Thai Police: Flaws in Koh Tao murder case now fixed

[freedom4life]

Fixed? So have they caught the real suspects?

[greenchair]

Where were the blood splatters on the clothes of the accused the morning after ?

Where were the wet clothes of the accused after they had dragged David into the sea ?

Where is the CCTV footage of them going back home via the bar where they left the guitar ?

Were their finger prints on the murder weapons ?

Why was their DNA not matched the first time they were tested ?

Who used the condom with Hannah's DNA on the outside and nothing on the inside ?

How did their semen get on the outside of the condom when there was no mention of it earlier ?

Have these and the many other questions been fixed ?

Are you saying they now found seaman on the condom. The condom that for the longest time they said had nothing. And then refused to talk about. Link?? Please

[hobz]

Glad to see thaivisa commenters are on the same page about this one. But sadly the real killers and rapists of not only women but of justice as well will walk free. The best thing we can reasonably hope for is that these innocent scapegoats will walk free. I highly doubt that as there will be way too much political pressure on the court (likely all the way from the PM) to "do the right thing for Thailand" and convict.

At this point I hope for a vigilante. Where's batman. Not even joking. Law and order has no chance here.

[Carrerakiss]

The latest from the Thai newspapers is the report from the CCTV expert who states that the video taken of the Koh Tao head mans son coming out of his Bangkok apartment allegedly at the time of the murder has been doctored. He states that the dates on the video have been changed and the CCTW camera its self has been changed for one that gives a different position of the sons movements.

There are also reported doubts of the police statement that the was no DNA found inside the condom because sea water may have washed it away.Porntip Rojanasunan the respected Thai forensic scientist makes the observation that if salt water had washed away the DNA from inside the condom,it would also have washed away any of the girl victims DNA from the outside of the condom. Although the Thai police maintain that the reason why no DNA was found inside the condom was because of the contamination by sea water,they have not explained why it did not wash away the girls DNA from the outside of the condom. These questions need to be answered.

.

Have to say that I think the CCTV is the easiest way to show there has been a cover up. DNA can be contaminated and/or switched to the extent that no one really knows what's what. Precisely the position we either wittingly or unwittingly seem to have arrived at.

But the CCTV is out there and has been used to alibi a person who, at least at the start of the case, was "of interest". Finding out whether the CCTV has been doctored needs a lot more technical expertise than I have, but I bet there's literally thousands of people just in Thailand who could work out if it's been doctored or not.

I'm also betting the UK police have more than enough expertise at hand.

[RTH10260]

I've yet to see a single mention of this, in international media. It's hard to deal with, but people die, and constantly all over the world. I don't understand this daily obsession, even here on TVF.

The case is getting noticed, at least here in Europe, not really for the murders per se, but for the less than glorious police work. Of course it's not a daily media appearance.

[DennisF]

1st hanna drugged

2nd brought her behind the rocks

3rd min 2 thais - try to rape her ( propably one of them are Nomsod, the other are VHM 2nd son, nephew - or what ever

4th David drops in, want help hanna, get attacked by one of the thais with this knife

5th the 2nd thai leaf hanna, take off the condom - he not errected yet, so no semen inside

6th they finish to kill or iimobilice David , drop him no or later in the sea

7th Sean meantime come in - or were in already before - he dont agree or is a not wanted wittness -

so he is also with the same weapon attacked ( wounds on Davids head and Seans arm seems from same weapon -

8th Sean suceeds to escape

9th David might be still somewhere on floor , but unconscious

10th Hanna is so much drugged, she not able to walk away

11th next shocking - this 2 Burma guys have heard something and have a look,

12th they" got from them the chance to rape hanna , without condom ,

13th after this 2 guys raped hanna , the Thais told them they will hand them over to police

if they will not leave Koh Tau or hide ,

14th Now, they are alone, drown David to the sea, and kill Hanna, even she were maybee also uncousious meantime,

as it seems no defence from her - she wwere killed by the haw, because they fear she could wittnesed next day;

15th they, the Thais did know to escape without footage on the CCTV camera

16th the Burma guys - or a 3rd went to a beachwotch - found the murder scene - and fleed the area - but were captured

by CCTV -

or someone of them remembered that he have lost before something on the rape and wanted to recover it,

17th Davids friend - went maybee later there to search for David as he not returned in the Bungalow -

but he wwre shocked - returned - and feared to be involved or just be later tortured as wittnes by police there,

as everyone there knows about drug, mafia, gangraping and police;

18th Only 1 donger wittnes were left: Sean - so they tried to kill him later, but he suceeded to escape, he still fear their warnings,

that thai mafia would find him everywhere, even in UK and Kill him,

Sean were living and working long time enough on AC bar, he did know , he real would be killed if he would talk;

19th Nomsod and the other Thai inform - his father VHM about the exident

20th Nomsod leave the Iland early morning

21th When the crime were uncovered,

The Big BOss Village Head man´instructed the Police very clearly, how police have to investigate,

that any crime have been done by this Burmese scape goats;

22th On all pictures you can see, the police were never left out a second by the eys and instructions from the village Head man;

23th All bribes have been handed over now,

so the case is " fixed " and clear to go to the prosecution !

