Camerata's Guide To The Permanent Residence Process

[MRtommyR]

On 2/28/2023 at 4:44 PM, JS82 said:

Hello Sir, 

 

How did it go afterwards? 

I am now in the stage of entering my name into friend's tabien baan. The whole PR process is like jumping through hoops. 

At the district office, the handling guy told that he needed to confirm with immigration and police, then he will ask me back for an interview later(donot know when...).  And I had to leave with uncertainty. I hope it will not be too long for them to come back to me.  

Sorry I did not see your question until now. It took around 4 months to get registered. Eventually I had to hand deliver the district office's letter to the immigration department. There were an awful lot of documents they had to prepare to put me in the blue book but eventually it was done. Takes a lot of persistence 

[scorecard]

On 4/20/2023 at 10:24 AM, jayboy said:

I may have not got this quite right but I seem to remember being advised by a senior Thai lawyer that it was better to apply for PR on the business rather than family basis since the criteria were exactly the same, and there was no need to involve the wife. So that is what I did.

That's interesting, maybe their 'criteria' has changed but 27 years ago I asked the Immigration senior who conducted my interview if being married to a Thai lady made getting PR more easy?

 

His response 'Not really because we assess you / are you the type of foreigner we want to have holding this status, and we don't assess your wife at all, so not really relevant.

 

That's 27 years ago, maybe that's changed.  

Edited July 27, 2023 by scorecard

[jayboy]

2 hours ago, scorecard said:

That's interesting, maybe their 'criteria' has changed but 27 years ago I asked the Immigration senior who conducted my interview if being married to a Thai lady made getting PR more easy?

 

His response 'Not really because we assess you / are you the type of foreigner we want to have holding this status, and we don't assess your wife at all, so not really relevant.

 

That's 27 years ago, maybe that's changed.  

I think we are effectively saying (and were advised) the same thing.I chose the option which seemed simplest.

[DrJoy]

Can anyone guide me to the link or Thai Gov order where it says that Thai PR holders need a Work Permit to work ?

 

No guesses or jokes.

 

Plz post if you have real link or info with evidence.

[scorecard]

19 minutes ago, DrJoy said:

Can anyone guide me to the link or Thai Gov order where it says that Thai PR holders need a Work Permit to work ?

 

No guesses or jokes.

 

Plz post if you have real link or info with evidence.

I can't share a specific police order or similar. 

 

I can share, when I had my PR application interview with a senior Immigration officer (he spoke advanced English)(27 years ago) I asked this question specifically. He had no no hesitation to answer "YES".

 

Since I got PR I have applied for new WPs and renewal WPs at least 15+ times.  On every occasion the Labour - WP officer looked at my Certificate of Residence book and searched for something and found it. Certificate of Residence book passed back to me, no comment.

 

After I retired from work I was offered a lecturing position at a Thai universty School of Business. The dean (spoke excellent English) said "We will get a WP for you".

 

I responded "I have PR". She had never heard of PR, I showed her my PR book and explained what it was. She asked the HR lady to come in, also spoke good English and said "Mr xxx has PR and she gave the book to the HR lady (with my permission) Can you please call the main HR office and check if he needs a WP.

 

The HR lady took my PR book to the main HR office and asked. They didn't know so they called the labour ministry. And the answer was "YES PR holders must have a WP".

Edited August 4, 2023 by scorecard

[onthemoon]

20 minutes ago, DrJoy said:

Can anyone guide me to the link or Thai Gov order where it says that Thai PR holders need a Work Permit to work ?

 

No guesses or jokes.

 

Plz post if you have real link or info with evidence.

Labour Law says that foreigners intending to work in Thailand need a work permit. There is no government order or anything stating that PR holders are exempted.

 

I had a discussion with someone from the Ministry of Industry who held an event touting the new Thailand Long Stay Visa, holders of which don't need a work permit (it explicitly says so in the regulation). I asked him why PR holders do need one, he couldn't answer that.

 

So, you won't find any regulation that says PR holders must get a WP. You just find that that there is no regulation that says that PR holders do not need one.

 

HTH

[Arkady]

1 hour ago, onthemoon said:

Labour Law says that foreigners intending to work in Thailand need a work permit. There is no government order or anything stating that PR holders are exempted.

