THE England thread

[smokie36]

We have an Engerland thug on here Gawd help us...where's Alfredo Garnett when you need 'im?

[rijit]

^^ as opposed to a Scottish mug. !!!

Lol :D

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[smokie36]

^^ as opposed to a Scottish mug. !!!

Lol :D

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Careful rij...you'll be needing a new manager soon.

[SantiSuk]

Overnight response from my German living, football loving, currently Welsh holidaying sister:

"We actually watched the Wales game which was masterly. Ramsey, again a star and Gareth Bale being....welll, Gareth Bale.

The only disappointment was the public in the pub! We're in Wales dammit and I expected a party atmosphere! NAh.......only interested in rugby!"

You can just imagine it can't you - the nation's greatest sporting achievement this century, if not a century and, just as the final whistle blows on the Russia game, Garaint turns to Evan, who is looking looking morosely into his pint of Brains Bitter, and says..

.."bluddy English beat the Ozzies on Saturday, Evan - gutted I am isn't it"

[nation of suicide monkeys (apparently) but great place and very warm people!]

[SantiSuk]

Maybe maybe not. Have to be lined up with all the other small nations who put up heroic (=boring) defences most of their last nights! TV pundits celebrating that fact but in reality it has been a direst of dire tourneys so far. Spain, Italy and one performance from Belgium excepted

And of course Wales tonight.

Dunno - haven't seen it yet. Looking forward to that massively and checking CTH hourly for the replay.

Deep deep respect to Wales - absolutely the quintissential heroic performance for any small, rarely seen nation, to top a group at the Euros. In the cool light of day this is a tournament-changing highlight of Euros 16 and I hope they carry on to do complete Roy of the Rovers on it.

I'm claiming it as a British victory - just like we little Englanders always do when someone like Jackie Stewart or Andy Murray did/do something special

[SantiSuk]

<deleted>.

No further questions. I rest my case your honour.

[mommysboy]

I said after the Dutch friendly that teams would use that as a blueprint. The three teams came and parked the bus. England not clinical enough to overcome that problem. I really think all those changes didrupted England's rythm. That was bad mangement imo. It'll cost England who now have a disruptive move south to play a fancied team and then a tough quarter final even if they overcome that. The only positive is that the tables are turned, we will likely be able to play our natural counter attacking style which should suit the likes of Vardy.

And we found the ideal role for Henderson: next to Sterling on the plane home today.

[stephenterry]

Hodgson blew it, once again. He clearly has great faith in under-performing players, which is his nemesis. To begin with the substitutions:- Wilshere did nothing to warrant his place - 'clever' little flicks that didn't work - should have been replaced at half-time. But by who? Although I'm not a great fan, Milner would have been a smarter choice than Rooney who looked jaded once on.

Alli for Lallana (or Henderson), acceptable. Kane for Sturridge - a huge mistake by Hodgson. Apart from being out-of-sorts, Kane needs space to be effective - this match never offered that. Far better choice had to be Rashford who is an instinct man-in-the-box striker - a poacher.

Team selection - shows Hodgson doesn't really know how to get the best out of his squad. Excuse - resting up players. So Rooney, Alli and Kane subs fit into that category? But Clyne had a great match - he was a constant thorn to Slovakia, and equal to Walker. Bertrand not as good as Rose going forward - Rose's crosses were missed - and subject to giving away clumsy fouls, but adequate cover.

Back to Henderson - he got himself into good positions but his final ball delivery was poor. Hart had little to do, and the central defenders not really troubled, albeit vulnerable when attacked in numbers - and Smalling nearly gave away an easy goal.

As to tactics - Hodgson got that wrong as well. With Slovakia parking the bus it was essential England attacked the flanks and sent crosses into the box, not try and knife themselves through the mass defence. Apart from some woeful corners, crosses were few and far between.

If Wales could score 3 against Russia, and beat Slovakia, England's goal tally has fallen far short of what's needed to win this tournament. I can see us not losing, but going out on penalties next match (or the one after).

