Opposition to Phuket dolphin show growing fast

[Bulldozer Dawn]

This project will be up and running in no time. And like Simon43 has identified it will be very popular with the Russians and Chinese.

The owner may well have some touts walking around the seating selling shots of bear stomach bile and dried tiger penises.

What hope have a few dolphins got in this country when a girl can be kept in a cage and periodically tortured for a decade without any subsequent prosecution of captors.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/618799-kidnapped-karen-girl-enslaved-by-cruel-thai-couple/

[simon43]

Simon, ignoring for a moment the fact that while dolphin numbers are dropping, in some species and in some places drastically, acquiring wild dolphins 99 out of 100 times means supporting the Taiji dolphin cull (it's basically the only place wild dolphins destined to a life entertaining us are sourced in the world) realize also that dolphins are highly intelligent....

Yes, I am sure everything you said in your post is 100% correct.

But do you think the touts for this business, Chinese, Korean, Japanese and Russian tourists give a damn??

Look how popular The Tiger Kingdom is, or similar venues. They all rely on paying high commissions to touts, taxi drivers, tour agents etc.

When you take on this Dolphinarium, you are also taking on all those Thai and foreign businesses who will be getting revenues from this new business, and many of these commission businesses are probably in need of some extra cash right now.

[stevenl]

This project will be up and running in no time. And like Simon43 has identified it will be very popular with the Russians and Chinese.

The owner may well have some touts walking around the seating selling shots of bear stomach bile and dried tiger penises.

What hope have a few dolphins got in this country when a girl can be kept in a cage and periodically tortured for a decade without any subsequent prosecution of captors.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/618799-kidnapped-karen-girl-enslaved-by-cruel-thai-couple/

All countries have these stories, so you're saying the modern world has no future. You may even have a point there.

[Shot]

So maybe it's time to stop treating animals in horrible ways? I stopped eating pork when I saw pigs suffering with their legs broken to force them into those cages they transport them in .

I stopped eating beef when I met a baby calf and saw how sentient and sweet he was.

Meat takes a lot of resources, lots of water and grain that could feed hungry people.

Maybe it's time to stop using animals when they suffer, just too many people in the world now to continue old habits.

Not disagreeing with you. But, a problem requires a solution. What is your solution?

[kevozman1]

I understand the anger over this Dolphin show/prison, depending on what way one looks at it, but the picture at the bottom is a disgusting use of sensationalism. Really lowers the credibility of the people running the campaign to stop the establishment from opening.

[JoeThePoster]

It can't be as bad as the ping pong shows.

[patricev]

...

I understand the anger over this Dolphin show/prison, depending on what way one looks at it, but the picture at the bottom is a disgusting use of sensationalism. Really lowers the credibility of the people running the campaign to stop the establishment from opening.

That was my point at the beginning of this thread. It would be taken more seriously if they had simply pointed out the deficiencies compared to similar attractions elsewhere in the world and suggested improvements.

And for the record, I do not know any of the people involved in this project. (as someone earlier implied that I did)

[EBlair48]

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sorry the quote boxes on multi quote responses never work for me and I have to insert boxes manually..

Not disagreeing with you. But, a problem requires a solution. What is your solution?

I stopped eating meat, I signed this petition and I make it known I find this kind of attraction unacceptable.

That picture clearly states three of the dolphins in this proposed attraction were captured in Taiji where the pic was taken, so it not sensationalistic, but a realistic depiction of what happened whan they were captured.

http://www.seashepherd.org/cove-guardians/

It is disgusting and how it can be defended I will never know. Japanese like to kill whales too, for no reason.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/01/20/world/asia/japan-dolphin-hunt/

Poll in Phuket news has it thumbs down

http://www.thephuketnews.com/vote-in-our-phuket-dolphinarium-poll-47500.php

I understand the anger over this Dolphin show/prison, depending on what way one looks at it, but the picture at the bottom is a disgusting use of sensationalism. Really lowers the credibility of the people running the campaign to stop the establishment from opening.

[KarenBravo]

You could spin it that three dolphins were "rescued" from the cull. That without dolphinariums, more dolphins would be dead. Makes the picture a bit pointless IMO.

[EBlair48]

You could spin it that three dolphins were "rescued" from the cull. That without dolphinariums, more dolphins would be dead. Makes the picture a bit pointless IMO.