 

I had a discussion with someone from the Ministry of Industry who held an event touting the new Thailand Long Stay Visa, holders of which don't need a work permit (it explicitly says so in the regulation). I asked him why PR holders do need one, he couldn't answer that.

 

So, you won't find any regulation that says PR holders must get a WP. You just find that that there is no regulation that says that PR holders do not need one.

 

HTH

You are of course right but the first Working of Aliens law of the early 1970s, which introduced the concept of WPs for the first time, did in fact give a special exemption to PRs.  This was unfortunately only a transitional provision but it allowed PRs who were in a job when the law was introduced to apply for a lifetime WP that remained valid as long they worked in the same profession. They were free to change jobs within their profession and take their WP with them.  So the original law drafters did expressly consider the position of PRs and it was decided that they needed WPs, even though those lucky enough to qualify for the transitional provisions got lifetime versions.  It was not just that PRs were overlooked. The reason for requiring WPs for PRs was undoubtedly because in the early 1970s it was still relatively easy to obtain PR. It was the only option for a visa of more than 3 months, so expats who expected to be in Thailand for more than a couple of months would automatically apply for PR and invariably be approved.  Originally PR, when it started in 1927, was given to Chinese arriving off the boats, as long as they could prove they had a profession through which they could support themselves. Since there was so many of the working foreigners were already PRs in the early 1970s were already PRs, it would have been thought pointless to introduce WPs and exempt all PRs permanently.

 

The reason why the long stay visa can be offered with exemption from WPs is that the BOI is in charge of LTR visas and sees them as a way to attract foreign investors and foreigners with high skill levels. So they were prepared to fight for the WP exemption. PR on the other hand is the responsibility of the troglodyte police of the Immigration Bureau who believe that all foreigners are criminals until irrefutably proven otherwise, preferably with evidence presented in brown envelopes.  The only thing I recall Immigration fighting for in respect of PRs is when they went into battle with the Labour Ministry to insist that PRs applying for WPs should have 4 Thai employees the same as everyone else.  Immigration was able to control that for most others by itself by demanding to see evidence of 4 Thai employees to renew NON-B visas for work but they resented the fact that PRs bypassed them and could go straight to the Labour Ministry which didn't require them to have any Thai employees (I think the same may have been true for people working on marriage extensions).  Immigration won the fight and the Labour Ministry started to demand to see evidence of the Thai employees to issue WPs for PRs. I used to have a WP with zero Thai employees and when I heard the rules had changed, I went along to the Labour Ministry to see if it was really true.  A middle ranking officer was called out to explain to me that it was, indeed, true and he admitted it had been done at the insistence of Immigration.  So who is there to stick up for PR rights in this and demand parity with long stay visa holders?  However, it is really unfortunate that the reasons for not doing this are embedded in the conditions that prevailed in the early 1970s and that the people responsible for policy don't even have a clue  this is the case.

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, Arkady said:

You are of course right but the first Working of Aliens law of the early 1970s, which introduced the concept of WPs for the first time, did in fact give a special exemption to PRs.  This was unfortunately only a transitional provision but it allowed PRs who were in a job when the law was introduced to apply for a lifetime WP that remained valid as long they worked in the same profession. They were free to change jobs within their profession and take their WP with them.  So the original law drafters did expressly consider the position of PRs and it was decided that they needed WPs, even though those lucky enough to qualify for the transitional provisions got lifetime versions.  It was not just that PRs were overlooked. The reason for requiring WPs for PRs was undoubtedly because in the early 1970s it was still relatively easy to obtain PR. It was the only option for a visa of more than 3 months, so expats who expected to be in Thailand for more than a couple of months would automatically apply for PR and invariably be approved.  Originally PR, when it started in 1927, was given to Chinese arriving off the boats, as long as they could prove they had a profession through which they could support themselves. Since there was so many of the working foreigners were already PRs in the early 1970s were already PRs, it would have been thought pointless to introduce WPs and exempt all PRs permanently.

