The Wind of Changes regarding outdated Thai bike laws?

[Shurup]

Seeing as the military government cleaning up the country and making things right that are decades overdue, I thought it may be our chance to do something about the outdated bike laws. I really believe it is the right time.

I thought of creating a campaign with causes.com (or similar site), get enough people to sign it and then send it to the government hoping that something will be done about it.

Stress needs to be made on the riders's safety foremost, with the police corruption (using these outdated laws to milk the riders for tee money) as a second point.

That ought to grab their attention if enough people sign the petition.

Could also mention that Thailand is the only SE Asian country with such backwards laws.

2 rules I'm thinking about are the left lane rule, which is everyone's gripe who lives or travels through the BKK, and staying off the tollways.

The petition needs to be in both, Thai and English language and should be started by a Thai to be even considered (considering general Thai attitude towards falangs).

Opinions / thoughts?

[wantan]

And for what cc you want to open the tollways? Or maybe i should ask: What cc has YOUR bike?

They will not change it, and for sure not now, because they want peace in the country, not more conflicts. And iirr not even we bikers here in this forum can agree on how to handle this. Opening tollways (or any other privilege) for high cc bikes is a provocation for poor people with smaller bikes.

With the left lane rule its easier. But i don't think they will change it. Its not really a problem now. But changing it can cause problems. So they will keep it.

Thats the problem with everything that goes wrong in this country, you cannot change it. It simply doesn't work. There is too much chaos in everything, so every change (even with good intentions) just creates more chaos.

Not sure if this post really makes sense, but for me it does

Edited June 10, 2014 by wantan

[Gweiloman]

We would all of course love to see some changes to the traffic rules with regards to motorcyclists. But having lived in Thailand now for an extended period of time and having observed how inconsistent the Thais are in every aspect of life, I doubt very much if any significant changes would be forthcoming in my lifetime.

My main observations have been that the Thais have their own sense of logic which they themselves do not even know. In other words, logic is too abstract a concept for them to grasp. Logic is an invention of the first world, borne out of necessity to have structure and order in their lives. Thais do not live by the same precept so logic (as westerners know it) is not necessary and does not have a place in their lives.

I doubt this makes sense to anyone but myself but after sufficient black sodas, makes perfect sense to me

[Shurup]

Guys have you ever ventured out of the bike forum and read other news? Many things took place in the last month that I thought were not possible in this country but it happened. In the past month the military junta has done more good for Thailand than all the previous governments have done in decades. That's why I believe the changes are possible, we just need to present our case in a few good and simple words and with enough signatures. Sitting on a chair in front of your computer and saying nope, it won't happen - won't change anything and nobody would get hurt for giving it a try anyways.

Sent from my mobile, whatever mobile it is.

[Shurup]

CC wise is easy to decide if they are willing to make a change. For all I care they can outline a few qualifying criteria and leave it up for the garages that do the yearly inspections when you go to renew the road tax.

I don't see how this is going to create more conflicts? There aren't any conflicts with this in Singapore (for example) with bikes using the highways.

Sent from my mobile, whatever mobile it is.

[Shurup]

If a bike can easily keep up with a traffic then I don't see the reason why they can't use the toll ways. So it will make it 150 cc and up and of course the bike needs to be mechanically sound.

What I have? One is 300 and one is 400 cc but it's irrelevant to this topic.

Sent from my mobile, whatever mobile it is.

[papa al]

Go for it Shurup.

Start your petition or whatever.

I suppose you wife or girlfriend supports you in this and she can sponsor the effort.

Edited June 10, 2014 by papa al

[RubberSideDown]

You really think this is the 'right time'?

"General, I've got a petition here from a bunch of foreigners and wealthy Thais who want to ride their expensive motorcycles on tollways and no longer want to be limited to the left lane- I'm sure you have plenty of time at the moment to work on new traffic laws that will only affect a tiny percentage of the population."

[cornishcarlos]

Can we get Thai wife's to start another petition to get us a 5 year multi entry visa too.

Might as well nail both with the same visit to the General..!

