Should I go all in on learning to read, or continue with verbal only?

[hansomman]

I'm a beginner to Thai. I've been doing the Pimsiler conversational Thai CD's. I recently subscribed to Thaipod101 ( a huge collection of Thai lessons ) and purchased Thai for Begginers by Benjawan Poomsan Becker.

I'm wondering if I should continue with just verbal Thai, or if I should focus in on learning to read Thai and then pick up the verbals after I can understand and read Thai script. I've seen a ton of people say learning to read first helps a lot more than learning by verbal only. I'm curious what those on here who can speak at least decently think I should do.

[AyG]

Why can't you do both at the same time? The skills support each other.

[sfokevin]

If I had it to do over again I would have learned to read/write at the very beginning... You get a more precise feel for the tones and sounds required to speak clearly... It can prevent some bad pronunciation habit that will be difficult to break in the future...

[Smokin Joe]

If I had it to do over again I would have learned to read/write at the very beginning... You get a more precise feel for the tones and sounds required to speak clearly... It can prevent some bad pronunciation habit that will be difficult to break in the future...

Agree 100%. If you want to learn more than just a few words and phrases learning the Thai alphabet is a big help with pronunciation.

[KhunBENQ]

Learn the script. Learn to read. Reading is essential.

Independent of daily conversation it helps you to "handle" the language in different circumstances.

Nice to be able to type some text from a letter/bill/signboard/menu and look it up.

In this process you will improve your vocabulary, less need to type and look up.

Nice to be able to fill in a form with your name (in English) and your address in Thai.

And so on, and so on.

[kokesaat]

If you want to be understood when you speak, learn to read/write. Otherwise, how will you know how to pronounce Suvarnaphumi? Read today's Andrew Biggs column in the Bangkok Post.....search google for 'Biggs What's in a name?'

If you don't learn to read Thai early on, you'll have to unlearn all your wrong pronunciations later on.

[Baa_Mango]

If you want to successfully speak and understand - learn to read.

Doesn't mean to shut everything else down though, just start learning, if you are consistent the blocks really start to fall into place.

[aircut]

Avoid being illiterate....

In the place you were born or chosen to live in

[p_brownstone]

Not being pretentious (or contentious!) I can really never understand why many long-term Expats in Thailand show little or no interest in learning to at least READ the language (writing, I think, is somewhat less important but still very useful).

You miss SO much by not being able to read - simple things like reading a Menu, Street signs, Shop signs - even the little witticisms scrawled on the back of pickups and trucks - all the way down to more important things like reading official documents, Email enquiries from Customers etc. etc..

To me it would seem like being half-blind in the Country.

Certainly it can seem a daunting challenge, a totally different alphabet being the most obvious, however it's not nearly as difficult as it first appears - I actually taught myself to read Thai when I first came here, never took a single lesson because my first job involved traveling up-country at least 2 weeks per month therefore I simply had no time for formal lessons, so I used the time on the road; if I knew that the next town was, say, Lopburi (VERY few road signs in English back then) so I would look at the Thai sign and work out the Thai letters and match them with "Lopburi" for example; good intellectual exercise to stave off boredom.

Actually this system worked great until I came back to Bangkok and tried to morph "Bangkok" in English to " กรุงเทพมหานคร "!

Patrick

[sfokevin]

^^^ By Thaivisa standards you are not being the least bit contentious... And I agree you miss out on a lot that is gong on around you...

That being said I have a great fear of being so proficient as to understand what is going on in those TV soap operas my Thai partner watches at night... :-)

[Aforek]

Not being pretentious (or contentious!) I can really never understand why many long-term Expats in Thailand show little or no interest in learning to at least READ the language (writing, I think, is somewhat less important but still very useful).

You miss SO much by not being able to read - simple things like reading a Menu, Street signs, Shop signs - even the little witticisms scrawled on the back of pickups and trucks - all the way down to more important things like reading official documents, Email enquiries from Customers etc. etc..

To me it would seem like being half-blind in the Country.

Certainly it can seem a daunting challenge, a totally different alphabet being the most obvious, however it's not nearly as difficult as it first appears - I actually taught myself to read Thai when I first came here, never took a single lesson because my first job involved traveling up-country at least 2 weeks per month therefore I simply had no time for formal lessons, so I used the time on the road; if I knew that the next town was, say, Lopburi (VERY few road signs in English back then) so I would look at the Thai sign and work out the Thai letters and match them with "Lopburi" for example; good intellectual exercise to stave off boredom.