 

The reason why the long stay visa can be offered with exemption from WPs is that the BOI is in charge of LTR visas and sees them as a way to attract foreign investors and foreigners with high skill levels. So they were prepared to fight for the WP exemption. PR on the other hand is the responsibility of the troglodyte police of the Immigration Bureau who believe that all foreigners are criminals until irrefutably proven otherwise, preferably with evidence presented in brown envelopes.  The only thing I recall Immigration fighting for in respect of PRs is when they went into battle with the Labour Ministry to insist that PRs applying for WPs should have 4 Thai employees the same as everyone else.  Immigration was able to control that for most others by itself by demanding to see evidence of 4 Thai employees to renew NON-B visas for work but they resented the fact that PRs bypassed them and could go straight to the Labour Ministry which didn't require them to have any Thai employees (I think the same may have been true for people working on marriage extensions).  Immigration won the fight and the Labour Ministry started to demand to see evidence of the Thai employees to issue WPs for PRs. I used to have a WP with zero Thai employees and when I heard the rules had changed, I went along to the Labour Ministry to see if it was really true.  A middle ranking officer was called out to explain to me that it was, indeed, true and he admitted it had been done at the insistence of Immigration.  So who is there to stick up for PR rights in this and demand parity with long stay visa holders?  However, it is really unfortunate that the reasons for not doing this are embedded in the conditions that prevailed in the early 1970s and that the people responsible for policy don't even have a clue  this is the case.

Further, there ws a time, decades ago when local

snr. police chiefs could give farang they knew were capable/genuine etc., a personal letter saying that 'this' farang does not need a WP. 

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

2 hours ago, Arkady said:

So who is there to stick up for PR rights in this and demand parity with long stay visa holders?  

The foreign chambers of commerce have raised the issue of the need for work permits for PR holders with senior Thai government officials for many years now. They have also complained about the one-year validity of non-quota immigrant visas. There is no will on the Thai side to do anything about these issues and probably never will be.

[onthemoon]

14 hours ago, Arkady said:

You are of course right but the first Working of Aliens law of the early 1970s, which introduced the concept of WPs for the first time, did in fact give a special exemption to PRs.  This was unfortunately only a transitional provision but it allowed PRs who were in a job when the law was introduced to apply for a lifetime WP that remained valid as long they worked in the same profession. They were free to change jobs within their profession and take their WP with them.  So the original law drafters did expressly consider the position of PRs and it was decided that they needed WPs, even though those lucky enough to qualify for the transitional provisions got lifetime versions.  It was not just that PRs were overlooked. The reason for requiring WPs for PRs was undoubtedly because in the early 1970s it was still relatively easy to obtain PR. It was the only option for a visa of more than 3 months, so expats who expected to be in Thailand for more than a couple of months would automatically apply for PR and invariably be approved.  Originally PR, when it started in 1927, was given to Chinese arriving off the boats, as long as they could prove they had a profession through which they could support themselves. Since there was so many of the working foreigners were already PRs in the early 1970s were already PRs, it would have been thought pointless to introduce WPs and exempt all PRs permanently.

Thank you for the history lesson, much appreciated.

 

14 hours ago, Arkady said:

 

The reason why the long stay visa can be offered with exemption from WPs is that the BOI is in charge of LTR visas and sees them as a way to attract foreign investors and foreigners with high skill levels. So they were prepared to fight for the WP exemption. PR on the other hand is the responsibility of the troglodyte police of the Immigration Bureau who believe that all foreigners are criminals until irrefutably proven otherwise, preferably with evidence presented in brown envelopes.  The only thing I recall Immigration fighting for in respect of PRs is when they went into battle with the Labour Ministry to insist that PRs applying for WPs should have 4 Thai employees the same as everyone else.  Immigration was able to control that for most others by itself by demanding to see evidence of 4 Thai employees to renew NON-B visas for work but they resented the fact that PRs bypassed them and could go straight to the Labour Ministry which didn't require them to have any Thai employees (I think the same may have been true for people working on marriage extensions).  Immigration won the fight and the Labour Ministry started to demand to see evidence of the Thai employees to issue WPs for PRs. I used to have a WP with zero Thai employees and when I heard the rules had changed, I went along to the Labour Ministry to see if it was really true.  A middle ranking officer was called out to explain to me that it was, indeed, true and he admitted it had been done at the insistence of Immigration.  So who is there to stick up for PR rights in this and demand parity with long stay visa holders?  However, it is really unfortunate that the reasons for not doing this are embedded in the conditions that prevailed in the early 1970s and that the people responsible for policy don't even have a clue  this is the case.

Yes, I remember that it was changed at some time, and PR holders did not need 4 employees at the time. I have a lot more employees in my company, so that doesn't really affect me. My point is that PR holders have been vetted a lot more than LTR visa applicants, so the fairness here is questioned. You are right, the LTR visa's purpose is to attract more foreign investors and we - the PR holders - are already here, so there is no political incentive to change anything to make it easier for us.

