Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[lucky11]

Now there’s confusion over the condoms. In the migrants purported confession, they said they hadn’t used a condom when sexually assaulting Witheridge, despite the fact that police had said their sperm had been been found on a condom linked to the scene.

Now why would they say such a thing? perhaps they are a bit dim (cannot write also) and weren't versed in the fact that you are supposed to be quiet until a human rights lawyer butts in and interferes by telling you to deny everything (true or not).

Its impossible to read anything into that they had been tortured into the confessions with had a translator and had assaulted them.

They were tortured by the police into claiming their innocence of the crimes!! Let me thing about this - the police were torturing them until they got a denial with the reason given for their innocence which just so happened to implicate them as being the guilty parties .

On second thoughts maybe I shouldn't have thought about it!!

[Gweiloman]

Now there’s confusion over the condoms. In the migrants purported confession, they said they hadn’t used a condom when sexually assaulting Witheridge, despite the fact that police had said their sperm had been been found on a condom linked to the scene.

Now why would they say such a thing? perhaps they are a bit dim (cannot write also) and weren't versed in the fact that you are supposed to be quiet until a human rights lawyer butts in and interferes by telling you to deny everything (true or not).

Its impossible to read anything into that they had been tortured into the confessions with had a translator and had assaulted them.

They were tortured by the police into claiming their innocence of the crimes!! Let me thing about this - the police were torturing them until they got a denial with the reason given for their innocence which just so happened to implicate them as being the guilty parties .

On second thoughts maybe I shouldn't have thought about it!!

Meanwhile, Parinya Sirisarakarn, a member of the National Human Rights Commission (NHRC), yesterday gave new information about forensic evidence and claims made by the two suspects - Maung Saw and Maung Win - whom he had met.

He said they told him they had not used condoms while sexually violating the female victim, contrary to earlier police statements that sperm carrying their DNA was found on the outside of condoms.

It is claimed by Parinya that they said this. To put it to rest, let's see if the prosecution will call upon Parinya for his testimony.

[konying]

Thailand backpacker murders: DNA evidence 'lost' - police

(BBC) Crucial DNA evidence in the case of the murder of two British backpackers cannot be retested because it no longer exists, Thai police have told the BBC.

The evidence is central to the prosecution case against two Burmese migrants on trial for killing David Miller, 24, from Jersey, and Hannah Witheridge, 23, from Norfolk.

The defence had wanted it re-examined.

It comes as Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo, who both deny murder, rape and robbery, appear in court for a second day.

Full story: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-33457038

-- BBC 2015-07-09

Speechless yet priceless.

[lucky11]

Asian Correspondent piece - 'justice looks elusive'. Also mentions police admission that they had lost evidence

http://asiancorrespondent.com/134045/thailand-justice-looks-elusive-in-koh-tao-murders-trial/

Can't you read?

Where does it say the word lost?

If you eat all of the apples and somebody asks you if they can have one do you reply "no, I have lost them"!!!

[JLCrab]

In reply to JLCrab Post #353:-

The point is, which has already been stated, is that a translator working for Sky News has been warned off by presumably, the Thai mafia from Koh Tao. Whether that translator was working for Sky News, Reuters, the BBC, or ISIS is irrelevant - what are the RTP doing about it? And why has the roti seller been appointed as official translator for the court? Was the translator that was working for Sky News one and the same? (Sorry JD - conspiracy theory!)And if he is appearing as a witness for the prosecution, how is it possible that he can be appointed as official translator to the court?

So you're saying maybe SKY News is a bunch of wimps who will let their translator be frightened off by some goons from another island where the trial isn't taking place? Did the SKY News camera crew not have a photo or video of their translator being warned off?

Edited July 9, 2015 by JLCrab

[Bung]

Surely it is easy to find a translator that isnt bothered by some "mafia" intimidation? Someone from outside of the country? They should get them wired for sound and hidden cameras to show to the police!

Im sure they will prosecute them......

[boomerangutang]

I realize what has been reported. Why would the Mafia on Koh Samui let the Mafia from Koh Tao have any say on what happens on their island?

How do you know they're two different mafia families (do they mind that you call them mafia? most Thai take extreme offense at being called 'mafia'). How do you know the two families are rivals?

