Uninsured foreigners burdens Thai public hospitals

[chiang mai]

I'm pretty certain that even if compulsory health insurance were introduced for all foreign visitors, and that's no small undertaking in itself, the picture concerning foreigners running up hospital bills and not paying, wont change that much. There will always be a percentage of the visiting population that uses fraudulent certificates/policies and or doesn't renew their policy once in country. Perhaps the costs we're seeing currently are as good as they'll ever get, part of the cost of doing business and an overhead that simply has to be absorbed. As Sheryl has pointed out, the logistics associated with all of this are horrendous.

Another viewpoint is, who are the worst offenders, which nationalities? My guess is that Burmese, Cambodians and Laotians represent the largest percentage of foreign nationalities resident in Thailand, after that it's likely to be the Chinese. Those are people that will be working in Thailand earning small amounts of money, trying to impose health insurance on them is almost impossible. This forum is more concerned about the impact of this on westerners I would guess and they I would imagine are way down the list of financial culprits and also as a percentage of total foreigners in country. So, which nut are they trying to crack and what is its shape and size.

[sunnyjim5]

I'm pretty certain that even if compulsory health insurance were introduced for all foreign visitors, and that's no small undertaking in itself, the picture concerning foreigners running up hospital bills and not paying, wont change that much. There will always be a percentage of the visiting population that uses fraudulent certificates/policies and or doesn't renew their policy once in country. Perhaps the costs we're seeing currently are as good as they'll ever get, part of the cost of doing business and an overhead that simply has to be absorbed. As Sheryl has pointed out, the logistics associated with all of this are horrendous.

Another viewpoint is, who are the worst offenders, which nationalities? My guess is that Burmese, Cambodians and Laotians represent the largest percentage of foreign nationalities resident in Thailand, after that it's likely to be the Chinese. Those are people that will be working in Thailand earning small amounts of money, trying to impose health insurance on them is almost impossible. This forum is more concerned about the impact of this on westerners I would guess and they I would imagine are way down the list of financial culprits and also as a percentage of total foreigners in country. So, which nut are they trying to crack and what is its shape and size.

Burmese, Cambodians and Laotians who are working legally in Thailand have health care covered/provided.

[Bluespunk]

Make it mandatory for tourist and long stay foreigners to have insurance. No insurance no visa. Sounds reasonable to me. Its just bad of all those foreigners skipping on their hospital bills.

Maybe the government can set up an insurance for foreigners, if not too bad. I am insured.. sure its expensive but at least I have a peace of mind.

In previous topics all the older foreigners are moaning because the premium is so high, that bad for them (and me in future) but not a reason to let the Thai taxpayer pay the bill for their hospital costs. No insurance.. no visa.

Most taxes come from indirect taxation.

We all pay that.

So it is everyone who lives here tax money that is being used to pay for the hospitals.

Thai and non Thai alike.

[Bluespunk]

"https://www.phuketga...9225#ad-image-0

From 3 years ago mind, so might have stopped this now..."

A clickbait article designed to appeal to whining "farang".

If they think they can get care at the one of the private hospitals on Phuket for the same or lower cost they should know what to do.

If they want 30 Bht healthcare they will be right out of luck ! I fully support the Government hospitals charging foreigners a cost which will cover their expenses+. The 30 Bht scheme is intended to provide universal health cover to people earning 300 Bht a day.

If the "farang" does not like the health care options/costs in Thailand they had best return home where many will be forced to pay a great deal more.

No. An article exposing the hypocrisy of dual pricing.

Nice to see a new version of the sad, old, tired "if you don't like it go home", still tired and old but at least an attempt made to disguise this bit of trite.

Edited March 7, 2016 by Bluespunk

[chiang mai]

I'm pretty certain that even if compulsory health insurance were introduced for all foreign visitors, and that's no small undertaking in itself, the picture concerning foreigners running up hospital bills and not paying, wont change that much. There will always be a percentage of the visiting population that uses fraudulent certificates/policies and or doesn't renew their policy once in country. Perhaps the costs we're seeing currently are as good as they'll ever get, part of the cost of doing business and an overhead that simply has to be absorbed. As Sheryl has pointed out, the logistics associated with all of this are horrendous.

