Camerata's Guide To The Permanent Residence Process

[scorecard]

13 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

In the newspaper that I cannot mention there is a article about visas and etc saying immigration is aware some people may have a problem entering the country prior to the one year out of the country or when your visa/re-entry permit expires. They plan on extending the one year.

Thank you ubonjoe for posting the above. I searched the concerned website several times but I can't find it. If other affected PR holders find the link would you please share it here. Or perhaps share a capture/snip of the article.

 

Thanks, much appreciated.

Edited April 6, 2020 by scorecard

[thedemon]

4 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Thank you ubonjoe for posting the above. I searched the concerned website several times but I can't find it. If other affected PR holders find the link would you please share it here. Or perhaps share a capture/snip of the article.

 

Thanks, much appreciated.

 

https://twitter.com/RichardBarrow/status/1246956336828395528

 

[scorecard]

4 minutes ago, thedemon said:

 

https://twitter.com/RichardBarrow/status/1246956336828395528

 

Thank you, very much appreciated, hopefully it will be approved, then those of us who are affected can relax. If someone sees mention of approval would you please share, thanks. 

[Arkady]

The article in the unmentionable newspaper is on its website and is easy to find.  It says that Immigration is proposing certain visa measures to the cabinet, one of which is to extend the one year limit on renewal of endorsements for permanent residents.  Immigration said that, if the measure is approved, PRs would have to return to Thailand as soon as possible after the travel restrictions finish.  If this is true it is great that someone actually goes in to bat for PRs who are all too often ignored, as in the recent measures that didn't allow PRs without WPs to return home.

 

As usual the devil will be in the details and the article doesn't say exactly how Immigration is proposing that the cabinet should deal with this in view of Section 51 of the 1979 Immigration Act (below), which has always been the reason that PR lapsed if not renewed in time, no ifs or buts.  If we read Section 51 carefully, it is clear that it merely allows PRs, whose PR has lapsed due to contravention of the one year rule, to reapply for PR under the normal conditions, i.e. all it means is that lapsed PRs are not barred from reapplying. This represented a reform of earlier Immigration Acts which required PRs (Chinese) to return their red books to Immigration and cancel their PR before they departed the Kingdom for more than one year in order to be eligible to reapply for PR, which was a relatively fast and inexpensive process, on their return to the Kingdom.  With lengthy travel times in the past and the need for extended trips back to China for education or to take care of business, this was not uncommon. In today's context that means still being qualified under Sections 12 and 44 which means still working and getting six month extensions again under Section 45 until the Immigration Commission has recommended reinstatement of PR and the minister has signed.  It also means paying the full fees again. 

 

Normally an Act of Parliament would be required to amend Section 51.  However, I am of the opinion that Prayut has the power to issue an emergency decree to waive its provisions temporarily in extraordinary circumstance.  That would allow Immigration to admit PRs to the Kingdom on their lapsed re-entry permits and to renew lapsed endorsements.

 

Fingers crossed.  Let's wait and see.

 

Section 51 : Any alien who has formerly resided in the Kingdom but has no document of departure for
return or has a document of departure for return, but has not returned to the Kingdom in reference to the
time prescribed in Section 48 and the alien wishes to take up residence in the Kingdom again , he must
submit an application in accordance with the procedure as prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations for
consideration and approval. When the Immigration Commission considers that the alien has reason and
proper excuse and he is not excluded from entry under Section 12 and Section 44 , the alien may be
permitted to enter to take up residence in the Kingdom under the concurrence of the Minister, but the
alien has to receive a new Residence Certificate. The provision of Section 45 Para.2 shall be applied
Mutatis Mutandis while waiting for permission.
The provisions in Section 12 (1) concerning visa , (2),(3) and (9) shall not apply with the case as
provided in the first paragraph of this section.
The applicant must pay fees as prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations.

 

[brianinbangkok]

I let my PR expire due to corona virus in March ,no longer working in TH there seems no way to get it back, 

this would be nothing less than a miracle that if the details allow I will get it reinstated.