It's only a 20 minute boat ride between the two islands. It's not a stretch to envision very concerned mafia members on the smaller island - cruising over to the larger island and making sure there's as little mention as possible of their possible involvement. It's already known Mon was at the trial today.

It's funny, none of the Headman's shielders (I'm not referring to Crab, but to others more right wing than him) have been jumping up and down protesting the word 'mafia' used to describe the KT Headman's clan. I was careful in prior posts to use the term 'mafia-like' when describing them. Can I now be less careful about that? Good thing I don't live near those islands. They might find me and harass me also - because of my outspoken views on how this case has been so thoroughly skewed to protect the H's people.

[Jimlove]

The Koh Samui mafia would probably rather see the scion of the Koh Tao clan convicted if he really did it 'cause, if he gets off for this one, he's bound to cause them more and maybe bigger trouble down the road

Or maybe a few Koh Tao mafia are on Samui taking a keen interest in threatening journalists, and intimidating potential witnesses.

Some of these correspondents have covered the Al Qaeda in Afghanistan and Sudan. And now you're telling me they're being intimidated buy a bunch of former coconut farmers?

Can you read ... ? The coconut farmers - as you call them - threatened the translator, not the journalist ...

Btw here you can get shoot just by honking the horn at someone - defiantely something wrong in the head of thais in generel ...

Tourism will be so skrewd by this case and all the other disgusting going on here - insane asylum here

[lucky11]

In reply to JLCrab Post #353:-

The point is, which has already been stated, is that a translator working for Sky News has been warned off by presumably, the Thai mafia from Koh Tao. Whether that translator was working for Sky News, Reuters, the BBC, or ISIS is irrelevant - what are the RTP doing about it? And why has the roti seller been appointed as official translator for the court? Was the translator that was working for Sky News one and the same? (Sorry JD - conspiracy theory!)And if he is appearing as a witness for the prosecution, how is it possible that he can be appointed as official translator to the court?

So you're saying maybe SKY News is a bunch of wimps who will let their translator be frightened off by some goons from another island where the trial isn't taking place? Did the SKY News camera crew not have a photo or video of their translator being warned off?

Don't spoil his story!!

[Basil B]

The way this has been handled from the start could give reason to any Thai person seeing any of the Keystone Kop movies to believe them to be actual true documentaries.

What is so wrong is the families of Heather and David have travelled six thousand miles to see justice, and end up seeing a "Brian Rix" type farce.

[thailandchilli]

Now there’s confusion over the condoms. In the migrants purported confession, they said they hadn’t used a condom when sexually assaulting Witheridge, despite the fact that police had said their sperm had been been found on a condom linked to the scene.

Now why would they say such a thing? perhaps they are a bit dim (cannot write also) and weren't versed in the fact that you are supposed to be quiet until a human rights lawyer butts in and interferes by telling you to deny everything (true or not).

Its impossible to read anything into that they had been tortured into the confessions with had a translator and had assaulted them.

They were tortured by the police into claiming their innocence of the crimes!! Let me thing about this - the police were torturing them until they got a denial with the reason given for their innocence which just so happened to implicate them as being the guilty parties .

On second thoughts maybe I shouldn't have thought about it!!

Meanwhile, Parinya Sirisarakarn, a member of the National Human Rights Commission (NHRC), yesterday gave new information about forensic evidence and claims made by the two suspects - Maung Saw and Maung Win - whom he had met.

He said they told him they had not used condoms while sexually violating the female victim, contrary to earlier police statements that sperm carrying their DNA was found on the outside of condoms.

It is claimed by Parinya that they said this. To put it to rest, let's see if the prosecution will call upon Parinya for his testimony.

It should also be noted that Parinya stated he saw bruises on them due to the torture they received from the RTP, this is in a Nation article

[Gweiloman]

In reply to JLCrab Post #353:-

The point is, which has already been stated, is that a translator working for Sky News has been warned off by presumably, the Thai mafia from Koh Tao. Whether that translator was working for Sky News, Reuters, the BBC, or ISIS is irrelevant - what are the RTP doing about it? And why has the roti seller been appointed as official translator for the court? Was the translator that was working for Sky News one and the same? (Sorry JD - conspiracy theory!)And if he is appearing as a witness for the prosecution, how is it possible that he can be appointed as official translator to the court?

