Sanders transforms into contender, still pitches revolution

[chuckd]

To characterise Bernie as 'bitter' shows political bias. Sure he is pissed off with Superdelegates being locked into Pledged delegate votes essentially shutting down his challenge. Particularly as he has done so well. Also you have competitors getting massive media exposure because of deregulated media regulations. Right from the start these are points Bernie has made and he is accurate. The Democratic system is rigged on both sides of the political fence. Rather than demonise Bernie for pointing out the bleeding obvious people should really question and address the issue as to whether America is any longer a Democratic Nation. In my view it clearly is not a Democratic Nation.

Publicus well pointed out regarding the RNC now allowing funds / bribes to flow to Trumps General Election campaign. Looks like the meeting with Paul Ryan and Reince Priebus went well of course he would have to state the RNC pledge of allegiance:

"On accepting this bribe money I do solemnly swear to uphold and protect the interests of the wealthy elite and Corporate America who donated the bribes. So help me baby jesus"

" In my view it clearly is not a Democratic Nation."

Congratulations, you finally got something right about the US.

The US is not a democratic nation nor does it claim to be.

It is a Constitutional Republic.

It is both a Republic and a Democracy. Due to the corruption by the wealthy elite and Corporate America it currently is neither a Republic or a Democracy.

Also the Executive Branch of Government should be separate from the Judiciary. Again it is not, as partisan political Justices are appointed to do the bidding of Political agendas on both sides of politics.

Its a awful mess of Capitalists capturing the State and the Judiciary. The connection between the People and the State is broken.

[Publicus]

Perhaps we could get back to square one, i.e., the OP.

Sanders is snarling and angry when he should be a better example to his supporters and to the nation as he increasingly incites his crowds into choruses of booing.

Trump is an ignoramus, the uniquely American incarnation of Benito Mussolini as Trump wraps himself in the flag and holds out the cross.

Hillary Clinton is the only thing that stands between people who've lost their marbles (or never had any) and the great majority of us.

[hawker9000]

To characterise Bernie as 'bitter' shows political bias. Sure he is pissed off with Superdelegates being locked into Pledged delegate votes essentially shutting down his challenge. Particularly as he has done so well. Also you have competitors getting massive media exposure because of deregulated media regulations. Right from the start these are points Bernie has made and he is accurate. The Democratic system is rigged on both sides of the political fence. Rather than demonise Bernie for pointing out the bleeding obvious people should really question and address the issue as to whether America is any longer a Democratic Nation. In my view it clearly is not a Democratic Nation.

Publicus well pointed out regarding the RNC now allowing funds / bribes to flow to Trumps General Election campaign. Looks like the meeting with Paul Ryan and Reince Priebus went well of course he would have to state the RNC pledge of allegiance:

"On accepting this bribe money I do solemnly swear to uphold and protect the interests of the wealthy elite and Corporate America who donated the bribes. So help me baby jesus"

" In my view it clearly is not a Democratic Nation."

Congratulations, you finally got something right about the US.

The US is not a democratic nation nor does it claim to be.

It is a Constitutional Republic.

It is both a Republic and a Democracy. Due to the corruption by the wealthy elite and Corporate America it currently is neither a Republic or a Democracy.

Also the Executive Branch of Government should be separate from the Judiciary. Again it is not, as partisan political Justices are appointed to do the bidding of Political agendas on both sides of politics.

Its a awful mess of Capitalists capturing the State and the Judiciary. The connection between the People and the State is broken.

Trapped in 1964...

[hawker9000]

Perhaps we could get back to square one, i.e., the OP.

Sanders is snarling and angry when he should be a better example to his supporters and to the nation as he increasingly incites his crowds into choruses of booing.

Trump is an ignoramus, the uniquely American incarnation of Benito Mussolini as Trump wraps himself in the flag and holds out the cross.

Hillary Clinton is the only thing that stands between people who've lost their marbles (or never had any) and the great majority of us.

Sanders is snarling and angry...

Trump the ignoramus...

Hillary Clinton, the unlikeable and unindicted criminal... (you seem to have somehow left that out; you're welcome )

They're politicians, and politicians, ALL politicians (yes, even wingnut politicians <gasp>, have blemishes (to put it mildly...). 'Doesn't matter much though. MSM (and fellow wingnuts) can tar or airbrush whoever they want.

