If families with kids are going to places and are not looking for what Patong has I'd have thought the best choice would be not to go there. It's hardly a secret what much of the draw of Patong is about. Bit like someone choosing to holiday in Vegas not wanting to go to a place full of casinos. Plenty of other places in Thailand to choose with nice beaches without picking Patong or Pattaya to take the kids.

I often wonder what the mindset is when I see folks with 6-9 year olds trailing them round the coyote bars in Patong. Up to 1-2 years I can understand. If you really MUST go there. It's all be just a blur anyway. But older kids?

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If families with kids are going to places and are not looking for what Patong has I'd have thought the best choice would be not to go there. It's hardly a secret what much of the draw of Patong is about. Bit like someone choosing to holiday in Vegas not wanting to go to a place full of casinos. Plenty of other places in Thailand to choose with nice beaches without picking Patong or Pattaya to take the kids.

I often wonder what the mindset is when I see folks with 6-9 year olds trailing them round the coyote bars in Patong. Up to 1-2 years I can understand. If you really MUST go there. It's all be just a blur anyway. But older kids?

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You do know that Phuket is much more than just Patong ?

Families with kids have many other much nicer beach other without all the sleeze of Patong.

If families with kids are going to places and are not looking for what Patong has I'd have thought the best choice would be not to go there. It's hardly a secret what much of the draw of Patong is about. Bit like someone choosing to holiday in Vegas not wanting to go to a place full of casinos. Plenty of other places in Thailand to choose with nice beaches without picking Patong or Pattaya to take the kids.

I often wonder what the mindset is when I see folks with 6-9 year olds trailing them round the coyote bars in Patong. Up to 1-2 years I can understand. If you really MUST go there. It's all be just a blur anyway. But older kids?

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You do know that Phuket is much more than just Patong ?

Families with kids have many other much nicer beach other without all the sleeze of Patong.

Exactly - that's why Patong is dead....

If families with kids are going to places and are not looking for what Patong has I'd have thought the best choice would be not to go there. It's hardly a secret what much of the draw of Patong is about. Bit like someone choosing to holiday in Vegas not wanting to go to a place full of casinos. Plenty of other places in Thailand to choose with nice beaches without picking Patong or Pattaya to take the kids.

I often wonder what the mindset is when I see folks with 6-9 year olds trailing them round the coyote bars in Patong. Up to 1-2 years I can understand. If you really MUST go there. It's all be just a blur anyway. But older kids?

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You do know that Phuket is much more than just Patong ?

Families with kids have many other much nicer beach other without all the sleeze of Patong.

Yes but the point I'm making is SPECIFICALLY about PATONG. That's why I SPECIFICALLY talk about people dragging their kids around PATONG. Nowhere do I mention I'm talking about the wider area of Phuket. Attention to detail!

Yes but the point I'm making is SPECIFICALLY about PATONG. That's why I SPECIFICALLY talk about people dragging their kids around PATONG. Nowhere do I mention I'm talking about the wider area of Phuket. Attention to detail!

Plenty of other places in Thailand to choose with nice beaches without picking Patong or Pattaya to take the kids.

I suppose your are correct, but why not talk about other areas in Thailand like Karon, Kata, Laguna, etc all on Phuket island.

Because THIS thread is about Patong??????

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Flame and off topic post removed

I noticed that Montes restaurant has closed and the building/land is either for lease or sale?

That restaurant seems to have been open forever even though the patronage had fallen off quite markedly over the past few years, although I suppose the lean years have finally caught up with them, unless anyone else knows differently?

Also what used to be the Market Bar in Nanai and was then sold, now known as The Blarney Stone, is up for sale and others in Nanai must be hurting judging by the lack of customers I've seen when driving by many times.

It's not only the accommodation, food & beverage places which are hurting judging by the increasing number of empty small retail outlets along Nanai and Banzaan and I suspect this low season will be a killer for many.

I noticed that Montes restaurant has closed and the building/land is either for lease or sale?

That restaurant seems to have been open forever even though the patronage had fallen off quite markedly over the past few years, although I suppose the lean years have finally caught up with them, unless anyone else knows differently?

I had always thought that Montes was in a 'poor' business location, yet it seemed to do well for many years. I noticed it was advertised for sale about a year + ago. No surprise to me that it is a now closed. Wrong wrong location.

It used to be a good location before they build the third road; when many more Westerners lived in Sai Nam Yen.

Yes, surprised it lasted so long.

Don't know whether I'm right on this or not, but perhaps the landlords in places like Nanai Road are not doing too badly...........

I noticed that whenever some place shuts down, it's not long before something else takes its place, before that shuts down and something else pops up, and so on, so I don't suppose the landlords mind too much as long as they're getting some money, however what I can't understand is why people don't learn from the previous owner's mistakes/lack of business/poor positioning etc.

