Gay dads make better fathers?

[MyFriend You]

I am wondering why this is news?? Move it along folks, nothing to see here.

[shadmo63]

Just to add my 20 cents worth - I haven't been in the gay area before so excuse me if I am repetitive.

I am 100% straight and have two daughters 16 and 21 y o who are both straight too. They would both consider it absolutely ridiculous that people would hold anything against anyone because of their sexuality. They would consider the 'Adam and Steve' views on here as very 20th Century. Why draw a line in the sand over a parents gender and/or sexuality when there are so so many other factors that matter more? Parents that love their children is all that matters. Every thing else will flow from that. There are so many possible character flaws in humans, that could be used to judge fitness as a parent, why would you only exclude people based on sexuality/gender, which is not even a flaw? Not a criteria I would use. Small minded view IMO.

Someone earlier mentioned a gay man 'performing' with a woman for procreation. I don't understand how you could - unless you were bisexual. The idea of sleeping with a man turns my stomach. Is it not the same with gays and women? I've been watching the 'Ladyboys' show on Telly. These farang guys with ladyboys consider they are straight - I can't come at that either; yes they have strong feminine traits but they also have a cock. Small minded view?

[ToddWeston]

OK ... ToddWeston has them for a year when they are 5

sustento for an undefined time when they are 10

Any Gay Aunts available?

Can't split them though ... the boys come as a pair.

.

I'm hoping they have a wee bit more hair by the time I get them, I planned on spending the year discussing hair care products.

Lucky Susteno he gets them at the moisturiser skin care age, I'm jealous.

[David48]

"I have two little terrors ... Gay Uncles please apply here ... "

I think you'd need to screen the applicants pretty carefully David

Are you implying that gay applicants call for extra screening or did you mean that straight applicants should be equally screened? If the former please explain your reasoning.

JT, I think it was just a light hearted comment, not meant for derision.

Well, that's how I received it.

Welcome back BTW.

.

[David48]

OK ... ToddWeston has them for a year when they are 5

sustento for an undefined time when they are 10

Any Gay Aunts available?

Can't split them though ... the boys come as a pair.

.

I'm hoping they have a wee bit more hair by the time I get them, I planned on spending the year discussing hair care products.

Lucky Susteno he gets them at the moisturiser skin care age, I'm jealous.

Mate, they got shaved a month ago for the Bhudda thing some the kids get done

But, they are Light growers, I'll admit that.

I'll get them practising from an early age ... Uncle Toddy, Uncle Toddy Daddy we need this.

[catweazle]

Think we're all getting carried away here. Gender topics are a very slippery terrain, and I think it's about time to get back to the headline of this thread: Do gay dads make better fathers? The gay community does not want to be treated as 2nd class people, want to be equal, right? So eventually that means, gays will neither make better, nor worse fathers, especially since amongst all gay men, there will be nice, kind and gentle people in approximately an equal percentage to the nice, kind and gentle percentages found in the population of straight or bisexual men. So the topic's question in itself is a kind of oxymoron.

Being gay does not make a man be a better person, being hetero or bi does not make a man a better person, so what?

Reading all the posts here, there is one point we all agree on: Most important for the child is that it is raised by parents who love them and who care for them to the best of their abilities.

Leaving everyone's personal sexual orientation and the phobias that may come with it out of this discussion, we kind of have a draw, no?

Would be nice if we could end this discussion in peace.

Edited June 19, 2014 by catweazle

[watso63]

Think we're all getting carried away here. Gender topics are a very slippery terrain, and I think it's about time to get back to the headline of this thread: Do gay dads make better fathers? The gay community does not want to be treated as 2nd class people, want to be equal, right? So eventually that means, gays will neither make better, nor worse fathers, especially since amongst all gay men, there will be nice, kind and gentle people in approximately an equal percentage to the nice, kind and gentle percentages found in the population of straight or bisexual men. So the topic's question in itself is a kind of oxymoron.

Being gay does not make a man be a better person, being hetero or bi does not make a man a better person, so what?

Reading all the posts here, there is one point we all agree on: Most important for the child is that it is raised by parents who love them and who care for them to the best of their abilities.

Leaving everyone's personal sexual orientation and the phobias that may come with it out of this discussion, we kind of have a draw, no?

Would be nice if we could end this discussion in peace.

