The Thai Schooling system - can you explain it?

[David48]

.

In the General Forum, a few weeks ago, I asked the question ... The Thai Schooling system - just how bad is it? I received many good and some excellent responses ... thanks for that ...

So now I'm asking ... The Thai Schooling system - can you explain it?

I mean all the elements of it except the Private Schools.

Pre-School

• What age do kids enter pre-school?

• Is pre-school required before attend School formally?

• What types of pre-schooling is available?

In my country there is there a two system.

Primary School (grades 1 - 6) and High School (grades 7 - 12).

• In Thailand is there the same style ... formal separation based on the child's age?

• Is there a Compulsory Attendance age for Thai Children to attend School?

• What is the 'Grading System' for Schools?

• A general overview on how the Thai Schooling System works?

What do terms such as mean? ...

• K1 K6

• Mattayom 4

• OFSTED

• BMA primary school

• Aubaan 1

• M5, M6

• An 'EP' School

• A STA 800 (for maths)

• iGSCE exams

• Thai M6 Cert

• A P6

• O-NET and A-NET

• IB

• Is there such beasts as 'Semi-Government' schools?

• How do children enter University?

My gf's Niece was going to a Temple 'Sunday School'.

• Temple Sunday Schools ... how do they work?

• Are there Temple schools which replace the State based Schools?

• When and why do the Thai girls all get that 'Bob Style Haircut?

So many questions, just pick one or two if you can please and respond.

Please feel free to add answer questions I've not asked about how the Thai Schooling system works ... my knowledge base is very low.

.

[Somtamnication]

I have worked 8 years at Thai govt. schools and now work at a private school. Still cannot explain "their" system.

I will ask a mod to move this to education forum. Tons of help there!

[metisdead]

Moved from General topics to the Primary & Secondary education forum.

[NeverSure]

David, if you use a regular government school, I would plan on supplementing the education with some home tutoring.

I have a lady friend who is a Thai teacher in a rural school near Sisaket. I can't believe how many things they can find to do that has nothing to do with being in a classroom teaching.

Not long ago she sent me pictures of the teachers and all of the kids harvesting rice in a 2 rai field the school owns. They were doing it by hand, using scythes to cut, beating it on tarps to knock the rice loose, and then winnowing it with electric fans. This took more than a week. I had to wonder who got the money for the rice.

Next they took the kids by bus on a one week trip to a wat for Buddhist involvement.

I don't see how the kids ever learn anything of the Three R's. (Reading, 'Riting and "Rithmatic.)

This teacher is a science teacher (and the English teacher) but right now she's spending a month preparing exhibits for a science fair. When I was a kid, the kid's prepared the exhibits, amateur as they may be, but the kids learned from preparing them. Not this school. The fair is "fun" for the kids.

If my experience with just 2 schools in Isaan is a clue, then you'll need to teach the kids yourself.

[pinkpanther99]

I have worked 8 years at Thai govt. schools and now work at a private school. Still cannot explain "their" system.

Pretty much this.

I think I commented in your other thread but I taught here for two years when I first arrived in Thailand and I couldn't explain the education system here.

One thing I can tell you is that every kids passes, which I didn't know when I first arrived. I found out the hard way about this when I was marking a test and didn't pass 3 students, because they didn't get the correct amount of marks.

The head of English for the school, stormed into the teachers office demanding to know why I hadn't passed the 3 kids. I explained that they didn't have enough marks. "No, no, can not". The HoE then made me erase each of the 3 scores and write in a false score so that the students would pass. It was blatant cheating and complete fraud.

Like you, David48, I also have a young daughter who will be starting school in a couple of years. I get more concerned by the day about what kind of education she will receive in school.

And one final thing, Thai students spend a hell of a long time in school during the average school day. When I was teaching, some kids were arriving at 7am and not leaving until 6pm. All these extra classes they study might sound good but the reality is that it is often just a way for the Thai teachers to make a bit of extra money on the side - or at least it this was the case in my experience.

I know the Thailand uses the Rote system (i think that's correct, could be wrong) which involves a lot of repetition and copying from the board. I'm trying not to turn this into a Thai bashing post but very few Thai kids seem to develop skills to be able to think 'outside the box' or even think for themselves - again, I'm not saying this is the case for every kid but it was quite striking when I was teaching.

