Camerata's Guide To The Permanent Residence Process

[Mat268]

yes you should tell Immigration becuase when they go and check with your employer (on site) and you are not there, then you are really in a mess.... I was in phuket and they came to my work place and interviewed me !! Be honest with the team on floor 3, they are very helpful and can suggest what is the correct procedure - be 100% sure all the time - they check more than you think !!! They could even tell me my first pay cheque in 1989 here in Thailand etc etc......

[camerata]

Its very difficult to answer that. I have just presented, with my PR application, the standard Police Report (given under the terms of the UK Data Protection Act 1998) from the local Police and from the Police National Computer, certified at the British Embassy, and awaiting certification at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. However, this is not based on fingerprint records, only on copies of my passport and birth certificate, and some people are telling me this won't be good enough. So far, nobody has queried it. If it isn't acceptable, I have no idea what to do next, as private citizens in the UK are not allowed direct access to the Criminal Records Bureau.

It seems that if a country provides criminal record checks based on fingerprints, Immigration will want it. If it doesn't, it won't. The UK police web site doesn't mention fingerprints, as far as I recall.

If your country offers record checks with or without fingerprints and you submit the one without, Immigration will ask you to get a new one based on fingerprints. They won't necessarily spot this when you submit your documents in December, though.

Also, in the case of dual nationality Immigration only requires the criminal record check for the passport/nationality your application is based on.

I don't know this for sure, but many of the documents required must have been signed within the 3 months prior to submitting the application, so this may apply to the criminal record check as well. At the very least, the record check would have to be dated after one's last entry into Thailand.

[Arkady]

Hi camerata,

Thanks for the great information.

I plan to apply for PR (under working category), but I want to understand what I have to do to keep it, given that I often need to travel outside Thailand for work.

I understand that I need to:

1. Apply each year for a 1-year endorsement of my Residence Book (1,900 THB)

2. Apply each year for a 1-year re-entry visa in my passport (3,800 THB multiple entry).

3. Present myself at the police station covering the area where I am a resident once every five years for a stamp in my Residence Book.

4. Maintain an address in Thailand.

Are there any other requirements?

If I don't do the above (for example work overseas for longer than 1 year), then my PR will be canceled?

Thanks.

You can get your re-entry visa and residence book renewed even when they have not yet expired, if you want to have the maximum time overseas. But you will have to fly back here for a holiday to renew them, if they are going to expire while you are still overseas. It's the only way. They don't ask anything about your job when you renew. It's very routine. I know some one who got his PR cancelled because he had to stay overseas longer than expected for an emergency operation and had medical certificate to prove it. No mitigating circumstances are considered.

[Arkady]

BTW not that I have one but does a criminal record for drunk driving or other traffic offences in Thailand or elsewhere disqualify applications for PR (or citizenship) or cause cancellation of existing PRs. I noted a post saying that they re-check you for a Thai criminal record when you apply for a new resident's book.

The blood alcohol limit here is as low as most Continental European countries i.e. 50ml vs 80ml in the UK and 100ml in most states of the US. I am not advocating drunken driving - just pointing out that the legal limit is much lower than most Anglo Saxons are used to at home.

[younghusband]

Its very difficult to answer that. I have just presented, with my PR application, the standard Police Report (given under the terms of the UK Data Protection Act 1998) from the local Police and from the Police National Computer, certified at the British Embassy, and awaiting certification at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. However, this is not based on fingerprint records, only on copies of my passport and birth certificate, and some people are telling me this won't be good enough. So far, nobody has queried it. If it isn't acceptable, I have no idea what to do next, as private citizens in the UK are not allowed direct access to the Criminal Records Bureau.

I'm just adopting a jai yen yen, wait and see attitude . . . .

You can relax.The standard police report you describe is fine.I don't remember the need for it to be certified but the rules might have changed.

[jumbo]

I understand there are some Thai tests as well, an interview and a multiple choice test

Does anybody have copies of these???