Another viewpoint is, who are the worst offenders, which nationalities? My guess is that Burmese, Cambodians and Laotians represent the largest percentage of foreign nationalities resident in Thailand, after that it's likely to be the Chinese. Those are people that will be working in Thailand earning small amounts of money, trying to impose health insurance on them is almost impossible. This forum is more concerned about the impact of this on westerners I would guess and they I would imagine are way down the list of financial culprits and also as a percentage of total foreigners in country. So, which nut are they trying to crack and what is its shape and size.

Burmese, Cambodians and Laotians who are working legally in Thailand have health care covered/provided.

In theory yes, in practice I'm willing to bet most don't.

[Deez]

Does this include the 500% they overcharge the foreigners that do pay?

[jpinx]

How many times has this old chestnut been roasted? Getting medical insurance is perfectly possible (ask Sheryl) even for 90-year-olds - see threads I referenced above.

www.CignaGlobal.com

Charging 30/40/50 baht per head at the airport is ridiculous since some people only stay a week and others 3 months or a lot more. Asking already hard-pressed immigration offices to check incomers medical insurance is equally ridiculous. Check against what database, format, standards? It is actually CHEAPER for Thailand to pay the bill in the cases where the farang can't/won't pay,,,,,

I have just got an online quote from Cigna.

Their cheapest rate plan, Silver, comes to £341.01 per month or a little over 17,000 thb per month or 204.606 thb per year using 50thb/£1 as an exchange rate.

The Gold plan is £426,27 or 21,310 thb per month and 255,760 thb per year.

The Platinum plan is £532.83 or 26,640 thb pcm and 319,700 thb per year.

Dunno what happened to you -- I'm 69 and my quote was...

1 monthly payment of £ 95.48 then 11 monthly payments of £ 95.51 inc tax

[Guitar God]

I can't believe that health insurance in Scandinavian countries doesn't cover emergency medical coverage in Thailand. I have health insurance in the Netherlands that covers me worldwide. Not an extra, not travel insurance, standard coverage.

[stickylies]

Easy - every inbound visitor must prove that he/she has valid medical insurance before being allowed entry.

Lol. Next every inbound visitor must undergo IQ test and score >115... Gimme a break. U think all Indians have insurance, the Chinese, the middle eastern... Blah blah blah.

[sunnyjim5]

Does this include the 500% they overcharge the foreigners that do pay?

Which 500% overcharge ?

Do you have evidence of what you claim?

Are you aware of what the base costs are? For example what does it cost the State to repair a Thai persons broken leg, in a Government hospital, using internal fixation?

[RichardinHuaHin]

This loss they are talking about is a drop in the bucket. I worked in healthcare in California and most organizations lose over two million USD a year from uninsured patients that can never pay.

[kannot]

Does this include the Burmese, Laos, Cambodians etc

Poor Thailand, what it needs is "yet another" course of its own over prescribed antibiotics to sort this out

[hansnl]

It is quite simple.

For all those expats living in Thailand and not able to get any kind of insurance, make a state insurance only valid in state hospitals.

Make having an insurance compulsory and coupled to the extension of stay.

Premiums for the state insurance 2000-2500 baht per month.

Problems for the state hospitals solved.

[chiang mai]

How many times has this old chestnut been roasted? Getting medical insurance is perfectly possible (ask Sheryl) even for 90-year-olds - see threads I referenced above.

www.CignaGlobal.com

Charging 30/40/50 baht per head at the airport is ridiculous since some people only stay a week and others 3 months or a lot more. Asking already hard-pressed immigration offices to check incomers medical insurance is equally ridiculous. Check against what database, format, standards? It is actually CHEAPER for Thailand to pay the bill in the cases where the farang can't/won't pay,,,,,

I have just got an online quote from Cigna.

Their cheapest rate plan, Silver, comes to £341.01 per month or a little over 17,000 thb per month or 204.606 thb per year using 50thb/£1 as an exchange rate.

The Gold plan is £426,27 or 21,310 thb per month and 255,760 thb per year.

The Platinum plan is £532.83 or 26,640 thb pcm and 319,700 thb per year.

Dunno what happened to you -- I'm 69 and my quote was...

1 monthly payment of £ 95.48 then 11 monthly payments of £ 95.51 inc tax

And it covers all pre-existing conditions of course!

[chrissables]

Government hospitals charge a fraction of the extortionate private hospitals, I use them, and never fail to pay the final bill.

Why doesn't the Government, or a company within Thailand, introduce an insurance for people restricted to using public hospitals only ?

I am sure the premiums would be a lot more affordable for people here.

