Thai justice in spotlight over cracks in Koh Tao case

[sabaitoo]

This evidence ???

[laobali]

http://bangkok.coconuts.co/2014/10/07/koh-tao-murders-accused-men-recant-confessions-tell-embassy-lawyer-they-were-tortured Koh Tao Murders: Accused recant confessions, tell embassy lawyer they were tortured

Most positive news yet.

[off road pat]

The much more worrying thing is, if these are the wrong men who are going to be prosecuted, that the upper ranks of the RTP and even the PM would be in very hot water after all the statements they've made. This would cause damage way beyond tourism.

I hope i'm wrong but i don't see this going to trial. I suspect there will be a Guilty plea possibly on ' advice ' they will be spared to death penalty which means the witnesses and evidence will never be tested in court as there seems more than enough room for a half decent defence lawyer to plead a very good case and raise substantial reasonable doubt..

I wouldn't be surprised if it ends as a "double suicide". Face saved and no more "stupid" questions.

Or shot while trying to escape.......

[Dogmatix]

An interesting point from the recent police statements on the television is that suspect Zaw Lyn took David's phone and gave it to a Burmese friend who found it didn't work (with a Thai SIM card) and smashed it up before helpfully depositing in the bushes next to Zaw's residence. The police didn't name this accomplice but then they don't seem to know the real names of the suspects anyway.

Why has this accomplice not been named and arrested as an accessory after the fact?

[ttthailand]

I really want to be angry with someone for these rapes and killings. I want to get it off my chest and vent..... But with the unprofessional way the police have handled this case and all the questions still lingering in my mind it is hard to really believe if they got the rights guys or not..... This has left me in a state of suppressed anger, dam@ you police for screwing this up....

[intune53]

Why is the British Government so queit ?

I reckon that's the "diplomatic" way of working out what the hell to do, particularly when Thai police are lying about you having given your approval to their bungled investigation:

1. Mark Kent ‏@KentBKK Oct 6

   Much speculation about UK views on Koh Tao investigation.UK has good relationship w Thai Police, but I have not commented on investigation

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2. Ian ‏@iamKohChang Oct 6

   @KentBKK So you didn't praise police in solving the case & say they showed "exemplary professionalism" as reported http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/three-migrant-workers-confess-rape-murder-british-tourists/ …

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@iamKohChang No

[Dogmatix]

Clip from Thai PBS about the Burmese takraw players who were allegedy treated with boling water.

The clip also shows David's black iPhone 4 (before it was broken and left in the bushes) with a document purporting to show it was part of the deceased's personal effects.

The condom is also shown and the commentator mentions the fact that Hannah's DNA was found on the outside but none was found on the inside. She said that the police declined to answer their questions about the relevance of the condom.

A policeman is shown insisting that only the two suspects whose DNA was allegedly found inside the victim were involved in the rape and murder (despite the apparently contradictory evidence of the condom) and begging for the public to understand that.

[Bung]

http://bangkok.coconuts.co/2014/10/07/koh-tao-murders-accused-men-recant-confessions-tell-embassy-lawyer-they-were-tortured Koh Tao Murders: Accused recant confessions, tell embassy lawyer they were tortured

Most positive news yet.

This is big news. Those boys felt safe enough with someone they could trust to tell the truth. Brave lads. Hope this opens the case up again after being "closed" by the Thai police.

[RubbaJohnny]

Diplomats need to be seen to be diplomatic.

Whatever the merits and outcome of this tragedy foreign embassies will need to cooperate with local authorities in the future.

Regardless of nationality or competence any foreign diplomat will be become aware of how things occur here.

Let us not forget fake confessions,beatings and false imprisonment can occur anywhere anytime and are not always necessarily malicious.

New evidence,new witnesses,changed confessions and so on can alter our understanding over time.

The International spotlight and need for better relations with neighbours ,investors and tourist nation's may ensure this tragic occurence has a fuller enquiry than most.The bus queue,red bs boy and pink limo lad all suggest that whoremongers won't be deterred,very few come for demcracy justice or to study investigative journalism

Let us not forget that poor locals are often lost with impunity and the majority of ordinary poor people away from the cities are no more corrrupt in my experience than westerners,loss of face crime and punishment have different processes in different traditions.

I cannot see that UK backpackers will desert the bucket beaches for Cambodia or anywhere else on gap year between applying to uni and Oz.

Australians are not going to pay going rate for whore in Auckland,Americans wont get Amity benefits in Vietnam

Edited October 8, 2014 by RubbaJohnny

[Baerboxer]

A modern police force can not use boiling water, beatings and electric shocks as interrogation tools, shame on you RTP.