[onthemoon]

11 hours ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

The foreign chambers of commerce have raised the issue of the need for work permits for PR holders with senior Thai government officials for many years now. They have also complained about the one-year validity of non-quota immigrant visas. There is no will on the Thai side to do anything about these issues and probably never will be.

True, I am active in some foreign chambers, and we are getting nowhere. Each ministry we talk to say that this is an issue were many ministries need to agree, e.g. Min of Interior, Min of Labour, Min of Finance, to waive the requirement. I am not sure about the laws, but if a change a law is required, this means that parliament have to approve it too, which is a very lengthy process. There is no political will on the Thai government side to go through all this convincing work, because they don't see what the advantage for Thailand would be. They'd rather spend their time working on issues closer to their hearts or constituents - they can't lose our votes, and even if they lose the votes of our loved ones, we are just a very small minority. 

[TomH]

Hi, I am looking for an agency to handle my application for my permanent residency.

I've been here for over 10 years and I meet all the requirements listed on the immigration website. 
 

Can anyone please recommend a reputable agency that they know of that I can use? 

We're looking for an agency that is experienced and has handled several successful applications in the past.

 

Many thanks.

[onthemoon]

17 hours ago, TomH said:

Hi, I am looking for an agency to handle my application for my permanent residency.

I've been here for over 10 years and I meet all the requirements listed on the immigration website. 
 

Can anyone please recommend a reputable agency that they know of that I can use? 

We're looking for an agency that is experienced and has handled several successful applications in the past.

 

Many thanks.

This is what the agency can do: Get the list of documents required (it's in English), get all the documents together (they will need to get all from you and your company), hand it in.  In other words, an agency can do exactly nothing, except tell you what documents you have to get (it's in the list) and charge THB 100,000. I can do that for you, if you want. ???? 

[Misty]

35 minutes ago, onthemoon said:

This is what the agency can do: Get the list of documents required (it's in English), get all the documents together (they will need to get all from you and your company), hand it in.  In other words, an agency can do exactly nothing, except tell you what documents you have to get (it's in the list) and charge THB 100,000. I can do that for you, if you want. ???? 

Ah, but can you also facilitate the "VIP service fees"?  These have been more or less required (and therefore use of an agent also required) in recent years.

[Michael Hare]

21 hours ago, TomH said:

Hi, I am looking for an agency to handle my application for my permanent residency.

I've been here for over 10 years and I meet all the requirements listed on the immigration website. 
 

Can anyone please recommend a reputable agency that they know of that I can use? 

We're looking for an agency that is experienced and has handled several successful applications in the past.

 

Many thanks.

Do everything yourself. Straight forward. 

[kiwiaussie]

22 hours ago, TomH said:

Hi, I am looking for an agency to handle my application for my permanent residency.

I've been here for over 10 years and I meet all the requirements listed on the immigration website. 
 

Can anyone please recommend a reputable agency that they know of that I can use? 

We're looking for an agency that is experienced and has handled several successful applications in the past.

 

Many thanks.

A good article on this very topic

https://www.thaicitizenship.com/thai-citizenship-lawyer-recommendations/

[smutcakes]

On 8/6/2023 at 3:32 PM, TomH said:

Hi, I am looking for an agency to handle my application for my permanent residency.

I've been here for over 10 years and I meet all the requirements listed on the immigration website. 
 

Can anyone please recommend a reputable agency that they know of that I can use? 

We're looking for an agency that is experienced and has handled several successful applications in the past.

 

Many thanks.

Contrary to what others say, i would highly recommend using an agent of some type, personally i used a large well known accounting consultancy.

 

And i can only speak for myself, but there is not a chance in hell i would do the process myself.. it was a complete and utter ball ache from start to finish even for the consultant... The paperwork is just endless, i cannot imagine anyone doing it themselves unless they literally have endless time on their hands, endless patience and an endlessly patient wife/partner to help them.

 

I have my PR and i have applied for the citizenship and got my queue number. I used the same consultant to do it. The Consultant said they are never going to bother doing it again as its just to much time and hassle for relatively small fee.

 

Perhaps as i am doing the route with work permit and i am not officially married so am technically single male there was more document than those who do the marriage route.