Sorry my english , and i am not Sherloc H. but maybee CSI-Th can finalice my report;

However well intended I REALLY WISH that people would stop posting these ridiculous step by step theories.

Stick to facts and opinions, without these disturbing attempts at fictional story telling.

Try to have some sensitivity for the friends and family of the victims who may be reading this.

[Carrerakiss]

The latest from the Thai newspapers is the report from the CCTV expert who states that the video taken of the Koh Tao head mans son coming out of his Bangkok apartment allegedly at the time of the murder has been doctored. He states that the dates on the video have been changed and the CCTW camera its self has been changed for one that gives a different position of the sons movements.

There are also reported doubts of the police statement that the was no DNA found inside the condom because sea water may have washed it away.Porntip Rojanasunan the respected Thai forensic scientist makes the observation that if salt water had washed away the DNA from inside the condom,it would also have washed away any of the girl victims DNA from the outside of the condom. Although the Thai police maintain that the reason why no DNA was found inside the condom was because of the contamination by sea water,they have not explained why it did not wash away the girls DNA from the outside of the condom. These questions need to be answered.

.

I am not a respected forensic scientist, but even I can see that salt water would wash off semen from both inside and outside of a condom, or possibly neither. But certainly not only one of them.

[hobz]

And all the posters like EyesWideOpen claiming that the general was gonna clean up LOS and corruption was all but dead under super Prayuth. Yet all the man could muster was a hint of 'som nom na' at the girl for wearing a bikini!

And she wasn't even doing that.

I fear the General is not one to follow in conflict. He is winning the battle, but perhaps losing a war. Had he thrown a few police sergeants under the bus and had proper police do a proper job, he could well have lived up to his billing as a modern day reformer for a nation gradually slipping into civil war.

Unfortunately, he chose to support the old way of doing things. And he can't deny them, he is Thai, he obviously knows how things work in Thailand.

So, he may win this battle, because gradually the British may lose focus and the case slips away from peoples consciousness. But it will only serve to reinforce the West's current view that an illegitimate military government is trampling over human rights. And destroy the hopes of Thai people that they have a reformer as a leader.

Whilst I hesitate to mention his name because I really don't want to give his argument any oxygen, there is a fugitive from Thai justice who claims the case against him was politically motivated. It's arguable that Western countries have mostly sat on the fence with regard to his claims. Which way might they lean now I wonder.

Think strategic general. It's not just Western countries who may be losing faith, your own people are getting a serious case of déjà vu over your coup.

Didn't he say "there's no mafia on koh Tao". That right there made me loose respect for him.

He can still turn it around by launching a full investigation into the mafia (including police: the 6th family on the island). But highly doubt that he will. He's just a crook.

[djhotsox]

This is just a theory and maybe another TV member can let me know if I assume wrongly, but assumption #1 is that the prosecutors of this case are likely more intelligent than the police involved gathering the evidence and putting together a story? yes?

So, let's say that while going over this huge document the prosecutors find bits where the story is weak or something just doesn't fit.....something that once inspected or viewed by the defendants side will hurt the prosecutors case?

Well, how do they get that document back to the police to "improve"? Well, they publicly hand it back saying it lacks substance and we all the while assume that the "substance" is factual evidence when in reality maybe they wanted to hand it back so they could have the police take something out rather than put something in?

Whose side are the prosecutors on anyways? I highly doubt they are above the rest of the lot here and are squeaky clean above the law sorts? Lawyers after all right?

Your theory is wrong.

And if your theory extends to judges also being more intelligent, then that theory is also wrong.

The "theory" was that the prosecution handed back the document to the police to make exclusions...not inclusions....to help their case.

Prosecutors being more intelligent than police officers on KT was an "assumption" not a "theory".

[aripengu]

This is sad and ridiculous!

[iReason]

I've yet to see a single mention of this, in international media. It's hard to deal with, but people die, and constantly all over the world. I don't understand this daily obsession, even here on TVF.

"I've yet to see a single mention of this, in international media..."

What? Soi dog ate your newspaper?

Seriously, that is the most ridiculous statement I have read on TV.

(And there are a lot of them...)

I could sit here for 10 minutes and fill the whole page with links.

Perhaps you can find answers in John 3:10...

