US calls planned Thai poll delay to 2016 'unwise'

[Wombat6]

Butt out USA ??? Look after your own messes as you are in no position to be commenting on other countries affairs !!

[thailiketoo]

The U.S. government chomping at the bit to install its vision of a one world government?

Seems wherever US sticks its nose, trouble starts brewing. Am I right or am I right?

Since when is a call for free elections a vision of one world government? No you are 100% wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Giving_Index

[thailiketoo]

Butt out USA ??? Look after your own messes as you are in no position to be commenting on other countries affairs !!

The USA is echoing statements by Australia and the Eu. Seems you might not tell Australia to butt out? Butt I don't really know.

[phil2]

This narrative from a person that refuses to speak on record is typical of a country that that uses the word "democracy" to push their own agenda whether what they are pushing is democratic or not. If the US supported democracy they would not have been involved in over 35 seizers of power since the 1940's. If they supported democracy they would not have achieved the following;

1. Iran. 1953. Mohammad Pahlavi takes power in a coup planned and supported by the USA and UK secret services (Operation Ajax). He topples the flourishing and popular democracy of Mohammed Mossadeq.

2. Ecuador. 1963. The CIA back a military coup that overthrows President Arosemana, because of his independent policies. A military junta assumes command, cancels the 1964 elections, and begins abusing human rights.

3. El Salvador. 1963. Jose Duarte wins the election, but is immediately removed and exiled by the USA backed military. Just 14 families run most of the country's businesses, mainly coffee growing.

4. South Korea. 1979. General Chun Doo-Hwan takes power in a coup. His regime is armed and supported by the USA. One year later, the general orders the killing of hundreds of civilians in Kwangju.

5. Chad. 1981. In 1981. The CIA set up, financed and trained a Chadian military force in Sudan. Led by Hissen Habré, this force overthrows the government of Chad, ruling for 8 years with American support. Habré's regime would kill tens of thousands of people and torture over 200,000. Many dissidents would simply disappear. In 2000, Habré would be tried for his crimes in Senegal.

I have about 30 more examples too.

America doesn't need me to bash them. History speaks on my behalf.

Well said. They never mind their own dirty business.

Charles Taylor was supposed to be in an American jail while he was busy waging war against the then Liberian president.

[thailiketoo]

why?

Because the mess that was created by Thaksin the last decade or so takes longer to clean up.

Why wouldn't a new election take care of the problem? You mean you are not in favor of free elections?

[HeijoshinCool]

I think the USA isn't in the position to give recommendations......Instead they should consider to bring their own war criminals to court.

.

If I woke up tomorrow with a terminal disease, I'd want to hear experiences and potential cures from others riddled with the same disorder.

[thailiketoo]

Well said. They never mind their own dirty business.

The USA is saying the same thing as Australia and every other free democratic nation in the world what is wrong with that?

[rijb]

I think the USA isn't in the position to give recommendations......Instead they should consider to bring their own war criminals to court.

I think a third world country guest "isn't in the position" either.

[Baghdad]

I think the USA isn't in the position to give recommendations......Instead they should consider to bring their own war criminals to court.

They don't recommend , the say its unwise , and they are 100% right about that.

It's none of there blady business!

[thailiketoo]

I think the USA isn't in the position to give recommendations......Instead they should consider to bring their own war criminals to court.

.

If I woke up tomorrow with a terminal disease, I'd want to hear experiences and potential cures from others riddled with the same disorder.

The USA has had 20 coups and 18 different constitutions? Gee I didn't know that.

[djjamie]

A delay may be unwise, but would a rushed poll be that much better only because some still think democracy = elections ?

Since Thailand is going through reforms, a constitution update, a possible referendum, the stability by having some 'government' present seems much more important than having a poll with reforms in progress and a constitution in limbo.

Look at what happened when the PTP rushed elections in February when everyone warned them they should wait.

An approach that reduces democracy to only a mechanism of conducting elections is not a guarantee for real democratic change especially if democratic values and principles are deliberately ignored and disrespected. A democracy without democrats can only mean old violent politics is played out albeit under a different name. Despite deceiving appearances Thai elections have had little to do with a genuine democratic process.