I now work in the private sector, nothing to do with teaching, but I see what impact the education system has had on Thai kids when I try to recruit Thai staff at work. I can get office girls who can sit and answer the phone, speak OK English and who can do general admin, but when we try and recruit some forward thinking, creative, graphic designer or web programmer, for example, it is incredibly difficult, almost impossible. Or when I do give a three month trial to a graphic designer, first day on the job when I ask him to design a web banner (give him spec and ideas of what I want), he says "show me a banner you like on another website and I can copy it". Not able to think for himself and hardly the creative type I was hoping for.

Anyway, mini rant over and apologies for going slightly off topic. That's two rants in as many weeks. What's happening to me?

[AyG]

Anuban (nursery school) from ages 3-5. Optional. Years referred to as anuban 1 (A1), anuban 2 (A2), &c..

Prathom (elementary) for ages 6-11. Compulsory. P1-P6.

Mathayom (secondary) for ages 12-17. M1-M6.

M1-M3 are compulsory. After that, if a student wants to continue his/her education he/she can study M4-M6 or take a three year vocational course.

[96tehtarp]

Anuban (nursery school) from ages 3-5. Optional. Years referred to as anuban 1 (A1), anuban 2 (A2), &c..

Thank for your contribution AyG but this looks incorrect. I have a child in grade 1. He's 6.5 y/o and just started Anuban 1. And he's already gone through 4 years of nursery school. Maybe I am wrong?

[ebean001]

This is all you need to know - My step son came from the rice farm school after the 5th grade to Chiang Mai to a private school. The private school tested him to see if he wa ready for the 6th grade. I said NO. Test him to see if he is ready for the 5th grade that he just completed in rice farm country.

RESULT: He got an absolute 0 out of 30 questions. After repeating the 5ht year at the private school he took the same test - prepared for 5th grade. He got 13 out of 30 right this time.

[DocJohnnie99]

The Thai Schooling system - can you explain it?

<- that's more or less it.

[AyG]

Anuban (nursery school) from ages 3-5. Optional. Years referred to as anuban 1 (A1), anuban 2 (A2), &c..

Thank for your contribution AyG but this looks incorrect. I have a child in grade 1. He's 6.5 y/o and just started Anuban 1. And he's already gone through 4 years of nursery school. Maybe I am wrong?

Anuban is nursery school. It's much more likely that he's started Prathom at that age. In practice the ages can vary a little bit (usually a little bit higher), but not by that much.

[Suradit69]

This is all you need to know - My step son came from the rice farm school after the 5th grade to Chiang Mai to a private school. The private school tested him to see if he wa ready for the 6th grade. I said NO. Test him to see if he is ready for the 5th grade that he just completed in rice farm country.

RESULT: He got an absolute 0 out of 30 questions. After repeating the 5ht year at the private school he took the same test - prepared for 5th grade. He got 13 out of 30 right this time.

30 questions to assess 5 (or more) years in school? Reaching any kind of conclusion about the comprehensive success or failure of a child based on 30 questions would be pretty sketchy.

Getting 0 out of 30 is hardly encouraging, but it would be pretty easy to construct a test of 30 questions so that a well-educated adult would fail the test and, depending on the source of the 30 questions and the way the test is administered, children can be taught to pass predictable tests and still possess few of the skills expected of someone at their age/grade-level.

There was an American TV show called Are You Smarter than a 5th Grader? in which adults competed by attempting to answer questions that someone in grade 5 of primary school allegedly could answer. Granted, some of the adults appeared to have the intelligence of a mollusk, but even those who seemed relatively intelligent ended up looking like congenital idiots.

[nealthewheel]

The Thai Schooling system - can you explain it?

<- that's more or less it.

Combine the following state, religion, and cultural bias = Thai education system

but the kids are happier than any I've seen in the UK (on the whole)

[KhnomKhnom]

Thailand government schools are designed for the lower classes of Thai at the historic time when they were the Other class along with the Upper class, whose kids went to some kind of private instruction.

The result is a holdover system designed quite well for the kind of lower class work available........ repetitive, disciplined to stay on the job, and not requiring creative input. Farm work is an example and assembly line work is better. Rote--teacher say, students repeat--education is ideal for rote or repetitive work in jobs where there is one basic instruction... put part A into part B... that the worker does over and over with disciplined precision. The more one thinks on such job, the worse it is and the worse will be the results.