With regards to making it compulsory for arrivals to have insurance, this would be impossible to police. With modern technology, it is not rocket science to forge a bill head,from an overseas insurance company, quoting a blag policy number, indicating that the person is insured. Proving that every document people show on arriving is genuine would be impossible.

I totally agree. Also due to the rip off prices charged by hospitals here, insurance policies become too expensive.

Another point, do the government hospitals actually lose money, or not make as much as they want?

If the government came up with a REALISTICALLY priced insurance policy giving basic cover in, they would not be loosing money.

Or even better they could tax the international hospitals that charge extortionate prices for even basic procedures and use that tax money to offset government so called loses.

[kjhbigv]

These numbers seem extremely small for the billions of BHT 99.99% of regular tourists bring in!

[jpinx]

How many times has this old chestnut been roasted? Getting medical insurance is perfectly possible (ask Sheryl) even for 90-year-olds - see threads I referenced above.

www.CignaGlobal.com

Charging 30/40/50 baht per head at the airport is ridiculous since some people only stay a week and others 3 months or a lot more. Asking already hard-pressed immigration offices to check incomers medical insurance is equally ridiculous. Check against what database, format, standards? It is actually CHEAPER for Thailand to pay the bill in the cases where the farang can't/won't pay,,,,,

I have just got an online quote from Cigna.

Their cheapest rate plan, Silver, comes to £341.01 per month or a little over 17,000 thb per month or 204.606 thb per year using 50thb/£1 as an exchange rate.

The Gold plan is £426,27 or 21,310 thb per month and 255,760 thb per year.

The Platinum plan is £532.83 or 26,640 thb pcm and 319,700 thb per year.

Dunno what happened to you -- I'm 69 and my quote was...

1 monthly payment of £ 95.48 then 11 monthly payments of £ 95.51 inc tax

And it covers all pre-existing conditions of course!

Yes -- basically it covers anything pre-existing that has not required attention within the 5 years prior to the policy start date. You need to get yourself a quote -- don't use my figures haha!!

[alfieconn]

Why do people continually call a lump sum put away for Hospital care as "Self Insure" perhaps they need to look up the definition of Insurance.

Edited March 7, 2016 by alfieconn

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

What moron goes to Thailand without travel insurance?

I used to pay about US$60 for a single trip

I think they should be locked up after their treatment till the family or someone else pays.

Thats what would happen if they didnt pay their hotel bill, whats the difference?

UK travel insurance policies are limited to 30 day episodes of foreign travel. It isn't always a lack of forethought that's the problem, its the lack of an available product.

[jpinx]

What moron goes to Thailand without travel insurance?

I used to pay about US$60 for a single trip

I think they should be locked up after their treatment till the family or someone else pays.

Thats what would happen if they didnt pay their hotel bill, whats the difference?

UK travel insurance policies are limited to 30 day episodes of foreign travel. It isn't always a lack of forethought that's the problem, its the lack of an available product.

The insurance is available - if you look back a few posts......

I really wish people would at least scan the thread for the answers before they post,,,,,,,,

[thaiduncankk]

How many times has this old chestnut been roasted? Getting medical insurance is perfectly possible (ask Sheryl) even for 90-year-olds - see threads I referenced above.

www.CignaGlobal.com

Charging 30/40/50 baht per head at the airport is ridiculous since some people only stay a week and others 3 months or a lot more. Asking already hard-pressed immigration offices to check incomers medical insurance is equally ridiculous. Check against what database, format, standards? It is actually CHEAPER for Thailand to pay the bill in the cases where the farang can't/won't pay,,,,,

I have just got an online quote from Cigna.

Their cheapest rate plan, Silver, comes to £341.01 per month or a little over 17,000 thb per month or 204.606 thb per year using 50thb/£1 as an exchange rate.

The Gold plan is £426,27 or 21,310 thb per month and 255,760 thb per year.

The Platinum plan is £532.83 or 26,640 thb pcm and 319,700 thb per year.

Dunno what happened to you -- I'm 69 and my quote was...

1 monthly payment of £ 95.48 then 11 monthly payments of £ 95.51 inc tax

I was quoted triple that, and I am 55.

Also, within 5 minutes of receiving the quote, a knob was on the phone from the UK trying to sell me the policy.

I told him I was not interested and hung up on him.

[captspectre]

Most of these hospitals are grossly expensive as all of them love to overcharge.

grossly expensive as to what? your own country? try getting sick in the U.S. you will have a heart attack when you see the bill! sounds like they are trying to correct the problem about the free loaders! make everyone have basic insurance in order to enter the country! if the Thai's weren't so greedy for the tourist money they coukld have solved this problem long ago. no insurance, no visa! thur their asses around at the airport!