While democracy works for the benefit of the majority if not the whole population Thai elections have worked for the interests of a few political elites at the behest of the majority. An election prematurely will ensure violence in the streets and terrorists killing our children once again. Having elections prematurely will be a one way ticket to a power grab and nothing beyond that. Having elections prematurely will again give us an elected government that fail to deliver to the very people who trusted and voted for them.

Before rushing to elections there needs to be reform. It is critical to allow democracy to flourish and for that reform is needed. Are some so blinded by this almost crazed addiction to an election only to be witness once again to a broken corrupt democracy. Do people love coups that much that they don't want to see this done right now so coups will be obsolete in the future? I hate coups and this is why I want to see this done right now so I do not have to see an army come in on behalf of the majority to stop the country being held hostage at the barrel of a gun. Or in this case an M79 grenade launcher with complete impunity to prosecution by the so called elected government.

AND people…Elections are not the only part of democracy. It is all I ever hear from some while the other principles are conveniently overlooked when the PTP were in power, but are brought up incessantly when the guys that are trying to restore democracy took power.

Look at what happened when the PTP rushed elections in February when everyone warned them they should wait.

The constitution at the time specified that elections must be held after the dissolution of parliament within a specified period of time - seems to me to have been 60 or 90 days...

This was driving the timing of the elections. Adherence to the constitutional process.

Wonderful. So the PTP will respect the constitution when it suits them and ignore it when it i does not suit them. That's what criminals do. Respect the law when it suits them and ignore the law when it doesn't.

Maybe the PTP should respect the constitution all the time and people will in turn respect them more.

Though I do thank you for inadvertently highlighting why reform and constitutional change is needed. It is so Thailand does not step into these precarious constitutional gray areas again.

Maybe you could echo this information you have relayed to me in the transparent public forums the government are holding to allow them to mould a constructive constitution for the people. Remember it is the Thai citizens who this is going to benefit right? Not the PTP ministers.

Or will you just complain about the current government and sit on the side lines and see what happens?

Edited December 24, 2014 by djjamie

[thailiketoo]

It's none of there blady business!

The Eu, Australia and UK are saying the same thing. None of their business either?

[thailiketoo]

AND people…Elections are not the only part of democracy.

What are the other parts?

[thailiketoo]

What does all of you people's hatred of the USA have to do with the point that free elections in Thailand should happen as soon as possible?

What country other than Russia, Cuba, China and other totalitarian dictatorships would not want free elections?

Australia is reducing its interaction with Thailand's military, Foreign Minister Julie Bishop said on Saturday, adding three planned activities had been postponed due to the coup, according to The Straights Times of Singapore.

The European Union External Action Office (EEAS) released a statement expressing EU’s extreme concern on the situation in Thailand. EEAS announced on 28 May: "We are following current developments with extreme concern. Thailand must urgently restore the legitimate democratic process and the Constitution, through credible and inclusive elections. We urge the military leadership to free all those who have been detained for political reasons in recent days and to remove censorship. We call on all parties to exercise the utmost restraint. Respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms must be upheld. Only an early and credible roadmap for a return to constitutional rule and elections will allow for EU's continuous support.

All of the Western countries want Thailand to have elections, not just the USA.

I know some of you folks like to bash the US in any thread but your are being disingenuous and doing Thailand a disservice in trying to make every thread a USA bashing fest rather than the topic of the thread.

I'm sure your right that all the Western countries support what they see as democracy, the right to vote and elect a government free from hindrance as desirable.

But, that also relies on having robust judicial systems, laws and law enforcement in place to underpin the parliamentary process. Thailand has never had a real democracy. and lacks the robust legal framework and systems to support it.

That's what a government is supposed to provide. Of all those thing probably the most important is a free press.

[baboon]

I think the USA isn't in the position to give recommendations......Instead they should consider to bring their own war criminals to court.

.

If I woke up tomorrow with a terminal disease, I'd want to hear experiences and potential cures from others riddled with the same disorder.

The USA has had 20 coups and 18 different constitutions? Gee I didn't know that.