I more or less agree with everything you've said on this topic. It is a tough one. I too have and have had, a few gay friends and I agree with your sentiments about your friends. What I do object to are the gay pride street style parades where the overtly camp bare arsed leather chaps clad types strut their stuff. If youwant to do that crap, then fine do it in your gay clubs and bars.

As for better parents? Unless orphaned, most children eligable for fostering/adoption will most certainly come from a troubled background ie a failed heterosexual union or a failed single parent. Of course a steady grounded same sex couple, with good finances, stable relationship may well seem the preferred or ideal placement for a child. What no one really knows, is how the child will feel as he/she grows up towards the situation and may even become hostile and resentful. So, for me it isn't a gay rights issue (though certain people will campaign saying it is), it is a child rights issue.

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[anono222]

Poppycock to say the least.

[catweazle]

Poppycock to say the least.

Is it - under the circumstance that we are discussing a slippery gay subject here - political correct to say "Poppy cock" ?

Just wanna make sure

However, I fully agree!

Edited June 19, 2014 by catweazle

[cocopops]

It's not clear that their being gay has anything to do with it. Just as likely it's that in the absence of a female parent the male parent(s) take on some of the roles and behaviors usually more predominant in mothers.

Comparing gay and straight single fathers might tell us more.

[Scott]

Off-topic and inflammatory posts along with replies have been deleted.

Gay parades are a little far off-topic.

[watso63]

Think we're all getting carried away here. Gender topics are a very slippery terrain, and I think it's about time to get back to the headline of this thread: Do gay dads make better fathers? The gay community does not want to be treated as 2nd class people, want to be equal, right? So eventually that means, gays will neither make better, nor worse fathers, especially since amongst all gay men, there will be nice, kind and gentle people in approximately an equal percentage to the nice, kind and gentle percentages found in the population of straight or bisexual men. So the topic's question in itself is a kind of oxymoron.

Being gay does not make a man be a better person, being hetero or bi does not make a man a better person, so what?

Reading all the posts here, there is one point we all agree on: Most important for the child is that it is raised by parents who love them and who care for them to the best of their abilities.

Leaving everyone's personal sexual orientation and the phobias that may come with it out of this discussion, we kind of have a draw, no?

Would be nice if we could end this discussion in peace.

I more or less agree with everything you've said on this topic. It is a tough one. I too have and have had, a few gay friends and I agree with your sentiments about your friends. What I do object to are the gay pride street style parades where the overtly camp bare arsed leather chaps clad types strut their stuff. If youwant to do that crap, then fine do it in your gay clubs and bars.

As for better parents? Unless orphaned, most children eligable for fostering/adoption will most certainly come from a troubled background ie a failed heterosexual union or a failed single parent. Of course a steady grounded same sex couple, with good finances, stable relationship may well seem the preferred or ideal placement for a child. What no one really knows, is how the child will feel as he/she grows up towards the situation and may even become hostile and resentful. So, for me it isn't a gay rights issue (though certain people will campaign saying it is), it is a child rights issue.

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Well put!!! I am in full agreement, especially regarding the gay parades - that is the kind of stuff assuring that gays will remain to be bullied and mistreated around the world and regarded to as 2nd class citizens as onthemoon put it. You can be gay, but do you have to shout it out proudly into everyone's face in such annoying ways?

Have you ever seen a gay parade other than in the newspapers?

Yes, went on a night out with a friend in Manchester (UK). I found it very unpleasant...but what exactly is your point? I have stated that I am not anti gay even though I have been honest and said, not for me thank you and I admit that the thought of gay sex makes my stomach churn (sick) however you want to put it. I don't like camp gays, such as Graham Norton...ie in your face GAY. I do however think Rob Halford of Judas Priest is my favourite singer in the world. I idolised him as a youngster and when he finally came out, my opinion of him never changed. Anyway the topic is about whether gay fathers make better parents. The only real and truthful answer is that it depends on a whole list of unquantifiable circumstancss...but I do believe it is a good debating platform. Good for gay people to read about heterosexual opinion and visa versa.

