General topic re purpose of posting in general

[athousand]

I recently made a post based on my reading of the past few weeks posts here and about the forum in general - I'm hoping it might become more helpful and collaborative. It was deleted as it was off-topic - so perhaps I can create a new post where we can discuss?

I've copied it below and elaborated further.

I hope it is possible to have an open and free debate on the tone and content of the posts that appear on this forum. I hope so!

This is getting ridiculous. This guy/lady is clearly a troll - derailing every topic he/she comes into contact with.

POPULAR

Surely the 'point' of thaivisa or any other forum or community is to provide some kind of interchange of ideas based on common respect - not the kind of playground bullying that this poster engages in.

I am disappointed in the mods that he/she is allowed to continue unabated and it reflects badly on thaivisa as a whole.

I have been checking in regularly to try to find up to date and useful information on the new visa changes. I thought thaivisa would be the best place for this. I'm guessing the recent buyers of the site thought the same. Instead I have found a site riddled with vitriol and nonsense - full of posts which have no intended purpose of helping others - only to satisfy some personal agenda.

Are we not all in the same boat? unless you were born in Thailand, or have Thai parents, we have all come here for our own reasons, whatever they may be, and would like to continue living, residing, being, spending time here.

If there is a discussion to be had about our interpretation and inferences about the ‘larger game’ being played by the powers that be - that is fine, that is one of the functions of a forum like this - but it is all inference and interpretation - there is no ‘fact’. We don’t ‘know’ - even if it seems one way or another.

After visiting Thaivisa hundreds and thousands of times the past few months, hoping to find constructive information and advice, regarding the recent changes, I have found some recurring themes, which for me, detract from the central purpose and usefulness of Thaivisa as a source of information - because it seem that most posts fall under the following categories, offer no useful information, but have to be sifted through and then disregarded :

1. There is no such thing as a ‘marriage visa’ or a ‘retirement visa’ in Thailand

What is the value of a post that points out that…?

- a ‘retirement visa’ doesn’t exist- it is an ‘extension of stay’

- a ‘marriage visa’ doesn’t exist - it is an ‘extension of stay’ etc …

- that ‘work’ consists of checking your bank statements - or not

- that ‘work’ consists of being a landlord, or an absentee x, y or z.

- that I ‘qualify’ because I receive my income from source ‘z’ (that isn’t explicitly included or excluded in any particular statement from the MFA or any consulate/embasssy) etc etc

Surely these points have been made countless times. Why would somebody make them - in response to a post that is seeking help and information? When both the original poster and the reader know full well what is being referred to?

2. You should get the correct visa or go home.

So many times in the forums, ‘John’ says ‘Bob’ is wrong for what he is doing. ‘John’ is applying some interpretation of ever-changing laws/implementations in one way - and nearly always in a way that is determined by how it affects their own personal situation - forgetting that - if the law or the implementation changed - they would be in the exact same situation as the person whose downfall they are celebrating. There is nothing written clearly in Thai law, as far as I understand, about economic activity such as - checking bank accounts, painting your own home, online work etc etc etc etc etc etc

3. Thailand doesn’t want you here - go home.

With the recent Tourist Visa changes, there have been pages and pages of posts whereby whole posts have been written on the basis of equating somebody who cannot provide an employer’s letter as a ‘waster’, a ‘layabout’ - somebody who is clearly a detriment to Thai society and the world in general. Perhaps a very good person recently got laid off through no fault of their own. Perhaps a very successful person just left a job as a career change. etc etc etc.

I don’t see the value in pages and pages of threads based on this kind of thing - which tends to be filled with negative value judgments that are based solely on preexisting prejudices. With repetition, this gets accepted as ‘fact’ and ‘real’ with no basis in reality.

The trouble, as I see it, is that, this gets mixed up with people who are in a situation where their lives are getting changed radically by new laws or implementations of laws, and instead of being offered constructive advice, are subjected to baiting - and unfortunately, and understandably, they get drawn into it. I previously thought that this was one of the purposes of a website like Thaivisa - to inform, enable shared information etc. However, it has looked to me like the person on the sidelines -the ‘holier than thou’ - on the ‘higher ground’ - who has nothing at stake - has been given free reign to taunt and bait the person who is faced with life-changing decisions.