Today, with the rise of the middle class, Thailand education is in a bind because now a manager level of worker is desired that needs flexibility and some creative thinking. The existing model does not meet that need, so cash strapped middle class must make do with either some private tutoring or expensive international private schools. Middle class us often too busy with jobs to do much home schooling.

What I see among the poor now days is that many, many such kids have tablets and are on the Internet big time, with games, Facebook, and some racy sites, too. They are doing a kind of self schooling of dubious quality, but more than the rote schooling method.

Rapid change is called for by circumstances but is anathema to Thailand style of change.

[Strangebrew]

There system is simple if child goes to school they go to next grade higher now matter they do or learn a thing. Thailand has the highest passing rate of any country 100% no failures. That also applies to international and private schools. I call it knucklehead schooling.

[HeijoshinCool]

David, when it comes to sending your little ones to a Thai school, my advice is to take Nancy Reagan's advice:

Just say no.

Why not spend the school year in Oz, the months off in LOS?

[laobali]

The Thai Schooling system - can you explain it?

<- that's more or less it.

Combine the following state, religion, and cultural bias = Thai education system

but the kids are happier than any I've seen in the UK (on the whole)

Ignorance is bliss!

[ozsamurai]

Anubaan is (Kindergarten/Pre-school) A0 to A3. The A0 classes are not offered at all schools, in fact (kindergarten is usually like in Oz a private thing). A0 can be started at 2yo A1 3yo A2 4yo A3 5yo, then you move to Prathom (Primary School) grades 1 to 6, High School sometimes broken like the American System into Junior and Senior High schools (3 years each). Just like Oz you can drop out and do a trade after Junior High.

Oz

[ford8]

I am taking responsibility for a Thai boy, single mother. He is 5 yo and IMHO extremely bright, imaginative and curious, as no doubt most children could be, given encouragement.

( I often wonder how many parents given one of the tests for a Mandarin might fare.."Write down EVERYTHING you know".)

He is a whizz on tablets, PC's and drawing and constructing physical and PC railway layouts. No Freeman Dyson though. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freeman_Dyson#Early_life

He can program the early stages of LiteBot from code.org and figure out difficult Plants v Zombies 2 stuff, and of course the continuous Why ? Why ? Why? which I try to answer.

Not just a bookworm he excels on his scooter and in play areas like the Funarium.

Actuarially I won't live long enough to guide him to the completion of whatever education he might be capable of.

I have arranged a small trust for this, but don't know how to advise the trustee, who knows less than I do but is 100% capable of carrying out my wishes..

So I would like advice please,as David48, on part of the system.

When he finishes his primary and secondary, (he now goes to a popular, 99% Thai, inexpensive private school) , what then ?

I guess he would be 16 ? What, if any recognisable qualifications might he get ? He has more English than the school admin, who ignore emails.

How to qualify for further education ? The trustee would fund fees and accomodation and living expenses.(family completely excluded)

Are there any scholarships available. ?

I have other concerns than the academic. Taking him home from school, I see that most of the older boys congregate in what appear to me as dubious places, I don't think they are study groups, so like most he will be influenced by his peers..no solution ?

His home life is with a dysfunctional family, can he rise above this somehow ?

i could arrange for him to have the use of my condo but suspect it would be exploited by his relaives, to put it mildly.

[David48]

David, when it comes to sending your little ones to a Thai school, my advice is to take Nancy Reagan's advice:

Just say no.

Why not spend the school year in Oz, the months off in LOS?

Mate ... I just want to understand the system, the terms and terminology.

Most likely the majority of the boys schooling years will be done in the West ... but ...

... but also they will have some time in a Thai school.

I want them to fully understand, the language, both written and spoken, form social bonds with children their own ages and a solid grounding in Thai Culture ... one perspective of that will be through the eyes of a School Child.

When they are men, and have the choice of country where to live ... they may choose Thailand, so I want them fully equipped to take advantage of that choice.

As for "Why not spend the school year in Oz, the months off in LOS?" ... not a bad idea.

But I will next year need to get a real job to earn some coin as I'm living on my savings ATM..

One option is to get a FIFO mining job, pay the house off, get some savings.

To consider options, a person needs information ... one of the pieces in that puzzle is understanding the Thai Schooling System.

.

[Don Aleman]

Yes, there are Thai schools but, no, there is no system ! It 's swiftly explained by the " no fail " policy which, to simplify, means that even though a student fails a subject, or indeed, all subjects, he/she cannot be held back and is promoted to the next grade !