[Arkady]

2 hours ago, brianinbangkok said:

I let my PR expire due to corona virus in March ,no longer working in TH there seems no way to get it back, 

this would be nothing less than a miracle that if the details allow I will get it reinstated.

 

Since it expired in March you would have a good chance of being covered, if they do come up with a waiver of Section 51.

[scorecard]

3 minutes ago, Arkady said:

 

Since it expired in March you would have a good chance of being covered, if they do come up with a waiver of Section 51.

 I guess quite a few PR holders eagerly hoping the waiver / 12 month extension is approved and soon and we can get both a Thai and English version of the order.  

 

To brianinbangkok good luck.

[Arkady]

Good news for PRs stuck outside the country and unable to return before their one year re-entry permits expire. An Interior Ministry decree on visa extensions in special circumstances due to the COVID pandemic dated 7 April and signed by Prayut and Interior Minister Gen Anuphong (attached) has been issued and Section 1 deals with the extension of re-entry permits.

 

Section 1. Aliens who have been given permission to stay permanently in the Kingdom under Section 48 of the 1979 Immigration Act and have evidence that they have obtained permits to re-enter the Kingdom within one year according to Section 50 of the Act may extend the period for return to the Kingdom to be longer than one year until after the situation has improved sufficiently to allow aliens to travel to the Kingdom and within the deadline to be specified by the Immigration Bureau. 

 

The order says that Immigration will set a deadline by which you have to return but it doesn't specify what latitude they will allow for the expiry date of re-entry permits, i.e. would they include people who would have found it difficult or unsafe to travel (probably all those with expiry dates in March), or only those with expiry dates on or after the date they banned entry completely. My guess is that they will not be too rigid. If anyone is in that situation they should probably call Immigration and explain their situation before the interpretation is set in concrete.

 

 

[rimmae2]

11 hours ago, Arkady said:

Good news for PRs stuck outside the country and unable to return before their one year re-entry permits expire. An Interior Ministry decree on visa extensions in special circumstances due to the COVID pandemic dated 7 April and signed by Prayut and Interior Minister Gen Anuphong (attached) has been issued and Section 1 deals with the extension of re-entry permits.

 

Section 1. Aliens who have been given permission to stay permanently in the Kingdom under Section 48 of the 1979 Immigration Act and have evidence that they have obtained permits to re-enter the Kingdom within one year according to Section 50 of the Act may extend the period for return to the Kingdom to be longer than one year until after the situation has improved sufficiently to allow aliens to travel to the Kingdom and within the deadline to be specified by the Immigration Bureau. 

 

The order says that Immigration will set a deadline by which you have to return but it doesn't specify what latitude they will allow for the expiry date of re-entry permits, i.e. would they include people who would have found it difficult or unsafe to travel (probably all those with expiry dates in March), or only those with expiry dates on or after the date they banned entry completely. My guess is that they will not be too rigid. If anyone is in that situation they should probably call Immigration and explain their situation before the interpretation is set in concrete.

 

 

So, as I understand still no permission for PRs who are stuck outside the country with a valid re-entry permit to return as far as I know. Anyone know or understand differently?

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, rimmae2 said:

So, as I understand still no permission for PRs who are stuck outside the country with a valid re-entry permit to return as far as I know. Anyone know or understand differently?

If you are outside the country when your re-entry permit expires your PR will not be lost for entering after that day. You should be stamped in like you normally are.

[scorecard]

12 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

If you are outside the country when your re-entry permit expires your PR will not be lost for entering after that day. You should be stamped in like you normally are.

Thank you Joe.

[Arkady]

1 hour ago, rimmae2 said:

So, as I understand still no permission for PRs who are stuck outside the country with a valid re-entry permit to return as far as I know. Anyone know or understand differently?

As far as I know the latest order banning anyone including Thais from entering, except diplomats and those bringing in cargoes, still stands.  Prior to that there was an order for a short while that only allowed Thais and those with work permits to enter but didn't mention PRs.  Now that Prayut has been made aware that PRs exist and was nice enough to make a special provision for them in the latest order about visas, it is to be hoped that they will also be remembered in future orders regarding the re-opening of travel to the Kingdom.

