Ducati Monster 821, Yamaha MT 09, Kawasaki Z 800 Which one?

[ALFREDO]

my 2 YO Diavel with 12,000 kilometers on it quit on me.

The problem with Ducati is not just its limited number of dealers and parts availability in Thailand, but the fact that they need to be repaired so often.

As far as I understand, Ducati isn't making anything here at all, parts included. The smaller framed "Asia Only" 795 model of Monster (with the cheaper double sided swing arm) are only being assembled here to reduce the import duty.

We are now on the Monster 821, the 795 is snow from last year.

At least they give 2 years warranty or 25.000 km, what ever comes first.

http://www.ducatithailand.com/services/warranty/index.do

Edited May 31, 2015 by ALFREDO

[Shurup]

The problem with Ducati is not just its limited number of dealers and parts availability in Thailand, but the fact that they need to be repaired so often. They just can't keep up with the repairs. Case in point, when was the last time you heard of a Kawasaki or Honda needing repair of the fuel injection system after only 12,000KM on the bike? After 2 years, and only such a small amount of riding you should maybe need only new tires (if they have gotten hard from sitting so much) or a new battery from not running it enough. I think if word starts to get out locally about the type of experience you had then pretty soon Ducati won't be selling so many bikes in Thailand anymore.

A few particular cases don't make the fact that ducati need to be repaired so often. Yes parts availability seems to be a concern but this is the 1st I've heard of that the injector quit after 12k km, could have been bad/dirty fuel, whatever.

Do you own a ducati, a never model, to say with certainty that it needs repairs all the time?

Edited May 31, 2015 by Shurup

[Shurup]

We are now on the Monster 821, the 795 is snow from last year.

Ay least they give 2 years warranty or 25.000 km, what ever comes first.

http://www.ducatithailand.com/services/warranty/index.do

Not even last year, you're thinking 796 which they stopped manufacturing globally last year and 796 was a proper monster.

795 has been off production line for at least a few years.

[eisfeld]

Bigwing Phuket offers cool water (not labeled ), cookies and coffee. Test rides possible on the open road (road to go up to 200km/h if it were legal not far away - Bypass Rd.) if you ask for it. If you don't then it's parking lot only. I rode the CB650F for 1500 km and didn't find it top-heavy nor handling bad in low speed city traffic. I found the opposite. So maybe give it another chance.

[JonnyF]

As far as I understand, Ducati isn't making anything here at all, parts included. The smaller framed "Asia Only" 795 model of Monster (with the cheaper double sided swing arm) are only being assembled here to reduce the import duty. But everything is still being made in Italy or elsewhere. Also, just for the record, this Ducati Monster that everyone thinks is so inexpensive here (the 795) is not a real Monster as I said in the sense that it is a smaller frame than the standard frame and targted towards the Asian market. It also has a double sided swing arm, which is less aesthetic looking and cheaper to make:

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/577/11353/Motorcycle-Article/New-Ducati-Monster-795-for-Asian-Market.aspx

You're wrong on quite a few points. What model Ducati's have you owned?

[Nickymaster]

Not necessarily true, just like the OP I wanted something 800 cc or above when I started looking for a new bike, wasn't sure which one but I new it had to be above 800. The 3 bikes OP is looking at were in the list of bikes that I have considered too.

Ended up getting something completely different altogether but that's a different story.

What?

Diavel

I own a Diavel as well and I've made a couple of trips from Pattaya to Koh Chang but it was always in the back of my mind, what if my Diavel quit, how would I make it back to the nearest dealer and how long would it take him to fix it. I found out about a month ago, my 2 YO Diavel with 12,000 kilometers on it quit on me. Luckily I was here in Pattaya and made it back home. At the dealer they gave me an appointment for three weeks from when I went to see them, said it was impossible to see me sooner, they were too busy. After I brought it in after three weeks they called me and said the part I needed, part of the fuel injection, had to be ordered from Italy and it would be another six weeks before I got it back! It is still at the dealer and it is supposed to be ready the 25th of this month.