Near me in Soi Nanai 6, five little roller blind shops are now occupied, although four of them have changed hands at least once in a short space of time and I predict that it will happen again as none of them seem to be doing much business, as was the case previously. Just a few metres down the road is another little bar which has recently opened up in place of a short lived shop and that seems to be doing very little business.

Opposite the now empty guesthouse/mini hotel, Suite Dreams, a new bar is being built, which is almost opposite a new bar which has just been built and has next to no customers in it. Just around the corner a little Thai restaurant has closed due to lack of business, this after it was previously another Thai restaurant which closed due to lack of business, and just opposite it is an almost defunct massage parlour and the lady owner is going to make......... guess........... a bar out of it because of lack of business.

This scenario is repeating itself all along Nanai Road with the previously named Beachhouse Bar, which closed due to falling patronage, now open again and is enjoying – – not a lot of patronage. And three other bars along that same stretch of road towards the north doing next to no business at all, and two of those have opened up after the other bars failed due to.......... lack of business!

Some of these are owned by Thais and some have farang backers, but no matter which, surely some commonsense has come into play here?

Don't know whether I'm right on this or not, but perhaps the landlords in places like Nanai Road are not doing too badly...........

I noticed that whenever some place shuts down, it's not long before something else takes its place, before that shuts down and something else pops up, and so on, so I don't suppose the landlords mind too much as long as they're getting some money, however what I can't understand is why people don't learn from the previous owner's mistakes/lack of business/poor positioning etc.

Near me in Soi Nanai 6, five little roller blind shops are now occupied, although four of them have changed hands at least once in a short space of time and I predict that it will happen again as none of them seem to be doing much business, as was the case previously. Just a few metres down the road is another little bar which has recently opened up in place of a short lived shop and that seems to be doing very little business.

Opposite the now empty guesthouse/mini hotel, Suite Dreams, a new bar is being built, which is almost opposite a new bar which has just been built and has next to no customers in it. Just around the corner a little Thai restaurant has closed due to lack of business, this after it was previously another Thai restaurant which closed due to lack of business, and just opposite it is an almost defunct massage parlour and the lady owner is going to make......... guess........... a bar out of it because of lack of business.

This scenario is repeating itself all along Nanai Road with the previously named Beachhouse Bar, which closed due to falling patronage, now open again and is enjoying – – not a lot of patronage. And three other bars along that same stretch of road towards the north doing next to no business at all, and two of those have opened up after the other bars failed due to.......... lack of business!

Some of these are owned by Thais and some have farang backers, but no matter which, surely some commonsense has come into play here?

"Some of these are owned by Thais and some have farang backers" - correct. This area, with its small bars, salons etc has some foreigners buying in for their Thai girls, to give them "a job."

On that basis, they are not supposed to make a profit, just keep the girl out of the sex trade.

Little do these "farang backers" know the girl's endgame.

Don't know whether I'm right on this or not, but perhaps the landlords in places like Nanai Road are not doing too badly...........

I noticed that whenever some place shuts down, it's not long before something else takes its place, before that shuts down and something else pops up, and so on, so I don't suppose the landlords mind too much as long as they're getting some money, however what I can't understand is why people don't learn from the previous owner's mistakes/lack of business/poor positioning etc.

Near me in Soi Nanai 6, five little roller blind shops are now occupied, although four of them have changed hands at least once in a short space of time and I predict that it will happen again as none of them seem to be doing much business, as was the case previously. Just a few metres down the road is another little bar which has recently opened up in place of a short lived shop and that seems to be doing very little business.

Opposite the now empty guesthouse/mini hotel, Suite Dreams, a new bar is being built, which is almost opposite a new bar which has just been built and has next to no customers in it. Just around the corner a little Thai restaurant has closed due to lack of business, this after it was previously another Thai restaurant which closed due to lack of business, and just opposite it is an almost defunct massage parlour and the lady owner is going to make......... guess........... a bar out of it because of lack of business.

This scenario is repeating itself all along Nanai Road with the previously named Beachhouse Bar, which closed due to falling patronage, now open again and is enjoying – – not a lot of patronage. And three other bars along that same stretch of road towards the north doing next to no business at all, and two of those have opened up after the other bars failed due to.......... lack of business!

Some of these are owned by Thais and some have farang backers, but no matter which, surely some commonsense has come into play here?

"Some of these are owned by Thais and some have farang backers" - correct. This area, with its small bars, salons etc has some foreigners buying in for their Thai girls, to give them "a job."

On that basis, they are not supposed to make a profit, just keep the girl out of the sex trade.

Little do these "farang backers" know the girl's endgame.

Yes, I think that's true in some cases although in other cases these farangs actually live here so they can keep an eye on the girls anyway.

The situation here in Nanai Road hasn't changed much apart from the fact there are some more empty shops and the little beauty salon which had opened up in a roller blind shop at the end of Soi Nanai six has now closed, through lack of business I would suppose because I have only ever seen one person in there. Also a few more empty shops in Soi Nanai eight and Soi Banzaan.

