Ducati Monster 821, Yamaha MT 09, Kawasaki Z 800 Which one?

[ALFREDO]

There's no NEEDS for many things each and every one of us have, however there's always WANTS.

OP wants a bigger bike and that is fine too, no need to advocate getting a smaller bike based on needs.

Exactly, if I didn't have family commitments, I would likely had something with a D on the tank and not a K

For getting the big Fun factor, you need HP, lots of HP, and the real fun begins North of 100HP.

After I tried a Hyperstrada I was grinning from ear to ear, not so much on my V650 but I am smiling though.

Some dudes can never enough HP and some can settle on less.

You completely right,

BUT, Thailand and my EU home country are two completely different pair of shoes.

I would never have ridden a Honda CBR 400 R in the EU, could have never kept up with my buddies either,

Very different circumstances now here in Thailand.

[ALFREDO]

As this thread is extending to several pages, I think we need to open a poll to help Alfredo make his mind up.

I go with a Street Triple (even though I ride an MT-09) - sounds like Alfredo dont need the power of the Dark Side but the ace handling of the Street Triple.

Maybe Alredo surprises us all and says the hell with bikes and buys himself a Ferrari instead!

Sorry, not possble.

I think, with the Ferrari prices here in TH . I would not hesitate to buy any bike, if I would have that Ferrrari option, careless how much it costs, with heavy duty or not.

Cannot even afford the red Cayman Porsche (Central Udon Thani) and had to drive away with my green grasshopper behind, my EU-Glory Days are over.

[ALFREDO]

Yes sure there are many factors to weigh in when buying a bike.

1: How much can/will you spend?

2: See above.

3: see item 1

4: see item 1

5: see item 1

So as you can see, very easy.

On a more serious note, it will be difficult to try above bikes in Thailand, perhaps the Ducati will be the most easy to do a test on but doubt the Yamaha mt09 or Kawa can be test ridden anywhere but are not 100% sure.

Of the 3 bikes, I will also rule out the Z800 despite being a Kawa owner myself, too heavy and no abs, but you can get a 2nd hand one cheap and not loosing too much money if you sell it a year later, so perhaps not such a bad idea after all, getting a Z800 if you buy 2nd hand.

Hmm.

Ducati - testride only around a city pond - I declined.

BUT, maybe I try it, did anyway never drive a Ducati

I have the option for a Kawasaki z800 second hand, with really small miles

and alrady with some changed (exhaust) or new bought parts.

Sure, is that a big price difference to a new Ducati. Only that bike is far away.

[DILLIGAD]

I think there are quite a few owners selling them, Alfredo. I know of 2 just in my locality.

[ALFREDO]

Of the 3 mentioned in OP, the best way would be to test ride them all and if no yest rides available, he can rent each bike for a day to get a good feel of them. Why make your decision based on what forum users say about the bikes? Everyone has different likes and preferences.

As someone else mentioned, Ducati will sound good at the higher RPM, not when it's idling.

Will try to testride, did one ride already.

Wil make my decision not on forum users opinion, but I read them.

I let the Ducati 821 run warm, a bit and than I gave some throttle, BUT, I heared not what I hoped to hear.

[guzzi850m2]

Yes getting a cheap Z800 should be quite easy but be aware of damaged bikes due to accidents.

I know a guy in Pattaya and his son crashed his Z800 (hit a pot hole going like a mad) and damaged it for app 100k baht and 50K baht hospitals bills.

[ALFREDO]

Go big or not at all is what I think.

So I'd get the Ducati.

A CB300F is all you need, but you should get what you want.

Or just get something to tide you over until a bike you really want comes along.

The fact that you are choosing between 3 bikes means you don't really want any of them.

If you really wanted a particular bike this thread would not exist because you'd be riding whatever already.

The money does not easy run out of my pockets.

Kawasaki z800, if not so heavy, my first choice from available bikes without high Import taxes.

Triumph Street triple came up now, good light, but pricey, than, for same price, better the Ducati?