[SantiSuk]

Good summary and agree with most things except that we go out to pens. Our defence is not that great and any of the top 8 in the competition could pick us off while we try to pursue our posession football. Inevitable full-time exit in the quarters and 40% likely next round I'd say.

Top teams go round the side as you said. They also work the diagonals and have periods of dropping back to invite the opposition in to open up sucker-punch counter opportunities. We don't seem to have the skills (except Alli) for the short-game angles and we are not confident enough in our defence to let up possession with a view to opening up counter opportunities. Like someone said, maybe having a better opponent might play to our strengths. The failure to play wide in the second half (first half saw quite a bit of ball coming in from the right, but too randomly and un-cordinated with the central guys) was indeed our downfall.

Seems like Roy has no clue about who works well together at the front - a lot will rest on Walker and Rose coming back in fresh, whether Alli can recapture some touch and whether Dier is fully fit enough after 3 tough games in 8 days

[mommysboy]

Hodgson blew it, once again. He clearly has great faith in under-performing players, which is his nemesis. To begin with the substitutions:- Wilshere did nothing to warrant his place - 'clever' little flicks that didn't work - should have been replaced at half-time. But by who? Although I'm not a great fan, Milner would have been a smarter choice than Rooney who looked jaded once on.

Alli for Lallana (or Henderson), acceptable. Kane for Sturridge - a huge mistake by Hodgson. Apart from being out-of-sorts, Kane needs space to be effective - this match never offered that. Far better choice had to be Rashford who is an instinct man-in-the-box striker - a poacher.

Team selection - shows Hodgson doesn't really know how to get the best out of his squad. Excuse - resting up players. So Rooney, Alli and Kane subs fit into that category? But Clyne had a great match - he was a constant thorn to Slovakia, and equal to Walker. Bertrand not as good as Rose going forward - Rose's crosses were missed - and subject to giving away clumsy fouls, but adequate cover.

Back to Henderson - he got himself into good positions but his final ball delivery was poor. Hart had little to do, and the central defenders not really troubled, albeit vulnerable when attacked in numbers - and Smalling nearly gave away an easy goal.

As to tactics - Hodgson got that wrong as well. With Slovakia parking the bus it was essential England attacked the flanks and sent crosses into the box, not try and knife themselves through the mass defence. Apart from some woeful corners, crosses were few and far between.

If Wales could score 3 against Russia, and beat Slovakia, England's goal tally has fallen far short of what's needed to win this tournament. I can see us not losing, but going out on penalties next match (or the one after).

England continually squander that all important first clear chance. Not scoring early on gives the opposing team a cause to fight for. Last night a contributing factor was the team changes. When a team senses the opposition can't score they become more and more confident.

Without a doubt the answer was in the flanks. But even then if the delivery is poor or you can't tuck them away!....

[nev]

Shock horror England fail to deliver once again, now we have a hard route if we want to make the final, I hear if we win the next game and France do too we meet in the quarter final, now that is a hard task.

[Jip99]

A tactical draw so we can dispose of Portugal in the next match and the France on 3rd July.

[Chicog]

I think we're just lulling everyone into a false sense of security.

[smokie36]

I think we're just lulling everyone into a false sense of security.

You're going to get the winker treatment all over again!

[mrbojangles]

Top teams go round the side as you said. They also work the diagonals and have periods of dropping back to invite the opposition in to open up sucker-punch counter opportunities. We don't seem to have the skills (except Alli) for the short-game angles and we are not confident enough in our defence to let up possession with a view to opening up counter opportunities.

Wish we had an English version of David Silva or the likes. Last night it was screaming out for someone with the ability to split a defence.

[Mooner]

Dominant performance but we are struggling to break teams down and score. Roy has some big choices to make!

Wilshere and Henderson arent likely to get a start after last night. Sturridge was poor and Vardy was ok, should of scored first half but there was no space in the second half as they played so deep.

I see the defence and midfield going back to the team in the first two games and i think Lallana will keep his place. Think the other two positions are up for grabs.

[Chicog]

I think I've sussed it.

The coaches said to Woy "We have a choice of a flat four or five man midfield or a diamond formation" and he obviously said "Gweat idea, let's do all of them!".