Don't know what the latest stats with regard to hotel occupancy, however there are some little places in Nanai which are advertising rooms for rent at 9000 baht per month and one large hotel on the new Middle Road had a special on at 280 baht per night and a friend tried to check in and told me that the reception was absolutely full – – not surprising really.

If Patong is really dying, then it is hanging on to life with a vengeance because the Chinese tourists keep coming by the busloads and because of this Big C is experiencing an increase in profit over the same time last year, probably because that is the only thing which the prepaid tours can't accommodate!

Take out the Chinese tourists and the place would be almost bereft of tourists, although have noticed a few Russians and South Africans around the place and this was also evident when I hit Bangla Road a couple of times over the past week.

Having said that, many bars are struggling and even those which usually enjoy good patronage are noticing a decrease on many days, with one particular good and popular large bar having their band play to a total audience of about five on one evening!

And as one other poster has said, the prevalence of "ping-pong" touts is now annoying and they are desperate for business and one particular young lady tout I know, who always stops and chats to me, was elated because for the first time in ages she had managed to entice a small group of people into one of the go-go's and received her 500 baht commission for it. She said there have been many evenings when she doesn't pick up any money at all.

As for the restaurant industry, well I ate at Higher the other evening and it was about 30% full, then checked out my usual Italian restaurant in Soi Patong beach resort, but that has closed for a month or so (as he did last year) however the other Italian restaurants in that little strip had no more than a handful of people in total dining there.

The restaurant scene in Nanai Road hasn't changed much although Dons new bar had quite a few people in it on Saturday night, however it wouldn't take many customers for that place to look full given its new size and layout!

Still on restaurants, and why they keep coming and going, well when Jungceylon first opened, the Absolute Bar and Restaurant seemed to be reasonably well frequented until it didn't (GFC and other things prevailing) so it closed down due to the fact that it wasn't profitable, only to be replaced by a supposedly higher end Chinese restaurant, which recently closed due to lack of customers, only for that space to be currently undertaking renovations and which will shortly open as..........you guessed it, a restaurant, only a Japanese one this time.

Maybe, just maybe, Patong will never actually die (business-wise) because it is a magnet for people with dreams, who have no business acumen whatsoever, others who never do their research but have money to spend, and of course those who have found the love of their lives and wish to keep them occupied with something, oh and of course, those who are just plain stupid.

And on the tourist side of things, well they keep coming because it is getting cheaper to do so, however the decrease in spend will eventually keep the lid on any growth and of course the poor service provided by all and sundry will eventually tell and perhaps keep it as a low end tourist destination...........

Don't know whether I'm right on this or not, but perhaps the landlords in places like Nanai Road are not doing too badly...........

I noticed that whenever some place shuts down, it's not long before something else takes its place, before that shuts down and something else pops up, and so on, so I don't suppose the landlords mind too much as long as they're getting some money, however what I can't understand is why people don't learn from the previous owner's mistakes/lack of business/poor positioning etc.

Near me in Soi Nanai 6, five little roller blind shops are now occupied, although four of them have changed hands at least once in a short space of time and I predict that it will happen again as none of them seem to be doing much business, as was the case previously. Just a few metres down the road is another little bar which has recently opened up in place of a short lived shop and that seems to be doing very little business.

Opposite the now empty guesthouse/mini hotel, Suite Dreams, a new bar is being built, which is almost opposite a new bar which has just been built and has next to no customers in it. Just around the corner a little Thai restaurant has closed due to lack of business, this after it was previously another Thai restaurant which closed due to lack of business, and just opposite it is an almost defunct massage parlour and the lady owner is going to make......... guess........... a bar out of it because of lack of business.

This scenario is repeating itself all along Nanai Road with the previously named Beachhouse Bar, which closed due to falling patronage, now open again and is enjoying – – not a lot of patronage. And three other bars along that same stretch of road towards the north doing next to no business at all, and two of those have opened up after the other bars failed due to.......... lack of business!

Some of these are owned by Thais and some have farang backers, but no matter which, surely some commonsense has come into play here?

"Some of these are owned by Thais and some have farang backers" - correct. This area, with its small bars, salons etc has some foreigners buying in for their Thai girls, to give them "a job."

On that basis, they are not supposed to make a profit, just keep the girl out of the sex trade.

Little do these "farang backers" know the girl's endgame.

Yes, I think that's true in some cases although in other cases these farangs actually live here so they can keep an eye on the girls anyway.

The situation here in Nanai Road hasn't changed much apart from the fact there are some more empty shops and the little beauty salon which had opened up in a roller blind shop at the end of Soi Nanai six has now closed, through lack of business I would suppose because I have only ever seen one person in there. Also a few more empty shops in Soi Nanai eight and Soi Banzaan.

Don't know what the latest stats with regard to hotel occupancy, however there are some little places in Nanai which are advertising rooms for rent at 9000 baht per month and one large hotel on the new Middle Road had a special on at 280 baht per night and a friend tried to check in and told me that the reception was absolutely full – – not surprising really.