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Edited June 19, 2014 by watso63

[sustento]

Yes, went on a night out with a friend in Manchester (UK). I found it very unpleasant...but what exactly is your point? I have stated that I am not anti gay even though I have been honest and said, not for me thank you and I admit that the thought of gay sex makes my stomach churn (sick) however you want to put it. I don't like camp gays, such as Graham Norton...ie in your face GAY. I do however think Rob Halford of Judas Priest is my favourite singer in the world. I idolised him as a youngster and when he finally came out, my opinion of him never changed. Anyway the topic is about whether gay fathers make better parents. The only real and truthfull answer is that it depends on a whole list of unquantifiable circumstancss...but I do believe it is a good debating platform. Good for gay people to read about heterosexual opinion and visa versa.

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You're answering a question I didn't ask. A common complaint is that gays 'force themselves down other people's throats' by having gay parades. I was just asking whether catweazle had ever actually seen a gay parade.

You're saying that you actually volunteered to go on a night out which is a completely different thing. No-one forced you to go did they?

As for gay people reading about heterosexual opinion don't worry we read about it all the time. One of the functions of the gay forum is that we can escape it for a little while.

[Jingthing]

In my view this forum is no longer any kind of escape from so called heterosexual opinion. It seems pretty much every topic here gets peppered thusly.

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Edited June 19, 2014 by Jingthing

[transam]

In my view this forum is no longer any kind of escape from so called heterosexual opinion. It seems pretty much every topic here gets peppered thusly.

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Well, perhaps it would be 'enlightening' for a gay guy or gal to come forward and say it is not good for a babe to have same sex parents for the reasons. I am sure they are out there but seems not here.

May I add, I have a gay friend who agrees that gay folk should leave babes to a mum and dad.

[sustento]

In my view this forum is no longer any kind of escape from so called heterosexual opinion. It seems pretty much every topic here gets peppered thusly.

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Well, perhaps it would be 'enlightening' for a gay guy or gal to come forward and say it is not good for a babe to have same sex parents for the reasons. I am sure they are out there but seems not here.

May I add, I have a gay friend who agrees that gay folk should leave babes to a mum and dad.

Apparently not but as you have a gay friend who agrees with you why are you complaining that we don't? WE don't all have to believe the same thing.

[Jingthing]

Righto mate. Dudes we are in an international civil right movement for equal gay civil rights. One of those basic human rights is parental rights. I'm sure there were Uncle Tom types who used to say interracial couples shouldn't be parents because the social hostility of bigotted society was hard on the kids. All kids lack perfect parents. They don't exist. Diverse civilized societies feature diverse parents. If the parents of any kind can't cut it then states get involved. And so it goes.

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[transam]

In my view this forum is no longer any kind of escape from so called heterosexual opinion. It seems pretty much every topic here gets peppered thusly.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Well, perhaps it would be 'enlightening' for a gay guy or gal to come forward and say it is not good for a babe to have same sex parents for the reasons. I am sure they are out there but seems not here.

May I add, I have a gay friend who agrees that gay folk should leave babes to a mum and dad.

Apparently not but as you have a gay friend who agrees with you why are you complaining that we don't? WE don't all have to believe the same thing.

Absolutely, but gay folk here (not many) paint a one sided picture, which it is not.

[sustento]

In my view this forum is no longer any kind of escape from so called heterosexual opinion. It seems pretty much every topic here gets peppered thusly.

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Well, perhaps it would be 'enlightening' for a gay guy or gal to come forward and say it is not good for a babe to have same sex parents for the reasons. I am sure they are out there but seems not here.

May I add, I have a gay friend who agrees that gay folk should leave babes to a mum and dad.

Apparently not but as you have a gay friend who agrees with you why are you complaining that we don't? WE don't all have to believe the same thing.

Absolutely, but gay folk here (not many) paint a one sided picture, which it is not.

No-one is deliberately trying to paint a one-sided picture. It's just that we tend to believe that gay folks can make just as good parents as straight folks and it's rather insulting to assume we can't because we happen to be gay. I'm sure that if you went down your local pub and asked everyone in there most of them would agree with you.

Edited June 19, 2014 by sustento

[sustento]

*Deleted post edited out*

What's that supposed to mean? If a gay couple want a child, either by adoption or third party intervention, they have to go through anything up to a year of unannounced visits by social workers. They have to have police checks. They have to have full medicals. They have to provide multiple referees. They have to go to parenting classes. They have to present themselves to an experienced independent adoption panel who, after all that, may very well say no.

Straight parents just have to climb into bed together. No checks on them.

It seems to me that gay parents are just as, if not more, suitable after all that.