So you're saying maybe SKY News is a bunch of wimps who will let their translator be frightened off by some goons from another island where the trial isn't taking place? Did the SKY News camera crew not have a photo or video of their translator being warned off?

Yawn.

What is the point that you are trying to make? That SKY news "invented" this story? Even if so, so what? Bears no relevance to the trial.

[catterwell]

I am not Your Dog! I do not enjoy Fetch! Look for yourself!

The Proof is their, but regarding proof you just ignore it anyway!

So what is the point?

You could not be my dog. My dog has a much higher IQ then you, is nowhere near as naive but, a little like you, he does obey his master, always and without question!

Does that sound a little like you? RTP shill?

Your naivete was funny at first but now, after many, many unintelligent posts from you, you are simply a dull bore.

Insulting is a waste of everyone's time. Better to ignore.

[thailandchilli]

Just read on BBC news the DNA evidence is lost?!

Not lost - there is none left.

However a senior police officer today told the court that the DNA found on the cigarettes is “finished” and other samples were only suitable for one test or may have been lost.

http://www.samuitimes.com/day-two-of-the-koh-tao-murder-trial/

[bluesmith]

Next they will shot for trying to escape case closed

[sambum]

From the Samui Times today:-

"A decision was due to be made by the judge today as to whether independent DNA testing could be carried out. However a senior police officer today told the court that the DNA found on the cigarettes is finished and other samples were only suitable for one test or may have been lost."

"Finished" "Lost" Now there's a surprise! (Especially the "may have" bit!) And from a "senior" police officer!

What a farce lol.

And lol at JDinasia still playing the apologist, haven't opened a Koh Tao thread in a while and sure enough there he is.

Yes, along with a couple of his cronies, whose names you are probably familiar with, so I won't put the names in print for fear of being accused of making personal attacks! Just as an aside, I seem to remember very early on in this case, that someone said that they wouldn't be at all surprised if key evidence got "lost" along the way! Well, well, well!

Edited July 9, 2015 by sambum

[thailandchilli]

In reply to JLCrab Post #353:-

The point is, which has already been stated, is that a translator working for Sky News has been warned off by presumably, the Thai mafia from Koh Tao. Whether that translator was working for Sky News, Reuters, the BBC, or ISIS is irrelevant - what are the RTP doing about it? And why has the roti seller been appointed as official translator for the court? Was the translator that was working for Sky News one and the same? (Sorry JD - conspiracy theory!)And if he is appearing as a witness for the prosecution, how is it possible that he can be appointed as official translator to the court?

So you're saying maybe SKY News is a bunch of wimps who will let their translator be frightened off by some goons from another island where the trial isn't taking place? Did the SKY News camera crew not have a photo or video of their translator being warned off?

Don't spoil his story!!

To some its not a story, to some its serious especially to the translator who obviously is in fear but obviously not you, guess you have the right to your opinion

[lucky11]

Just read on BBC news the DNA evidence is lost?!

Not lost - there is none left.

However a senior police officer today told the court that the DNA found on the cigarettes is “finished” and other samples were only suitable for one test or may have been lost.

http://www.samuitimes.com/day-two-of-the-koh-tao-murder-trial/

What he is saying is that the DNA evidence has been exhausted and there is none left, so lets leave it at that.

[Jim walker]

If the families of the two murdered victims are looking for closure regarding their loved ones it will not happen in Thailand because the whole world knows how Thai justice works on cover ups and cash payments so that criminals buy their Thai justice it will probably take some British newspaper or undercover TV investigation programme to find anything like the truth what happened on that tragic night. There will be no truth and/or justice in any Thai court of law.

[JLCrab]

In reply to JLCrab Post #353:-

The point is, which has already been stated, is that a translator working for Sky News has been warned off by presumably, the Thai mafia from Koh Tao. Whether that translator was working for Sky News, Reuters, the BBC, or ISIS is irrelevant - what are the RTP doing about it? And why has the roti seller been appointed as official translator for the court? Was the translator that was working for Sky News one and the same? (Sorry JD - conspiracy theory!)And if he is appearing as a witness for the prosecution, how is it possible that he can be appointed as official translator to the court?