If Patong is really dying, then it is hanging on to life with a vengeance because the Chinese tourists keep coming by the busloads and because of this Big C is experiencing an increase in profit over the same time last year, probably because that is the only thing which the prepaid tours can't accommodate!

Take out the Chinese tourists and the place would be almost bereft of tourists, although have noticed a few Russians and South Africans around the place and this was also evident when I hit Bangla Road a couple of times over the past week.

Having said that, many bars are struggling and even those which usually enjoy good patronage are noticing a decrease on many days, with one particular good and popular large bar having their band play to a total audience of about five on one evening!

And as one other poster has said, the prevalence of "ping-pong" touts is now annoying and they are desperate for business and one particular young lady tout I know, who always stops and chats to me, was elated because for the first time in ages she had managed to entice a small group of people into one of the go-go's and received her 500 baht commission for it. She said there have been many evenings when she doesn't pick up any money at all.

As for the restaurant industry, well I ate at Higher the other evening and it was about 30% full, then checked out my usual Italian restaurant in Soi Patong beach resort, but that has closed for a month or so (as he did last year) however the other Italian restaurants in that little strip had no more than a handful of people in total dining there.

The restaurant scene in Nanai Road hasn't changed much although Dons new bar had quite a few people in it on Saturday night, however it wouldn't take many customers for that place to look full given its new size and layout!

Still on restaurants, and why they keep coming and going, well when Jungceylon first opened, the Absolute Bar and Restaurant seemed to be reasonably well frequented until it didn't (GFC and other things prevailing) so it closed down due to the fact that it wasn't profitable, only to be replaced by a supposedly higher end Chinese restaurant, which recently closed due to lack of customers, only for that space to be currently undertaking renovations and which will shortly open as..........you guessed it, a restaurant, only a Japanese one this time.

Maybe, just maybe, Patong will never actually die (business-wise) because it is a magnet for people with dreams, who have no business acumen whatsoever, others who never do their research but have money to spend, and of course those who have found the love of their lives and wish to keep them occupied with something, oh and of course, those who are just plain stupid.

And on the tourist side of things, well they keep coming because it is getting cheaper to do so, however the decrease in spend will eventually keep the lid on any growth and of course the poor service provided by all and sundry will eventually tell and perhaps keep it as a low end tourist destination...........

"Maybe, just maybe, Patong will never actually die (business-wise) because it is a magnet for people with dreams, who have no business acumen whatsoever, others who never do their research but have money to spend, and of course those who have found the love of their lives and wish to keep them occupied with something, oh and of course, those who are just plain stupid." - and this has worked well for Thai landlords and Thai prostitutes in the past, with farangs, but it will not work with the Chinese.

"And on the tourist side of things, well they keep coming because it is getting cheaper to do so" - for many businesses, just to survive, or minimize their losses, it's a race to the bottom. All the while, the TAT states they are targeting "high end tourists" for Phuket, which they promote as a "world class tourist destination."

Clearly, the tourism industry on Phuket has become dysfunctional.

I came back to Patong a couple of days ago, visiting from Chiang Mai, and after being away 6 months I was surprised how desperate things seem to be. I arrived about 2pm and the streets looked like they normally would at about 7am. Almost deserted. Fair bit of traffic but I think that's mostly down to the crappy road network. Almost zero pedestrians.

Friday night I ended up taking a stroll up Bangla. Talk about dead. Went into Tiger complex and aside from the front row of bars you could be forgiven for thinking it was shut. Significant number of bars were closed down and those that were open had virtually no customers, no dancers, many didn't seem to have even lights on. Really the worst I've ever seen it.

Called at a couple of gogo bars. Pretty quiet. Even Suzy Wongs. The side Sois were deathly quiet. Pretty depressing really. And this was Friday night. I know it's low season but I was living here this time last year and no way was it that bad.

I'm told that there's a new place called Patong Beach Club next to Banana Walk. Not been there yet but plan to go check it out. The air of desperation around Bangla coupled with the lack of atmosphere and being constantly clawed and pounced on as every bar tries to bag the few customers there are make the thought of going to Bangla for a night out at the moment a bit grim.

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I am due out tonight with a bunch of guys from NZ, so will see how it is...........didn't pay any attention to the "Tigers" when last out, so will have a look.

I came back to Patong a couple of days ago, visiting from Chiang Mai, and after being away 6 months I was surprised how desperate things seem to be. I arrived about 2pm and the streets looked like they normally would at about 7am. Almost deserted. Fair bit of traffic but I think that's mostly down to the crappy road network. Almost zero pedestrians.

Friday night I ended up taking a stroll up Bangla. Talk about dead. Went into Tiger complex and aside from the front row of bars you could be forgiven for thinking it was shut. Significant number of bars were closed down and those that were open had virtually no customers, no dancers, many didn't seem to have even lights on. Really the worst I've ever seen it.