I also own a couple of Hondas also so I have a bike to take on my trips and I had already quit taking the Diavel touring thinking that someday something like this would happen and I would be stranded. Ducatis are nice and I don't plan on getting rid of mine any time soon but you do pay a price, they aren't very practical. For practicality get a Honda, Kawa, etc, not a Ducati .

Sorry to hear about your bad experience, especially with the dealer. The fact that they told you to come back in 3 weeks and then let you wait for 6 weeks is a joke. What a bunch of <deleted>. I own a Multistrada which I bought at Ducati Tong Lo BKK. It has had a few issues but never left me stranded. They always fixed it on the spot (or within a few days). Parts from Italy arrived within 2 weeks. I believe that the Tong Lo dealer is the only one that can give professional service. Edited May 31, 2015 by Nickymaster

[JonnyF]

Not necessarily true, just like the OP I wanted something 800 cc or above when I started looking for a new bike, wasn't sure which one but I new it had to be above 800. The 3 bikes OP is looking at were in the list of bikes that I have considered too.

Ended up getting something completely different altogether but that's a different story.

What?

Diavel

I own a Diavel as well and I've made a couple of trips from Pattaya to Koh Chang but it was always in the back of my mind, what if my Diavel quit, how would I make it back to the nearest dealer and how long would it take him to fix it. I found out about a month ago, my 2 YO Diavel with 12,000 kilometers on it quit on me. Luckily I was here in Pattaya and made it back home. At the dealer they gave me an appointment for three weeks from when I went to see them, said it was impossible to see me sooner, they were too busy. After I brought it in after three weeks they called me and said the part I needed, part of the fuel injection, had to be ordered from Italy and it would be another six weeks before I got it back! It is still at the dealer and it is supposed to be ready the 25th of this month.

I also own a couple of Hondas also so I have a bike to take on my trips and I had already quit taking the Diavel touring thinking that someday something like this would happen and I would be stranded. Ducatis are nice and I don't plan on getting rid of mine any time soon but you do pay a price, they aren't very practical. For practicality get a Honda, Kawa, etc, not a Ducati .

The problem with Ducati is not just its limited number of dealers and parts availability in Thailand, but the fact that they need to be repaired so often. They just can't keep up with the repairs. Case in point, when was the last time you heard of a Kawasaki or Honda needing repair of the fuel injection system after only 12,000KM on the bike? After 2 years, and only such a small amount of riding you should maybe need only new tires (if they have gotten hard from sitting so much) or a new battery from not running it enough. I think if word starts to get out locally about the type of experience you had then pretty soon Ducati won't be selling so many bikes in Thailand anymore.

Many threads on here with issues with other brands before 12,000 kms. Search the cbr250 and cbr500 threads to start with.

You sound like you're being paid by someone to post. You're not hehehoho again are you? Teaching salary not covering the rent? If I was a mod I would look into it.

I would suggest people ignore this tool.

[JimMorris]

Not necessarily true, just like the OP I wanted something 800 cc or above when I started looking for a new bike, wasn't sure which one but I new it had to be above 800. The 3 bikes OP is looking at were in the list of bikes that I have considered too.

Ended up getting something completely different altogether but that's a different story.

What?

Diavel

I own a Diavel as well and I've made a couple of trips from Pattaya to Koh Chang but it was always in the back of my mind, what if my Diavel quit, how would I make it back to the nearest dealer and how long would it take him to fix it. I found out about a month ago, my 2 YO Diavel with 12,000 kilometers on it quit on me. Luckily I was here in Pattaya and made it back home. At the dealer they gave me an appointment for three weeks from when I went to see them, said it was impossible to see me sooner, they were too busy. After I brought it in after three weeks they called me and said the part I needed, part of the fuel injection, had to be ordered from Italy and it would be another six weeks before I got it back! It is still at the dealer and it is supposed to be ready the 25th of this month.

I also own a couple of Hondas also so I have a bike to take on my trips and I had already quit taking the Diavel touring thinking that someday something like this would happen and I would be stranded. Ducatis are nice and I don't plan on getting rid of mine any time soon but you do pay a price, they aren't very practical. For practicality get a Honda, Kawa, etc, not a Ducati .