[rimmae2]

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

If you are outside the country when your re-entry permit expires your PR will not be lost for entering after that day. You should be stamped in like you normally are.

I don't have a problem regarding PR being lost (or at least I hope so........), as my re-entry permit is valid until February 2021. All I want to do is return home as soon as possible. Hopefully, as Arkady states in later post PRs will be remembered in future orders.

 

For now, I console myself with the fact that many Thais (including people that I know) are unable to leave the country that I am in.

[Arkady]

42 minutes ago, rimmae2 said:

I don't have a problem regarding PR being lost (or at least I hope so........), as my re-entry permit is valid until February 2021. All I want to do is return home as soon as possible. Hopefully, as Arkady states in later post PRs will be remembered in future orders.

 

For now, I console myself with the fact that many Thais (including people that I know) are unable to leave the country that I am in.

 

If Immigration is consulted, they will surely advise the government to include PRs in future orders that allow citizens and WP holders to return because they will be keen to limit the discretion they will now be forced to give to lapsed PR re-entry permits. I still think it is quite amazing that PRs were given consideration in the latest order. Credit where it's due to all involved, specially as they are waiving a clause that is set in concrete in the Immigration Act, whereas all the other measures are simply amending National Police Orders.

[scorecard]

7 minutes ago, Arkady said:

 

If Immigration is consulted, they will surely advise the government to include PRs in future orders that allow citizens and WP holders to return because they will be keen to limit the discretion they will now be forced to give to lapsed PR re-entry permits. I still think it is quite amazing that PRs were given consideration in the latest order. Credit where it's due to all involved, specially as they are waiving a clause that is set in concrete in the Immigration Act, whereas all the other measures are simply amending National Police Orders.

Hi Arkady, nice points, have you noticed, please, whether the police order has now been issued in the Royal Gazette and which amongst the several summaries / full translation in English is recognized as being the Royal gazette version? Thanks.

Edited April 9, 2020 by scorecard

[ubonjoe]

44 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Hi Arkady, nice points, have you noticed, please, whether the police order has now been issued in the Royal Gazette and which amongst the several summaries / full translation in English is recognized as being the Royal gazette version? Thanks.

It is a ministerial order not a police order. 

The royal gazette announcement in Thai is included this announcement.

. https://www.immigration.go.th/read?content_id=5e8dd512396bd30c67009c35

[scorecard]

55 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

It is a ministerial order not a police order. 

The royal gazette announcement in Thai is included this announcement.

. https://www.immigration.go.th/read?content_id=5e8dd512396bd30c67009c35

Thank you.

[Arkady]

3 hours ago, scorecard said:

Hi Arkady, nice points, have you noticed, please, whether the police order has now been issued in the Royal Gazette and which amongst the several summaries / full translation in English is recognized as being the Royal gazette version? Thanks.

There is no difference between the version published in the RG and the one above as far as I can see. There is a translation somewhere in the general TV thread about it today. I think it is provided by Immigration, not a particularly good one but it does follow the original quite faithfully. As Joe pointed out it is in the form of a ministerial decree, knot a police order.  A police order would be enough to amend the other visa conditions but not PR.  Actually it is debatable whether a ministerial decree can amend that section of the Immigration Act, rather than an act of parliament, because it is not specified in the Act that it can be, whereas it does specify that terms and conditions of other types of visa can be revised from time to time through ministerial regulations (in fact they are revised with police orders). However, I think the rationale would be that the ministerial decree was pursuant to his emergency decree which implies special powers to temporarily amend laws through a futher decree and I don't think it would be challenged.

[brianinbangkok]

I let my PR expire due to corona virus. The re-entry date was 3 March.

Will I get my PR back? As I see no date excluding PR lapsed before.

[brianinbangkok]

On 4/9/2020 at 12:38 PM, brianinbangkok said:

I let my PR expire due to corona virus. The re-entry date was 3 March.