[cocoonclub]

What’s the process and participants required when changing condos? 
 

After I received the PR, I had to do the following: 

- Go to police station for red book 

- go to district office for house registration (first visit) 

- wait for immigration to send a letter to district office 

- go to district office again together with landlord and a witness to provide information (second visit) 

- go to district office again together with landlord and witness to sign documents and receive the pink ID card and house registration (third visit) 

 

As I’ll be moving to a new condo, I was wondering:

 

1. Will all of the above be required again? Or will the process be simpler? (At least the letter from immigration hopefully should be not necessary anymore I hope) 

 

2. Does the old landlord have to go there too?

 

3. Does the new landlord have to go there? 
 

4. Do I need a witness again?

 

5. Can any party be represented through a PoA? 

[TomH]

18 hours ago, smutcakes said:

Contrary to what others say, i would highly recommend using an agent of some type, personally i used a large well known accounting consultancy.

 

And i can only speak for myself, but there is not a chance in hell i would do the process myself.. it was a complete and utter ball ache from start to finish even for the consultant... The paperwork is just endless, i cannot imagine anyone doing it themselves unless they literally have endless time on their hands, endless patience and an endlessly patient wife/partner to help them.

 

I have my PR and i have applied for the citizenship and got my queue number. I used the same consultant to do it. The Consultant said they are never going to bother doing it again as its just to much time and hassle for relatively small fee.

 

Perhaps as i am doing the route with work permit and i am not officially married so am technically single male there was more document than those who do the marriage route.

I do feel the same way. I hope someone here can recommend an agent that they successfully used and is willing to do it again as I'm also not married ????. 

[onthemoon]

On 8/7/2023 at 9:16 AM, Misty said:

Ah, but can you also facilitate the "VIP service fees"?  These have been more or less required (and therefore use of an agent also required) in recent years.

No, never had to pay any, and I recommend not to pay them. They go straight to the agent's coffers.

[onthemoon]

22 hours ago, smutcakes said:

Contrary to what others say, i would highly recommend using an agent of some type, personally i used a large well known accounting consultancy.

 

And i can only speak for myself, but there is not a chance in hell i would do the process myself.. it was a complete and utter ball ache from start to finish even for the consultant... The paperwork is just endless, i cannot imagine anyone doing it themselves unless they literally have endless time on their hands, endless patience and an endlessly patient wife/partner to help them.

 

I have my PR and i have applied for the citizenship and got my queue number. I used the same consultant to do it. The Consultant said they are never going to bother doing it again as its just to much time and hassle for relatively small fee.

 

Perhaps as i am doing the route with work permit and i am not officially married so am technically single male there was more document than those who do the marriage route.

How exactly did the consultant reduce the paperwork for you? Did they request certain documents from your home country for you, or did they contact the accounting department in your company for the documents directly? The latter actually can be done by your secretary if you don't want to do that by yourself. Did they make the photocopies of old passports for you? I really don't get how they could help in any way.

 

Of course they would say it's a lot of headache, otherwise you wouldn't need them. Oh, you don't.

[Michael Hare]

1 hour ago, onthemoon said:

How exactly did the consultant reduce the paperwork for you? Did they request certain documents from your home country for you, or did they contact the accounting department in your company for the documents directly? The latter actually can be done by your secretary if you don't want to do that by yourself. Did they make the photocopies of old passports for you? I really don't get how they could help in any way.

 

Of course they would say it's a lot of headache, otherwise you wouldn't need them. Oh, you don't.

Completely agree. Straight forward process but it took time, especially getting all the documents that were in English translated into Thai. I contaced my embassy in Bangkok and they got the police report from my home country. Likewise, I popped along to my local police station in Thailand and got their report. I did make mistakes with copies of my tax reports as I didn't know that copies of every page had to be signed. Even then, some documents had to be done again but that was no problem. And I flew down to Bangkok four times for interviews etc. On the fourth visit I got my PR. 

[Misty]

3 hours ago, onthemoon said:

No, never had to pay any, and I recommend not to pay them. They go straight to the agent's coffers.

That's great, but when did you apply?  I would completely agree with you about not paying, however, in the year I prepared my application it was required.  I hear that is still the case.

 

I did not use an agent. The PR desk at Immigration spent 3 hours grilling about the application in Thai, but couldn't find any reason I wasn't qualified. However,  they would not accept my application since I had no agent (although they did try to shake down my Thai accountant, who came with me but who is not an agent.)

