Sanders transforms into contender, still pitches revolution

[sgtsabai]

I certainly wouldn't bet the farm on Bernie campaigning for the Clintons. Bill has lost his charm and progressive recognize him for what he is, a Republican like Hillary. Hillary is working hard to distance herself from Bernie supporters, as is the DNC. They seem to be doing everything they can to cause them to turn away. They may think they don't need them, check the latest polls, Hillary going down, down, down. Bernie still well up against the proto-fascist orange monster. The corporate blue dawg DNC has made a mistake, a big one. Better go back and check my post from Jonathan Turley. You are right about one thing, the "dynamics" will change. Clinton will swing back to her right wing corporate self and screw all progressives, working/middle class people just like Bill did.

[sgtsabai]

May I suggest a link that does NOT support a theory of Clinton working hard to "inherit" Bernie's supporters. http://billmoyers.com/story/democrats-cant-unite-unless-wasserman-schultz-goes/

[helpisgood]

May I suggest a link that does NOT support a theory of Clinton working hard to "inherit" Bernie's supporters. http://billmoyers.com/story/democrats-cant-unite-unless-wasserman-schultz-goes/

Good article, Sarge! I have always liked Bill Moyers Journal.

By the way, that article linked to another one about how several politicians are now also challenging the established corporate Dems. Even if he never gets the Dem nomination, he should get credit for helping to encourage others, pols and voters, to fight back against big money in politics. Let's just hope that more of the electorate wakes up to what has happened to the Democratic Party.

As Bernie has said, “We need, win or lose for me, a political revolution which starts electing people who are accountable to the working families of this country.” Yes, and not accountable to Goldman Sachs, et al.

Here's that article:

http://billmoyers.com/story/bigger-bernie-progressives-taking-establishment/

[sgtsabai]

Unlike the Clintons and the prot-fascist orange monster, Bernie has always said it is not about him. You don't hear the "I" crap all the time from him. He has made it clear from the git-go without the people he can do nothing. No bulls.... just the facts.

[CWMcMurray]

Hopefully these polls showing Clinton continue to slip against Trump will make super delegates realize...

A vote for Hillary is just helping Trump..

I vote for Bernie stops Trump cold..

If the most important thing To the DNC and other democrats is to avoid a Trump presidency at all costs.. Then get the super delegates to vote for Bernie

Certainly not a majority , but there are many democrats that would vote Trump over Hillary

But none that I have heard that would vote Trump over Bernie

Even long time Dem strategist Harlan Hill has advised will vote for Trump over Hillary

https://m.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/4fwtdu/harlan_hill_democratic_strategist_and_former/

Trump is your Number One eh.

Bernie is your Number Two.

Two guys on opposite extremes makes the preference more than curious.

The Democratic party established ex officio convention delegates after Sen. George McGovern won one state in 1972 and after former vp Walter Mondale won one state in 1984.

Ex officio convention delegates are almost entirely elected officials local, state, federal. They have won elections and it is furthermore the safe presumption currently elected officials at each level of government know how to win elections.

Bernie Sanders is the Independent US Senator elected from Vermont who has never been a member of either political party. Sanders has loudly and long denounced ex officio delegates. Yet Sanders now wants the ex officio delegates to switch to him even though HRC will enter the convention with more pledged delegates won in the primaries and caucuses and more total raw votes than Sanders has received or will receive.

Bernie btw has long since gone off the deep end of personal reason and of any political realism or balance.

Actually you have that backwards ... First choice is Bernie

Although if no Bernie in General election, they will likely go for Trump

I understand that Hillary will likely have more pledged delegates and win the nomination

Although some posters feel that Trump needs to be stopped at all costs..

My opinion is that best way to stop Trump is to elect Bernie

But while many say that the most important thing for them is to stop Trump.. There support for Hillary proves that wrong

As picking her as Democratic nominee gives Trump a chance to become president

[NovaBlue05]

^{Tell it like it is Bernie, DWS is a vile, despicable creature. She should be Clinton's campaign manager rather than DNC head}

^{http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/22/us/politics/sanderss-feud-with-the-democratic-leadership-heats-up.html?_r=0}

[sgtsabai]

More on the "unity" being pushed by Clinton et al, ok the first link isn't, but it is significant....... .



https://consortiumnews.com/2016/05/23/intel-vets-urge-fast-report-on-clintons-emails/

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/05/23/bernie-sanders-risks-berning-bridges-in-senate.html?via=newsletter&source=DDMorning

https://ourfuture.org/20160523/what-does-bernie-want?utm_source=progressive_breakfast&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=pbreak

[uptheos]

Hilary ought to get rid of that Debbie what ever her name is.