[Shurup]

You really think this is the 'right time'?

"General, I've got a petition here from a bunch of foreigners and wealthy Thais who want to ride their expensive motorcycles on tollways and no longer want to be limited to the left lane- I'm sure you have plenty of time at the moment to work on new traffic laws that will only affect a tiny percentage of the population."

I did say the stress needs to be made on riders' safety and police corruption, or maybe on police corruption 1st and then riders' safety - nothing about falangs wanting to ride their expensive bikes... You guys obviously don't follow other news and have no ideas on what's going on around you...

[bkkjames]

Dear OP: Again this morning another biker laid lifeless on a flyover bridge on Rama 3 as traffic piled up for miles from Rama 4 with emergency crews stuck.

Clamp down on this illegal behaviour and save some lives. Can only imagine the carnage if they are allowed on toll-ways.

[papa al]

Honda CBR150, and Suzuki Raider150 are both less than 150cc, so for bikes in production, a 250 would effectively be the minimum I guess,.

Only foreigners and relatively wealthy Thais can afford these, no?

Likely the General already is aware of the police corruption situation as is every Thai, but I think you should go ahead and voice your concern to him regardless.

Let us know when you have the petition drive set up.

Right on!

Go, go!

[ll2]

nice try shurup. if we were in a country with proper standards and no political problems etc, i can sign it.

I do not think so Generals even consider this with all these bigger problems waiting to be resolved.

[Hili]

All these campaings of the junta is just propaganda, once the eyes are off thailand everything will be back same same but different. Been there done that.

[RubberSideDown]

You really think this is the 'right time'?

"General, I've got a petition here from a bunch of foreigners and wealthy Thais who want to ride their expensive motorcycles on tollways and no longer want to be limited to the left lane- I'm sure you have plenty of time at the moment to work on new traffic laws that will only affect a tiny percentage of the population."

I did say the stress needs to be made on riders' safety and police corruption, or maybe on police corruption 1st and then riders' safety - nothing about falangs wanting to ride their expensive bikes... You guys obviously don't follow other news and have no ideas on what's going on around you...

No, we only live here and ride motorcycles- I've been on the roads here for 13 years, so I kind of have an idea of what's going on around me... By all means feel free to tell me something I don't know, though- I never read the paper or watch the news or check any sites other than this particular sub-section, or even leave my house except for a quick ride- I exist in a bubble insulated from anything other than what I learn from threads like these.

Indulge yourself with your grand ideas of road reform, but, frankly, if there's a list of the top hundred things the new government needs to do, I very much doubt that's on it. To say this is the 'right time' for something like changing the rules for big bike and to expect to actually be taken seriously shows that you're the one out of touch.

I agree with you in principle, but not in practice- Thailand is what it is, and it's not going to change anytime soon (or ever)- I've adapted myself to it rather than expecting it to change to suit me.

[VocalNeal]

I think the only wind of change foreigners will experience is the the smell from the new pig farm upwind from their multimillion baht house.

On topic: Why can't we just live here and embrace the things we came to Asia for, rather than trying to get things changed so it becomes more like the places we came from?

Edited June 11, 2014 by VocalNeal

[332]

Thanks. Shurup.

Your posts made me laugh, a lot.

[Shurup]

Thanks. Shurup.

Your posts made me laugh, a lot.

Glad you found it entertaining. Which other postS are you referring too?

Everyone else thanks for the replies. The constructive criticism and opinions on the topic are welcome and are what I've been looking for.

Honestly I don't care much if anything changes, I don't live in BKK and don't ride to / through BKK and I can handle those rare occasions when I have to go in. Was thinking the Bangkokians would like the idea and possibly give me a hand putting the petition together.

Sent from my mobile, whatever mobile it is.

[cornishcarlos]

Thanks. Shurup.

Your posts made me laugh, a lot.

Glad you found it entertaining. Which other postS are you referring too?

Everyone else thanks for the replies. The constructive criticism and opinions on the topic are welcome and are what I've been looking for.