This can/does continue and the student, completely devoid of any intelligence at all, will/does get a diploma This avoids embarrassment for the student/parents and displays the teachers competency to superiors -- " 100 % passing ", passing on to a maids/janitors career !

This comes to an abrupt stop when he/she applies to a foreign school and can't properly spell his/her name or, spell anything ! He/she is then handed a mop/broom and embarks on /herlifetime vocation

As this will probably continue forever Thailand will be able to supply domestic servants/motor bike drivers/truck loaders, to the entire world.

[rct99q]

Hi David, dont get too caught up on all the terminology. Wiki has a great breakdown of the general structure of the Thai school system. I have 2 children, one in M. 1 (grade 7) and young daughter not yet in school. I have also taught in the Thai school system. The worsr program was the English conversational program leased out by a company called sine. In my opinion I would avoid enrolloing my children in it.

However again in my opinion they were very good at teaching math, science, music, and geography / history (although these last two are a bit skewed). you will need to supplement your childrens education at home. But if your children show any interest in the above subjects (msth &science especially)they will do well in the thai system.

I strongly agree the biggest problem was getting children to be creative and acting as an individual. The system makes it very difficult to o this. In part because of large classrooms it is nearly impossible for students to be independant and still get the guidance they need. And before the "teachers polce" jump all over this post I am typing this out on a tablet which I hate using.

So in general I trust the system to provide the basics and even offer a better program in some subjects, but you will need to be an active parent in othrfs.

[AyG]

What do terms such as mean? ...

K1 K6 American system for number classes.

Mattayom 4

OFSTED UK body responsible for monitoring school standards

BMA primary school Bangkok Metropolitan Authority primary school

Aubaan 1

M5, M6

An 'EP' School English Programme i.e. higher English content in the curriculum. Often involves native English speakers or Filipinos.

A STA 800 (for maths) Possibly SAT? American university entrance exam. Lots of American exams are marked out of 800.

iGSCE exams International GSCE - the international version of exams taken in various subjects at the age of 16 in the UK.

Thai M6 Cert

A P6

O-NET and A-NET Standardised exams in Thailand. Not exactly sure what ages they are taken. Possibly end of M3 and end of M6 respectively. Someone will correct me.

IB International Baccalaureate Exam taken at age 18 in a range of subjects. Originally European. Now increasingly being used in the UK as an alternative to A-levels - particularly in public (i.e. private) schools.

[Mystery]

To give you a bit of back ground I've lived in Thailand the last ten years, never taught in government school but plenty of language centres and have been raising my step-son with my Thai husband the last 4 years.

I have many bad things to say about Thai schools, but firstly, I want to say my son was HELD BACK a year - yes he FAILED!! And had to do grade 5 again!! So it does happen, although I would imagine rarely...

BUT.... I've also witnessed them not passing exams, re-sitting them again and again until they get the necessary score to pass!

Don't even get me started on their teaching methods, drill repeat, copy etc

Any projects - he uses google - copy and pastes EVERYTHING without reading ANYTHING onto a new piece of paper, adds a few pictures and prints it off and seals it in a nice folder - he get's high marks cos it looks pretty!

When I was at school we had to read read read and then write our own material based on what we'd read with a few quotes from places we'd got the information from - my son had NO CLUE what he'd written, whether it was relevant or what the content was - SHOCKING for me!

They hardly EVER have any homework (we have an adopted son too now) and very VERY often the whole school stops learning for Sports Day or Buddha day or whatever other projects they have going on - i.e. there's not much studying going on.

Now they have to sit exams every month apparently, so they will all definitely pass at the end of each year - again, teachers just making them sit and sit until they pass.

Yes totally agree with everyone they can't think outside the box, creativity of intuition or anything like that is severely missing and DEFINITELY NOT ENCOURAGED!

And the teachers... yes they still use the cane, they still physically punish the students despite it being illegal - and I as a parent feel like some lower class plank whenever I'm there, the teachers seem to lord it over you!

I've been called to the office before when my son was in trouble. There was another mother there, on her knee's crying, apologising on behalf of her son, it was ridiculously humiliating for her, they were trying to make the son feel sorry for his mother... Just crazy! Needless to say I didn't cry or any of that nonsense, just said there are consequences for his bad behaviour at home too - but those teachers, I swear they'd cane the parents too if they could!