J

[samran]

11 pages, it is getting quite long now (that's a good thing).

But, can someone explain, how/why it is easier for a PR holder to get a work permit? I'm basing this statement in a previous 'benefit's of PR' thread.

Cheers

samran.

[grtaylor]

11 pages, it is getting quite long now (that's a good thing).

But, can someone explain, how/why it is easier for a PR holder to get a work permit? I'm basing this statement in a previous 'benefit's of PR' thread.

Cheers

samran.

I'm not sure it does "officially", but I guess they just may react differently to the situation because you have PR. More than that I don't know, but I have heard people who already have PR say it too.

G

PS - what's 11 pages?

[samran]

11 pages = the length of this thread at this point...

[grtaylor]

11 pages = the length of this thread at this point...

Interesting - its only 4 pages on my computer . . . . but I just realised I set mine ages ago to show 40 posts per page.

G

[Arkady]

11 pages, it is getting quite long now (that's a good thing).

But, can someone explain, how/why it is easier for a PR holder to get a work permit? I'm basing this statement in a previous 'benefit's of PR' thread.

Cheers

samran.

I'm not sure it does "officially", but I guess they just may react differently to the situation because you have PR. More than that I don't know, but I have heard people who already have PR say it too.

G

PS - what's 11 pages?

The big difference is that you only have to apply for a WP to the Labour Ministry, not the Immigration Bureau. It is Immigration that imposes some of the more onerous requirements. The main advantages I have come across are that the Labour Ministry doesn't require the company to have any Thai employees and that it doesn't seem interested in the company's profitability for renewal purposes. You can be the only employee in a company or you can join a company which already has work permits without them having to have four more Thai employees to cover you but you still need B2m paid-up capital for each work permit. I also think the Labour Ministry is less particular about looking at the work that a PR does in the company - otherwise how is a PR expected to support himself? But there is no specific guideline on this to my knowledge.

On the other hand becoming a PR in the first place is made more difficult for employees of small companies by Immigration. Years ago a maj-gen in Immigration (now retired) told me that all business quota PR applicants were quietly eliminated at the first round, if their employer had less than B5m paid-up capital, in order to weed out all the small foreign businessmen who were not told the reason for their rejection. If this is still the practice, it makes it that much harder for small foreign businessmen, since they may have to increase capital from B2m to B5m and demonstrate that the Thai shareholders were able to fund the capital increase themselves.

[samran]

Arkady, thanks for the great reply.

[grtaylor]

Phone call from Immigration last Friday, calling me for Thai test and interview, on 8th February!!! Yikes, earlier than I thought, I'd better get practising!

G

[Arkady]

Phone call from Immigration last Friday, calling me for Thai test and interview, on 8th February!!! Yikes, earlier than I thought, I'd better get practising!

G

Good luck. There is a post in this thread or somewhere else in TV giving full details of the test, if you haven't seen it already. A friend past it a couple of years ago and his Thai is really krap. It seemed that it was easy for him to work out the multiple choice answers, even though he couldn't understand all the questions. Immigration may have been taking the piss in devising the test, as they resented Purachai's demand for a language test because it represented interference, or just couldn't be bothered to administer a more rigorous test. Anyway, keep practising. You never know when they might tighten the test up. Re the interview, I think that, in spite of the language requirement, you are still allowed to bring an interpreter for this, if you want to be sure you will not have any misunderstandings.

[Khaoyaiman]

My wife received a phone call from the immigration office this week and they said they would be coming round to our house to check on things. After my wife asked what the next step would be after the visit. The officer repeated three times "that will be up to my pen". As he didn't arrange a time to visit my wife called him back to inform him that we will not be around for a few days. He then started complaining about how little money he and his fellow officers had and that could we give them some taxi money to come and investigate us.

Has anyone else had this experience? Maybe he is checking to see if I have adjusted to Thai way of doing things! Anyway, there will be three of them coming to my house next week with their hands out.