Honestly I don't care much if anything changes, I don't live in BKK and don't ride to / through BKK and I can handle those rare occasions when I have to go in. Was thinking the Bangkokians would like the idea and possibly give me a hand putting the petition together.

Sent from my mobile, whatever mobile it is.

I think it's a great idea... Not sure it would make any difference but at least you are willing to try.

My post about the Thai wife's was tongue in cheek slightly but along the same lines.

Get a group of 100 people carrying a petition with 10,000 names on, knock on the big mans door and you'd be surprised what an impact it might have?

Then again, maybe the pessimists are right

[wantan]

If a bike can easily keep up with a traffic then I don't see the reason why they can't use the toll ways. So it will make it 150 cc and up and of course the bike needs to be mechanically sound.

What I have? One is 300 and one is 400 cc but it's irrelevant to this topic.

Sent from my mobile, whatever mobile it is.

"...of course the bike needs to be mechanically sound."

And the cars don't need to be? Imo all vehicles should be mechanically sound. But many (most?) are not. Just think about these idiots without lights or with red front lights and white rear lights...

In year 2005 they established the TÜVturk in Turkey, to check all vehicles regularly. 47% of all vehicles did not pass the first check. 37% of the vehicles failed in Istanbul and more than 50% outside big cities. So again its "rich city people against poor farmers". They needed security staff to protect the TÜVturk stations. I have seen reports from owners of old cars who threaten the staff to kill them because their vehicles did not pass the test.

You know how the checks in Thailand are. Do you really think they are able to change it? Many vehicles are not even registered, have no or dodgy greenbook and so on. And people are used to this. Its widely accepted. You cannot change this from one day to the other. It would need decades to establish some kind of real order. If someone would ever try to do so which will not be the case imo.

So if you open the tollways for bikes it would be for all, not only for the mechanically sound i guess. You cannot expect the tollway staff to do the work the police should do. And you cannot expect the police to do proper work in such chaos. There is no (easy) way out.

[wantan]

You really think this is the 'right time'?

"General, I've got a petition here from a bunch of foreigners and wealthy Thais who want to ride their expensive motorcycles on tollways and no longer want to be limited to the left lane- I'm sure you have plenty of time at the moment to work on new traffic laws that will only affect a tiny percentage of the population."

I did say the stress needs to be made on riders' safety and police corruption, or maybe on police corruption 1st and then riders' safety - nothing about falangs wanting to ride their expensive bikes... You guys obviously don't follow other news and have no ideas on what's going on around you...

Thai police using the left lane rule to make money. But police all over the world is doing similar. Fact is this rule exists. It seems you want to get rid of this rule/law mainly because the police is enforcing it. Not a good argumentation imo. You are always free to not (try to) pay tea money, pay the official fine and get a receipt.

Shurup, dont get me wrong. I live in Bangkok and sure would like to be able to ride on tollways and to ride in all lanes. But one has to be realistic. All Thailand can do at the moment is trying to keep it all running somehow, so investors are not looking for other countries. If they do it will get very bad.

[ll2]

If a bike can easily keep up with a traffic then I don't see the reason why they can't use the toll ways. So it will make it 150 cc and up and of course the bike needs to be mechanically sound.

What I have? One is 300 and one is 400 cc but it's irrelevant to this topic.

Sent from my mobile, whatever mobile it is.

"...of course the bike needs to be mechanically sound."

And the cars don't need to be? Imo all vehicles should be mechanically sound. But many (most?) are not. Just think about these idiots without lights or with red front lights and white rear lights...

In year 2005 they established the TÜVturk in Turkey, to check all vehicles regularly. 47% of all vehicles did not pass the first check. 37% of the vehicles failed in Istanbul and more than 50% outside big cities. So again its "rich city people against poor farmers". They needed security staff to protect the TÜVturk stations. I have seen reports from owners of old cars who threaten the staff to kill them because their vehicles did not pass the test.