[sgtsabai]

Trump is nothing but a proto-fascist con man. Clintons are nothing but neoliberal/neocon con people. Bernie speaks truth to the power. Looking more and more like the Clintons will not reoccupy the White House, but Bernie would beat the proto-fascist hands down. By the DNC blocking of Bernie, the American people are going to get exactly what they deserve, 4 yrs. of hell as will the rest of the world. The Clintons have done nothing for the American people and never will. OK, mistake, they've done plenty for American people in big finance etc. Those that think the Trump will be blocked in Congress better think again. Yep Hillary will be and Bernie acknowledges that without help so will he. Bernie will carry the Senate and seats in the House, the Clintons will lose them. Game over. Bernie is no fringe candidate, he is what the real Democrat Party used to be. And yes, the Democrat Primary is rigged.

[jmd8800]

Not long after the 2016 election........

[sirineou]

Not long after the 2016 election........

gbuiofhcdqp6trmls1sm.jpg

I disagree,

I dont know why you would think that, but I am sure there will still be people in dirty clothing looking upwards after the 2016 election.

Edited May 22, 2016 by sirineou

[taony]

The last hope we have is Sanders changes his mind and runs as an Independent or becomes the Green Party candidate

[Jingthing]

The last hope we have is Sanders changes his mind and runs as an Independent or becomes the Green Party candidate

Last hope to give the vile orange monster a landslide? Madness!

[sgtsabai]

The proto-fascist orange monster may win without Bernie going 3rd party. The Clintons are dropping in all polls against the proto-fascist. Bernie remains in double digit figures, go figure. The "formal" inclusion of Bill who was instrumental, with the help of Hillary, in the destruction of working/middle class and the rise of Wall Street/bankster criminals will not help. Here is far too much reading that accumulated while I was up in Nong Khai for a little "R&R". The Clintons supporters may not like some of it, the right wing won't like any of it...lol............ . http://billmoyers.com/story/democrats-cant-unite-unless-wasserman-schultz-goes/

https://consortiumnews.com/2016/05/21/hillary-clintons-house-of-cards/

http://fair.org/home/article-on-sanders-complaints-about-journalism-demonstrates-why-sanders-complains-about-journalism/

http://www.nationofchange.org/news/2016/05/20/make-democratic-nominating-process-actually-democratic/

http://fair.org/home/first-do-some-harm-how-to-smear-a-disfavored-candidate-on-nyts-front-page/

http://www.commondreams.org/news/2016/05/20/why-voters-might-respectfully-disagree-clintons-declaration-victory

http://money.cnn.com/2016/05/20/news/economy/puerto-rico-hillary-clinton/

http://www.opednews.com/populum/printer_friendly.php?content=a&id=202691

http://www.opednews.com/populum/printer_friendly.php?content=a&id=202687

https://berniesanders.com/issues/puerto-rico/

http://www.opednews.com/populum/printer_friendly.php?content=a&id=202668

https://viewpointmag.com/2016/05/11/the-afterbern/

[taony]

The last hope we have is Sanders changes his mind and runs as an Independent or becomes the Green Party candidate

Last hope to give the vile orange monster a landslide? Madness!

Could be interesting. You might see Republicans jumping ship to vote for him and not just Democrats. I'm also starting to wonder if the vile orange monster (trump right, not that beiner guy?55) might be the lesser of two evils? Hillary will be more of the same crap and devastation. I can't imagine trump getting much done. He's going to have a hard time getting people to go along with him. And if he's lesa of a war monger and anti-nato, I'm all for that. Let him close hundreds of military bases because the hosting countries don't pay enough (unfortunately fat chance of that happening though ).

Of course, i am just hoping for the best and its not Armageddon.

[jmd8800]

@JT... some of us consider Hillary just as vile as Trump.

Hillary has a proven track record of being a very destructive force in the world. Trump so far just talks a lot of crap and is pretty much a rich con man.

The Wall St /investor class, arms manufacturers, etc are just hoping Hillary will get elected. Business as usual.

[Jingthing]

@JT... some of us consider Hillary just as vile as Trump.

Hillary has a proven track record of being a very destructive force in the world. Trump so far just talks a lot of crap and is pretty much a rich con man.

The Wall St /investor class, arms manufacturers, etc are just hoping Hillary will get elected. Business as usual.

But she isn't. Not even close. I realize some Sanders supporters are as nihilistic as trump supporters and just want to BLOW EVERYTHING UP for entertainment purposes. That's tragic and they can't be helped. But there is still plenty of time to stop trump.