You can spin atrocities any way you want. Either you think it acceptable or you don't.

[KarenBravo]

You could spin it that three dolphins were "rescued" from the cull. That without dolphinariums, more dolphins would be dead. Makes the picture a bit pointless IMO.

You can spin atrocities any way you want. Either you think it acceptable or you don't.

Not at all. I certainly don't approve what the Japanese do, but, three dolphins are alive from that cull. It could be used as a justification which, as I've already said, makes the picture pointless. In fact, including it could be counter-productive.

My post is about the use of the picture. Not my personal opinions on the rights and wrongs of this dolphinarium.

[EBlair48]

. The picture is from that cull where the dolphins were captured. various reports have it 500 were slaughtered that day, 20,000 a year..

Do you really wish to argue the three ( or more, even ) captured disqualify the picture? That capturing dolphins for tourist shows justifies the cull because they are alive?

Does this invalidate the picture? Or just its usage?

That the picture has no real value because .....?? I think most would disagree. I know I do. No dolphins from any places BUT ESPECIALLY this murderously bloody, infamous cull is the entire point of the protest.

It's like butcher decrying hidden cameras in slaughter houses. No, maybe the butcher's meat wasn't tortured, or from that slaughter house, but too many other cows are.... so eating meat might actually be a moral decision, and the butcher doesn't want you to have exposure to any negative information which might influence your decision.

(Then it's revealed the butchers meat was actually tortured, too- slaughtered alive in fact.)

[KarenBravo]

Sorry, I can't explain my post any clearer than I have already. If you want to start inventing stuff that I haven't stated any position on, you go right ahead.

I think other posters will understand what I've been trying to point out.

[NamKangMan]

You could spin it that three dolphins were "rescued" from the cull. That without dolphinariums, more dolphins would be dead. Makes the picture a bit pointless IMO.

You could also spin it that the dolphins in this show are cared for by Thai Buddhist monks, similar to the tigers at Tiger Temple.

A Thai monk wouldn't exploit an animal for a baht, right?

[Bulldozer Dawn]

I don't know why the OP is in such a huff.

The water in that plastic pool will have far less bacteria and faecal coliforms in it than the sea at any of the beaches around Phuket.

Moreover, the pool will be free from long tail boats, speed boats, jet skis and ghost nets.

[EBlair48]

Sorry, I can't explain my post any clearer than I have already. If you want to start inventing stuff that I haven't stated any position on, you go right ahead.

I think other posters will understand what I've been trying to point out.

I understand your point exactly, I simply disagree with it. I think the pic is effective, appropriate and will be a negligible cause of counter influence.

My last post is only acting as Devil's advocate in understanding how the picture would have a counter effect as you posted might happen.

[Chalongian]

You could spin it that three dolphins were "rescued" from the cull. That without dolphinariums, more dolphins would be dead. Makes the picture a bit pointless IMO.

That spin doesn't really work for me, Im sure slaughtering them would be more humane than keeping them in a poxy tank for the rest of their lives. The picture is illustrating how the cull actually happens in Taiji which is supposedly where some of the dolphins have originated from. Dolphins are super intelligent, social, family orientated creatures, If they're taken from the wild they'll be used to swimming miles and miles per day, swimming in the wake of ships and waves and diving to great depths. The Dolpinarium is basically a cell from which they'll never leave, It'll be a small space but they could be in there with other dolphins that they just don't get along with for the rest of their days. Watch the documentary Blackfish (Its about Orcas in captivity but you will get the idea). Personally I'd rather be slaughtered than spend the rest of my life in a cell.

[Bulldozer Dawn]

[KarenBravo]

You could spin it that three dolphins were "rescued" from the cull. That without dolphinariums, more dolphins would be dead. Makes the picture a bit pointless IMO.

That spin doesn't really work for me, Im sure slaughtering them would be more humane than keeping them in a poxy tank for the rest of their lives. The picture is illustrating how the cull actually happens in Taiji which is supposedly where some of the dolphins have originated from. Dolphins are super intelligent, social, family orientated creatures, If they're taken from the wild they'll be used to swimming miles and miles per day, swimming in the wake of ships and waves and diving to great depths. The Dolpinarium is basically a cell from which they'll never leave, It'll be a small space but they could be in there with other dolphins that they just don't get along with for the rest of their days. Watch the documentary Blackfish (Its about Orcas in captivity but you will get the idea). Personally I'd rather be slaughtered than spend the rest of my life in a cell.