[chiang mai]

I have just got an online quote from Cigna.

Their cheapest rate plan, Silver, comes to £341.01 per month or a little over 17,000 thb per month or 204.606 thb per year using 50thb/£1 as an exchange rate.

The Gold plan is £426,27 or 21,310 thb per month and 255,760 thb per year.

The Platinum plan is £532.83 or 26,640 thb pcm and 319,700 thb per year.

Dunno what happened to you -- I'm 69 and my quote was...

1 monthly payment of £ 95.48 then 11 monthly payments of £ 95.51 inc tax

And it covers all pre-existing conditions of course!

Yes -- basically it covers anything pre-existing that has not required attention within the 5 years prior to the policy start date. You need to get yourself a quote -- don't use my figures haha!!

I did, just prior to my 65th and the cheapest came back at 150 Pounds per month, a 2k Pounds deductible, a 300k Baht co-pay and no pre-existing conditions covered. Other company quotes were similar.

Edited March 7, 2016 by chiang mai

[CLW]

In case of tourists, everyone should be required to have a health insurance when entering Thailand. What's difficult about this?

They require the same for Thais applying for schengen visa.

If someone has unpaid bills after the treatment just lock them in here until they pay.

Also same situation in Europe.

[alfieconn]

How many times has this old chestnut been roasted? Getting medical insurance is perfectly possible (ask Sheryl) even for 90-year-olds - see threads I referenced above.

www.CignaGlobal.com

Charging 30/40/50 baht per head at the airport is ridiculous since some people only stay a week and others 3 months or a lot more. Asking already hard-pressed immigration offices to check incomers medical insurance is equally ridiculous. Check against what database, format, standards? It is actually CHEAPER for Thailand to pay the bill in the cases where the farang can't/won't pay,,,,,

I have just got an online quote from Cigna.

Their cheapest rate plan, Silver, comes to £341.01 per month or a little over 17,000 thb per month or 204.606 thb per year using 50thb/£1 as an exchange rate.

The Gold plan is £426,27 or 21,310 thb per month and 255,760 thb per year.

The Platinum plan is £532.83 or 26,640 thb pcm and 319,700 thb per year.

Dunno what happened to you -- I'm 69 and my quote was...

1 monthly payment of £ 95.48 then 11 monthly payments of £ 95.51 inc tax

I was quoted triple that, and I am 55.

Also, within 5 minutes of receiving the quote, a knob was on the phone from the UK trying to sell me the policy.

I told him I was not interested and hung up on him.

I think they see you coming, obviously not literally

[DaveinAsia]

So you want to blame the hospitals because foreigners rip them off. It is not the hospital’s fault if a foreigner doesn’t have any money or refuses to pay his bill. This could easily lead to restrictions on the care of foreigner, which no one wants.

555! So it's only the foreigners ripping off the hospitals is it? The scammers are complaining about being scammed, that's hilarious. As someone else said earlier it's a scam within a scam to suck more money out of foreigners or to hike the prices up for foreigners because they just don't scam us enough already

[dcnx]

Welcome to the hospital business. It happens all over the world.

[mango66]

This is the lead-up to a new campaign for a levy on all non-citizens ( one that will raise billions of baht to cover losses in the millions). So transparently obvious it's embarrassing. It didn't get legs last time but watch this space.

Correct what you say !

for a few million of expenses,

they will charge a billion from tourists,

to cover their Thai patient loss and to fill up the envelopes ;

Most would pay, if the bill would be same as for an Thai !!

But every knows,

farong are reach,

farong have money,

farong should pay pay pay !!

[upena]

Phuket hospitals complain about this every year. Why not just ask MOTS for the money?

[Foxxster]

It is a legal requirement for tourists to have their passports on them. Yes I know this is not often enforced but it is still currently the law. Either on admission or at some point of the hospital stay or even on discharge , the foreign patient should be required to show their passport.

If they do not pay their bill then arrangements (ideally reciprocal) should be put in place via the embassies to arrange for any outstanding amounts to be repaid by either withholding social security if they are not working or via the tax system. The amount taken each week need not be onerous if they are really in financial distress, maybe $10 a week for example. Word would get out that you cannot get away without paying and hopefully more people would voluntarily get insurance.

Edited March 7, 2016 by Foxxster