 

I'm actually quite happy with the LTR visa and its accompanying digital work permit, so perhaps it was all for the best.

[onthemoon]

14 hours ago, Misty said:

That's great, but when did you apply?  I would completely agree with you about not paying, however, in the year I prepared my application it was required.  I hear that is still the case.

 

I did not use an agent. The PR desk at Immigration spent 3 hours grilling about the application in Thai, but couldn't find any reason I wasn't qualified. However,  they would not accept my application since I had no agent (although they did try to shake down my Thai accountant, who came with me but who is not an agent.)

 

I'm actually quite happy with the LTR visa and its accompanying digital work permit, so perhaps it was all for the best.

It was more than 10 years ago admittedly. However, I don't pay bribes as a matter of principle. Had they not accepted my application even though it was complete and asked for funds without receipt, I would have gone straight to their superior, and up and up. I've done that with other government offices and never paid anything. You have to talk in a polite and friendly tone, use the right vocabulary etc. 

 

It helps if you do negotiations for a living, so the accountant might not have been the right person to discuss with them on your behalf, I don't know that. Sorry to hear that you gave up, but maybe you want to reconsider. They can change the regulations for the LTR at any time, and on the other hand, the automatic work permit is of course very nice.

[Misty]

1 hour ago, onthemoon said:

It was more than 10 years ago admittedly. However, I don't pay bribes as a matter of principle. Had they not accepted my application even though it was complete and asked for funds without receipt, I would have gone straight to their superior, and up and up. I've done that with other government offices and never paid anything. You have to talk in a polite and friendly tone, use the right vocabulary etc. 

 

It helps if you do negotiations for a living, so the accountant might not have been the right person to discuss with them on your behalf, I don't know that. Sorry to hear that you gave up, but maybe you want to reconsider. They can change the regulations for the LTR at any time, and on the other hand, the automatic work permit is of course very nice.

I'm afraid things may have changed a lot in the 10+ years since you applied.

 

In the recent year that I applied, as part of my preparation I spoke to a number of people, to include would be applicants.  I also posted a number of times on this thread to get answers to technical questions. Folks on this thread were very responsive, but unfortunately their information turned out to be out of date in many cases.  I wish someone had mentioned about the required agent & VIP service fees and I wouldn't have bothered preparing my application.

 

Of the would-be applicants I talked to, unfortunately all had the same experience that I did. If you were willing to pay an agent "VIP service fees" (min six digit), then you could apply.  The PR desk staff even gave one person the business card of an agent who could "help."  If you weren't willing to pay (such as me), you might have the "perfect application" and it wouldn't matter. You would get no where.

 

When I went to the PR desk to submit my application, my accountant wasn't actually there to negotiate on my behalf.  Of course I was very respectful, but I was well-qualified and had never heard I would have to "negotiate" in any way. My accountant was only there in case there were some specific questions in Thai on the accounts that I didn't have the vocabulary to answer.  In the end, she wasn't asked anything other than cornered in a back room to find out if she was actually an agent.

 

So now I have a 10 year LTR visa from the NY consulate and a 5 year digital work permit, renewable for another 5 years.  It's actually a much better fit for my situation. The BoI was truly a pleasure to work with.  After the PR fiasco, it was really heartening to have the senior staff there say that I was exactly who the program was looking for.  Such a different experience than applying for PR.

 

 

[Dogmatix]

Things fluctuate in the PR process as different section heads come and go at CW and DOPA, which ultimately controls the process, and they are rotated frequently, even though the senior sergeant majors at the CW desks stay for ever, as none of them want to leave such a cushy job.  You are unlikely to ever meet a commissioned officer on the PR desks at CW, although some must get promoted to Sub-Lt or Lt under the scheme that allows NCOs to apply for commissioned rank after 20 years on the force.  However, there are officers behind the scenes you never see, probably because they are busy working on their handicaps or at second jobs, and those are the ones that make decisions and sign stuff.  The point of this is that the front desk officers don't really have much authority and certainly don't have the discretion to refuse an application out of hand that has nothing wrong with it. It would be risky for them to do this, in case someone complained or sued them in the Administrative Court. Something like that would probably have to have a more senior officer complicit in it to cover up for them, if something went wrong.  You might get rogue officers trying to squeeze big income of it from time to time but there have been very few reports of this type. 