The problem with Ducati is not just its limited number of dealers and parts availability in Thailand, but the fact that they need to be repaired so often. They just can't keep up with the repairs. Case in point, when was the last time you heard of a Kawasaki or Honda needing repair of the fuel injection system after only 12,000KM on the bike? After 2 years, and only such a small amount of riding you should maybe need only new tires (if they have gotten hard from sitting so much) or a new battery from not running it enough. I think if word starts to get out locally about the type of experience you had then pretty soon Ducati won't be selling so many bikes in Thailand anymore.

Many threads on here with issues with other brands before 12,000 kms. Search the cbr250 and cbr500 threads to start with.

You sound like you're being paid by someone to post. You're not hehehoho again are you? Teaching salary not covering the rent? If I was a mod I would look into it.

I would suggest people ignore this tool.

Wow, I love the show of ego followed by the personal attacks and insults for not liking Ducati motorcycles. Very mature of you. Please keep it up. It is very impressive and I wont expect anything less going forward.

In addition, I can see it is hard to imagine that there is someone on this planet who doesn't actually want to lick the gas tank of a Ducati in admiration. But it is true. I am one of those people. Truth is stranger than fiction isn't it?

In fact, nope, never owned a Ducati. Never will. I am well aware of the all the problems they have so I am smart enough to stay clear away from them. Not to mention the fact that there are no parts made for them in Thailand. Especially that Diavel, the worst of them all.

Anyway, it is not really anyone's business about the brands of the 8 bikes that I own or the other 3 I have on order right now is it?

So, let's stay on topic here. Actually show me some evidence of the following:

1 - Ducati is actually "manufacturing" anything in Thailand and is not just assembling here.

2 - That there is any evidence to prove that the track record of reliability of their motorcycles has actually improved at all over time.

None of my bikes have had any major problems within the first 12,000KM. Although it is par for the course for a Ducati to start breaking down very fast from what I have heard over the last 20 years from Ducati owner's, including that post from Lucky 33.

[Shurup]

Wow, I love the show of ego followed by the personal attacks and insults for not liking Ducati motorcycles. Very mature of you. Please keep it up. It is very impressive and I wont expect anything less going forward.

...

In fact, nope, never owned a Ducati. ...

So, let's stay on topic here.

...

Although it is par for the course for a Ducati to start breaking down very fast from what I have heard over the last 20 years from Ducati owner's, including that post from Lucky 33.

Love she show of hatred lies and BS from someone who never owned a ducati, keep it up.

If you base your opinion on what was going on with Ducati 20 years ago, you're even more ignorant saying other bikes from that era were much better.

There are thousands of Diavel owners on Diavel forum and it's the 1st I've heard of the injector issues, it is therefore an isolated occurrence and shit like this can happen and it can happen with any bike as I'm sure Ducati doesn't make their own injectors but they use some of the injectors from bigger manufacturers. A quick search shows they used Mitsubishi injector system in their 2012 models, don't know if it changed since though.

And regarding staying on topic - the topic is about trying to choose between the 3 bikes in the OP, not where Ducati parts manufactured.

[JimMorris]

And regarding staying on topic - the topic is about trying to choose between the 3 bikes in the OP, not where Ducati parts manufactured.

On topic:???

There are thousands of Diavel owners on Diavel forum and it's the 1st I've heard of the injector issues, it is therefore an isolated occurrence and shit like this can happen and it can happen with any bike as I'm sure Ducati doesn't make their own injectors but they use some of the injectors from bigger manufacturers.

On topic???

A quick search shows they used Mitsubishi injector system in their 2012 models, don't know if it changed since though.

Meanwhile, quoting other great words:

You sound like you're being paid by someone to post. Teaching salary not covering the rent? If I was a mod I would look into it.

[Nickymaster]

As far as I understand, Ducati isn't making anything here at all, parts included. The smaller framed "Asia Only" 795 model of Monster (with the cheaper double sided swing arm) are only being assembled here to reduce the import duty. But everything is still being made in Italy or elsewhere. Also, just for the record, this Ducati Monster that everyone thinks is so inexpensive here (the 795) is not a real Monster as I said in the sense that it is a smaller frame than the standard frame and targted towards the Asian market. It also has a double sided swing arm, which is less aesthetic looking and cheaper to make:

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/577/11353/Motorcycle-Article/New-Ducati-Monster-795-for-Asian-Market.aspx

Smaller frame? Really? You are wrong. All latest air cooled Monsters frames are the same (659-696-795-796-1100)

Back to the 795. The only difference is the swing arm, (with 160 tyre instead of 180), handlebars, brakes and clutch and some other minor things) compared to the 796. The 795 in Asia is basically the same as the 696 they sold in the U.S., Europe etc only a larger engine. So nothing about smaller size especially for the Asian market.