I would go for a 600 or 750 cc Sportbike, but that is not produced in TH. So, I choose more slowly.

[ALFREDO]

Then the CBR650 was announced. I decided immediately that was the bike I really wanted. I liked the engine setup, riding position, and factory colors. Never even cared to test drive it first and eventually just bought one with no questions really asked.

Hmm, the Honda CBR 650 and CB 650-naked version, would also be a possibility for me,

sat on them at an avertising show day in Central Udon Thani.

It seems you know that bike well, but you promoted more the Kawasaki 650. Surprised.

[ALFREDO]

Not necessarily true, just like the OP I wanted something 800 cc or above when I started looking for a new bike, wasn't sure which one but I new it had to be above 800. The 3 bikes OP is looking at were in the list of bikes that I have considered too.

Ended up getting something completely different altogether but that's a different story.

What?

[ALFREDO]

I was after a Japanese inline 4 litre bike. Didn't buy one after 3 years of looking as none of them really did it for me. Never seriously considered a Ducati before, I'd read all the usual horror stories from people who never owned one. Then I went to the motor show in Bang Na and saw the Panigale 899 from around 100 metres away.

Things turned to slow motion, a soft focus surrounded me as I ran across the showroom floor with my arms outstretched and became vaguely aware of some cheesy background music. My girlfriend looked on in the background with a jealous glint in her eye as I told the salesgirl to shut up and take my money.

Sometimes you just know.

Lucky bastard, with deep pockets.

[ALFREDO]

Yes getting a cheap Z800 should be quite easy but be aware of damaged bikes due to accidents.

I know a guy in Pattaya and his son crashed his Z800 (hit a pot hole going like a mad) and damaged it for app 100k baht and 50K baht hospitals bills.

A testride can show if something is suspicious, if the bike only slithered-slid, without hitting something or did not catapulted itself in the air, fell from some height, does not have hiiden flaws, so still runs straight, its ok to.

[Shurup]

OP how far are you from Korat (Nakhon Ratchasima)? They have a Ducati, Kawasaki and a Yamaha dealers there and not very far from each other. Also Ducati here lets you take their bikes for a real test ride, they're located right on a highway just outside the city so you test ride their bikes on Highway.

[Shurup]

Not necessarily true, just like the OP I wanted something 800 cc or above when I started looking for a new bike, wasn't sure which one but I new it had to be above 800. The 3 bikes OP is looking at were in the list of bikes that I have considered too.

Ended up getting something completely different altogether but that's a different story.

What?

Diavel

[ALFREDO]

OP how far are you from Korat (Nakhon Ratchasima)? They have a Ducati, Kawasaki and a Yamaha dealers there and not very far from each other. Also Ducati here lets you take their bikes for a real test ride, they're located right on a highway just outside the city so you test ride their bikes on Highway.

About 320 km.

But, Yamaha is in Khon Kaen to, according to their Website. More near. Possibly, I come there again anyway.

Can check.

Will give Ducati at least the lagoon ride chance in the next days, or tomorrow.

And if I catch a cheap flight, I am in 2+ hours in Phuket, visit friends and check out the second hand Kawa there. If still available.

[onlycw]

The Monster looks cool - but I'd consider the Scrambler... Servicing will be way more expensive. Timing belt changes, desmodromic and all. A German dealer quoted about 20,000 Baht for a service!

Weight matters - if you will ride it in the mountains.

[Shurup]

Comparing the water cooled monster and air cooled scrambler, the 1st one will have X2 longer servicing intervals than the 2nd one so maybe the cost per service is more expensive but you don't need to do it so often.

[Lucky33]

Not necessarily true, just like the OP I wanted something 800 cc or above when I started looking for a new bike, wasn't sure which one but I new it had to be above 800. The 3 bikes OP is looking at were in the list of bikes that I have considered too.

Ended up getting something completely different altogether but that's a different story.

What?