One person not being able to answer the difference between a socialist and democrat is bad enough, but TWO leading figures Hilary and Debbie) not being able to answer must be embarrassing the party.

[Freakin Musashi]

Here is a little food for thought to those that might be burdened with paying for Bernie's give away programs.

Yes, the same way we pay for our overwhelmingly superior military. Except this might actually help the average citizen.

[Freakin Musashi]

If Bernie winds up in the Oval Office, his main problem is that he has almost no support in the Senate and Congress. He has a grand total of ONE senators endorsing him. Based on that, how much luck would he have getting his programs through. Slim or none?
His supporters should focus on getting more progressives into local offices. That's what we call grass-roots.

[up2u2]

Here is a little food for thought to those that might be burdened with paying for Bernie's give away programs.

How many times does publicly funded tuition fees (not free) have to be explained to you chuckd? Just interested to know if you will ever get your head around the concept within your lifetime?

[sgtsabai]

Bernie's supporters and Bernie are and have been supporting local progressive candidates. One is Tim Canova: http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2016/05/23/dws-primary-opponent-raises-250k-after-bernie-endorsement.html?via=newsletter&source=CSPMedition ..... . Oh, to the idea that Bernie won't be able to get anything done, why think the Clintons would? They are hated, yet are Republicans. Bernie has never said I will do, unlike the Clintons or the proto-fascist. He has always said with the help of the people. A little on the unfavorables and another article about how the Clintons and the DNC are NOT trying to bring Bernie supporters and independents into the fold. Unless the DNC gets it's head out of it's ass and dumps the Clintons the US and the world may have a proto-fascist as president. Sad state of affairs.....http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-clinton-poised-battle-disliked-nominees-decades/story?id=39306014

http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/36128-can-the-democrats-win-without-the-berniecrats

[sgtsabai]

ABC link didn't come through: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-clinton-poised-battle-disliked-nominees-decades/story?id=39306014

[jmd8800]

Here is a little food for thought to those that might be burdened with paying for Bernie's give away programs.

How many times does publicly funded tuition fees (not free) have to be explained to you chuckd? Just interested to know if you will ever get your head around the concept within your lifetime?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land-grant_university

I grew up in Ohio and Ohio State Univ was a land grant uni. I knew from an early age that higher education was available to me at a cost cheaper than private universities .... by far. Also, any high school senior who was graduating from an Ohio high school and was a resident of Ohio would be accepted into OSU. That did not mean one could stay in the uni, that person had to maintain a good standing or be dismissed. Honestly, a very good education was dirt cheap and funded mostly by taxes in the state and some federal taxes as well.

I would venture to say that one of the best ideas ever was the land grant college/university. I am guessing one of the results of "The Morrill Acts" was a better prepared workforce when the US entered the Progressive Era.

For those who think it is a far stretch to have free or close to free universities in the US... consider this: I think it is harder to explain why we ever got rid of them in the first place.

Oh right.... neoliberalism strikes again. Take something that belongs to the public and privatize it. OSU is now admission by selection and host huge research centers for private industry. And quite expensive.

[jmd8800]

How has HRC "....a proven track record of being a very destructive force in the world."

What has she done that's been very destructive?

I've re-posted my Q (above) which no one can answer. I saw the HRC recording and didn't see anything dangerous about it. Not even anything incriminating. As usual Chuckd is shooting blanks. Trump fans are trying so feverishly to pin something bad on HRC that they wind up soiling themselves.

What is her proven track record of being very destructive? Trump fans can sling truckloads of mud, but they can't submit anything tangible to answer that question.

Sorry to take so much time away from my computer. I didn't know there was a time limit on replies before someone gets their panties in a bunch. :-)

I was the poster who said that. Chuckd and I are polar opposites. I am a socialist if one defines socialism as Albert Einstein writes about socialism:

http://monthlyreview.org/2009/05/01/why-socialism/

But even today, I'm looking at other options of self governance and not stuck in the 3 isms. Or for that matter: money

------------

As to the "we came, we saw, he died" this is hubris on steroids. Much like Albright's "It was worth the price" when talking about the death of 500,000 Iraqi children under age 5 due to western sanctions after the first gulf war. For me these statements show a psycho/social pathology. I'm not a mental health care professional so don't ask me to back that up.... it is gut instinct.