This is from a VERY LEFTIST commentator who has been very supportive of Sanders, but that game is OVER ... time to focus on stopping trump.

It’s that Trump is a danger to the Republic. He doesn’t understand the basic functions of government, including the relationship between the civilian and military echelons, the role of the Constitution and the rule of law. He doesn’t understand the meaning of international treaties and America’s legal obligations on matters like torture and refugees.

...

No, this is no ordinary election, because Trump is no ordinary candidate. Everyone with a stake in democracy — candidates, leaders of both parties, activist groups, religious groups including Jewish organizations — should stop treating it and him like business as usual, and focus on the fate of the Republic.

http://forward.com/articles/341050/hillary-and-bernie-dont-hand-election-to-donald-trump-on-a-silver-platter/?attribution=home-hero-item-text-3

[Jingthing]

The last hope we have is Sanders changes his mind and runs as an Independent or becomes the Green Party candidate

Last hope to give the vile orange monster a landslide? Madness!

Could be interesting. You might see Republicans jumping ship to vote for him and not just Democrats. I'm also starting to wonder if the vile orange monster (trump right, not that beiner guy?55) might be the lesser of two evils? Hillary will be more of the same crap and devastation. I can't imagine trump getting much done. He's going to have a hard time getting people to go along with him. And if he's lesa of a war monger and anti-nato, I'm all for that. Let him close hundreds of military bases because the hosting countries don't pay enough (unfortunately fat chance of that happening though ).

Of course, i am just hoping for the best and its not Armageddon.

With due respect, do you have even a basic understanding of how the U.S. political system works?

The republican party already has the senate and the house and if trump wins they will keep the senate and the house and then have the power to pick multiple supreme court justices that make the U.S. even more right wing for generations to come.

trump is clearly running as a STRONG MAN leader leading a populist American FASCIST movement who viciously destroys people who don't go along ... based on his sick personality, it's easy to imagine that he would BULLY the congress if he wins.

How could someone support a socialist like Sanders, who is by U.S. standards, VERY left wing, and not be concerned about the damage from that?

I get the lack of enthusiasm for Clinton. I don't get the naivete behind not seeing the MUCH GREATER DANGER of trump.

This is a moment of "what did you do in the war Daddy" for Americans. Sensible Americans will work very hard to avoid this fascist takeover ... whether you have to hold your nose for Hillary or not.

The dangerous nihilism of Trump voters

To the contrary, the voter nihilism that Trump both reflects and stimulates is a symptom of political decay. “He’s not perfect, but anyone would be better than this corrupt bunch,” is the sort of thing many Italians said, once upon a time, about Silvio Berlusconi, or Russians about Vladi­mir Putin, or Venezuelans about Hugo Chávez.

Let’s end the historical analogizing there; it’s enough to show how often the cry of “blow the system to hell” has gone up among peoples living in freedom and democracy, sometimes just before they lost both.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-dangerous-nihilism-of-trump-voters/2016/05/04/0cf3fbe8-1212-11e6-8967-7ac733c56f12_story.html

Edited May 22, 2016 by Jingthing

[sgtsabai]

Better go back and read the links I posted. I'm a Bernie supporter yes, but it isn't Bernie that will keep me from voting for the lying neocon/neoliberal tool of Wall Street/bankster criminals. I wouldn't have voted for her in the 1st place and neither should anybody else that believes in America. Yes, the proto-fascist orange monster is worse, but how much? Two degrees of evil, neither the lessor, just different. They will in their own way destroy what little is left of what was supposed to be America. The "people" brought this on themselves with the appointment of Cheney/Bush et al and are now reaping the whirlwind. It will get worse. Yes, the used to be Supreme Court is extremely important and the orange monster has shown what right wingnuts he wants to appoint. Yes worse than the Clinton's right wing corporate appointments, by a fraction. America is running out of time, the empire is crumbling.

[boomerangutang]

@JT... some of us consider Hillary just as vile as Trump.

Hillary has a proven track record of being a very destructive force in the world. Trump so far just talks a lot of crap and is pretty much a rich con man.

The Wall St /investor class, arms manufacturers, etc are just hoping Hillary will get elected. Business as usual.

How has HRC "....a proven track record of being a very destructive force in the world."

What has she done that's been very destructive? She's made some decisions she would like to re-make (such as supporting Cheney's Iraq II war based on faulty evidence). She's human. We've all made decisions we would like to go back and change, whether we're politicians or not.