Will I get my PR back? As I see no date excluding PR lapsed before.

Seems like all sections of the flow chart show Visa's from 26 March onwards are included in the special corona rules,  except PR chart does not show this. Likely only those that could not enter Thailand due to the border closure will be extended for a year. We have tried to call the immigration several times but nobody answers the phone.

I would like to ask again if anybody has the PR contact phone number to send to me in a pm, Then maybe I can get an answer or influence them to include the whole month.

Thanks.

[FarangRimPing]

Requirements to maintain Good Standing (Permanent Residence)

 

I've searched throughout this forum and there doesn't seem to be one particular place which lists everything we need to do on an ongoing basis, for example, renewing the Alien Registration Book every 5 years. Helpful informational items seem scattered throughout the now lengthy ongoing post. Maybe it would be helpful to include the maintenance requirements in a section of the first post?

 

Also, could someone confirm (or correct) my understanding: The Immigration Act applies to everyone, and The Alien Registration Act is the correct guide for Permanent Residents. (So for a PR in maintenance mode, The Alien Registration Act is the best source of info?)

 

Thanks, and sorry if these are stupid questions.

 

 

[scorecard]

On 4/11/2020 at 1:24 AM, brianinbangkok said:

Seems like all sections of the flow chart show Visa's from 26 March onwards are included in the special corona rules,  except PR chart does not show this. Likely only those that could not enter Thailand due to the border closure will be extended for a year. We have tried to call the immigration several times but nobody answers the phone.

I would like to ask again if anybody has the PR contact phone number to send to me in a pm, Then maybe I can get an answer or influence them to include the whole month.

Thanks.

Is this what your're looking for:

 

https://www.immigration.go.th/read?content_id=5e8dd512396bd30c67009c35

 

 

 

[Arkady]

1 hour ago, FarangRimPing said:

Requirements to maintain Good Standing (Permanent Residence)

 

I've searched throughout this forum and there doesn't seem to be one particular place which lists everything we need to do on an ongoing basis, for example, renewing the Alien Registration Book every 5 years. Helpful informational items seem scattered throughout the now lengthy ongoing post. Maybe it would be helpful to include the maintenance requirements in a section of the first post?

 

Also, could someone confirm (or correct) my understanding: The Immigration Act applies to everyone, and The Alien Registration Act is the correct guide for Permanent Residents. (So for a PR in maintenance mode, The Alien Registration Act is the best source of info?)

 

Thanks, and sorry if these are stupid questions.

 

 

 

I believe you meant the Civil Registration Act which is to do with registering people in tabien baans and issuing ID cards. There is no Alien Registration Act.  The Immigration Act is pertinent to the application process for PRs.

[FarangRimPing]

3 hours ago, Arkady said:

 

I believe you meant the Civil Registration Act which is to do with registering people in tabien baans and issuing ID cards. There is no Alien Registration Act.  The Immigration Act is pertinent to the application process for PRs.

No, I meant the "Alien Registration Act B.E. 2493 (1950)" - found here on ThaiVisa, in the "Laws, regulations, Police Orders, etc:" sticky.

 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1oHQw1I81EiLOOoJ5huIyu0NgMaEx-Muy

 

I understood the process of obtaining PR was part of the immigration act, but it seems the Alien Registration Act concerns the 'maintenance' of PR. 

 

Is there any other source which shows the requirements for getting the Alien Registration book maintained?

Edited April 20, 2020 by FarangRimPing

[GabbaGabbaHey]

25 minutes ago, FarangRimPing said:

Is there any other source which shows the requirements for getting the Alien Registration book maintained?

The alien book (red book) contains an explanation section towards the end that says "5. When the certificate is expired [...] you must report to the local police within 7 days".

Following this the police will extend you by 5 years (you actually get 5+1 years when they issue the book for the first time). That's it.