Yes they are assembled here with parts from Italy (engine), electronics, suspension and tires from (Germany/Italy). Front suspension comes from Italy too btw. Seat, body parts, wheels are made in Thailand.

Dude, do some research before posting.

[soihok]

Hey guys, whilst you were back and forth with posts, did you manage to watch the MotoGP from Mugello?

Awesome.

I have never owned a Ducati, I currently own an MT-09. I do really like most of the Ducatis on sale. I sat on a Monster 1200s in the Korat showroom it was a lovely machine - just couldn't see me using it in the same way as the Yam, which back and forth to work in dreadful traffic rain or shine.

Still - I would like to own a Ducati.

In fact, I love bikes full stop (saying that, bikes under 600cc don;t really appeal to me though, unless they are such things as the supercool and scarce two strokes of years gone by).

Bikes are transport for the masses - long live the motorbike

[ALFREDO]

Not to mention the fact that there are no parts made for them in Thailand.

That there is any evidence to prove that the track record of reliability of their motorcycles has actually improved at all over time.

No Ducati parts made in Thailand - When true, even better and good.

At least the DUCATI TRACK - Racing - Moto Gp record has very much improved in this year and season.

Today a 2nd place. Most powerful bikes in Moto Gp it seems.

Edited May 31, 2015 by ALFREDO

[eeeya]

https://youtu.be/qHKiwtTBKas

No ducati parts made in Thailand?

[ALFREDO]

Hey guys, whilst you were back and forth with posts, did you manage to watch the MotoGP from Mugello

I currently own an MT-09.

YES, watched the race and was good again.

I am always sorry if I missed, a Moto Gp afternoon - race.

So, how is it with the soft shock absorber, I read about? Did you change something?

[soihok]

I have put a Nitron NR4 rear shock on my MT.

Transformed the bike.

I hear that the new Tracer has better suspension though

[BKKBike09]

The point about parts availability I'd think is a good one. I don't know what range of parts are typically available for locally assembled bikes but logically it should be easier to source parts for these bikes as opposed to CBU imports. Best to avoid dropping any bike, but especially a CBU import ...

Sort of back on topic - I wanted to test ride a Hypermotard at the Ducati Rama 3 Open Day yesterday. They didn't have one, so I tried a Hyperstrada along 7 km of Rama 3. Nice bike but I'll keep the MT09. I had the Ducati in 'sport' mode but, compared to the MT09 in its sport mode, it was much less exhilarating in terms of the power delivery. I was quite surprised given that, on paper, the new 821 Testastretta engine - as also found in Monster 821 - puts out the same if not more HP and torque than an 09 although it does need to be revved.

I also like the fact that the MT09 has a gear position indicator as standard, which apparently isn't the case with the Monster 821 / Hypermotard / Hyperstrada. (I change gears very slowly and am very poor in mathematics so I find it helpful to have one.)

[ALFREDO]

I had the Ducati in 'sport' mode but, compared to the MT09 in its sport mode, it was much less exhilarating in terms of the power delivery. I was quite surprised given that, on paper, the new 821 Testastretta engine - as also found in Monster 821 - puts out the same if not more HP and torque than an 09 although it does need to be revved.

I also like the fact that the MT09 has a gear position indicator as standard, which apparently isn't the case with the Monster 821 / Hypermotard / Hyperstrada. (I change gears very slowly and am very poor in mathematics so I find it helpful to have one.)

Nearly similar strong engined bikes, maybe the Ducati test bike had already some "bad" testing in it.

Anyway, I read in Internet, the Yamaha is except of the shock absorber, the better choice and slightly stronger.

Regarding gear position indicator. I drive what gear I want to drive, without looking or care what gear it is

and often in my life I tried to place the non existent 7th gear in, but that does not hurt.