Actually this system worked great until I came back to Bangkok and tried to morph "Bangkok" in English to " กรุงเทพมหานคร "!

Patrick

I agree 100% with this ; dozen of times every day I have to read thai in the streets, shops etc and I am so glad to understand what is written ! I wouldn't accept to be blind in my adopted country

[kokesaat]

Back when I first started learning Thai......not reading yet....I went to Bangkok, guns loaded with vocabulary to make my traveling there stress free. I got in a cab and told the driver I wanted to go to Rama 4 (รามา ๔ ) I told him Ra-ma see. He looked at me cross eyed and I finally had to show him a map of where I wanted to go.

It was only after a few trips to Bangkok that I realized the name of the road isn't at all Ra-ma. It's Phra-raam. Learn to read, learn to read, learn to read.

By the way, I doubt many foreigners would pronounce the name correctly if the only thing they based it on was "PHRA RAAM".

[Johpa]

Learn to read, learning the Thai alphabet is not that difficult.

[timmyp]

I've got nothing new to say, so I'll just post to add to the weight of what everyone else has already said.

Definitely learn to read and write! You will be very glad you did!

Yes, it can be a bit of a challenge, but it's not that hard.

[garyinhuahin]

To start with, don't do Pimsleur for Thai. It is full of mistakes. Blatant ones. I'm serious. It won't just waste your time, it will set you back!

The books, CDs, and software of Paiboon publishing are to be recommended.

For me, I found it much easier to learn to read than to speak and comprehend. The words sit there on the page and I can take all the time I want to work it out. Knowing the writing system will also clarify and lot of distinctions of words that sound the same (to us) but are actually quite different. For example, there are something like 32 different words, with very different meanings, that could all be romanized as 'sai'.

[Minnehaha]

If you want to be understood when you speak, learn to read/write. Otherwise, how will you know how to pronounce Suvarnaphumi? Read today's Andrew Biggs column in the Bangkok Post.....search google for 'Biggs What's in a name?'

If you don't learn to read Thai early on, you'll have to unlearn all your wrong pronunciations later on.

his Thai accent is the weirdest Auzzie-Thai accent I have ever heard. I know he is well known and a pro and his fluency level is outstanding. But to my ears, I have difficulty with his Thai. His English pronunciation is marginally better

And yes, definitely learn to read. writing is less important. also, it can be done easily once you have a certain level of fluency and can read fairly well. The way to learn to write is to learn to type in Thai. There are cd roms to do this - it just takes time on the computer. Same as English.

[AyG]

For example, there are something like 32 different words, with very different meanings, that could all be romanized as 'sai'.

32? Really. I could only think of 19 (ซ้าย, ไซ, ไซ้, ไซซ์, ไซด์,ไซต์, ไซท์, ไซน์, ไซร้, ทราย, ไทร, สาย, ส่าย, ใส, ใส่, ไส, ไส้, ไสย, ไสร้). Which ones am I missing?

[GarryP]

Not being pretentious (or contentious!) I can really never understand why many long-term Expats in Thailand show little or no interest in learning to at least READ the language (writing, I think, is somewhat less important but still very useful).

You miss SO much by not being able to read - simple things like reading a Menu, Street signs, Shop signs - even the little witticisms scrawled on the back of pickups and trucks - all the way down to more important things like reading official documents, Email enquiries from Customers etc. etc..

To me it would seem like being half-blind in the Country.

Certainly it can seem a daunting challenge, a totally different alphabet being the most obvious, however it's not nearly as difficult as it first appears - I actually taught myself to read Thai when I first came here, never took a single lesson because my first job involved traveling up-country at least 2 weeks per month therefore I simply had no time for formal lessons, so I used the time on the road; if I knew that the next town was, say, Lopburi (VERY few road signs in English back then) so I would look at the Thai sign and work out the Thai letters and match them with "Lopburi" for example; good intellectual exercise to stave off boredom.

Actually this system worked great until I came back to Bangkok and tried to morph "Bangkok" in English to " กรุงเทพมหานคร "!

Patrick

Agree with this. This is how I taught myself to read Thai by reading signs and bus destinations. What I can't agree with from the other posts is that if you do not learn to read and write your pronunciation will never be very good. This is simply not true. Everyone is different. I learned to speak by total immersion, taught myself to read, but I cannot write (I wish I had learned). I cannot name all the letters in the Thai alphabet and do not know the names of the tonal values, or which symbol means which tone etc. but I am able to translate a variety of documents, including court judgments, from Thai to English. But ask me to write the word dog in Thai and I would get it wrong. However, my spoken Thai is very advanced.