I am as anti-American foreign policy as they come, a lot of the time. However I think every once in a while the US should stand up, slam their cards on the table and say 'You know what, you want us out, fine. <deleted> you' and mean it. I would love to see the reaction when the ramifications of that sinks in - for a start, a military who can actually fight anyone apart from their own citizens is tremendously costly...

[thailiketoo]

I am as anti-American foreign policy as they come, a lot of the time. However I think every once in a while the US should stand up, slam their cards on the table and say 'You know what, you want us out, fine. F### you' and mean it. I would love to see the reaction when the ramifications of that sinks in - for a start, a military who can actually fight anyone apart from their own citizens is tremendously costly...

I agree with you. I don't know where they find the people who they trust to tell them what to do. The USA could start reading Thai Visa and in a short time pick out the people who have a clue what is going on and offer them a job. They really need some help. They do express the opinions of the Western world but for my money they are incorrect.

[djjamie]

AND people…Elections are not the only part of democracy.

What are the other parts?

If, as an educated westerner, you have to ask this then it highlights why reform is needed for Thai's that are not educated.

I do assume you are not serious though and you do in fact understand that elections are only one principle of democracy.

[NeverSure]

I think the USA isn't in the position to give recommendations......Instead they should consider to bring their own war criminals to court.

They don't recommend , the say its unwise , and they are 100% right about that.

It's none of there blady business!

Yes it is unless Thailand wants to join China and kiss off the USA which has a treaty to defend Thailand at any time, and which is the #2 buyer of its exports.

What can the US do? Since just after WWII it has had a treaty to defend Thailand and not that long ago it sailed two Nimitz-class carrier groups through the area as a signal to China to back off with fishing in the S. China Sea, of making claims to small Asian countries' islands, and to blocking some commercial airline routes.

China backed down. Now with Thailand having a dictatorship that's "running" into bed with China, what will the US do the next time China becomes the bully?

Is the US expected to continue defending Thailand against China while Thailand is rushing into China's arms led by a dictator who obviously approves of China's communist dictatorship and wants a new best buddy?

Would someone here actually want the US to "mind its own business" and let China take over all of E. Asia? Does no one appreciate the clear fact that the US recently made China back down from claiming islands that belong to Japan, The Philippines and others? Does no one appreciate the clear fact that the US made China get the hell out of fishing in the S. China Sea and protected small SE Asian countries' fishing rights?

How blind could we be to sit back and let Thailand get gobbled up by China under the rule of a fascist military dictator?

Edited December 24, 2014 by NeverSure

[gchurch259]

The US, of which I am a citizen, has enough of it's own problems without trying to tell Thailand how to run their country. Now is having 125%, of registered voters, turn out at some of the polls is a Democratic Election then I have been uneducated and miss informed during my 79 years of living.

As far as holding back 7.4 million of grants because of the coup is a big deal then Thailand is in more trouble than I thought. Besides Obamanation spends more than that on vacation/golfing.

Most of the people in the world have no clue how corrupt and bad things were here, controlled by the Democratically Elected Government.

Enough before I get run out of Thailand and banned from USA.

Edited December 24, 2014 by gchurch259

[djjamie]

What does all of you people's hatred of the USA have to do with the point that free elections in Thailand should happen as soon as possible?

What country other than Russia, Cuba, China and other totalitarian dictatorships would not want free elections?

Australia is reducing its interaction with Thailand's military, Foreign Minister Julie Bishop said on Saturday, adding three planned activities had been postponed due to the coup, according to The Straights Times of Singapore.

The European Union External Action Office (EEAS) released a statement expressing EU’s extreme concern on the situation in Thailand. EEAS announced on 28 May: "We are following current developments with extreme concern. Thailand must urgently restore the legitimate democratic process and the Constitution, through credible and inclusive elections. We urge the military leadership to free all those who have been detained for political reasons in recent days and to remove censorship. We call on all parties to exercise the utmost restraint. Respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms must be upheld. Only an early and credible roadmap for a return to constitutional rule and elections will allow for EU's continuous support.

All of the Western countries want Thailand to have elections, not just the USA.

I know some of you folks like to bash the US in any thread but your are being disingenuous and doing Thailand a disservice in trying to make every thread a USA bashing fest rather than the topic of the thread.