 

(I was somehow able to extend by 5 years although I still had 8 or 9 months validity left last time, they asked why but when I said I was planning to travel abroad they said fine. The 5 years were added from the expiration date of the current valid one)

Edited April 20, 2020 by GabbaGabbaHey

[FarangRimPing]

1 hour ago, GabbaGabbaHey said:

The alien book (red book) contains an explanation section towards the end that says "5. When the certificate is expired [...] you must report to the local police within 7 days".

Following this the police will extend you by 5 years (you actually get 5+1 years when they issue the book for the first time). That's it.

 

(I was somehow able to extend by 5 years although I still had 8 or 9 months validity left last time, they asked why but when I said I was planning to travel abroad they said fine. The 5 years were added from the expiration date of the current valid one)

Thank you. I now reviewed that section in the red book. I am always wary of handling the alien registration book because it's so delicate.

[brianinbangkok]

9 hours ago, scorecard said:

Is this what your're looking for:

 

https://www.immigration.go.th/read?content_id=5e8dd512396bd30c67009c35

 

 

 

Thank You,

But yes I already had this information.

It does not say if a PR that expired early in March are included or only those that expired after the border closure on 26March.

Flights in Europe had already been canceled way before Thailand closed its borders.

[Arkady]

5 hours ago, FarangRimPing said:

No, I meant the "Alien Registration Act B.E. 2493 (1950)" - found here on ThaiVisa, in the "Laws, regulations, Police Orders, etc:" sticky.

 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1oHQw1I81EiLOOoJ5huIyu0NgMaEx-Muy

 

I understood the process of obtaining PR was part of the immigration act, but it seems the Alien Registration Act concerns the 'maintenance' of PR. 

 

Is there any other source which shows the requirements for getting the Alien Registration book maintained?

Apologies.  You are right.  I stand corrected. I don't know of any other source.

[brianinbangkok]

On 4/10/2020 at 5:24 PM, brianinbangkok said:

Seems like all sections of the flow chart show Visa's from 26 March onwards are included in the special corona rules,  except PR chart does not show this. Likely only those that could not enter Thailand due to the border closure will be extended for a year. We have tried to call the immigration several times but nobody answers the phone.

I would like to ask again if anybody has the PR contact phone number to send to me in a pm, Then maybe I can get an answer or influence them to include the whole month.

Thanks.

okay I managed to contact PR section and spoke to the officer in charge of the PR section who actually took the time to investigate the options and called me back.

 

Only those PRs that expired after Thailand closed the borders on 26 March 2020 are considered under the special corona rules and those PR reentry permits are automaticly extended.

Enter as usual.

 

So for me , my PR is gone.

 

If I fly back as soon as possible (within a month) after they open the borders again I can re-apply without the need for 3 years of WP/Tax returns and if approved pay the ~ 97k fee as my wife is Thai. otherwise its the full 200k.

 

If I do not return and apply few years from now.

Its basicly restart the whole process , show 3 years WP/Tax returns pay the full 97k fee.

No point IMHO I rather apply for a Thai passport at 5K.

 

So as I no longer live in Thailand its not the end of the world for me, just makes it more difficult to return if I wanted to retire in TH.

So hope the above information helps others in the future.

 

 

Edited April 24, 2020 by brianinbangkok

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, brianinbangkok said:

okay I managed to contact PR section and spoke to the officer in charge of the PR section who actually took the time to investigate the options and called me back.

 

Only those PRs that expired after Thailand closed the borders on 26 March 2020 are considered under the special corona rules and those PR reentry permits are automaticly extended.

Enter as usual.

 

So for me , my PR is gone.

 

If I fly back as soon as possible (within a month) after they open the borders again I can re-apply without the need for 3 years of WP/Tax returns and if approved pay the ~ 97k fee as my wife is Thai. otherwise its the full 200k.

 

If I do not return and apply few years from now.

Its basicly restart the whole process , show 3 years WP/Tax returns pay the full 97k fee.

No point IMHO I rather apply for a Thai passport at 5K.

 

So as I no longer live in Thailand its not the end of the world for me, just makes it more difficult to return if I wanted to retire in TH.

So hope the above information helps others in the future.

 

 

 Thanks for sharing.