[aree2]

I can read and write slowly - but oh so slowly I feel. It's those long thai sentences with all the words run together - no gaps - that defeat me. I tell friends I can't really read Thai - I can only decode it. If anyone knows of a way to help make Thai words leap off the page the way words in our own languages do, I'd be glad to hear of it.

The Linguaphone course that I used to start learning Thai suggested using a fine pencil to make vertical strokes between the words as you read (=decode) them. Is that still the best thing to do?

[squarethecircle]

The alphabet's actually kind of simple. For 20 baht at the bookshop you can get the "Go Gai Ko Kai" children's books at the bookstore. Pay someone or trade them with English lessons to help you go through them. It will take you a couple of weeks at most of daily hourly study and then you'll be set with the basics, there are some "exceptions" and more complicated things with the tone marks but the pay-off is big.

Contrast it with Mandarin which I'm also studying, at least Thai has an alphabet/letters (linguists call it something different), the Chinese characters are much more to memorize.

[asdecas]

Agree with many others here, learn to read - and write too, if you can handle the workload - in parallel with improving your fluency; the process of learning to read is a revelation which enhances spoken ability no end.

Another suggestion, if you have a smartphone: once you have the reading and writing basics, install a Thai keyboard on your phone, plus a good Thai-English-Thai dictionary.

ทั้งหมดพจนานุกรมภาษาอังกฤษ (in Play Store) is a good one, but it requires online access. There are other, simpler, downloadable ones that do not require a connection. Learn your way around the Thai keyboard, then you'll be able to look up words that you see around you every day.

[Luxfare]

I've just signed up for both, 8hrs a week speaking and 2 hrs reading and writing. The place I'm going said they compliment eachother so who am I to argue.

[domdom]

Hi

I respect all what you say.. but I don't feel like learning to write and read.. I just want to be able to communicate with people and speaking 4/5 languages I pick up quite easily the accent..

I am looking for a teacher who would help me out going on learning phonetic thai in Pattaya (I completed the book "assimil" and a second book doesn't exist).. In case I saw someone talking about an english method.. Is it available in Thailand and does it have several steps which could still improve my current level ?

Thanks

Best regards

[Jungle Jim]

I am happy to see that at least your making an effort to learn the language unlike the majority of foreigners that have lived here for years and can not even count to five in Thai. I would agree that learning to read and write is a far better way to learn. Not that it is wrong to at least making an effort to speak. The majority of foreigners living here make any effort to learn depending solely on their so called bar girl girlfriends or wife to care for them in every way. We all should know the outcome of that far to common horror story. My best advise is do not be afraid to learn and what ever process works best for you try it. No two people learn the same way. Having said that i am tired of foreigners bitching about how old they are and a hundred other excuses as to why they are unwilling to learn. As one dumb newbie drunk with bar girl said to me the other day when i asked why he was unwilling to learn. "I have her to take care of everything" Less than two weeks after meeting her in a bar in Pattaya the old used up hag that was living in a shed was covered in gold. The moral of the story is ,if you plan to live here and want far fewer problems learn to speak Thai.

[Jungle Jim]

Yes. there is no reason why you could not learn to improve speaking alone.

Hi

I respect all what you say.. but I don't feel like learning to write and read.. I just want to be able to communicate with people and speaking 4/5 languages I pick up quite easily the accent..

I am looking for a teacher who would help me out going on learning phonetic thai in Pattaya (I completed the book "assimil" and a second book doesn't exist).. In case I saw someone talking about an english method.. Is it available in Thailand and does it have several steps which could still improve my current level ?

Thanks

Best regards

[TheRascal]

I love reading Thai (I'm still learning) and can only agree with what's been said above. So many things are badly transliterated that you will get misunderstood if you stay here for any amount of time.

I started with a book called "Thai - Reading for Speaking" by Darryl Sweetland (it's thai flag coloured and you can pick it up in Kinokinuya in Siam Paragon) and it's a great intro. I then downloaded Anki and created a deck to learn the alphabet along with all the classes of the consonants. I've now also got a Thai tutor and we read kids books for a while every week.

Practising writing is really helping me remember vocab correctly too as I find I learn best that way.

[Jungle Jim]

Lonely Planet is by far the worst. What a joke. Had some tourists trying to speak Thai to me out of that God awful book. As i often suggest take that book and burn it. Always can tell a newbie doing the LP spin as they are trying to read one of the maps to their over priced and crappy guesthouse.