Saying she's been 'very destructive' is just echoing Fox News and the Republican Attack Machine. Please list one or more things which she's done which have proven to be very destructive." Something tells me you can't.

In case you hadn't noticed, Trump has hired a Goldman Sachs exec to head his efforts to milk a billion or more dollars from very rich Wall Streeters. By doing that, he's blatantly cancelling several promises he made to his sheeple fans.

[willyumiii]

@JT... some of us consider Hillary just as vile as Trump.

Hillary has a proven track record of being a very destructive force in the world. Trump so far just talks a lot of crap and is pretty much a rich con man.

The Wall St /investor class, arms manufacturers, etc are just hoping Hillary will get elected. Business as usual.

How has HRC "....a proven track record of being a very destructive force in the world."

What has she done that's been very destructive? She's made some decisions she would like to re-make (such as supporting Cheney's Iraq II war based on faulty evidence). She's human. We've all made decisions we would like to go back and change, whether we're politicians or not.

Saying she's been 'very destructive' is just echoing Fox News and the Republican Attack Machine. Please list one or more things which she's done which have proven to be very destructive." Something tells me you can't.

In case you hadn't noticed, Trump has hired a Goldman Sachs exec to head his efforts to milk a billion or more dollars from very rich Wall Streeters. By doing that, he's blatantly cancelling several promises he made to his sheeple fans.

"In case you hadn't noticed, Trump has hired a Goldman Sachs exec to head his efforts

In case you have not noticed, Goldman Sachs is covering all the bases here.

Goldman Sachs is also Hillary's second largest contributor to her campaign.

And some people actually do not believe that big banks and corporations own our government?

[willyumiii]

America has never really been a democratic nation..that is ever was is a misconception.

America is a republic, not a democracy.

In a republic, people chose representatives who actually do the voting.

Those representatives are not required to vote the way the people who chose them would have voted and often do not.

This is why a candidate can win the popular vote and still not win the office in America

[chuckd]

@JT... some of us consider Hillary just as vile as Trump.

Hillary has a proven track record of being a very destructive force in the world. Trump so far just talks a lot of crap and is pretty much a rich con man.

The Wall St /investor class, arms manufacturers, etc are just hoping Hillary will get elected. Business as usual.

How has HRC "....a proven track record of being a very destructive force in the world."

What has she done that's been very destructive? She's made some decisions she would like to re-make (such as supporting Cheney's Iraq II war based on faulty evidence). She's human. We've all made decisions we would like to go back and change, whether we're politicians or not.

Saying she's been 'very destructive' is just echoing Fox News and the Republican Attack Machine. Please list one or more things which she's done which have proven to be very destructive." Something tells me you can't.

In case you hadn't noticed, Trump has hired a Goldman Sachs exec to head his efforts to milk a billion or more dollars from very rich Wall Streeters. By doing that, he's blatantly cancelling several promises he made to his sheeple fans.

" Please list one or more things which she's done which have proven to be very destructive." Something tells me you can't."

Here you go. All wrapped up in a 42 second video.

[sgtsabai]

Like I said before, this cluster f..... of an election is not even a choice between the lessor of 2 evils, it is a choice between 2 different evils. Bernie is the only choice, the Green Party is not on the ballet in enough states. If they were on the ballet in all 50 states I could see the possibility of Bernie running and winning on their ticket. Unfortunately the "Libertarian" Party is. Those are votes that would have gone to the Republican Party anyway. Interesting read by Jonathan Turley: https://jonathanturley.org/2016/05/23/poll-58-percent-of-voters-considering-someone-other-than-trump-or-clinton/

[CWMcMurray]

Hopefully these polls showing Clinton continue to slip against Trump will make super delegates realize...

A vote for Hillary is just helping Trump..

I vote for Bernie stops Trump cold..

If the most important thing To the DNC and other democrats is to avoid a Trump presidency at all costs.. Then get the super delegates to vote for Bernie

Certainly not a majority , but there are many democrats that would vote Trump over Hillary

But none that I have heard that would vote Trump over Bernie

Even long time Dem strategist Harlan Hill has advised will vote for Trump over Hillary

https://m.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/4fwtdu/harlan_hill_democratic_strategist_and_former/

[Publicus]

The last hope we have is Sanders changes his mind and runs as an Independent or becomes the Green Party candidate

Let's get real about an independent candidate.

It is past time to get on the ballot in all but a very few states of the Union. Too late for a spur of the moment independent candidacy. Meaning last minute sorehead losers in the campaign process are not welcome.