Called at a couple of gogo bars. Pretty quiet. Even Suzy Wongs. The side Sois were deathly quiet. Pretty depressing really. And this was Friday night. I know it's low season but I was living here this time last year and no way was it that bad.

I'm told that there's a new place called Patong Beach Club next to Banana Walk. Not been there yet but plan to go check it out. The air of desperation around Bangla coupled with the lack of atmosphere and being constantly clawed and pounced on as every bar tries to bag the few customers there are make the thought of going to Bangla for a night out at the moment a bit grim.

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Went out last night with a bunch of reprobates from New Zealand and Australia (nine in all) and the situation did not seem as grim as that portrayed above, although some aspects were very true.

Bangla Road itself was busy enough for low season at around 10 p.m. but that "busyness" disappeared quite markedly after midnight. We ate in an Italian restaurant off Bangla and because of the size of our group, the place was about 70% full with a few other diners, however the Italian restaurant opposite had a mere two diners in it!

After dinner the group ventured out and I was a little disappointed that Smiley Bar was closed for alterations and Soi Freedom was also bereft of patrons, in fact it was all but deserted come midnight and part of that would have to be because the Filipino band were not playing so even the two bars closest to the band/stage had no customers.

The group wanted to go to a good go-go, so I took them to Harem and although it is probably one of the best in town at the moment, beers at 300 baht almost made the group walk out. However a general consensus prevailed and they stayed for a couple of drinks and and ogle at the stage show and the girls before heading off into the night. As it happens, one of the guys was keen on one of the girls and enquired as to the "bar fine" however he was a little shocked to learn that it would be 2600 baht!

Some of the guys went into resurrected Tiger and for all of the lights and glitter in the place that too was almost bereft of patrons, so they quickly departed without buying a drink.

By that time the group was fragmenting with some wanting to go back to the hotel and others wanting to explore other bars, however I ended up with four of them at a bar in Soi Sea Dragon and because they were a few good looking girls in the bar they stayed for some drinks and I bade them farewell after a couple and headed off to seek a motorbike taxi for my journey home.

The fact that Soi Freedom was all but empty was in a way quite frightening, mainly because it certainly means that many bar owners and the girls working in the bars, will be finding times very difficult, not to mention the fact that resurrected Tiger and new Tiger bar owners (and girls) must also be feeling the pinch knowing the amount of key money and rent that these bars paid/are paying.

It's often been said here that businesses have to "adapt or die" however, what do you do to change a beer bar, because its sole raison d'être is to serve beers/drink and entice punters in with pretty girls, even though the standards in that department have dropped quite markedly of late?

The days when small Sois full of beer bars and pretty girls were doing a roaring trade have long since disappeared and I don't think the likes of the original Tiger complex, which was often very busy even in low season, have ever been matched or surpassed. Certainly the busiest venues now in Bangla are those with live bands in them so perhaps they have a good future, however there is always one thing which Bangla does well and that is the feeling of "vibrancy" when you are actually in the place, but that alone does not ensure enough patronage of the beer bars to make them profitable any more.

The 300 bahts beer at harem gogo bar is such a rip off.

We went there and they showed us those prices, we were leaving then they told us us they have 99 baths singha light beer...

I guess the situation didn't look as grim when XP went out was because it was a different night.

I was out last night too. Better. But still crap. So I guess it'll just be down to what night you hit the town. Either you're lucky or you're not. Crap or very crap.

I'd agree on the standard of the girls though. Really dropped. As I've said before, not too much fun to the whole experience. Buy me drink? OK. Can I order two? And how about my friend? Sorry honey, this might come as a surprise but I'm not here to unload as many baht as I can on every girl that pops up. Times are hard. Sure. I understand that. But the much more hard edged business like approach coupled with the demanding nature of some of the workers makes it a much less enjoyable experience than it used to be.

I wondered if it was the bars that had girls that managed to balance their need to get money with the need of the customers to at least partially enjoy the interaction were the ones doing well.

In the end though. I think it's all just pot luck. Good night / crap night. Good bar / crap bar. Good service staff / crap.

The barfines in the Suzy Wongs group have for quite some time been dependant on the 'standard' of the girls. Normal is 1,000 IIRC and models (read taller, fake way overinflated boobs, and the REAL drink sharks) 2,600 with another rate in between of around 1,600 or so, again IIRC.

I've quite a few friends that bar fine the girls there often. Sadly, accounts of "I feel sick", "I'm drunk", "I got tummy ache", "my friend forget her key I need go let her in", seem to be getting more commonplace too. I guess in time the folks who get conned into giving them anything will adopt the same view as SOME of the girls. It's a business transaction, you didn't deliver the goods. Goodbye.

Long time back you never had to be quite so hard edged about it in my opinion as it rarely ever happened. These days, times have changed and some will try every trick in the book. And then some. While it can sometimes be distasteful to spell it out I often tell friends to be quite blunt about it. Spell out exactly what's expected and what they can expect to be paid for the company, and what to expect if they do a runner.