Edited October 16, 2014 by iReason

[KIWIBATCH]

.....the suspects had bruising and bleeding on them after we had extracted their confession....

(Fixed and perfect)....The suspects were treated humanely given a meal and a comfortable bed for the night in the cell following their arrest....

....these two boys are from Myanmar...following their arrest we beat the shit out of them......we beat the shit of anybody and everybody from Myanmar...we don't want them in Thailand

(Fixed and perfect)....we treat all people from Myanmar with respect....Myanmar is part of the ASEAN community.......they are our friends and neighbours

....we are not going to look into the KT headmans son's story or whereabouts on the night of the murder as his father graciously handed us 1m baht.... which has now been dispersed to all the officers who performed an excellent job in tracking down these Myanmar murderers.......

(Fixed and perfect).......we refused the offer of the KT headmans 1m baht as this would have appeared as corruption or a bribe and spoilt the RTP's reputation.....

[DennisF]

It would now appear almost certain we have simply exchanged a T puppet for an S puppet.

No change in this 'parliament' sure'.

[heyexile]

UK AUTOPSIES:

Already of course carried out on poor Hannah and David. They will have established cause of death, likely weapons etc

CORONERS INQUEST(S):

Due to be held JAN 6th. Coroner (or his jury if there is one) can arrive at any verdict he sees fit. That is my understanding and can be checked on Wikipedia. Coroner will have the autopsy reports of course..

[rametindallas]

But today, Pol.Maj.Gen. Paween Pongsirin, deputy commander of Region 8 Police, said the case file is now "perfect." "FUBAR"

[Thomas Hannah]

Where were the blood splatters on the clothes of the accused the morning after ?

Where were the wet clothes of the accused after they had dragged David into the sea ?

Where is the CCTV footage of them going back home via the bar where they left the guitar ?

Were their finger prints on the murder weapons ?

Why was their DNA not matched the first time they were tested ?

Who used the condom with Hannah's DNA on the outside and nothing on the inside ?

How did their semen get on the outside of the condom when there was no mention of it earlier ?

Have these and the many other questions been fixed ?

Who murders a man ,then rapes his girlfreind,,But takes the time,to use a condom.Then murders her..?,,Work it out for yourselfs.

[biplanebluey]

What a joke this whole case

I know 2 young lads who would disagree with you there

[DennisF]

UK AUTOPSIES:

Already of course carried out on poor Hannah and David. They will have established cause of death, likely weapons etc

CORONERS INQUEST(S):

Due to be held JAN 6th. Coroner (or his jury if there is one) can arrive at any verdict he sees fit. That is my understanding and can be checked on Wikipedia. Coroner will have the autopsy reports of course..

This is very enlightening and gives me some hope for the 2 suspects if they are innocent.

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/a_to_c/coroners/

[MikePhuket1970]

I've yet to see a single mention of this, in international media. It's hard to deal with, but people die, and constantly all over the world. I don't understand this daily obsession, even here on TVF.

It would be nice to see one day how the dirty smiles

from the Toochivien family,Koh Tao police,Somyot and other high ranking authorities

will vanished like the morning dew

For that hope and justice we are fighting for

[Brian Corrigan]

Where is the Scottish guy who was threatened by the bar apes? He has got all the answers.Why haven't the girl victims friends been called to give evidence at the trial? Why is the General refusing a new investigation?

[DennisF]

What a joke this whole case

I know 2 young lads who would disagree with you th

Not to mention 2 families who are in mourning for loved ones.

[MexicanFarang]

I don't understand Buddhism, but I remember Joseph Campbell saying Buddhism is the acceptance that The World is "perfect" just as it is, flaws and all.

This concept must drive Westerners who have a sense of "right" and "wrong" crazy. Not to mention the concept of correcting what is "wrong".

As they say in Mexico, ehhh, what can we do?

[Frank James]

Would it be too much to hope that the British government might, in concert with the Myanmar government, assemble and pay for a 1st class legal team to defend these boys? In the meantime, shine a big, continuous, hot spotlight on the jail where they are confined, to assure that they won't decide to "commit suicide", as was already hinted at by some jail honcho.

This case stinks so bad!

[TTom911]

What a joke this whole case

I know 2 young lads who would disagree with you th

Not to mention 2 families who are in mourning for loved ones.

I just hope they (the victim's families) can find some consolation in the fact that people don't want this go "the usual way". They must be in horrific pain. Ultimately, "our bickering" here is not driven by a desire to "gossip", to pure s.... over T.... or any other alter motives. We, also in the name of the victims, just want to see justice served, justice which deserves the name and which, if people ask for, can be proven publicly and explained. Justice is not for the "(not) elected few" to decide on behind closed doors or in doubtful (at best) proceeding. We are not some stupid cattle which can be fed with whatever leftovers are available. We just have enough of these over and over and over repeating stories where at the end of the day nothing happens... Let's see, this time round...