Finally, there are some good ones... The system and old school behaviour seems to be fairly well entrenched still but there are occasional teachers that are refreshingly caring - my son's head teacher at his Primary school was one of them - 600 students and knew them all individually and was so nice and easy to speak to and approach about any problems or questions.

As far as I know it goes like this:

Anubaan 1-3 (Nursery/Kindergarden)

Pratom - 1-6 (Primary School)

Matayom - 1-3 (compulsory) Secondary school

Matayom - 4-6 (optional) Secondary school (can also change to vocational course instead at this stage)

Mahavitiyalai - University - I'm not sure if teachers during M6 would help with the application process but at this stage the kids can apply for Uni

What frustrates me as I still see LOADS of kids quitting school even age 12 and no-one seems to care or do anything about it.

Some of it has to do with registering kids for school. So if you're a construction worker, bring your kids with you, your registerered as living in Isaan in the housebook but you want your kids to go to school where you work? You gotta make sure you transfer your kids to a house register here, where you're working, extremely hard as people don't let you go onto their house register when you rent a property, so how does said man get his kids to school here?

Then if you move, half way through school year, well your kids have to wait for the next school year to start - can't change schools during the year... So I believe this makes it difficult for a lot of people, especially construction workers, to keep their kids in school.

Just my two pence piece worth - good day to you all

[davidmann]

my experience kids go to school and don't get educated

[inbangkok]

The Thai Schooling system - can you explain it?

<- that's more or less it.

Combine the following state, religion, and cultural bias = Thai education system

but the kids are happier than any I've seen in the UK (on the whole)

Gee, what a surprise! Let kids do whatever the hell they want....Don't hold them academically accountable.....And pass them on no matter how mentally deficient they are! I just can't seem to figure out why kids would like this system.....hmmmm.........

[joepattaya1961]

Just a bright example of an mixed govt-private institution.

Kingston College Pattaya

Educates young people from lever M3 to become a nurse, masseur/masseuse, hotel & tourism employee.

3 options:

- full time study: MO-FRI with just a little bit of home work; takes 3 year to graduate at M6 - (vocational) level

- Sunday study: SUN approx. 3 hours with "loads of homework"; takes also 3 years to graduate at M6 - (vocational) level

- e-Learning option: no experience.

The first 2 options take the same amount of years, although there is a huge difference in spending time at school.

First hand experience is: Not much of learning here and homework means: search in Google, cut&paste; adjust a bit and there you go!!

[Gecko123]

O-NET and A-NET Standardised exams in Thailand. Not exactly sure what ages they are taken. Possibly end of M3 and end of M6 respectively. Someone will correct me.

A-NET stands for advanced net, which is a more difficult exam than the O-Net exam which everyone takes. My understanding is that its the equivalent of the PSAT and SAT exam in the States.

[smotherb]

David, if you use a regular government school, I would plan on supplementing the education with some home tutoring.

I have a lady friend who is a Thai teacher in a rural school near Sisaket. I can't believe how many things they can find to do that has nothing to do with being in a classroom teaching.

Not long ago she sent me pictures of the teachers and all of the kids harvesting rice in a 2 rai field the school owns. They were doing it by hand, using scythes to cut, beating it on tarps to knock the rice loose, and then winnowing it with electric fans. This took more than a week. I had to wonder who got the money for the rice.

Next they took the kids by bus on a one week trip to a wat for Buddhist involvement.

I don't see how the kids ever learn anything of the Three R's. (Reading, 'Riting and "Rithmatic.)

This teacher is a science teacher (and the English teacher) but right now she's spending a month preparing exhibits for a science fair. When I was a kid, the kid's prepared the exhibits, amateur as they may be, but the kids learned from preparing them. Not this school. The fair is "fun" for the kids.

If my experience with just 2 schools in Isaan is a clue, then you'll need to teach the kids yourself.

I am almost dumbfounded. You seem surprised a rural school in a developing rice-eating nation would involve the students in farming rice by hand; or that a Buddhist nation would instruct their children in Buddhism. Go figure!

[MrBrad]

Although there are very rare exceptions, here the teachers cannot teach, and the students cannot fail. Amazing.

[horisize]

There is no such thing as the "thai school system" It is based on the preussan system. So is the rest of the world. All countries are adapted somewhat to their "purpose". Grammar, logic and rethoric is a nono. critical thinking is a nono. Schooling and education are mutually exclusive terms.