As for links I think SgtSabi has posted enough to let people read. I'll add a couple more:

http://www.thenation.com/article/left-ought-worry-about-hillary-clinton-hawk-and-militarist-2016/

"But we don’t need a memoir to know that, comparatively speaking, two things can be said about her tenure at the State Department: first, that in fact she accomplished very little; and second, that both before her appointment and during her service, she consistently came down on the hawkish side of debates inside the administration, from Afghanistan to Libya and Syria. She’s also taken a more hawkish line than Obama on Ukraine and the confrontation with Russia."

http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2016/01/06/new-hillary-emails-reveal-true-motive-for-libya-intervention/

Hillary was quite a bit more hawkish on Iran than probably need be. I'd guess political posturing for 2016. If someone is political posturing... that is disingenuous at best. Others her accept that politicians misrepresent themselves..or outright lie to people kind of like used car salesmen, but I don't accept. Since Reagan this has been standard politics as usual. And it has be a big factor in destroying our political system.

Hillary is going to have Bill fix the economy? Oh boy... in my opinion Bill did a lot to destroy the economy. Not for the Wall St / investor class but the average person. If she now uses Bill's policies or actions then she is in agreement with him. I don't think Bill left a good legacy.

Hillary is a staunch supporter of Israel. Every time Israel wants to 'mow the lawn' she falls in lock step.

Truthfully Hillary is an extension on the US government and does not have a history of challenging US policy in any areas really. She is a mouthpiece for the US just by nature of her job. And since she never objects to anything I read it as supporting the US policy. (her teflon)

I'll compromise with you saying Hillary isn't responsible, she just willingly represented the US gov't. Whom I happen to think is the largest terrorist group on the planet.

[thaihome]

Most thinking people detest the Clintons, period. ...

That statement is an oxymoron fed by some 25 years of rabid demagoguery propaganda by the conservative entertainment industry.

Bill won two presidential elections and Hillary was twice elected to the US Senate. So obviously, lots of thinking people don't detest the Clintons.

No other politician in history has been subjected over such a time period to the attacks by such a hate filled fringe. It is the classic case of tell a lie often enough over a long time that it becomes perceived as some sort of fact.

TH

[sgtsabai]

No, I said thinking people. People that vote for the Clintons do not think, although they may think they think. I do not and have never listened to the right wingnut propaganda. In fact I have often said, why lie when there are plenty of real reasons for intensely disliking a politician, president etc. The information is and has been out there on the real problems with the Clintons, just as it was with Cheney/Bush et al and Obama.

[chuckd]

Here is a little food for thought to those that might be burdened with paying for Bernie's give away programs.

How many times does publicly funded tuition fees (not free) have to be explained to you chuckd? Just interested to know if you will ever get your head around the concept within your lifetime?

I'll consider that as soon as you realize my post was made over four months ago.

I know enough about his plans to know they would never work even if Congress was dumb enough to try and pass them.

The Tax Foundation saying his socialist plans will raise taxes over the next decade by an estimated $13.6 Trillion makes that little cartoon spot on for those perceptive enough to understand the federal government is a massive Cost Center.

They have no Profit Center

Refresh my memory again...you are Australian, right?

You won't be subject to US taxes and any children and grandchildren will be debt free and not subject to those nasty taxes

And that, dear readers, is why up2u2 is such a Bernie fan...it won't personally cost him one penny.

Socialism at its finest.

http://taxfoundation.org/article/details-and-analysis-senator-bernie-sanders-s-tax-plan

[lannarebirth]

Here is a little food for thought to those that might be burdened with paying for Bernie's give away programs.

How many times does publicly funded tuition fees (not free) have to be explained to you chuckd? Just interested to know if you will ever get your head around the concept within your lifetime?

I'll consider that as soon as you realize my post was made over four months ago.

I know enough about his plans to know they would never work even if Congress was dumb enough to try and pass them.

The Tax Foundation saying his socialist plans will raise taxes over the next decade by an estimated $13.6 Trillion makes that little cartoon spot on for those perceptive enough to understand the federal government is a massive Cost Center.

They have no Profit Center

Refresh my memory again...you are Australian, right?

You won't be subject to US taxes and any children and grandchildren will be debt free and not subject to those nasty taxes

And that, dear readers, is why up2u2 is such a Bernie fan...it won't personally cost him one penny.