One concrete example would be marriage. In most western or developed countries, the incidence of marriage is decreasing. More and more people, whether with children or not, are deciding to live together, perhaps for their whole lives, but not get married. However here, marriage is reduced to a ‘visa issue’ - I have seen so many posts along the lines of - ‘if you want to stay here, just get married’. Who, honestly, wants to get married, only, to obtain a visa? I would imagine that most people are more mature than that - and realise that if that is the main motivation behind a marriage, it doesn’t stand much of a chance - in any country.

The other obvious example, in the case of Thailand, would be ‘retirement’. I am still perplexed that those here on a ‘retirement xyz’ (if I say ‘visa’ they will say ‘there is no such thing etc’) - those who live here on the basis of the fact that they are aged over 50 and retired - how they truly believe that this is anything other than a 100% arbitrary piece of ‘law’ that can change at any time - and has no merit or basis in ‘real life’. If I am 49 years old and ‘fall foul’ of the new laws - and have the same financial situation as somebody aged 1 month older than me - that makes me ‘ineligible, wrong’ etc etc ???

I guess everybody who relies on a community such as Thaivisa - which is so valuable - has gripes etc such as these - but I would hope that this forum provides free reign to anybody who might like to discuss - separated from any particular issue.

Thanks,

[Crossy]

As this is not a visa question per-sé I'll move it to General for now.

[JDGRUEN]

Welcome to the Coots and Cranks Club... Mostly guys who have no life - drink way too much .. whose brains are devoid of serotonin from too much alcohol - too often... therefore they are irritable and angry and/or just naturally depressed. This attitude pervades every topic thread - even bird watching does not escape their venom and vile..

[athousand]

I have no life and drink too much too )))) I don't think that's any excuse

[athousand]

Unless you were referring to me - errrrrmmmmm - ahhhhh

[glegolo]

No not you..... He was refering to the original poster of course.

For me, i find it particurarly funny to read a post that find it not neccesary at all, to see the difference between a VISA and an extension of stay. By doing so, he shows clearly how uneducated he is what concerns The immigration-stuff here in Thailand, and by that losing most of his so called "points" in his post!!

Glegolo

[ezzra]

JDGRUEN, on 13 Nov 2015 - 07:08, said:

Welcome to the Coots and Cranks Club... Mostly guys who have no life - drink way too much .. whose brains are devoid of serotonin from too much alcohol - too often... therefore they are irritable and angry and/or just naturally depressed. This attitude pervades every topic thread - even bird watching does not escape their venom and vile..

I don't drink any more... but I don't drink any less either....

On a more serious note, TV members are like a family where when you have misunderstandings,

wrong or half wrong information, one always be wise to confirm with another source and not

relying solely on TV information before making important decisions....

[chrisinth]

OP, in all honesty, if you have problems with the information and advice provided in the Thai visas, residency and work permits sub forum on this site, as all your examples seem to be pointing, then IMO you are fighting a lost cause. i can't think of any other sub forum on here, with the possibility of Medical that gives clear and precise advice. You seem aggrieved that you may have to sift through the chaff a bit to find an answer?

The reason for the repetitive reference to correct terminology being used with reference to visas is that this is a progressive forum with new members joining every day who may not be aware of the difference between visas and extensions. This is important for newbies, so just be a bit patient with repeated information.

If you have a specific question that you can't find an answer to, start a thread for it to be addressed. I see by the number of posts you have, unless you are a 'revisited' member, you haven't done that yet. The number of posts reference is not meant to slight you in any way BTW.

And finally, it is a community forum and not just a personal reference site. Take your time, have patience and the answers will come to you.

Again, IMO, Admin & Mods do a great job here and discard most of the useless posts without interfering with an individual's POV, which is very important for a smooth running site.

[athousand]

Hi Chrisinth,

Your reply is a perfect example of what I'm talking about It is friendly , and helpful and without malice! That's exactly what I was hoping for when I started coming here.

I'm guessing that you don't spend much time on the 'visa' forums - where that kind of attitude seems to be distinctly lacking - and is what prompted the post in the first place.

Having frequented those areas recently, I have become utterly dissilusioned with the folks posting (in general - minus a few good folk who seem to be at the receiving end of neverending abuse).

I probably should have made a clear differentiation between 'visas' and the rest of the site. I have received nothing but helpful information from the rest of the site, however, venturing into the 'visa' area is another matter.

[CharlieH]

CLOSED !

I strongly suggest you read the forum rules.

Also,

10) Do not discuss moderation publicly in the open forum; this includes individual actions, and specific or general policies and issues. You may send a PM to a moderator to discuss individual actions or email support (at) thaivisa.com to discuss moderation policy.