Bye the way, I applied for my PR in Dec 2006.

[danone]

He then started complaining about how little money he and his fellow officers had and that could we give them some taxi money to come and investigate us.

now thats mean. never heard of anything like that, but we are all aware that it is a way lawyers get clients through PR who are not too sufficient in thai language skills - or who might not have all the needed references.

the only point a lady at PR was indirectly asking for money was when I had to pay the nearly 100,000 baht.

she tried to ask for the business fare, nearly 200,000 baht.

she clearly knew I applied for family reasons, but gave it a try. who knows? perhaps somebody paid double than necessary?

otherwise the whole process was transparent and open from the beginning to the end.

wouldnt know what to do if they ask for money. but guess I wouldnt pay. if your papers are ok, you have nothing to fear that they could deny you.

[Arkady]

My wife received a phone call from the immigration office this week and they said they would be coming round to our house to check on things. After my wife asked what the next step would be after the visit. The officer repeated three times "that will be up to my pen". As he didn't arrange a time to visit my wife called him back to inform him that we will not be around for a few days. He then started complaining about how little money he and his fellow officers had and that could we give them some taxi money to come and investigate us.

Has anyone else had this experience? Maybe he is checking to see if I have adjusted to Thai way of doing things! Anyway, there will be three of them coming to my house next week with their hands out.

Bye the way, I applied for my PR in Dec 2006.

I have never heard of Immigration coming to check on applicants at home or asking for bribes directly. They have always been as nitpicking as possible looking for petty reasons to reject people. I always assumed this was a combination of official xenophobia and a feeling from Immigration that the more people they reject, the more people will look for a way to pay tea money through other channels but not directly to the officers in that room. Maybe this is an isolated occurrence or another sign that Thaksin's drive to get meaner and nastier with foreigners is being followed up enthusiastically by the new lot.

[Khaoyaiman]

Apparently they check on couples who do not have children. This was the reason given when my wife telephoned to check it was actually immigration officers who had arranged to come and visit us.

[manchestermike]

I have searched the forum and cant find the written test.

Please can somebody post a link.

In addition if somebody has more information on the interview questions and helpful advise please let me know.

I applied for PR last December on working satus and should be having my interview in the next 2 months.

Thanks in advance

[danone]

they change the test every year.

not to know what the test is is a part of the difficulty of getting PR.

but do not worry, its no rocket science.

I think hardly anybody failed at that test. if you speak some basic thai, can introduce yourself properly and so on, you should be fine.

more important is how much tax you pay.

[younghusband]

My wife received a phone call from the immigration office this week and they said they would be coming round to our house to check on things. After my wife asked what the next step would be after the visit. The officer repeated three times "that will be up to my pen". As he didn't arrange a time to visit my wife called him back to inform him that we will not be around for a few days. He then started complaining about how little money he and his fellow officers had and that could we give them some taxi money to come and investigate us.

Has anyone else had this experience? Maybe he is checking to see if I have adjusted to Thai way of doing things! Anyway, there will be three of them coming to my house next week with their hands out.

Bye the way, I applied for my PR in Dec 2006.

I'm amazed.This kind of incident doesn't bear any relationship to my experience in obtaining PR, nor of anyone I know who has PR.The behaviour of Immigration Department was always completely professional and there was never even a hint of tea money requirements.Something's fishy here.

[skippybangkok]

I'm amazed.This kind of incident doesn't bear any relationship to my experience in obtaining PR, nor of anyone I know who has PR.The behaviour of Immigration Department was always completely professional and there was never even a hint of tea money requirements.Something's fishy here.

Agreed. I would say I have had this oppinion of immigration ever since day one of coming here. They have always been nice and never had a problem.

[CDB]

I applied for PR in December 2005 and here I am in 2007 with still no word one way or the other. They say my application is still under consideration....

Anyone else in the same boat?