 

There was a complaint of this type in the citizenship process at Special Branch a few years back and it resulted in an extremely stressful investigation of the accused officer that lasted several weeks and probably took some years off her life. In the end there was no substantive evidence as it just turned out to be from a farang's office messenger who was sent to pick up documents and information about how to apply for citizenship.  He claimed to have been told by a schoolgirl who was working in the office as an intern in the office that all applicants had to pay bribes of at least a certain amount. The farang had a very aggressive hi-so Thai wife who heard about this and complained through her connections.  In the end it was impossible to identify the schoolgirl and the case was dropped. The farang never even tried to apply, so he had no evidence to give.  But this shows how risky its is for police to ask directly for bribes in PR and citizenship sections, although I would not say it never happens.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[scorecard]

18 minutes ago, Dogmatix said:

Things fluctuate in the PR process as different section heads come and go at CW and DOPA, which ultimately controls the process, and they are rotated frequently, even though the senior sergeant majors at the CW desks stay for ever, as none of them want to leave such a cushy job.  You are unlikely to ever meet a commissioned officer on the PR desks at CW, although some must get promoted to Sub-Lt or Lt under the scheme that allows NCOs to apply for commissioned rank after 20 years on the force.  However, there are officers behind the scenes you never see, probably because they are busy working on their handicaps or at second jobs, and those are the ones that make decisions and sign stuff.  The point of this is that the front desk officers don't really have much authority and certainly don't have the discretion to refuse an application out of hand that has nothing wrong with it. It would be risky for them to do this, in case someone complained or sued them in the Administrative Court. Something like that would probably have to have a more senior officer complicit in it to cover up for them, if something went wrong.  You might get rogue officers trying to squeeze big income of it from time to time but there have been very few reports of this type. 

 

There was a complaint of this type in the citizenship process at Special Branch a few years back and it resulted in an extremely stressful investigation of the accused officer that lasted several weeks and probably took some years off her life. In the end there was no substantive evidence as it just turned out to be from a farang's office messenger who was sent to pick up documents and information about how to apply for citizenship.  He claimed to have been told by a schoolgirl who was working in the office as an intern in the office that all applicants had to pay bribes of at least a certain amount. The farang had a very aggressive hi-so Thai wife who heard about this and complained through her connections.  In the end it was impossible to identify the schoolgirl and the case was dropped. The farang never even tried to apply, so he had no evidence to give.  But this shows how risky its is for police to ask directly for bribes in PR and citizenship sections, although I would not say it never happens.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

RE the PR process..."You might get rogue officers trying to squeeze big income of it from time to time but there have been very few reports of this type. "

 

I received approval 27 years ago. I had the interview (about 1.5 hrs) with a snr. officer, who spoke perfect English, within 30 minutes of lodging the application.

 

Pleasant guy, very polite, very focused and he asked what I hought were good questions very approprite to my application for PR.

 

He didn't once make any hint of tea money or whatever and I offered none. 

 

But of course this is just one case. 

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, Dogmatix said:

But this shows how risky its is for police to ask directly for bribes in PR and citizenship sections, although I would not say it never happens.

In Thailand, for anything other than petty bribes, corrupt officials will usually want to carry out the transaction via third parties (agents). As you write, directly asking for bribes is a high risk action.

[Michael Hare]

From reading the above posts about the difficulty of getting PR it seems to me to be different processes involved with different applications. I applied through the yearly country quota system which is in December of each year. Others it seems to me, apply any time of the year through a business application process. This may be more difficult. With my application, besides all the personal documents, I had to show taxes paid and that I had worked successfully in Thailand and my presence and work had benefitted Thailand in a significant way. On the day of submitting my application I joined a queue of about 8-10 people. From memory at the first desk my application was looked at and maybe a few questions were asked. Didn't take long. None of this 3 hour grill. I think I paid a small application fee which I received a receipt for. With waiting in the queue I was in and out in about 1 hour. 

[Michael Hare]

1 minute ago, BritTim said:

In Thailand, for anything other than petty bribes, corrupt officials will usually want to carry out the transaction via third parties (agents). As you write, directly asking for bribes is a high risk action.

Strange. I have lived in Thailand for over 30 years and I have never come across petty bribes and using third parties in cases where I can do the work myself.