So you're saying maybe SKY News is a bunch of wimps who will let their translator be frightened off by some goons from another island where the trial isn't taking place? Did the SKY News camera crew not have a photo or video of their translator being warned off?

Yawn.

What is the point that you are trying to make? That SKY news "invented" this story? Even if so, so what? Bears no relevance to the trial.

What possible advantage is gained by the Mafia from Koh Tao coming to Koh Samui and threatening a translator? Threatening an eye witness to the murder, maybe. And Reuters -- whose reports are the basis of many of the UK newspaper reports -- has a Thai Chief Correspondent who writes her dispatches in English and doesn't need a translator.

[churchill]

Thailand: Justice looks elusive in Koh Tao murders trial

http://asiancorrespondent.com/134045/thailand-justice-looks-elusive-in-koh-tao-murders-trial/

[kkup]

Can someone with legal experience enlighten me on the next steps if this was in a developed country where people couldn't be financially persuaded? If key DNA samples that were the strongest part of the prosecution's case were lost, what would be the likely-hood of a conviction?

[churchill]

Thailand: Justice looks elusive in Koh Tao murders trial

http://asiancorrespondent.com/134045/thailand-justice-looks-elusive-in-koh-tao-murders-trial/

Never trust a Thai Court or a Thai Lawyer

[sambum]

In reply to JLCrab Post #353:-

The point is, which has already been stated, is that a translator working for Sky News has been warned off by presumably, the Thai mafia from Koh Tao. Whether that translator was working for Sky News, Reuters, the BBC, or ISIS is irrelevant - what are the RTP doing about it? And why has the roti seller been appointed as official translator for the court? Was the translator that was working for Sky News one and the same? (Sorry JD - conspiracy theory!)And if he is appearing as a witness for the prosecution, how is it possible that he can be appointed as official translator to the court?

So you're saying maybe SKY News is a bunch of wimps who will let their translator be frightened off by some goons from another island where the trial isn't taking place? Did the SKY News camera crew not have a photo or video of their translator being warned off?

Yawn.

What is the point that you are trying to make? That SKY news "invented" this story? Even if so, so what? Bears no relevance to the trial.

Exactly! And note that JLCrab made no answer to my questions about the roti seller, and the legal implications thereof!

[ttthailand]

My humble opinion.... It sounds to me like the DNA first taken from hoe, cigarette butts etc was correct and the police team was on the right track but of course was being hindered by locals. Then came in the last team who took over the investigation and they just invented stuff and let the true killers get away. They never thought that things would go as far as they have due to past experience. But now they can't retest because there wouldn't be a match.

The cigarette butt match even if true does not prove anything except that they should be fined 2,000 baht for littering.

Where is the DNA match that was taken from the rape and the matching DNA ?

Edited July 9, 2015 by ttthailand

[boomerangutang]

So much talk regarding the DNA testing, maybe the focus should be on how the DNA was obtained, by who, and the sequence of events handling etc. prior to testing?

Exactly correct, the police took DNA samples from many people, what's saying they didn't take that DNA and mix it with samples from the victims and say we have the criminals DNA on the victims so these two boys are diffinetly the ones that committed this crime. Not rocket science!

Unlikely to 'mix it with samples from the victims'. Because then the DNA from the real perpetrators could be found. I think it's more likely the ruse revolved around changing the labeling. Everything is stored on computers now. How hard is it to change the name of a file? ...takes about 15 seconds.

However, perhaps the RTP top brass didn't even act that cagey. Perhaps they just made the claim in October: "DNA from the two Burmese matches the DNA found in Hannah" ....and figured everyone and their uncles would believe it - and then everyone goes on to the next day's headline about ISIS beheadings or whatever. What the RTP didn't count on was this avalanche of sustained concern by those of us seeking truth and justice. It just ruined their ill-conceived plan.

P.S. don't be surprised if one or more top brass suddenly take a permanent vacation to the US or Europe. It wouldn't be an anamoly. It's happened before in Thailand, when criminal cases are proven to be intentionally botched. All of a sudden, POW!, the top brass who's going to be investigated is gone. He left yesterday on a flight to Las Vegas or Miami, and took suitcases of cash. Sounds a bit like Pokemon when she left right after the coup which ousted her husband Thaksin, doesn't it. Except with T's wife, she split with 35 oversized stuffed suitcases. Stay tuned, the roller coaster ride has barely begun.