Anyone who might want to vote for an independent candidate, aka, a 'third party' or its nominated candidate, would need to look at an existing 'third party' that has already qualified to be on the ballot, in either most states or all the states.

It would appear that the Libertarian party will be it in this election. The ultimate impact of perhaps as many as 15% of the electorate voting for the Libertarian party as a protest vote against the two major parties and each candidate would likely be a wash, i.e. neither major party candidate would be adversely impacted.

The goal of the Libertarian party in this particular election cycle would be of course to deny either major candidate enough electoral votes to throw the outcome into the US House of Representatives as provided in the Constitution. This is highly risky however because, as we saw in the year 2000 Potus election, the Supreme Court likes to intervene unconstitutionally to give each of its members two votes in the election of the Potus.

[Publicus]

Hopefully these polls showing Clinton continue to slip against Trump will make super delegates realize...

A vote for Hillary is just helping Trump..

I vote for Bernie stops Trump cold..

If the most important thing To the DNC and other democrats is to avoid a Trump presidency at all costs.. Then get the super delegates to vote for Bernie

Certainly not a majority , but there are many democrats that would vote Trump over Hillary

But none that I have heard that would vote Trump over Bernie

Even long time Dem strategist Harlan Hill has advised will vote for Trump over Hillary

https://m.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/4fwtdu/harlan_hill_democratic_strategist_and_former/

Trump is your Number One eh.

Bernie is your Number Two.

Two guys on opposite extremes makes the preference more than curious.

The Democratic party established ex officio convention delegates after Sen. George McGovern won one state in 1972 and after former vp Walter Mondale won one state in 1984.

Ex officio convention delegates are almost entirely elected officials local, state, federal. They have won elections and it is furthermore the safe presumption currently elected officials at each level of government know how to win elections.

Bernie Sanders is the Independent US Senator elected from Vermont who has never been a member of either political party. Sanders has loudly and long denounced ex officio delegates. Yet Sanders now wants the ex officio delegates to switch to him even though HRC will enter the convention with more pledged delegates won in the primaries and caucuses and more total raw votes than Sanders has received or will receive.

Bernie btw has long since gone off the deep end of personal reason and of any political realism or balance.

Edited May 23, 2016 by Publicus

[boomerangutang]

How has HRC "....a proven track record of being a very destructive force in the world."

What has she done that's been very destructive?

I've re-posted my Q (above) which no one can answer. I saw the HRC recording and didn't see anything dangerous about it. Not even anything incriminating. As usual Chuckd is shooting blanks. Trump fans are trying so feverishly to pin something bad on HRC that they wind up soiling themselves.

What is her proven track record of being very destructive? Trump fans can sling truckloads of mud, but they can't submit anything tangible to answer that question.

[Publicus]

America has never really been a democratic nation..that is ever was is a misconception.

America is a republic, not a democracy.

In a republic, people chose representatives who actually do the voting.

Those representatives are not required to vote the way the people who chose them would have voted and often do not.

This is why a candidate can win the popular vote and still not win the office in America

In a republic, people chose representatives who actually do the voting.

There is a significant difference between the American Republic and the Democratic People's Republic of Korea or, in another specific instance, the People's Republic of China, not to mention the Republic of Zimbabwe.

Membership of the Electoral College is under the Constitution a matter for each state to determine, wholly and completely. The Feds assign the number of EC electors to each state then have nothing more to do with it.

EC members are chosen in each state by voters in each state. Each state runs its own election of the Potus as the Feds have nothing to do with it, despite the Supreme Court unconstitutionally interposing itself in the year 2000 Potus election by which each justice gave him/her self two votes for Potus.

So the EC is the indirect popular election of a Potus and vice president. European Union does the same thing to elect its president.

EC electors in the USA are selected by each political party. Federal officials appointed or elected need not apply because they are prohibited from EC membership (conflict of interest).

The problem referenced in the post occurs only when the popular vote is ignored or circumvented. For instance, in this election of Potus Trump's only hope is that the election gets thrown into the US House of Representatives where, unlike the representation of each state, each state gets one vote only. In this election, that would mean Trump would be chosen by the House and would take the oath of office.

Throwing any election to the US House turned out early on in the Republic to be absurd which is a major reason two major parties emerged to divvy up the (since 1911) total 538 EC votes with 270 of 'em required to be elected Potus.

The problem with people who support Bernie Sanders is that he has lost. Bernie is being an obvious sore loser so one hopes his supporters will get beyond Bernie to get over him, it and themselves.