Do you have any proof of what you allege happened?

[Baerboxer]

http://bangkok.coconuts.co/2014/10/07/koh-tao-murders-accused-men-recant-confessions-tell-embassy-lawyer-they-were-tortured Koh Tao Murders: Accused recant confessions, tell embassy lawyer they were tortured

Most positive news yet.

This is big news. Those boys felt safe enough with someone they could trust to tell the truth. Brave lads. Hope this opens the case up again after being "closed" by the Thai police.

Amazing. How so many have made up their mind that these are good, upstanding, honest, never lie, totally innocent illegal migrant workers.

I have no idea, in reality, whether they are guilty, innocent, or were involved with others. There has been a plethora of contradictory media reports, usually based on stories originating from news sources we slag off on here as unreliable, poorly written and badly translated.

Any lawyer worth his salt will be advising his/her clients to take advantage of all this confusion and social media hysteria.

How do you know "those boys" are telling the truth, half truths or simply lying. They might be so confused they simply repeat the last instruction from whoever, they be wicked killers lying to save their skins, or they may be involved with others and too frightened to say. Their injuries could have been caused in other struggles.

One thing is for sure, we will never know, and can only see what evidence is presented in court from the reports of the trial.

Edited October 8, 2014 by Baerboxer

[Johpa]

Thailand needs to send some of its crew over to the west to get educated into how to bullshit better and get people to believe it better.

No, its a cultural thing specific to the intersection of Thai concepts of power and Thai concepts of "face". At all levels of Thai society, it is assumed that the "face" you present (kan sadeng naa) will be the face accepted by others. There are of course limits, but as you become more powerful, more wealthy, the more you can assume that others have no choice but to accept your story at face value. Thus the Thai police can concoct a narrative that explains a situation and makes them look competent and they expect that society will accept their narrative as fact and they see no problem with pursuing libel charges against anyone who would dare call them on their narrative. This is just a short superficial summary. For those who would like to better get a handle on Thai culture I highly recommend Niels Muldar's book on Thai society.

[laobali]

At least they'll get some sort of trial now and hopefully the proper defence to which they are entitled, whether they turn out to be found guilty or not.

[balo]

This evidence ???

Where did you get that picture from , source ? Who took the picture?

[chooka]

At least they'll get some sort of trial now and hopefully the proper defence to which they are entitled, whether they turn out to be found guilty or not.

If Thailand had the jury system I think it would be a good bet that they would walk after this total cluster muck.

[jabis]

Prosecutor sends the case back to investigators... (The Nation / http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Prosecutors-seek-changes-30245056.html )

[rametindallas]

Am i missing something, wasnt their initially 3 men involved...

Of the three playing guitar and smoking on the beach, the one whose cigarette butt had his DNA on it left the scene before the crime and has not been charged. Of course, this is according to newspaper reports. I don't know who is most at fault for the confused reporting; whether it is the police or the newspapers, neither has very high standards. I await a trial to, hopefully, see justice carried out. I don't think the two being charged did it but they could have. I do not have access to real evidence or the truth of who said what, so I will not speculate. There are many on this forum who are very sure of themselves and I wonder the source of their confidence.

[TV7]

The much more worrying thing is, if these are the wrong men who are going to be prosecuted, that the upper ranks of the RTP and even the PM would be in very hot water after all the statements they've made. This would cause damage way beyond tourism.

I hope i'm wrong but i don't see this going to trial. I suspect there will be a Guilty plea possibly on ' advice ' they will be spared to death penalty which means the witnesses and evidence will never be tested in court as there seems more than enough room for a half decent defence lawyer to plead a very good case and raise substantial reasonable doubt..

i'm sure you're right. Guilty plea, flimsy evidence produced, quick trial, defence of being drunk, didn't mean to kill them etc, 20 year sentence, but deported to Myanmar after a few years where they will be quietly released 'on parole'.

[belg]

a lot of tourists just don't care

they are here to be a 2 week millionaire

bedding a new girl every evening

flying back to their home country

and boasting about it

a pair of british people died, it will not change their mind to come back next year and the next

as they cannot get this kind of pleasure, freedom, attention anywhere else in the world, for that price

[laobali]

a lot of tourists just don't care

they are here to be a 2 week millionaire

bedding a new girl every evening

flying back to their home country

and boasting about it

a pair of british people died, it will not change their mind to come back next year and the next

as they cannot get this kind of pleasure, freedom, attention anywhere else in the world, for that price

Sadly you are probably right. I wouldn't even be surprised to see T shirts with "I survived Koh Tao!" on them.