[camerata]

Has anyone else had this experience? Maybe he is checking to see if I have adjusted to Thai way of doing things! Anyway, there will be three of them coming to my house next week with their hands out.

Bye the way, I applied for my PR in Dec 2006.

Doesn't sound kosher to me. Are you dealing with Bangkok Immigration or upcountry?

[camerata]

the only point a lady at PR was indirectly asking for money was when I had to pay the nearly 100,000 baht.

she tried to ask for the business fare, nearly 200,000 baht.

she clearly knew I applied for family reasons, but gave it a try. who knows? perhaps somebody paid double than necessary?

Weird. The 200K is for a single man (or strictly speaking a man without a Thai dependent, I think) in any category. If you are married to a Thai and apply in the business category you pay 100K. I am single so I paid 200K. Immigration asked me if I understood it would be cheaper if I was married. I said yes and asked if I could get a 100K refund if I married later. They said "No!" and you'll probably have to pay 1m baht sin sod as well!

[jumbo]

the only point a lady at PR was indirectly asking for money was when I had to pay the nearly 100,000 baht.

she tried to ask for the business fare, nearly 200,000 baht.

she clearly knew I applied for family reasons, but gave it a try. who knows? perhaps somebody paid double than necessary?

Weird. The 200K is for a single man (or strictly speaking a man without a Thai dependent, I think) in any category. If you are married to a Thai and apply in the business category you pay 100K. I am single so I paid 200K. Immigration asked me if I understood it would be cheaper if I was married. I said yes and asked if I could get a 100K refund if I married later. They said "No!" and you'll probably have to pay 1m baht sin sod as well!

I looked into this mariage thing for my 2007 application

You need to be married for more than two years....so bad luck for the future mrs. there...and me ofcourse

They also explained me the fee discount for marriage is only for when you apply for this reason. If you apply for business/work than it always is 200 K......even if you are married...but I heard from others that it could well depend on the officer behind the desk

They prefer the business/work related application for the obvious tax reason

J

[camerata]

They also explained me the fee discount for marriage is only for when you apply for this reason. If you apply for business/work than it always is 200 K......even if you are married...but I heard from others that it could well depend on the officer behind the desk

Sounds like things have changed in the last few years.

[desmond]

I was granted residency last year. Excellent instructions given here, and to let you know that l was working in Phuket at the time, but it was advised to apply personally in Bangkok (together with your lawyer). Phuket Immigration were very helpful, but advised it easier due to the number of times you will have to visit for paperwork, interview, Thai language test etc etc.

Best bet, get a good lawyer, apply here in Bangkok but make sure that you have paid up in full your monthly and income tax payments, ready to apply for a 'criminal record' in your home country and a bit of advise would be to let your Embassy know in advance and get a contact who can help you when you require to obtain certain certificates from your home country.

Good luck !

Is there any expiry date for the 'no criminal record' document ?. ie : how long is it valid for ?

[Khaoyaiman]

Has anyone else had this experience? Maybe he is checking to see if I have adjusted to Thai way of doing things! Anyway, there will be three of them coming to my house next week with their hands out.

Bye the way, I applied for my PR in Dec 2006.

Doesn't sound kosher to me. Are you dealing with Bangkok Immigration or upcountry?

It was the Bangkok Immigration but not the 3rd floor team - they passed on my file to the investigation team who are located elsewhere. Three of them came round and they were very polite. They said they would normally not announce there intentions of investigating but as we were obviously married from the information we had supplied they arranged a time. It is pretty strange because I was told I couldn't apply under "support a Thai family" because we didn't have children. So applying under the business heading, why did they need to prove we were married?

[skippybangkok]

New List out for 2005 round. Looks like its final ?

Wiered document , the title is 299 people, but there are 318 in there. If 318 people out of how many % got thru ? I was told on day 1 "no problem at all" ( my secretary did everything, no lawyers / brokers ) which was the case although I was starting to wonder for a while.

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/2n...esident_eng.pdf