I'm sure your right that all the Western countries support what they see as democracy, the right to vote and elect a government free from hindrance as desirable.

But, that also relies on having robust judicial systems, laws and law enforcement in place to underpin the parliamentary process. Thailand has never had a real democracy. and lacks the robust legal framework and systems to support it.

That's what a government is supposed to provide. Of all those thing probably the most important is a free press.

Ok. So the rule of law could be seen as less important than freedom of speech?

I would subscribe to ALL the principles of democracy being equally important in establishing a true democracy.

That is why the military intervened. Because they understand that all the principles are equally important.

That is why reform is needed my friend.

Merry xmas.

[thailiketoo]

AND people…Elections are not the only part of democracy.

What are the other parts?

If, as an educated westerner, you have to ask this then it highlights why reform is needed for Thai's that are not educated.

I do assume you are not serious though and you do in fact understand that elections are only one principle of democracy.

No I am serious. I don't think you can tell us other principles of democracy? Easy to prove me wrong. List the other parts of democracy. I predict all you can do is flame me. No offense, I'll apologize If I'm proved wrong.

[thailiketoo]

What does all of you people's hatred of the USA have to do with the point that free elections in Thailand should happen as soon as possible?

What country other than Russia, Cuba, China and other totalitarian dictatorships would not want free elections?

Australia is reducing its interaction with Thailand's military, Foreign Minister Julie Bishop said on Saturday, adding three planned activities had been postponed due to the coup, according to The Straights Times of Singapore.

The European Union External Action Office (EEAS) released a statement expressing EU’s extreme concern on the situation in Thailand. EEAS announced on 28 May: "We are following current developments with extreme concern. Thailand must urgently restore the legitimate democratic process and the Constitution, through credible and inclusive elections. We urge the military leadership to free all those who have been detained for political reasons in recent days and to remove censorship. We call on all parties to exercise the utmost restraint. Respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms must be upheld. Only an early and credible roadmap for a return to constitutional rule and elections will allow for EU's continuous support.

All of the Western countries want Thailand to have elections, not just the USA.

I know some of you folks like to bash the US in any thread but your are being disingenuous and doing Thailand a disservice in trying to make every thread a USA bashing fest rather than the topic of the thread.

I'm sure your right that all the Western countries support what they see as democracy, the right to vote and elect a government free from hindrance as desirable.

But, that also relies on having robust judicial systems, laws and law enforcement in place to underpin the parliamentary process. Thailand has never had a real democracy. and lacks the robust legal framework and systems to support it.

That's what a government is supposed to provide. Of all those thing probably the most important is a free press.

Ok. So the rule of law could be seen as less important than freedom of speech?

I would subscribe to ALL the principles of democracy being equally important in establishing a true democracy.

That is why the military intervened. Because they understand that all the principles are equally important.

That is why reform is needed my friend.

Merry xmas.

What are all the principles of democracy?

[WhizBang]

The USA is right, this junta will not relinquish power willingly.

[Xircal]

It only confirms what the BBC News site predicted at the end of November: http://www.bbc.com/news/business-30218621

Hopefully, it'll have a positive effect on the Euro which is heading south once more: http://www.ecb.europa.eu/stats/exchange/eurofxref/html/eurofxref-graph-thb.en.html

[djjamie]

AND people…Elections are not the only part of democracy.

What are the other parts?

If, as an educated westerner, you have to ask this then it highlights why reform is needed for Thai's that are not educated.

I do assume you are not serious though and you do in fact understand that elections are only one principle of democracy.

No I am serious. I don't think you can tell us other principles of democracy? Easy to prove me wrong. List the other parts of democracy. I predict all you can do is flame me. No offense, I'll apologize If I'm proved wrong.

Let me suggest that you tell me. The burden of proof is on you my friend.

The burden of proof is the imperative on a party in a trial to produce the evidence that will shift the conclusion away from the default position to one's own position. I hold the default position my dear friend.

I think you don't understand that for one "equal protection under the law" is a principle of democracy since the PTP never respected that from November, 2013 to May, 2014.

Merry xmas my friend.

[djjamie]

I'm sure your right that all the Western countries support what they see as democracy, the right to vote and elect a government free from hindrance as desirable.