Ducati Monster 821 Yamaha MT-09

Speed factory specification 225 km/h 210 km/h

acceleration test

0–100 km/h 3,3 sek 3,3 sek

0–140 km/h 5,7 sek 5,4 sek

0–200 km/h 13,8 sek 11,5 sek

last gear speed test from - to

60–100 km/h 4,1 sek 3,3 sek

100–140 km/h 4,5 sek 4,0 sek

140–180 km/h 4,8 sek 4,4 sek

consumption 100km 4,5 Liter/Super 4,3 Liter/Super

range 389 km 326 km

http://www.motorradonline.de/vergleichstest/ducati-monster-821-und-yamaha-mt-09-im-vergleichstest/588230

Edited June 1, 2015 by ALFREDO

[Shurup]

I read Yamaha got lower gears so it should pull a bit harder but that can be changed with changing sprocket size, if someone cares for a split second gain in drag race.

I'd more worry about the usable fuel range (17 L tank on Duc vs 14 L on Yam) and personally for me ABS is a big decision maker.

[soihok]

The ABS on my MT has certainly saved the rear coming around on several emergency braking situations (ABS model not available in Thailand for some reason)

Its the first ABS bike I have owned, a great help.

By the way, when I was deciding I followed advice from TV members and went for ABS. Glad I did.

The tank of 14litres is a slight inconvenience and not a great issue.

Anyone know when the Tracer is released?

This has ABS as standard.

I would advise Alfredo to go for that rather than MT-09

[Shurup]

Tracer is a nice but a different type bike. It would compete against the Versys V-strom and Multi/Hyper Strada.

There's no excuse not to get an ABS bike this day, even if someone doesn't need it or font care for it, it's there to save your @ss in emergency and it doesn't interfere with riding in anyway unless you're some out of this world MotoGP racer that a few extra inches of the break lines can affect your riding performance...

[soihok]

Tracer has same frame and Engine as MT-09.

[Shurup]

Yes but the bike is totally transformed from a naked to a tourer. It is actually a good compromise for those that think the 650 are too small for the purpose and the 1000+ is too big. It would probably be my choice if I was shopping for this style bike.

[DILLIGAD]

Bikes with ABS

As does the Triumph Tiger XRx plus traction control/rider modes & cruise control for 535k

Edited June 1, 2015 by DILLIGAD

[ALFREDO]

After driving the Ducati, no surprise maybe, its my favorite. Yamaha only a bit cheaper - but less charisma.?

Worth to check if a test bike is in Khon Kaen?

I will try to find out with an e-mail.

The BMW a bit back in power, at least on paper. Also no test bike.

Kawasaki ER6n not so nice package and a soft front fork on my test bike.

So still the second hand but nearly new-not much used Kawasaki z800 with a big price difference in the ring.

[soihok]

How about the Street Triple Alfredo?

[Nickymaster]

ABS is essential in Thailand with all those oily, dusty, gravel/sand covered roads. Ad some rain and even with ABS it becomes dangerous. Just my opinion after having owned 7 big bikes and done 100,000 kms here in LOS.

Again, just my opinion and experience so no need to argue about it.

Edited June 2, 2015 by Nickymaster

[ALFREDO]

How about the Street Triple Alfredo?

Interesting to, but in Korat, the next dealer? That is far.

Edited June 2, 2015 by ALFREDO

[andreandre]

ABS is essential in Thailand with all those oily, dusty, gravel/sand covered roads. Ad some rain and even with ABS it becomes dangerous. Just my opinion after having owned 7 big bikes and done 100,000 kms here in LOS.

Again, just my opinion and experience so no need to argue about it.

No arguing...just change ''essential'' to "beneficial" and you are on the money.. {IMO}

[BKKBike09]

Alfredo - just buy the Ducati. You know you want to ...

You can also enjoy the fact that in LOS the price difference between the Duke and the Yam makes the Duke a bargain compared to Europe (that article you referenced says 10,690 Euro for the former and 8295 for the latter).

I've no idea what those testers were doing to get 326 km out of a tank on an 09 … 250 km seems more realistic in my experience.