To start with, don't do Pimsleur for Thai. It is full of mistakes. Blatant ones. I'm serious. It won't just waste your time, it will set you back!

The books, CDs, and software of Paiboon publishing are to be recommended.

For me, I found it much easier to learn to read than to speak and comprehend. The words sit there on the page and I can take all the time I want to work it out. Knowing the writing system will also clarify and lot of distinctions of words that sound the same (to us) but are actually quite different. For example, there are something like 32 different words, with very different meanings, that could all be romanized as 'sai'.

[domdom]

Thanks Jungle Jim..

Being a 61 years old female, I don't have a thai girl friend to translate for me..

To tell you the truth I totally agree with you.. I don't want to live in a country without being able to speak with people.. I have been living in Thailand 15 years ago for 4 years (left exactly 10 years ago).. I had taken courses in a school (phonetic type) and was able to go for basic conversations.. I forgot quite a lot.. but was surprised to see that with my book I could remember quite a lot of things... Being french I have a bad experience of old french even unable to speak one word of english and I was tired when having dinner, being asked to translate in english or thai the silly french jokes they were telling, as their girl friends couldn't pick up a word of french.. Really disrespect being all talking french when the locals stay there as idiots, not understanding a word..

So, here we go, I began to learn again.. and I came to understand lots of things my teacher had not been able to explain at that time.. (difference for example between ru or may).. when to use khao, man thaan etc... She just used to tell me... depends what you want to say.. which was not really helpfull.. So if anybody knows a good teacher speaking good english and able to help me out improving, as I finished my book and no other book follows this one..

Could also I imagine buy a phonetic dictionnary and learn, as I now know the basic grammar rules..

Anyway, it is good to learn and I think at my age, even better, helps keeping mind in its place... For the time being I still remember where my book is when I look for it and I remember the vocabulary I learn... So far, so good...

Have a nice day

[chondan]

I can only say that when I came to Thailand, there were no, signs. I was trained to speak and not to read. but after awhile you need the reading. Wow. 1972 there were signs in Thai on the highways. It helps you, if you are going the wrong.way. As far as I am concerned, if you plan to live in Thailand, it is your responsibility to learn a little Thai. "I am too old. bullshit!" It is called lazy. You want to be a lazy ass? Be one. It does not take much effort to learn a little Thai.

[Acharn]

It's really best if you can learn to read Thai. I've learned Mandarin Chinese, Thai, and Moroccan Arabic using "romanization," writing the sounds with Latin characters, but you need a teacher who can make you understand that the letters don't stand for the same sounds as they would in English. Some sounds in Thai simply can't be written in Latin letters because they don't occur in English. The old Usenet site soc.culture.thai developed a phonetic system because it was started before email could handle 8-bit characters. You're often going to have ambiguities unless you can see the Thai spelling.

I learned to read based on a book called "The Thai Writing System" by Mary R. Haas. If you can get a copy I highly recommend it for learning the alphabet and getting a feel for what letters can go together and how the sounds cnange when the letter comes at the beginning or end of a syllable. Then with another book called "Thai Reader" by Mary R. Haas you can practice using that knowledge to both learn to read an add to your vocabulary. Trouble is both books were published in about 1950. Ms Haas was a linguist who had been studying Navajo and was tapped by the War Department to study Thai for the Special Languages Program. She did a brilliant job and later returned to the States and taught Thai, I believe a Stanford.

The very old and badly worn copies I have were published by the American Council of Learned Societies, Washington, D.C.

I find a link for Thai System of Writing at http://www.amazon.com/Thai-System-Writing-Mary-Haas/dp/0879502665

Thai Reader is at http://www.amazon.com/Thai-Reader-Mary-Haas/dp/0879502649

There's also a link to Thai Reader at www.seasite.niu.edu/thai/thaireader/frameset.htm I recognize seasite as a nice site for learning Thai, but this link looks like very old HTML so it's probably not being maintained.

Both books were written using an old IBM electric with the "golf ball" type head, but the type face is readable. I have Ms. Becker's Advanced Reader and based on that would expect her basic reader is good. More readable because she had better tools available and I think Ms. Haas conveys more information. Try to spend fifteen to thirty minutes a day on it. Too much and you'll overload and the result will be poorer. Take advantage of your oral lessons to get a feel for what sounds are used in Thai. I learned to read while I was back in the States with no Thai speakers around but it worked well enough because I remembered the words and sentences I had learned here.