credible tourism plan" and making "checks" on their plans, that sounds like more than just showing money and an air ticket.

[bubba]

Never to come back again, wow people really need to start getting the correct visas then or say bye bye to thai !

Yes, that is absolutely right. ED visa will become very popular now. Just in case anybody needs help with their visas please contact Walen School or PM me.

It would not surprise me at all if schools such as this will be next on the list, and particularly when they are advertising (or spamvertising) what amounts to a visa service. I would expect an extension of this crackdown to these schools the first time one of their "students" has serious run-in with the law, and maybe precisely because "ED visas will become very popular now". It's clear to all of us what Immigration are trying to accomplish here, and they will no doubt now be looking closely at the ED visa loophole and then perhaps close it.

At that point, perhaps ED visas will be granted to real students who are pursuing serious studies at real institutions of higher learning, as they should be, and as is the case in most other countries.

[indieke]

All very confusing. "In and out", yes but what time-limit? I give an example, I am planning a 6-7 week holiday in November. There is a good chance I would not stay all the time in the Kingdom. My plan is after 2 weeks, to do a tour in Burma/Myanmar, for 6 days. Then go back less then 30 days to Thailand. Could that already put me in "trouble"?

If I just apply for a tourist-visa and stay in the Kingdom all the time, that would be no problem.

[xminator]

laminate 20 x 1000 notes to bring around..So that one can present them with it when being asked

The only time I carry 20k baht is after a trip to the ATM. Trough immigration? Never. Plan would always be the ATM near exit.

[frimu]

I hope they have more luck with the finger scanners than the had here in Cambodia.

They started scanning a couple of years ago. All 10 fingers of tourists that hardly speak any English, by guys that hardly speak a word of English. Huge frustration, much shouting, enormous queues.

Result: the scanners are still there but haven't been used for a year

That is not correct!

I visited Phnom Penh in January and my fingerprints were scanned at the airport!

[makescents]

Doubt the ED visa will become more popular. How can you work illegally if you are attending a language school class?

Just glad that I got Non-O visas before and after my marriage - saves so many of these headaches...

[jakhoeblal]

Clear!!!

Tourist Visa for tourist only !

Get rid of so called 'tourists' and poor foreigners

[jpinx]

All very confusing. "In and out", yes but what time-limit? I give an example, I am planning a 6-7 week holiday in November. There is a good chance I would not stay all the time in the Kingdom. My plan is after 2 weeks, to do a tour in Burma/Myanmar, for 6 days. Then go back less then 30 days to Thailand. Could that already put me in "trouble"?

If I just apply for a tourist-visa and stay in the Kingdom all the time, that would be no problem.

Just explain all that when you apply for your double entry tourist visa in the Thai embassy/consulate in your country.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Good on the Phuket News for getting a direct interview with the national Immigration commander, especially on this kind of topic.

But while we're on the subject of visa and passport fraud, too bad they didn't get a chance to ask him what had become of his subordinates who recently were re-assigned after having been suspected of collaborating with shady visa service company or companies. The link below was from earlier this month, dated May 3:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/723289-investigation-finds-senior-immigration-police-officers-linked-to-visa-scam/?hl=%20immigration%20%20officers%20%20reassigned

A source inside the bureau, who did not wish to be named, explained that an internal investigation found sufficient information which revealed that the officers may have been involved with a company that illegally arranged visas for foreign nationals in Thailand.

The investigation into this matter began when the visa company, which has not been named at this stage, claimed on its own website that it could arrange visa renewals for foreigners living in Thailand, without them needing to leave the country, for a fee of 6,000 THB.

It would seem visa runners aren't the only ones "abusing" the Immigration system.

[transam]

Blacklisted for visa runs

"If we believe their purpose in coming to Thailand is not what they say it is, then we will order them to leave and they will be blacklisted. They will not be able to return to Thailand, ever."

How about that?!

You are trying very hard today, if immigration reads this site the penny might finally drop..................

Not sure what is your point transam, perhaps not all are actually reading this article, it says they CAN blacklist you for visa runs! I have not heard about it before, have you? I don't think so.

Sorry, seems you do not understand an English saying............

To make it simpler, you keep advertising that you can fix a visa for folk LOS wants to get rid of for 24,000bht. If I was an immigration officer I would look into stuff. In fact I think you could be making a big mistake opening the eyes of Thai officials, but, up to you eh.

[hanno]

Bye Bye tourist Hub of the world

I do not think this will have any effect on bona fide tourists.

[jpinx]

re-assigned to inactive posts until retirement ?

[stickylies]

hub of enforcements... curious how long it will last.