[Nigeone]

In reply to JLCrab Post #353:-

The point is, which has already been stated, is that a translator working for Sky News has been warned off by presumably, the Thai mafia from Koh Tao. Whether that translator was working for Sky News, Reuters, the BBC, or ISIS is irrelevant - what are the RTP doing about it? And why has the roti seller been appointed as official translator for the court? Was the translator that was working for Sky News one and the same? (Sorry JD - conspiracy theory!)And if he is appearing as a witness for the prosecution, how is it possible that he can be appointed as official translator to the court?

So you're saying maybe SKY News is a bunch of wimps who will let their translator be frightened off by some goons from another island where the trial isn't taking place? Did the SKY News camera crew not have a photo or video of their translator being warned off?

Don't spoil his story!!

You guys are really struggling aren't you..Most probably the translator was picked up locally..it would make sense no! Tell why the hell would SKY make up the story..it's well known the Mafia have lent on people on Koh Tao..In fact only early this morning was a live interview with a Burmese in Kho Tao stating that very same fact that the Mafia ruled the islands and everybody is very afraid if anything is said...no as I have said why would they have to shut people up if there wasn't something to hide. If I was there I would be scared too..but the media will get somebody to talk...just watch...as for the camera angle etc they probably didn't think. They would do it as it more then a bit stupid isn't it. The UK media won't be suppressed like the Thai media..no mate smell the coffee

[thailandchilli]

Just read on BBC news the DNA evidence is lost?!

Not lost - there is none left.

However a senior police officer today told the court that the DNA found on the cigarettes is “finished” and other samples were only suitable for one test or may have been lost.

http://www.samuitimes.com/day-two-of-the-koh-tao-murder-trial/

What he is saying is that the DNA evidence has been exhausted and there is none left, so lets leave it at that.

Yes lets leave it at the report that everyone can read..................ending with LOST

[sambum]

In reply to JLCrab Post #353:-

The point is, which has already been stated, is that a translator working for Sky News has been warned off by presumably, the Thai mafia from Koh Tao. Whether that translator was working for Sky News, Reuters, the BBC, or ISIS is irrelevant - what are the RTP doing about it? And why has the roti seller been appointed as official translator for the court? Was the translator that was working for Sky News one and the same? (Sorry JD - conspiracy theory!)And if he is appearing as a witness for the prosecution, how is it possible that he can be appointed as official translator to the court?

So you're saying maybe SKY News is a bunch of wimps who will let their translator be frightened off by some goons from another island where the trial isn't taking place? Did the SKY News camera crew not have a photo or video of their translator being warned off?

Yawn.

What is the point that you are trying to make? That SKY news "invented" this story? Even if so, so what? Bears no relevance to the trial.

What possible advantage is gained by the Mafia from Koh Tao coming to Koh Samui and threatening a translator? Threatening an eye witness to the murder, maybe. And Reuters -- whose reports are the basis of many of the UK newspaper reports -- has a Thai Chief Correspondent who writes her dispatches in English and doesn't need a translator.

You obviously don't understand "Thainess"!

[scorecard]

What a load of BS this is. All these two have done is sign something made up and written by the same human rights lawyer!! This should be dismissed as being 'evidence of their retraction'.

They didn't retract their statements it was done for them.

Perhaps your post is a load of B.S. unless you have proof of what you are saying

I'm no hand writing expert but you don't need to be to see that both letters are written by the same person. Simply look at the dates on both letters and they are identical in every way, as are the loops and style (I used a magnifying glass). I had to laugh when I see the torn out scraps of paper with one sentence scribbled out to make it appear genuine!!.

I don't think it is written in the Myanmar language either and are their signatures for real?

What I would do if I was the prosecutor is ask them to sign a piece of paper - I doubt that they (signatures) would look anything like what's written on the paper.

It is obvious to me that they did it.

So are you familiar whether both of these boys can write, in any language? I somehow doubt (I said doubt, I didn't say it's a fact) that either of these kids have much education.

Is it possible that someone else wrote down what the boys said because their skills at constructing such documents if weak to non existent, and then the boys signed it?

If that's true, is there anything wrong with that?