Diavel

I own a Diavel as well and I've made a couple of trips from Pattaya to Koh Chang but it was always in the back of my mind, what if my Diavel quit, how would I make it back to the nearest dealer and how long would it take him to fix it. I found out about a month ago, my 2 YO Diavel with 12,000 kilometers on it quit on me. Luckily I was here in Pattaya and made it back home. At the dealer they gave me an appointment for three weeks from when I went to see them, said it was impossible to see me sooner, they were too busy. After I brought it in after three weeks they called me and said the part I needed, part of the fuel injection, had to be ordered from Italy and it would be another six weeks before I got it back! It is still at the dealer and it is supposed to be ready the 25th of this month.

I also own a couple of Hondas also so I have a bike to take on my trips and I had already quit taking the Diavel touring thinking that someday something like this would happen and I would be stranded. Ducatis are nice and I don't plan on getting rid of mine any time soon but you do pay a price, they aren't very practical. For practicality get a Honda, Kawa, etc, not a Ducati .

[Shurup]

Seems like Ducati Pattaya and Phuket are too small for the number of customers in the area.

Long parts wait times is another story and it's a shame they don't stock the parts in Thailand. Not even sure how it works if many models are made here but spare parts need to be ordered from Italy?

[ALFREDO]

The Monster looks cool - but I'd consider the Scrambler... Servicing will be way more expensive. Timing belt changes, desmodromic and all. A German dealer quoted about 20,000 Baht for a service!

Weight matters - if you will ride it in the mountains.

You could be right,

but 2 years free service, 15.000 km service interval and 30.000 km valve service is ok, I think.

And the Scrambler has for me not the looks of a Monster, a step down, in my eyes.

Special after I was driving the Monster 821 yesterday.

Mountains, sorry, not many in Isaan and I hope to ride the mountains West and South-West of Chinag Mai, from Pai - Umphang, but that is future and in EU I was riding mountains in the Alps for decades with mostly Yamaha R1, no problem.

Edited May 31, 2015 by ALFREDO

[ALFREDO]

I own a Diavel as well and I've made a couple of trips from Pattaya to Koh Chang but it was always in the back of my mind, what if my Diavel quit, how would I make it back to the nearest dealer and how long would it take him to fix it. I found out about a month ago, my 2 YO Diavel with 12,000 kilometers on it quit on me. Luckily I was here in Pattaya and made it back home. At the dealer they gave me an appointment for three weeks from when I went to see them, said it was impossible to see me sooner, they were too busy. After I brought it in after three weeks they called me and said the part I needed, part of the fuel injection, had to be ordered from Italy and it would be another six weeks before I got it back! It is still at the dealer and it is supposed to be ready the 25th of this month.

I also own a couple of Hondas also so I have a bike to take on my trips and I had already quit taking the Diavel touring thinking that someday something like this would happen and I would be stranded. Ducatis are nice and I don't plan on getting rid of mine any time soon but you do pay a price, they aren't very practical. For practicality get a Honda, Kawa, etc, not a Ducati .

Possibly better, stay with a Thai made Ducati as the 821, they should have the parts on stock?

Also, when the Pattaya, Bangkok or Phuket Ducati stations-dealers are to small sized and overwhelmed,

I believe that it is the opposite in Isaan, a station-dealer in Korat, Khon Kaen and Udon Thani, (how long-so many dealers?) is in my eye to much and they should have plenty of time if they have the spare part.

[Nickymaster]

CB650F is best value for money here in LOS. Also one of the best looking.

[Nickymaster]

Seems like Ducati Pattaya and Phuket are too small for the number of customers in the area.

Long parts wait times is another story and it's a shame they don't stock the parts in Thailand. Not even sure how it works if many models are made here but spare parts need to be ordered from Italy?

The dealer that has the most parts on stock is Ducati Tong Lo (first Ducati dealership). Probably because they have been around for a long time and they sell the most bikes.

You raise an interesting question: do parts from Thai made Ducatis come from Thailand or Italy? I think Italy but I am going to ask this. Now that I think about it, I just received a new rear fender for my Multistrada (assembled in Thailand) and it came from Italy.