[Jingthing]

Regardless of outlying gay right wingers the international gay civil rights movement moves forward with the inevitable setbacks. Equal parental rights for gay parents the same as the unfortunately non-gay (sarcasm alert) are an integral part of this political movement. It is an issue that has been historically more important to lesbians than gay men. To the poster lecturing me about what words I am supposed to use I suggest focus on your own words not others.

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Edited June 19, 2014 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Many lesbians have babies from birth. There are also gay dads who have babies via previous hetero couplings.

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[onthemoon]

Poppycock to say the least.

Is it - under the circumstance that we are discussing a slippery gay subject here - political correct to say "Poppy cock" ?

Just wanna make sure

However, I fully agree!

Sure it is OK to say Poppy cock: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poppycock

It's off-topic, though. This is not the food forum. Here we talk about serious things.

Edit: "The only gay in the village" by Little Britain is always hilarious. British humour at its best.

Edited June 19, 2014 by onthemoon

[onthemoon]

Just to add my 20 cents worth - I haven't been in the gay area before so excuse me if I am repetitive.

I am 100% straight and have two daughters 16 and 21 y o who are both straight too. They would both consider it absolutely ridiculous that people would hold anything against anyone because of their sexuality. They would consider the 'Adam and Steve' views on here as very 20th Century. Why draw a line in the sand over a parents gender and/or sexuality when there are so so many other factors that matter more? Parents that love their children is all that matters. Every thing else will flow from that. There are so many possible character flaws in humans, that could be used to judge fitness as a parent, why would you only exclude people based on sexuality/gender, which is not even a flaw? Not a criteria I would use. Small minded view IMO.

Someone earlier mentioned a gay man 'performing' with a woman for procreation. I don't understand how you could - unless you were bisexual. The idea of sleeping with a man turns my stomach. Is it not the same with gays and women? I've been watching the 'Ladyboys' show on Telly. These farang guys with ladyboys consider they are straight - I can't come at that either; yes they have strong feminine traits but they also have a cock. Small minded view?

I think you have raised your daughters well.

And it's OK if you wouldn't want to have sex with a guy - I know quite a number of gay guys who couldn't stomach a sexual encounter with a woman.

I know may gays who have had sex with women, several who have children, and quite a number of straight guys who have had sex with guys in their past. And that's OK too.

Ladyboys are a different issue for another thread, let's not mix this up.

[onthemoon]

Think we're all getting carried away here. Gender topics are a very slippery terrain, and I think it's about time to get back to the headline of this thread: Do gay dads make better fathers? The gay community does not want to be treated as 2nd class people, want to be equal, right? So eventually that means, gays will neither make better, nor worse fathers, especially since amongst all gay men, there will be nice, kind and gentle people in approximately an equal percentage to the nice, kind and gentle percentages found in the population of straight or bisexual men. So the topic's question in itself is a kind of oxymoron.

Being gay does not make a man be a better person, being hetero or bi does not make a man a better person, so what?

Reading all the posts here, there is one point we all agree on: Most important for the child is that it is raised by parents who love them and who care for them to the best of their abilities.

Leaving everyone's personal sexual orientation and the phobias that may come with it out of this discussion, we kind of have a draw, no?

Would be nice if we could end this discussion in peace.

I don't see it as a draw, but I agree with you.

[duanebigsby]

A good father makes a good father.

Nothing else matters.

Don't know why there is much more discussion than that.

[GOLDBUGGY]

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Time to stop all this gender mainstreaming bu!!$#it !

Gay and lesbian couples should be accepted and left alone to do their thing, but should absolutely NOT be granted children! If they choose to stay in a relationship that due to a biological catch22 situation will never produce children in a natural way, they have to suffer the consequence which is: No children!

The world is wobbling into dangerous terrain, where gender mainstreaming and the destruction of historical and cultural values seem to be forced onto the population not to make this world a better place, but with a sinister intention and plan behind it. If conservative values of our childhood are destroyed and mankind becomes a grey soup of genderless "its", we might lose our self consciousness as a whole and eventually the grip on reality and conventional believe systems in general.

We then will become an easy to control and easy to manipulate soup of nobodies (even worse than now). Some european countries are working on erasing the words (Vater) "father" and (Mutter) "mother" to replace it with a neutrum (das Elter) "a parent" and words like (Vaterland) "fatherland" with the given reason that such words are discriminating and offensive.