You know how the checks in Thailand are. Do you really think they are able to change it? Many vehicles are not even registered, have no or dodgy greenbook and so on. And people are used to this. Its widely accepted. You cannot change this from one day to the other. It would need decades to establish some kind of real order. If someone would ever try to do so which will not be the case imo.

So if you open the tollways for bikes it would be for all, not only for the mechanically sound i guess. You cannot expect the tollway staff to do the work the police should do. And you cannot expect the police to do proper work in such chaos. There is no (easy) way out.

i know that story. they privatized the inspection centers to one of the best inspection body TUV with the highest German standards. TUV also inspects the vehicles in Germany as well.

But it has nothing to do with rich or poor. If you have enough capital to buy a car, you can maintain it too financially and logically.

hope they bring the same system to Thailand and privatize the vehicle inspection centers to a 'foreign' inspection body and give them sovereignty which makes it less vulnerable to extortion and pressure from higher grounds and that way they can keep the standards better.

shurup, i appreciate your efforts and fully support them.

But better, we wait for this petition until thins cool down lets say 3 to 6 months and then i am ready to sign it and use all my biker contacts around to sign that too. it is not a good time to change things or protest things or send a petition to Army.

I hear many complaints from Thai riders as well. Sure some can join that!

[ATF]

Most Tollways and Expressways are Joint Ventures with the Thai Government so it is up to the company concerned to allow or not allow bikes. It is not a Law. If anyone needs to be petitioned it would be the big bike companies to lobby the JV co's. into allowing bikes. A point could be made that they would make more money and you would need the Transport Minister on your side. That costs. What benefit to the big bike co's. is this? Very little and only 650cc plus I could see being allowed. Maybe only 1000cc plus. That would be an incentive to the bike co's to get riders to upgrade.

A possibility would be for big bikes to be allowed on weekends and public holidays to start with. Forget the left lane rule that's a big money maker.

[ktm jeff]

While i agree many thing need changing/improving RE traffic laws etc i think it may be something to look at in the future , when the army/new goverment has had a chance to get things straight , that effect the majority of people with more serious issues.

[brfsa2]

Most Tollways and Expressways are Joint Ventures with the Thai Government so it is up to the company concerned to allow or not allow bikes. It is not a Law. If anyone needs to be petitioned it would be the big bike companies to lobby the JV co's. into allowing bikes. A point could be made that they would make more money and you would need the Transport Minister on your side. That costs. What benefit to the big bike co's. is this? Very little and only 650cc plus I could see being allowed. Maybe only 1000cc plus. That would be an incentive to the bike co's to get riders to upgrade.

A possibility would be for big bikes to be allowed on weekends and public holidays to start with. Forget the left lane rule that's a big money maker.

In Thailand everything is so difficult to change once it's stablished, a change like this would require a lot of lobbying by manufacturers like ATF said.

I own a 471cc bike and I agree that at least 650cc middle weight bike could be a start on the highway. I learned that in Thailand small transitions in small steps tend to work out sometimes.

[ATF]

While i agree many thing need changing/improving RE traffic laws etc i think it may be something to look at in the future , when the army/new goverment has had a chance to get things straight , that effect the majority of people with more serious issues.

Nigel most of us are very happy with the traffic laws as they are. An on the spot fine now and then is most people's major gripe but it's peanuts. We would like to ride our big bikes on the Express/Tollways but the powers to be know that we would turn it into the IOM TT. Hope I never see the days of traffic law enforcement in Thailand except for getting rid of all the junk on the road.

[Shurup]

Would it make more sense then to direct the petition towards bike manufacturers?

Sent from my mobile, whatever mobile it is.

[ATF]

Would it make more sense then to direct the petition towards bike manufacturers?

Sent from my mobile, whatever mobile it is.

Absolutely, they were the ones who got the laws changed regarding importing bikes in parts and used bikes. They have the contacts and they stand to benefit if there was a 1000cc rule for tollways. Time they got their act together.

[wantan]

Hey, just do it. I am curious

[332]

Perhaps petition them to repatriate the 100s of young Lao female teenagers locked into short-time houses/brothels along Adunlayadet in Udon... all run by those in brown.