Second, do they share parts among dealers here in LOS? Probably not, I don't think that is common anywhere in the world.

Edited May 31, 2015 by Nickymaster

[ALFREDO]

Yesterday, I went to Honda BIG Wing Udon Thani and asked for a ride on their CBR650F.

Seeing the bike again, I thought, OK, thats it, pretty enough and the price is good, I do not need more in TH I buy that bike.

But was only allowed to drive around their building, a small circle, not more than 20 km/h I think they said? lol

Anyway, I tried but, they use a 650 with a different handle bar, from the Australian model? for that funny 20 km/h? "test ride"?

I do not know what the reason was, the handle bar or not enough pressure in the tire? - seemed ok, when i touched the tire,

the bike felt at that slow speeds unstable, topheavy, to give a little more throttle, on the mini straight, was also answered, not satisfying-not enough revs

and as no more ride was allowed out of their premises, I changed my mind.

Had also a look at the new BMW F800 R 90 HP, at BMW Udon Thani, is pretty to,

also I like the looks of the dummy fuel tank design on top, not so much.

Anyway they have only a 800 GS with same engine for a test and that bike was in Khon Kaen comes back next week? So, sorry, only talks.

So, fast to DUCATI again, already nearly 5 PM, but got the bike and they let me drive on the open road, should go from their shop to the BIG C and U-turn back, that would have been about a 2-3 km ride in heavy city traffic - so not satisfying.

I just made the U-turn about 15-20 km later on the highway to Sakhon Nakhon allowed me once to have 170+ on the clock in 4th gear.

I was impressed.

Everything good, as far as I saw it and felt it on that short ride. Even the sound, I think.

The heavy traffic back made her hot to 106 degrees than the fan stabilized the temperature,

brought her down.

I was driving in shorts, was no real problem with the exhaust heat for me - short legged.

Only the price.

So, still the possibilty, a trip-flight to ride the second hand, nearly new Kawaski z800 there?

Can only compare the looks - like both bikes

and the sitting position of Kawa

A bit far stretched over the tank (I am not tall) - heavy when you bring her up from the side stand and Ducati, more relaxed sitting position, feels more light, moving her up.

http://www.bikesmedia.com/bmw-f800r-vs-ducati-monster-821-two-twins-motorcycles-but-not-twin.html

http://www.bikesdoctor.com/ducati-monster-821-vs-yamaha-mt-09-street-rally/

Edited May 31, 2015 by ALFREDO

[ALFREDO]

Seems like Ducati Pattaya and Phuket are too small for the number of customers in the area.

Long parts wait times is another story and it's a shame they don't stock the parts in Thailand. Not even sure how it works if many models are made here but spare parts need to be ordered from Italy?

The dealer that has the most parts on stock is Ducati Tong Lo (first Ducati dealership). Probably because they have been around for a long time and they sell the most bikes.

You raise an interesting question: do parts from Thai made Ducatis come from Thailand or Italy? I think Italy but I am going to ask this. Now that I think about it, I just received a new rear fender for my Multistrada (assembled in Thailand) and it came from Italy.

I think only, if they assemble the 821 in TH, they should have more easy access to parts.

[ALFREDO]

CB650F is best value for money here in LOS. Also one of the best looking.

I thought the same - BUT, as I wrote -

=========================================================================

"Yesterday, I went to Honda BIG Wing Udon Thani and asked for a ride on their CBR650F.

But was only allowed to drive around their building, a small circle, not more than 20 km/h I think they said? lol

they use a 650 with a different handle bar, from the Australian model?

I do not know what the reason was, the handle bar or not enough pressure in the tire? - seemed ok, when i touched the tire,

the bike felt at that slow speeds unstable, topheavy, to give a little more throttle, on the mini straight, was also answered, not satisfying-not enough revs

and no more ride was allowed out of their premises"

===============================================================================

Translation problem -

BUT could be, I heard, after I lamented about the poor slow driving handling of the Honda, that the Honda guy said "Not enough air in the (front) tire for me, as I am so heavy"

I touched the tire, did not feel he was deflated or has not enough air inside. Do not know what it was, but was disappointed and only a ride on the open road could have changed that.