The study and subject of this OP is a part of the worldwide gender mainstreaming brain wash. I vow to make a stand and fight against this whenever I can, because I believe that a proper family consists of a mother and a father and children, not two gay dads and children, not two lesbian moms and children. It does not exist in nature and it should not exist in our "civilized" world, even though she is full of ignorant dogooders and "everything is awesome if you scream with the mainstream" people. There are times when one has to go against the flow to remain a sane and independently thinking and acting personality, and this time is now!!!

I won't debate your points as you are entitled to your beliefs and I am not in a position to say your are wrong, or right. I just need to ask one question based on your post.

If a "proper family consist of a mother and a father and children" what kind of families do we have now-a-days with a 50% Divorce Rate? With Single Parent Mothers raising there children, and sometimes this child has a new Daddy every 2 months? Your wishes as to what a real family should be is admiral. But they are only wishes. They rarely happen in this real world we live in today. The "Leave it to Beaver" or "Happy Days" Parents are long gone.

Personally I would sooner be raised by 2 Loving Parents, regardless of the Gender, then being in the middle of a Cat Fight and raised by Parents who fight all the time and are going through a Divorce. Or by parents who are both alcoholic and love that bottle more than me.

I understand your point of view GoldBuggy and you have points there with the exception that your conclusions implement that all gay couples never split up, are more stable than conservative couples, don't drink, don't fight, etc. what can't be the case. I am quite sure that a lot of bitchfighting is going on among gay couples and the few gay disagreements and fights I have witnessed so far were all but pretty to say the least.

Biggest problem is, that many gay people think they are very special and deserve VIP treatment. If they want to be regarded to as "normal" people, they should switch a gear or two back and take the foot off the gas like for example our RonThai in this thread.

The solution is simple - let the world vote:

Child Michael Templar, 3 years old lost both parents in a car accident. Two couples want to adopt him. A ) Is Dave and Chrystal Washington, married happily for 5 years, and B ) Thomas and Jeff Byron married happily for 5 years.

Does anyone who has left a shred of sanity in his head believe the majority of this word would vote for couple B? And allow me to spin this further - who believes that Michael, after having lived three years with his real Mom/Dad parents, would choose couple B?

I don't think so! And there we have it.

Again you raise good points that can't be argued. Gay Couples do fight I am sure and Divorce. My point, and you reinforced it, was that because it is more difficult for a Gay Couple to adopt a child one can therefore assume that they must have crystal clean record and want this child badly. But this to is only an assumption. So granted no all couple of either gender are fit to raise children. This we agree on.

I also agree that at first look it would be most likely Dave and Chrystal Washington who should get to adopt this child. But as I also pointed out there is more to this then just being a Man and Woman. If all things are equal, which I think you tried to imply including Family Stability, Finances good enough to provide a good home and future education, then I would agree with you. But I would agree not based that they would make better parents. I would agree that there would be less stigma attached to him verses a Gay Couple.

But lets now change this table around a little. Let's now say the Dave and Chrystal Washing are a Black Couple, Thomas and Jeff are White, and the child Michael Templar is White. What Now? Or if Michael is Black, the Washington's are white, and Thomas and Jeff are Black? Or one couple is atheist and the other Catholic, where the Child was Baptised as a Catholic. Hum???

My point is that it is not just Man & Woman that make good parents. Especially adopted ones. There are many things to look at including culture, heritage, religion, skin color, desire, education, and environment.

[Jingthing]

To add it is obvious and implied that parenting is a mixture of rights and responsibilities. Not all adults are up to the task but sexual orientation is not the determinant of that any more than race or religion.

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[David48]

Now, lets steer this back to the OP please ...

One thing I do know is that if a baby/child was stuck in an Orphanage or a kid living on the street, if 2 gay people, in a stable relationship offered that person a better start in life, that person would, most likely, embrace it gleefully.

Just because you are Gay should not create a negative disposition or attitude as to an ability to be an effective parent.

Someone said above one of the best comments on this thread, in paraphrasing ...

A good Parent makes a good Parent.

.

[manarak]

I'm sure gay dads have innate capabilities similar to the most whipped males... Not that I really care...

Guys, come to Thailand and leave behind that fear to lose your pussy. One lost, ten new!!!

Edited June 19, 2014 by manarak