[sgtsabai]

boomerangutang I thought I had posted Clinton's trail of destruction sometime back, if not I'll try to find the article again. In the meantime, exactly what the hell has she accomplished. Oh, you might think of Libia as one. How about the repeal of Glass-Steagal, the "welfare reform", the prison bill that has led to the school to prison pipeline, NAFTA. Her support for bombing hell out of any country she doesn't like in the mid-east. Ok, I'll look for the long list.

[sgtsabai]

I was looking for one article in particular that was detailed in all her many failures but I haven't located it. In the meantime have a nice read with these:

"Citizens need to know and understand the foreign policy backgrounds and positions of Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton. The U.S. has spent trillions on wars and foreign "interventions" in pursuit of geopolitical goals in the Middle East, supported by Hillary, not supported by Bernie. The result of those trillions spent is hundreds of thousands dead, unimaginable pain and suffering, great destruction and environmental degradation, and refugees on a scale not seen since WWll. The result is also much more hate and instability. With Hillary's enthusiastic support, the U.S. spent trillions to make the U.S. and the world less safe."

http://www.truth-out...-gop-objectives

http://inthesetimes.com/article/19118/the-progressive-case-for-hillary-clinton-isnt-much-of-a-case-at-all

https://consortiumnews.com/2016/05/13/democrats-too-clever-by-half-on-clinton/

http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/05/03/hillary-clintons-foreign-policy-resume-what-the-record-shows/

http://www.opednews.com/articles/If-it-had-been-up-to-Hilla-by-Philip-Weiss-Hillary-Clinton_Iran-Nuclear-Deal_Iran-President-Hassan-Rouhani_Iran-Versus-Israel-160504-107.html

https://dispatchesfromtheedgeblog.wordpress.com/2016/02/01/hillary-and-the-urn-of-ashes/

http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=15493

http://www.salon.com/2016/01/31/the_clintons_sordid_race_game_no_one_will_say_it_but_the_clintons_rise_was_premised_on_repudiating_black_voters/

http://www.truthdig.com/report/print/the_real_hillary_clinton_20160424

http://www.foreignpolicy-info.com/

https://consortiumnews.com/2016/04/16/yes-hillary-clinton-is-a-neocon/

http://www.opednews.com/populum/printer_friendly.php?content=a&id=201363

http://www.opednews.com/populum/printer_friendly.php?content=a&id=201352

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/print/66773/

https://consortiumnews.com/2016/04/08/is-hillary-clinton-qualified/

https://consortiumnews.com/2016/02/21/clintons-experience-fact-and-fantasy/

[Jingthing]

I think we get it. Most core Sanders fans detest Hillary Clinton. But the logic of supporting the vile beast against Clinton in the actual general election still seems to me not to be there. I don't actually believe it will happen. Maybe 10 percent will, and the big question will be what percentage just don't vote.

Edited May 23, 2016 by Jingthing

[Publicus]

I think we get it. Most core Sanders fans detest Hillary Clinton. But the logic of supporting the vile beast against Clinton in the actual general election still seems to me not to be there. I don't actually believe it will happen. Maybe 10 percent will, and the big question will be what percentage just don't vote.

HRC is working hard to position herself to inherit the Sanders voters. She knows she won't get all of 'em but as with any candidate, HRC wants to draw as many votes as are possible. Very significantly however, HRC also knows she doesn't need most of 'em.

HRC needs the Obama coalition and everyone in their right mind knows that will be more than enough. That has been the Clinton campaign fail safe and default position from the start more than a year ago. Before then in fact.

The dynamic of the election will change radically after the conventions, which as you too would know from years of experience in these things is always the case. In addition to HRC campaigning with her choice of vp, the D's will moreover have campaigning in the key constituencies Bill Himself, President Obama, and last but not least Bernie Sanders.

Tough for the R's to beat under any circumstances with any of the original 17.

[sgtsabai]

Most thinking people detest the Clintons, period. I think you are on the right track about voting, but come up short on the % that won't vote for the Clintons. I don't think many if any will switch vote to the orange monster. I will vote, not for the proto-fascist Trump nor the neoliberal/neocon tool of Wall Street criminals/banksters Clintons. I will vote to recapture the Senate and gain seats in the house. With Clinton as the candidate I'm afraid that is a lost cause and the election may also be. Clinton can't carry the independents, and many Democrats will not vote for her or vote at all.