Socialism at its finest.

http://taxfoundation.org/article/details-and-analysis-senator-bernie-sanders-s-tax-plan

Your failing Chuck, is that you fail to see that Bernie's inability to accomplish very much is his greatest strength. He'll never get his "free college for all". But what if he were able to limit the influence of money on politics? Surely you'd agree that's a good thing.

I don't know your finances Chuck, but I'd be willing to bet, that I pay more US income taxes than you. I don't mind paying those taxes, so long as I think it is for the betterment of the society. My opinion is Chuck, that there shouldn't be even a dime paid for Medicare, so long as there isn't Universal Healthcare for everyone else. If you're not taking care of everybody you shouldn't be taking care of anybody. The old people are stealing from the young, and that's just not right.

What if the only thing a Sander's presidency were able to accomplish was campaign finance reform? Or a dialogue about Universal Healthcare? Or the exposition of the billions upon billions of dollars in corporate welfare. That would be something wouldn't it?

[up2u2]

Here is a little food for thought to those that might be burdened with paying for Bernie's give away programs.

How many times does publicly funded tuition fees (not free) have to be explained to you chuckd? Just interested to know if you will ever get your head around the concept within your lifetime?

I'll consider that as soon as you realize my post was made over four months ago.

I know enough about his plans to know they would never work even if Congress was dumb enough to try and pass them.

The Tax Foundation saying his socialist plans will raise taxes over the next decade by an estimated $13.6 Trillion makes that little cartoon spot on for those perceptive enough to understand the federal government is a massive Cost Center.

They have no Profit Center

Refresh my memory again...you are Australian, right?

You won't be subject to US taxes and any children and grandchildren will be debt free and not subject to those nasty taxes

And that, dear readers, is why up2u2 is such a Bernie fan...it won't personally cost him one penny.

Socialism at its finest.

http://taxfoundation.org/article/details-and-analysis-senator-bernie-sanders-s-tax-plan

I take it that is never.

The Tax Foundation is a conga line of Big Pharma (Vice President Elli Lilli), retired Republican 'trough gobblers' (Bill Archer Rep. Phillip English Rep.) and Corporate America 'greed is good' Right Wing tossers. Give me a break Chuckd.

Of course publicly funded education, health care, prison system do not have a 'Profit Center' that's the whole idea. It cuts out the Corporate leaches from what are an essential service to the education, health and safety of a Nation. Absolutely no place for Corporate geed to occupy in a modern society.

My support for Bernie is purely altruistic on the part of the American people. However, a strong America is good for the world. America spending less on military makes for a safer world. It will not cost me a penny but it will save American people billions upon billions each year and more affordable health care with better patient care.

The Tax Foundation. Give me strength. These phony Right Wing politically biased foundations and Institutes need a rocket put up them.

Bernie needs to put them on his list.

[sgtsabai]

up2u2, damn, you beat me to it...lol. The lies about being unable to fund Bernie's New Deal programs have been throughly debunked. Then again, the right wingnuts can't/won't accept or recognize the truth. Their minds are stuck back in the scumbag McCarthy era and cold war propaganda. Like Peter Pan, never to grow, mentally.

[chuckd]

Here is a little food for thought to those that might be burdened with paying for Bernie's give away programs.

How many times does publicly funded tuition fees (not free) have to be explained to you chuckd? Just interested to know if you will ever get your head around the concept within your lifetime?

I'll consider that as soon as you realize my post was made over four months ago.

I know enough about his plans to know they would never work even if Congress was dumb enough to try and pass them.

The Tax Foundation saying his socialist plans will raise taxes over the next decade by an estimated $13.6 Trillion makes that little cartoon spot on for those perceptive enough to understand the federal government is a massive Cost Center.

They have no Profit Center

Refresh my memory again...you are Australian, right?

You won't be subject to US taxes and any children and grandchildren will be debt free and not subject to those nasty taxes

And that, dear readers, is why up2u2 is such a Bernie fan...it won't personally cost him one penny.

Socialism at its finest.

http://taxfoundation.org/article/details-and-analysis-senator-bernie-sanders-s-tax-plan

Your failing Chuck, is that you fail to see that Bernie's inability to accomplish very much is his greatest strength. He'll never get his "free college for all". But what if he were able to limit the influence of money on politics? Surely you'd agree that's a good thing.