That was not offered.

Edited May 31, 2015 by ALFREDO

[ALFREDO]

Regarding friendlyness and customer service =

Ducati - as soon as you enter cold -Ducati water- labeled bottles are brought to you, seating offered

(My sons take them now refilled to school )

Honda - no refreshment (water) or seating offered

BMW - same as Honda, nothing offered in the first place,

but on my way out I mentioned what I got in Ducati

and fast two cold BMW labeled water bottles where given me on my way,

my sons will bring them also, as school drinks to schoo, I think.

Second hand big bike motobike shop - Phan Khon (Sakhon Nakhon) - friendly and refreshments, seating offered

Edited May 31, 2015 by ALFREDO

[JimMorris]

Not necessarily true, just like the OP I wanted something 800 cc or above when I started looking for a new bike, wasn't sure which one but I new it had to be above 800. The 3 bikes OP is looking at were in the list of bikes that I have considered too.

Ended up getting something completely different altogether but that's a different story.

What?

Diavel

I own a Diavel as well and I've made a couple of trips from Pattaya to Koh Chang but it was always in the back of my mind, what if my Diavel quit, how would I make it back to the nearest dealer and how long would it take him to fix it. I found out about a month ago, my 2 YO Diavel with 12,000 kilometers on it quit on me. Luckily I was here in Pattaya and made it back home. At the dealer they gave me an appointment for three weeks from when I went to see them, said it was impossible to see me sooner, they were too busy. After I brought it in after three weeks they called me and said the part I needed, part of the fuel injection, had to be ordered from Italy and it would be another six weeks before I got it back! It is still at the dealer and it is supposed to be ready the 25th of this month.

I also own a couple of Hondas also so I have a bike to take on my trips and I had already quit taking the Diavel touring thinking that someday something like this would happen and I would be stranded. Ducatis are nice and I don't plan on getting rid of mine any time soon but you do pay a price, they aren't very practical. For practicality get a Honda, Kawa, etc, not a Ducati .

The problem with Ducati is not just its limited number of dealers and parts availability in Thailand, but the fact that they need to be repaired so often. They just can't keep up with the repairs. Case in point, when was the last time you heard of a Kawasaki or Honda needing repair of the fuel injection system after only 12,000KM on the bike? After 2 years, and only such a small amount of riding you should maybe need only new tires (if they have gotten hard from sitting so much) or a new battery from not running it enough. I think if word starts to get out locally about the type of experience you had then pretty soon Ducati won't be selling so many bikes in Thailand anymore.

[eeeya]

I could be wrong but ducati manufacturing might be sharing manufacturing of specific parts between Italy and Thailand.

For example, Italy's factory might be set up to produce one particular part and Thailand factory specializes in another particular part. These parts are shared to lower tooling and other manufacturing costs for the final product.

Other parts may be outsourced to other local companies.

For example an injector.

Keeping a massive inventory of spare parts costs money.

[JimMorris]

As far as I understand, Ducati isn't making anything here at all, parts included. The smaller framed "Asia Only" 795 model of Monster (with the cheaper double sided swing arm) are only being assembled here to reduce the import duty. But everything is still being made in Italy or elsewhere. Also, just for the record, this Ducati Monster that everyone thinks is so inexpensive here (the 795) is not a real Monster as I said in the sense that it is a smaller frame than the standard frame and targted towards the Asian market. It also has a double sided swing arm, which is less aesthetic looking and cheaper to make:

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/577/11353/Motorcycle-Article/New-Ducati-Monster-795-for-Asian-Market.aspx

Edited May 31, 2015 by JimMorris

[JimMorris]

The new Scambler will not actually be "made" here either: http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/news/ducati-scrambler-made-in-thailand/

And I can't find any evidence anywhere of parts for Ducati actually being manufactuered in Thailand at all.