But, that also relies on having robust judicial systems, laws and law enforcement in place to underpin the parliamentary process. Thailand has never had a real democracy. and lacks the robust legal framework and systems to support it.

That's what a government is supposed to provide. Of all those thing probably the most important is a free press.

Ok. So the rule of law could be seen as less important than freedom of speech?

I would subscribe to ALL the principles of democracy being equally important in establishing a true democracy.

That is why the military intervened. Because they understand that all the principles are equally important.

That is why reform is needed my friend.

Merry xmas.

What are all the principles of democracy?

Still can't name em all heay?

Say hi to Fab4 for me my friend.

[Jay Sata]

I think the USA isn't in the position to give recommendations......Instead they should consider to bring their own war criminals to court.

I agree 100%.

Bush,Cheney,Rumsfeld etc.

[NeverSure]

When is the last time the USA did something 'wise'?

A lot of socialist/fascist/communist countries could learn from the USA. The leaders in Thailand have NO idea how to run an economy. What does one learn about the economy in the army? What to army pals know that could help? Economies around the world are shrinking.

Bloomberg Dec 23, 2014 8:32 AM PT

The U.S. economy roared into overdrive in the third quarter as consumer and business spending fueled the biggest expansion in more than a decade.

Gross domestic product grew at a 5 percent annual rate from July through September, the biggest advance since the third quarter of 2003 and up from a previously estimated 3.9 percent, revised figures from the Commerce Department showed today in Washington. The median forecast of 75 economists surveyed by Bloomberg projected a 4.3 percent increase in GDP.

------------------------------------------------------------------

This can be done ONLY by a free people. Right now Thailand's private business economy is over controlled and the leaders don't see it.

The army running a country.

Edited December 24, 2014 by NeverSure

[JAG]

I'm sure your right that all the Western countries support what they see as democracy, the right to vote and elect a government free from hindrance as desirable.

But, that also relies on having robust judicial systems, laws and law enforcement in place to underpin the parliamentary process. Thailand has never had a real democracy. and lacks the robust legal framework and systems to support it.

That's what a government is supposed to provide. Of all those thing probably the most important is a free press.

Ok. So the rule of law could be seen as less important than freedom of speech?

I would subscribe to ALL the principles of democracy being equally important in establishing a true democracy.

That is why the military intervened. Because they understand that all the principles are equally important.

That is why reform is needed my friend.

Merry xmas.

What are all the principles of democracy?

Still can't name em all heay?

Say hi to Fab4 for me my friend.

Strange, you will NEVER NEVER answer this question will you? I wander why that is, when all your arguments rely so heavily upon these "principles". I really do wander?

Edited December 24, 2014 by JAG

[djjamie]

I'm sure your right that all the Western countries support what they see as democracy, the right to vote and elect a government free from hindrance as desirable.

But, that also relies on having robust judicial systems, laws and law enforcement in place to underpin the parliamentary process. Thailand has never had a real democracy. and lacks the robust legal framework and systems to support it.

That's what a government is supposed to provide. Of all those thing probably the most important is a free press.

Ok. So the rule of law could be seen as less important than freedom of speech?

I would subscribe to ALL the principles of democracy being equally important in establishing a true democracy.

That is why the military intervened. Because they understand that all the principles are equally important.

That is why reform is needed my friend.

Merry xmas.

What are all the principles of democracy?

Still can't name em all heay?

Say hi to Fab4 for me my friend.

Strange, you will NEVER NEVER answer this question will you? I wander why that is, when all your arguments rely so heavily upon these "principles". I really do wander?

Strange, you will NEVER NEVER answer this question will you? I wander why that is, when all your arguments rely so heavily upon these "principles". I really do wander?

​Strange that no one will ever ever answer this question either.

I have forever claimed that there are 15 principles of democracy and no one can ever denounce that and all they do is question it.

Does no red apologists know what the principles of democracy are or they want to keep putting the burden of proof on me? Or do they ask me so they can understand what the principles are? It aint hard. The secret is they are more than elections.

You tell me what the principles of democracy are? Yes,yes, yinglcuk was elected mate!

Come on. Name 10 and I will accept you know at least 2/3rds...