I don't know your finances Chuck, but I'd be willing to bet, that I pay more US income taxes than you. I don't mind paying those taxes, so long as I think it is for the betterment of the society. My opinion is Chuck, that there shouldn't be even a dime paid for Medicare, so long as there isn't Universal Healthcare for everyone else. If you're not taking care of everybody you shouldn't be taking care of anybody. The old people are stealing from the young, and that's just not right.

What if the only thing a Sander's presidency were able to accomplish was campaign finance reform? Or a dialogue about Universal Healthcare? Or the exposition of the billions upon billions of dollars in corporate welfare. That would be something wouldn't it?

According to Bernie, he has conned some 8,000,000 people into donating $27 each to his campaign for a grand sum of $216,000,000. Maybe chicken feed to you but a rather sizable sum for most others.

I'm guessing he will get the big money out if he is elected and before he seeks reelection?

I'm quite certain you are paying more taxes than I am, but then I've been fully retired since 2008. Before that I worked from 1955 to 2008 paying FIT, FICA and all those other little bits and pieces.

Medicare? Do whatever you want to do with it. It doesn't cover anybody overseas so it does me no good and never has.

I get nothing from the US government that I don't pay cash for. Notary fee is $50 and a new passport this year will set me back $110. I draw Social Security which was paid for by my salary deductions over the life of my working career.

My son and daughter have families, having blessed me with a total of five grandchildren. Of these five grandchildren, two of them have PhD's from Florida State, one will be a Senior at Baylor and one is in his third year in Georgia. The other is still in High School. No slackers there...or Bernie supporters.

So, thank you for your contributions to our welfare through your taxes. You have fed the bureaucracy well. It just keeps getting bigger with each passing administration.

[chuckd]

up2u2, damn, you beat me to it...lol. The lies about being unable to fund Bernie's New Deal programs have been throughly debunked. Then again, the right wingnuts can't/won't accept or recognize the truth. Their minds are stuck back in the scumbag McCarthy era and cold war propaganda. Like Peter Pan, never to grow, mentally.

Then perhaps you can debunk what the Tax Foundation claims, based on Bernie's published tax plan.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Senator Sanders (I-VT) would enact a number of policies that would raise payroll taxes and individual income taxes, especially on high-income households.

Senator Sanders’s plan would raise tax revenue by $13.6 trillion over the next decade on a static basis. However, the plan would end up collecting $9.8 trillion over the next decade when accounting for decreased economic output in the long run.

A majority of the revenue raised by the Sanders plan would come from a new 6.2 percent employer-side payroll tax, a new 2.2 percent broad-based income tax, and the elimination of tax expenditures relating to healthcare.

According to the Tax Foundation’s Taxes and Growth Model, the plan would significantly increase marginal tax rates and the cost of capital, which would lead to 9.5 percent lower GDP over the long term.

On a static basis, the plan would lead to 10.56 percent lower after-tax income for all taxpayers and 17.91 percent lower after-tax income for the top 1 percent. When accounting for reduced GDP, after-tax incomes of all taxpayers would fall by at least 12.84 percent.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

I await your detailed rebuttal.

http://taxfoundation.org/article/details-and-analysis-senator-bernie-sanders-s-tax-plan

[up2u2]

up2u2, damn, you beat me to it...lol. The lies about being unable to fund Bernie's New Deal programs have been throughly debunked. Then again, the right wingnuts can't/won't accept or recognize the truth. Their minds are stuck back in the scumbag McCarthy era and cold war propaganda. Like Peter Pan, never to grow, mentally.

Sorry Sarge but chuckd just keeps repeating the same old tired Right Wing clap trap.

1. Socialist boogie man

2. Simplistic 'it wont work' bleeting

3. Enter some Right Wing misinformation and 'econobabble' from a trumped up bogus Right Wing 'Foundation' / 'Institute'

4. Attempt to personally discredit and demonise anyone who intelligently refutes his drivel

5. Top it off, where he came in with, the Socialist boogie man tripe

Very tiresome. No wonder America is in such a mess.

[up2u2]

up2u2, damn, you beat me to it...lol. The lies about being unable to fund Bernie's New Deal programs have been throughly debunked. Then again, the right wingnuts can't/won't accept or recognize the truth. Their minds are stuck back in the scumbag McCarthy era and cold war propaganda. Like Peter Pan, never to grow, mentally.

Then perhaps you can debunk what the Tax Foundation claims, based on Bernie's published tax plan.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Senator Sanders (I-VT) would enact a number of policies that would raise payroll taxes and individual income taxes, especially on high-income households.