Sad, but the much more business like and mercenary approach of some of the girls has to be met with a much more business like approach from the customers if they want to avoid getting screwed over. It all adds to the whole feeling here I think. It's still possible to have a great time with some great company if you hit right place, right time, right person. What Patong has become though requires a bigger kit bag of precautionary measures too.

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Buy me drink? OK. Can I order two? And how about my friend?

Completely OT, but last night I was in a Thai karaokee in the back of beyond near Surat Thani.

'How much is a lady drink?' I asked.

'30 baht'

'How much is a bar fine?'

'What's a bar-fine? I go with you free'

The Morlum music was also good at only 5 baht a pop.

I noticed that Montes restaurant has closed and the building/land is either for lease or sale?

That restaurant seems to have been open forever even though the patronage had fallen off quite markedly over the past few years, although I suppose the lean years have finally caught up with them, unless anyone else knows differently?

I had always thought that Montes was in a 'poor' business location, yet it seemed to do well for many years. I noticed it was advertised for sale about a year + ago. No surprise to me that it is a now closed. Wrong wrong location.

Funny, that was the very first customer I landed back in 2005.

I'm guessing but I think the guy who ran the show, his name was/is Werner. They had a huge regular clientele, specials nights, drink specials, freelancers would be in there working the crowd, pretty happening back then.

Ownership change and the regulars stopped going. Drink specials stopped as not enough business to support, no regulars, no freelancers, place bottomed out.

Was in Patong over the weekend, and these comments only apply to Bangla road.

But I was taken aback by the sheer number of touts - hundreds of them along the entire road. As much as you try and ignore them and walk around them and push their drinks cards out of your way, they are really annoying.

Most of the front bars in the main complexes were busy but 2 or 3 deep it was dead dead. And just trying to decide on a bar to have a drink at you are hounded and prodded to go to bars. Not in any way relaxing.

Actually, the side streets were actually more busy, less pushy and fewer touts, but Bangla itself is best avoided.

Can't say it was much fun, and no desire to come back in a hurry.

Must be a lot of people losing a lot of money.

Yes, I think so

So, what do we have here in Patong these days............

The nightlife centre, Bangla Road, appears to appeal less and less to folks and this is not surprising because as already mentioned the go-go touts are too numerous to mention and they are bloody annoying.

The go-go venues are charging way over the top price for the drinks and the lady drinks are a rip-off

The bars are nowhere near as full as they used to be and that applies not only to the low season but in the past few high seasons and it is a good bet that many are losing money. In fact I know this to be the case because I know some bar owners. Not only that, if you do make your way to a bar, then one of the first things the girls will do is to ask you for a drink, without even striking up a conversation and then consume a small glass of watered-down orange juice which will cost you around 250 baht.

The one-way traffic system always was a headache, and it appears to be even worse now for some unknown reason and even with the building of the "new middle road" to ease congestion, it appears to only have added to it, this especially as there are long traffic queues at its junction. In the high season, the traffic backs up way past the dolphin roundabout and up towards Kamala, making the trip from Kamala to Patong for a night out to mean at least an hour waiting in traffic.

A few folk have had a good laugh about the "Phuket property market being a great place for investment.............. and so on" article in the Phuket Gazette, and if you specifically apply this to Patong, then investors should have an idea of what to expect when they look at the fiasco surrounding the ACE project, The Park project and quite a few other unfinished buildings around the place, not to mention those which have been for sale for years and the empty shops all around.

Also look at the number of units sold in recently completed projects should be a good pointer. A friend is renting an apartment in "The Deck" block and reckons that there would be less than 40% of them sold in total and I'm not sure about the numbers in "The Charm"? Not only that, the finish quality is absolutely abysmal in many apartment/condo blocks that I have seen and today I witnessed some shocking handiwork in an apartment in the "Art" apartment block. Surely a great place to invest your hard earned money – – yeah right!

The demographics have changed as has already been mentioned and we are now undergoing an invasion of Chinese, although it would appear that these folk do not add anything much at all to the income flowing into Patong, however the Big C supermarket are pleased that these folk are buying trolley loads of cheap dry goods, presumably to take back to China with them, because they also buy cheap suitcases and are always asking for large cardboard boxes in order to be able to pack their goods.

I wonder if these Chinese excursions are a bit like the ones that used to tempt a lot of English folk to take their cars from Dover to Calais to the duty-free supermarkets in France, wander around, have some lunch, select the items and load the car up ready for the trip back. Only then it was wine, cheeses, crystal glasses and some clothes and accessories – – a far cry from the packets of dried noodles and seaweed which seem to fill the trolleys up here in Patong.

It could be argued that these people are the "saviours" of Patong, however I don't think so because they don't spend a lot and they certainly do not avail themselves of the manners or common sense that would make them welcome. In fact just a couple of days ago I had to stand over a pack of about seven Chinese people in Starbucks because they were making such a noise that it was totally uncomfortable and impossible to focus on anything to do with a conversation or even read the paper. So I stood over them and shouted at the top of my voice, "Why don't you f@*king well shut up".