[heyexile]

LATEST `TIME` REPORT: Today, 16th Oct

"Thai Dictator Faces Ire Over Bungled Investigation Into Murder of British Tourists."

http://time.com/3512541

See also Andy Hall http://twitter.com/Atomicalandy

[phuketandsee]

This has now made the New York Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/15/world/asia/hearings-open-into-killings-of-two-british-tourists-on-thai-island.html?_r=0

"The suspects chose a team of 20 lawyers on Monday." Wow, 20!

"We hit them with the handle of a hoe two or three times." If this is accurate, how come the metal part of the hoe was covered in blood? And for sure the handle would not have made those wounds on David.

I'm beginning to think this is not going to go away so easily and could haunt Thailand for a long time.

[RTH10260]

The UK will not do ANYTHING which would have any significant (meaning, more than cosmetic) until they can't avoid it. Most countries would act the same way, unfortunately - called "diplomacy". And that's what "everyone" counts on and continues with "business as usual" ... It would be a very pleasant surprise if proven wrong here... I really can't see that happening, coz it would be a very public and unpleasant exercise as the "behind closed doors" options get lesser and lesser...

It's basic courtesy of life between nations that one does not mingle with the internal affairs of other countries.

That said, any displeasure is handled "diplomatically", behind closed doors and under four eyes. It doesn't happen in presence of the media and the public. This allows for face saving, especially important for Asians. That the UK has invited the Thai envoy to explain in person *was a significant slap* to the face, at diplomatic levels. Diplomacy will always compartementalize issue and seldom get different matters disturb relationships. It needs more than one badly handled criminal case for that to happen. A show of real disatifaction would be the publishing of a travel warning for (parts of) Thailand by a UK government agency.

As for the public, they could put pressure up thru consumer groups adressing the travel industry in the UK. I guess TAT will counter with an additional campaing.

[Robert2006]

Virtually anyone that has had any experience with Thai police knows they are for sale and no one believes anything they say as fact. This is very convenient for the police, these Burmese’s guys are the perfect pawns, poor and uneducated they can’t fight back.

For other types of crime I can tolerate the corruption but this type of violation is a crime against humanity, this is as serious as it gets, the correct offenders need to pay. I really hope it has not degenerated down to the level that even with a crime like this the Thai police are still looking for a pay day. In case the police forgot their children have to walk the streets with these monsters if they put the wrong people in prison.

[Number 3]

LATEST `TIME` REPORT: Today, 16th Oct

"Thai Dictator Faces Ire Over Bungled Investigation Into Murder of British Tourists."

http://time.com/3512541

See also Andy Hall http://twitter.com/Atomicalandy

Thai DICTATOR! Simply Brilliant.

[BangkokHank]

But the Thai police are totally responsible for this mess and all of the skepticism/doubt about the crime investigation and legal process. If they had just done their job methodically and relied on all of the investigative and forensic expertise offered to them and not run a daily soap opera with press conferences and media briefs, they would not be so heavily scrutinized and doubted so much now.

But of course, this is Thailand and Thais have to save face...and know everything and don't need help from anyone.

Your criticism of the police handling of this case assumes that they actually ever wanted to honestly solve the crime. It has been obvious from day one that this is simply not the case. Of course they want the case to be "closed" - so they can get back to making money off tourists - and get the international spotlight off of themselves. But closing the case is not the same as solving it.

I would suggest that the police have known all along exactly what they were doing. I would suggest that they have been deliberately bungling the investigation - to make it impossible to trace the crime back to the real killer. All the while, the real killer was in Bangkok, fabricating his alibi (which, as I have just read on this thread, appears to have indeed been a blatant fabrication).

But in order to "close" the case (if not "solve" it), scapegoats needed to be found. And who better than a couple of Burmese fellows who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time? As I have mentioned before, if they had done it, why didn't they flee to Burma? They had ample opportunity to do so before they became suspects. (Some other readers here have even mentioned that they were even cleared before by previous DNA tests!)

Also as I have mentioned before, this was not just a rape and a murder. It was a crime of hate. A crime intended to make the victims PAY - for a perceived slight. What motive could these Burmese guys have had to have caused them to have murdered these two people so brutally? I still insist that the murderer is someone who had a prior encounter with the victims.

And finally, what could motivate the police to so deliberately bungle such an important investigation? I'm not going to say that it's money - given to them by the father of the murderer - because I have no proof of that. But I am pretty confident in saying that that the police are NOT being motivated by a yearning for justice.