Senator Sanders’s plan would raise tax revenue by $13.6 trillion over the next decade on a static basis. However, the plan would end up collecting $9.8 trillion over the next decade when accounting for decreased economic output in the long run.

A majority of the revenue raised by the Sanders plan would come from a new 6.2 percent employer-side payroll tax, a new 2.2 percent broad-based income tax, and the elimination of tax expenditures relating to healthcare.

According to the Tax Foundation’s Taxes and Growth Model, the plan would significantly increase marginal tax rates and the cost of capital, which would lead to 9.5 percent lower GDP over the long term.

On a static basis, the plan would lead to 10.56 percent lower after-tax income for all taxpayers and 17.91 percent lower after-tax income for the top 1 percent. When accounting for reduced GDP, after-tax incomes of all taxpayers would fall by at least 12.84 percent.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

I await your detailed rebuttal.

http://taxfoundation.org/article/details-and-analysis-senator-bernie-sanders-s-tax-plan

Probably right chuckd best stick with the most expensive and worst patient outcome health system of any developed Nation. lol

This 'analysis' was debunked because it didn't take into account the savings to the taxpayer. Basically, a person now pays $5000 per year for health insurance, and a piss poor one at that, under a single payer system the cost is $600 per year. It also failed to account for collective bargaining forcing down health care costs. Once the health care costs paid by taxpayers to the private health care providers and Insurance companies is deducted from the taxpayers contribution to a one payer government managed system it becomes a saving of 8 trillion dollars in the long term.

What no Socialist boogie man chuckd? Your slipping mate

[sgtsabai]

It was established long ago that the people most affected by the tax increase would be upper incomes. Yes, even lower incomes will see an increase but the savings will amount to more money. This tax plan has a long row to hoe and the corporate blue dawg Democrats probably won't support it. I would suggest the right wingnuts do some real research for a change, instead of asking me to do it for them. Just a quick glance at the tax foundation, ahem, can we say koch (John Birch Society) traitor brothers, why yes we can.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_Foundation

http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf/2014/02/tax_foundation_propaganda_revealed_again_moran.html

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Tax_Foundation

[jmd8800]

It was established long ago that the people most affected by the tax increase would be upper incomes. Yes, even lower incomes will see an increase but the savings will amount to more money. This tax plan has a long row to hoe and the corporate blue dawg Democrats probably won't support it. I would suggest the right wingnuts do some real research for a change, instead of asking me to do it for them. Just a quick glance at the tax foundation, ahem, can we say koch (John Birch Society) traitor brothers, why yes we can. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_Foundation http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf/2014/02/tax_foundation_propaganda_revealed_again_moran.html http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Tax_Foundation

As researchers have pointed out the right wing political mindset is more in tune with following what is told to them than to think independently.

[Freakin Musashi]

America has never really been a democratic nation..that is ever was is a misconception.

America is a republic, not a democracy.

In a republic, people chose representatives who actually do the voting.

Those representatives are not required to vote the way the people who chose them would have voted and often do not.

This is why a candidate can win the popular vote and still not win the office in America

That old trope? Please!

A republic is simply a government with a constitution.

Both the USSR and China's current governments republics.

The system that the USA uses is an indirect democracy. We elect representatives that vote for us on legislative matters, and in the case of presidential elections, our vote for a candidate is transmitted to party delegates. It's not good, it's not bad, it's just the way it is.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Freakin Musashi

[CWMcMurray]

Bernie vs Trump debate

Hillary backed out of promised debate With Bernie... So Trump said he'll debate Bernie

Bernie says game on!!!

Can't wait to see this!!!

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/05/27/us/politics/donald-trump-bernie-sanders-debate.html?_r=0&referer=https://www.google.co.th/

Edited May 26, 2016 by CWMcMurray

[Jingthing]

Bernie vs Trump debate

Hillary backed out of promised debate With Bernie... So Trump said he'll debate Bernie

Bernie says game on!!!

Can't wait to see this!!!

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/05/27/us/politics/donald-trump-bernie-sanders-debate.html?_r=0&referer=https://www.google.co.th/

I might be about time to rename Bernie Sanders to Ralph Nader Sanders.

I get why the vile monster wants to do it as it advances his attack on Hillary Clinton.

What Sanders accomplishes with it is to help the vile monster's chances of being president.

Meshuga!

Edited May 26, 2016 by Jingthing