Well they stopped, in fact the whole of Starbucks became very quiet and I noticed many eyes sheepishly looking my way and it was so quiet you could hear a pin drop! Someone in this group spoke English and said they were sorry and lowered their voices, whilst everybody else in the place also quietened down somewhat.

When the noisy bunch had left and everything had quietened down, one of the Starbucks ladies congratulated me because they are also tired of the unruly behaviour and noise, not to mention the bad manners, of these tourists.

That leads on quite nicely to exactly what we have got now.............a place for rip-offs, poor infrastructure and poorly constructed buildings (add Jungceylon to that), shady property investment schemes/scams and just the sort of place which attracts cheap low-end tourists.

It seems as if Patong has got just exactly what it deserves, which is a shame for the expats who live here, because a lot of these people would say that they deserve better. Or to put it another way, perhaps paradise lost.

The tout/puller/acts situation on main street has reached stupid levels. not only do you have the ping pong guys in ever increasing numbers, but now most clubs have 10 plus touts, most front row bars have them now (and going further and further out into the street), hell in front of Monsoon i counted 15 other night. Most nights now after 1am there are more touts and pullers than actual punters walking.

In early night it's even worse, not only do you have more punters waling around, but you have all the street shows.

One night walking down it was, Cabaret Lady boys with big crowd taking photo's blocking entrance, bit further down magic man with big crowd blocking street, next Dance boys with big crowd blocking street, Margarita bar with the hanging challenge with big crowd blocking street and opposite them the VR booths with same, then further down another group of dance boys again blocking the street. And in middle of this Tai Pan trying to do their little nightly parade down.

Ain't much of a walking street if you cannot bloody walk it.

The ping pong tours need to be banished (to use a goverment line, they are running a scam that hurts Thailands reputation and tourism), bar pullers kept behind a line and they need to set up area down by beach for all these shows and make them permanent fixture

It's funny. I moved out about 6 months ago. Thought I'd try Chiang Mai. After about 6 months I thought oh oh. Did I do the right thing? Maybe I'll go back to Phuket. Not sure. Then I went to visit again.

Before I used to hang out at Surin a lot. Really liked Catch Club but also had Bimi and Zazada. Being out there I'd often hit Bliss for happy hour (BOGOF) at 5 pm. Now, Surin is absolute shi#e. Bulldozed to make it look the way it did the last time they had visiting dignitaries. Great. Good plan. But that was what, 50 years ago. Beach sure looks good now. Provided you keep your eyes away from the rubble they've yet to clear. No customers either. Nothing. Squat.

So, the owners of Catch open up a new place at Kamala. HQ Lounge. Looks OK. Except it's new, not known about. Dead as a Dodo. And, unlike Catch, it has no catchment area around it to attract customers. You either know about HQ and plan to go there or you don't. Most don't. No foot traffic, little by way of random drive in and a crap restaurant that's not a patch on Catch, looks crap too.

Which, unless you opt for the wannabe Patong places like Karon / Kata, or the deathly hallows of Chalong and Rawai, leaves - Patong. Having spent a week in it again recently ANY plans or thoughts I might have had to go back are binned for sure. Bangla for me is the absolute pits these days. If I was looking for that type of night out I'd sooner hit BKK (and even that is far cheaper with a much better array of good restaurants) or even Patts. And those touts I agree are so annoying, combined with the bleedin street artists. Jeez. Even walking up Bangla is an effort, coupled with the 'SO DESPERATE for customers' clawing in the side sois and the Thai model to deal with fewer customers - oh yeah, let's jack the prices up! I mean - seriously? SERIOUSLY? Just WHAT is on offer here that anyone would want to buy????

At one point I thought maybe I missed Phuket a bit. Trouble is, even in 6 months, its good points have been eroded even further and Patong has nose dived even further. Now, no way. Biggest problem for me with Patong was that there was never anywhere decent to go for a relaxing drink / sundowner with a partner. Just BANG BANG BANG concrete beer bars and coyote haunts. But it was still OK. Before, you could head out of town and go to some nice chillax places. Now? Nah, let's bulldoze them. So there's f all of any quality IN Patong and now, f all of any quality outside it. Sure there might be the odd place around. But if it's crap, it's on yer bike or get in the car and drive somewhere else. Or take one of Phuket's great VFM taxis.

Even tonight. Went out to a local Thai style bar in Chiang Mai. Quiet night. Maybe 15 PR / Hostess girls working. All stunning. Took a bottle of Regency in as I'd been out to eat earlier. Sat chatting to the owner for couple of hours. Bought 3 drinks for the girls I chat to there, couple of hours great company, check bin - 405 baht!!! OK you need to speak Thai to go there and they wouldn't be interested in tourists I guess, but, in Patong. Yah, the attraction now is what exactly? Really the pits as I see it. I'd take BKK over Patong any time for party times. And visit Phuket for any other reason? Pass.