[larsjohnsson]

Blacklisted for visa runs

"If we believe their purpose in coming to Thailand is not what they say it is, then we will order them to leave and they will be blacklisted. They will not be able to return to Thailand, ever."

How about that?!

Maybe they belive you have signed up on that Thai class just to get a ED visa, and then blacklist you

[terryp]

" we will order them to leave and they will be blacklisted. They will not be able to return to Thailand, ever."

He says this as if 3rd world corrupt THAILAND is the place to be...there are many many better places in the World...............i have a non O for the past 15 years and even i am thinking of moving away for this idiotic country, just not the fun place for me anymore (tired)

I actually know a few people who were blacklisted and are now living in Phuket , Pattaya and Bangkok so it works well

[Gonki]

Question:

On some occasions do visa runs from Laos to Thailand. I enter and exit Thailand on same day. I know several people in Vientiane who do same.

Will we be affected?

[tomyumchai]

The black list threat seems pretty horrible if it's just based on their "opinion" about a person. I can see that in case of an arrest and evidence proven. Imagine if it happened to you and it wasn't true especially if you are settled with lots of property here. This kind of hard core tactic should be really troubling to ALL foreigners here, no matter how totally legit you think you are. You might think this isn't about you, but to immigration you're just another SUSPECT, and don't forget that.

more worrying is if you fall foul of some twisted beeatch who runs to immigration telling tales of things that arnt true (or might be). as a senario, ive dumped my g/f as she showed up on facebook lying across the bed.......it wasnt my bed. what if she gets twisted and runs to immigration saying i fixed a mates bike for him? or even some farang 'grass' who decides he doesnt like you because you have a loud bike?

im concerned.

.....but i havnt got a loud bike.

[Rosco911]

It would now be interesting to see the true tourist figures. My guess is 30% drop.

[jmccarty]

It is difficult for a number of people with relative high incomes that either buy or rent houses here but work on international construction projects or even operations of oilfields etc. and are not eligible for over 50 visas or marriage related visas. I have not looked closely at it, but have a few friends I think that will just move to Malaysia or Cambodia because of this. I have a work permit otherwise would probably never come here, especially if they continue to make it more difficult to stay past 3 days. Then again, I don't recall ever needing to stay more than 30 days when I used to work on projects in any case. Maybe it will not effect those few I know of.

[catweazle]

“Lots of nationalities come to Thailand on tourist visas but they come to work. I really want them to do the right thing, not try to dodge around the law and evade taxes."

Isn't evasion of taxes, dodging laws and corruption what the Thai people (politicians, police, officials and businessmen alike) teach foreigners by example on a daily basis?

Thai citizens and officials - let's start with the man in the mirror, shall we?

And in addition: Does Thai law make it easy for companies to officially and properly employ greater numbers of foreign employees and thus "do the right thing" ? Answer: NO!

Does Thai law make it easy for foreigners to officially obtain workpermits, non-immigrant B visas so they can "do the right thing" ? Answer: NO!

Does Thailand want foreigners to work here at all? Answer: NO!

Is Thailand on a suicide mission? Answer: YES!

[devaram]

Malaysia will become the new packpacker hub with the new KLIA 2 budget airline airport with cheap flights to everywhere in Asia and 90days on arrival which can be repeated as many times as you need.

I will be running for prime minister next year ( farang freedom party) and I plan to allow unlimited border runs for western europe, australia japan and north american passport holders and we will be charging them 1000 baht at the border each time. The revenue from that will pay for the high speed railway from chiangmai to singapore within 5 years.

I dont mean to sound impolite but you gov officials dont have a clue about how to run your own country.

Instead of killing a harmless channel why not monitise it to bring maximum benefit to Thailand?

[thaikahuna]

"If we believe their purpose in coming to Thailand is not what they say it is, then we will order them to leave and they will be blacklisted. They will not be able to return to Thailand, ever."

So, if some guard at an immigration post has a bad day or just doesn't like your looks, he can at his discretion bar you from Thailand forever, because your story wasn't convincing enough for him. The possibilities for additional payoffs are infinite, I suppose.

It was ever thus.. The immigration officer has always had the exclusive right to determine if you should be let in or not.

As is so with ANY country, a visa is NOT a guarantee of entry. It is merely a document that will allow you to move freely if granted entry.

[jethro69]

I hope they have more luck with the finger scanners than the had here in Cambodia.

They started scanning a couple of years ago. All 10 fingers of tourists that hardly speak any English, by guys that hardly speak a word of English. Huge frustration, much shouting, enormous queues.

Result: the scanners are still there but haven't been used for a year

Nonsense, they were taken at arrival and departure, not even 2 weeks ago. Pretty straight-forward, but maybe I'm used to get my prints taken..