The "spin" doesn't work for you, but, what about Chinese, Russians and Koreans?

Could be a convenient conscience salve.

Anyway, make of it what you will.

[Oziex1]

Ah yes Flipper he used to protect all from those evil sharks by ramming them with his snout. Nothing To do with anything really, just remembering.

[Bulldozer Dawn]

Ah yes Flipper he used to protect all from those evil sharks by ramming them with his snout. Nothing To do with anything really, just remembering.

Re runs of Flipper are one of the most popular TV shows in both Russia and PDRC.

[MK1]

It’s true that all dolphin aquariums have an unfortunate variable mortality rate due to the stress these mammals endure in captivity overtime. However, logically this can be reduced providing their given reasonable space to swim and live rather than what is proposed similar to that of a kiddies’ pool as some have described.

The proposed operators should be called to account by showing cause what experience they have in carrying-out such a venture to ensure both integrity and long term well-being of the mammals.

This is because the time and cost in training a dolphin i.e.USD$100,000 (per mammal) to performing stage is considered to be unavoidable very expensive and time consuming task. Plus there is always the risk they won’t perform or eat due to stress then unfortunately die. Just like the old saying you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink.

In terms of the long term viability of the project, investors should rethink and revise their aquarium design providing much more tank space to ensure a return on their investment.

Photo of Seaworld dolphins 2014, Gold Coast Qld

[NomadJoe]

It’s true that all dolphin aquariums have an unfortunate variable mortality rate due to the stress these mammals endure in captivity overtime. However, logically this can be reduced providing their given reasonable space to swim and live rather than what is proposed similar to that of a kiddies’ pool as some have described....

Dolphins often swim 100 miles a day. That is going to be a big tank you are planning.

[NomadJoe]

Phuket dolphin park link to Taiji massacre confirmed.

http://phuketgazette.net/phuket-news/Phuket-dolphin-park-link-Taiji-massacre-confirmed/34886#ad-image-0

[wilcopops]

Dolphins should not be kept in captivity - PERIOD

[robertthebruce]

Dolphins should not be kept in captivity - PERIOD

Totally agree with you,,but I will go one step further and say Nothing should be kept in Captivity....

Life is for living , whatever specie we are....

[wilcopops]

Dolphins should not be kept in captivity - PERIOD

Totally agree with you,,but I will go one step further and say Nothing should be kept in Captivity....

Life is for living , whatever specie we are....

in an ideal world this wouldn't be necessary. However there are circumstances - e.g. extreme endangerment - when it may be justifiable to keep creatures in captivity.

There are for instance some species currently in some very important "captive breeding programs"

these programs should not in any way be confused with "breeding in captivity" as carried out by such scams as the Tiger Temple.....who may actually contribute to the demise of tigers in Thailand.

[wilcopops]

It’s true that all dolphin aquariums have an unfortunate variable mortality rate due to the stress these mammals endure in captivity overtime. However, logically this can be reduced providing their given reasonable space to swim and live rather than what is proposed similar to that of a kiddies’ pool as some have described.

The proposed operators should be called to account by showing cause what experience they have in carrying-out such a venture to ensure both integrity and long term well-being of the mammals.

This is because the time and cost in training a dolphin i.e.USD$100,000 (per mammal) to performing stage is considered to be unavoidable very expensive and time consuming task. Plus there is always the risk they won’t perform or eat due to stress then unfortunately die. Just like the old saying you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink.

In terms of the long term viability of the project, investors should rethink and revise their aquarium design providing much more tank space to ensure a return on their investment.

Seaworld dolphins.jpg

Photo of Seaworld dolphins 2014, Gold Coast Qld

your claims to logic are a bit thin.

i believe now there are NO captive dolphins in UK, lets hope other countries are also on the same track.....

[robertthebruce]

Whats the latest on this project ?? is it going ahead ?? any word ???

[Valentine]

Whats the latest on this project ?? is it going ahead ?? any word ???

There is a fence around it now so you can't see in.