It's funny. I moved out about 6 months ago. Thought I'd try Chiang Mai. After about 6 months I thought oh oh. Did I do the right thing? Maybe I'll go back to Phuket. Not sure. Then I went to visit again.

Before I used to hang out at Surin a lot. Really liked Catch Club but also had Bimi and Zazada. Being out there I'd often hit Bliss for happy hour (BOGOF) at 5 pm. Now, Surin is absolute shi#e. Bulldozed to make it look the way it did the last time they had visiting dignitaries. Great. Good plan. But that was what, 50 years ago. Beach sure looks good now. Provided you keep your eyes away from the rubble they've yet to clear. No customers either. Nothing. Squat.

So, the owners of Catch open up a new place at Kamala. HQ Lounge. Looks OK. Except it's new, not known about. Dead as a Dodo. And, unlike Catch, it has no catchment area around it to attract customers. You either know about HQ and plan to go there or you don't. Most don't. No foot traffic, little by way of random drive in and a crap restaurant that's not a patch on Catch, looks crap too.

Which, unless you opt for the wannabe Patong places like Karon / Kata, or the deathly hallows of Chalong and Rawai, leaves - Patong. Having spent a week in it again recently ANY plans or thoughts I might have had to go back are binned for sure. Bangla for me is the absolute pits these days. If I was looking for that type of night out I'd sooner hit BKK (and even that is far cheaper with a much better array of good restaurants) or even Patts. And those touts I agree are so annoying, combined with the bleedin street artists. Jeez. Even walking up Bangla is an effort, coupled with the 'SO DESPERATE for customers' clawing in the side sois and the Thai model to deal with fewer customers - oh yeah, let's jack the prices up! I mean - seriously? SERIOUSLY? Just WHAT is on offer here that anyone would want to buy????

At one point I thought maybe I missed Phuket a bit. Trouble is, even in 6 months, its good points have been eroded even further and Patong has nose dived even further. Now, no way. Biggest problem for me with Patong was that there was never anywhere decent to go for a relaxing drink / sundowner with a partner. Just BANG BANG BANG concrete beer bars and coyote haunts. But it was still OK. Before, you could head out of town and go to some nice chillax places. Now? Nah, let's bulldoze them. So there's f all of any quality IN Patong and now, f all of any quality outside it. Sure there might be the odd place around. But if it's crap, it's on yer bike or get in the car and drive somewhere else. Or take one of Phuket's great VFM taxis.

Even tonight. Went out to a local Thai style bar in Chiang Mai. Quiet night. Maybe 15 PR / Hostess girls working. All stunning. Took a bottle of Regency in as I'd been out to eat earlier. Sat chatting to the owner for couple of hours. Bought 3 drinks for the girls I chat to there, couple of hours great company, check bin - 405 baht!!! OK you need to speak Thai to go there and they wouldn't be interested in tourists I guess, but, in Patong. Yah, the attraction now is what exactly? Really the pits as I see it. I'd take BKK over Patong any time for party times. And visit Phuket for any other reason? Pass.

Concur with your sentiments here regarding Patong. I found CM a wee bit of a yawn after a week but outside of the main berg there are still some charming places and folk and agree that being able to speak some Thai can oil the wheels for sure. I know an American hotel owner in Patong whose been there 10+ years and married to a Thai; I asked him if he spoke Thai and through gritted teeth he growled “No…and just as well for her”. Fair enough.

Touts!!! When the son of a former major controls the (Zones) on Bangla it's going to be a long time before we see any changes there I'm afraid to say!!

they wouldn't be interested in tourists

555...yeah, ok.

they wouldn't be interested in tourists

555...yeah, ok.

Have you ever been to Chiang Mai? The difficulties for tourists to hook up are quite well known. Anyone coming here looking for Patong style action is WAY better going to Phuket, Pattaya or BKK. I certainly wouldn't waste the time or money in CM. It's just NOTHING like Patong. Chances MIGHT be improved for those who can speak Thai.

Tourist pull options are generally limited to Loi Kro (and you'd need to be desperate to bother there), the highly dodgy karaoke joints or maybe some of the working or "side line" girls that work out of Zoe or Spicy. Outside of that there really is zero interest from the girls in tourists. Even in central places like Oxide and T Bar, I've only ever seen westerners in there once this year. Why? Nobody but nobody speaks English. Most girls are not working in the Patong sense and I've not met one that can speak ANY English at all. Zero.

But of course, as with anywhere, tourists are welcome to try. Good luck with that. For me, if I didn't live here, Chiang Mai would be below last on my list if I was looking for anything remotely like Patong. 5-7 years ago it was MUCH better. Easier. More choice. But with 12 o'clock shut downs, clamp downs and bar closures, it's had the soul torn out of it in that regard.

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