[mommysboy]

I think we're just lulling everyone into a false sense of security.

pity our forwards don't have so much spin!

[mommysboy]

Top teams go round the side as you said. They also work the diagonals and have periods of dropping back to invite the opposition in to open up sucker-punch counter opportunities. We don't seem to have the skills (except Alli) for the short-game angles and we are not confident enough in our defence to let up possession with a view to opening up counter opportunities.

Wish we had an English version of David Silva or the likes. Last night it was screaming out for someone with the ability to split a defence.

We do, rather we did, Wilshere and Barkley, both seemed to be in here in person only.

[stephenterry]

Dominant performance but we are struggling to break teams down and score. Roy has some big choices to make!

Wilshere and Henderson arent likely to get a start after last night. Sturridge was poor and Vardy was ok, should of scored first half but there was no space in the second half as they played so deep.

I see the defence and midfield going back to the team in the first two games and i think Lallana will keep his place. Think the other two positions are up for grabs.

Yes, I agree. IMO, it's obvious that Vardy and Rashford would gel - they seem to fit. They really ought to start. Also Kane and Sturridge - but Kane is out of any decent form and Sturridge is not fully game fit. But, it's more than likely Hodgson would ignore the obvious, and start these two because he's blind to their faults. And if Sterling gets a look-in, Hodgson ought to be replaced as soon as his contract expires.

Edited June 21, 2016 by stephenterry

[Bredbury Blue]

Top teams go round the side as you said. They also work the diagonals and have periods of dropping back to invite the opposition in to open up sucker-punch counter opportunities. We don't seem to have the skills (except Alli) for the short-game angles and we are not confident enough in our defence to let up possession with a view to opening up counter opportunities.

Wish we had an English version of David Silva or the likes. Last night it was screaming out for someone with the ability to split a defence.

That would be Wayne 'Scholesey' Rooney, apparently. ;-)

[smokie36]

Top teams go round the side as you said. They also work the diagonals and have periods of dropping back to invite the opposition in to open up sucker-punch counter opportunities. We don't seem to have the skills (except Alli) for the short-game angles and we are not confident enough in our defence to let up possession with a view to opening up counter opportunities.

Wish we had an English version of David Silva or the likes. Last night it was screaming out for someone with the ability to split a defence.

That would be Wayne 'Scholesey' Rooney, apparently. ;-)

Where's all those bloody kids you keep going on about then BB?

[rijit]

Still make hodgsons decision to make changes right.

Thought that Hendersons lack of game time.showed had the right ish ideas but delivery was borderline shocking. Surprisingly Wiltshires first touch let him down and was caught in possession both happened far to often suppose the same asHenderson applies ,, game time.But better rid now than later. Can see where Hodgson was coming from putting vardy down the centre but sterling out wide ,,, wasted. still not all doom and gloom,, the defence has had 3 games together always Useful. Can't wait for someone to actually come at us we've got frightening ability/pace on the break which barring the bacs havnt had the chance to use yet. To me England look like a team that's busting at the bit to give someone a real spanking.. France would do.

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Edited June 21, 2016 by rijit

[StevieH]

Wish we had an English version of David Silva or the likes. Last night it was screaming out for someone with the ability to split a defence.

We do, rather we did, Wilshere and Barkley, both seemed to be in here in person only.

wilshere is about as match-fit as i am. what did he play for arsenal this season, about 3 matches? he was terribly off the pace.

england played well first half, pulled slovakia all over the shop, sturridge looked really good and clyne was outstanding. vardy was probably the wrong striker to start for this game, he thrives on counter-attacks and isn't really a penalty box striker, he's just not used to playing against deep, packed defences. so should probably have started kane.

but then after half-time it's revert to type, no clue, no plan, no incisive throughballs, no one-twos around the edge of the box to break down a packed defence, no ideas at all. england's only tactic seemed to be to tee up eric dier for a long range shot.

this squad of players is better and more talented than it's showing at the moment. but that's hodgeball.

Edited June 21, 2016 by StevieH

[donnybay]

looks more likely we will face Hungary next, so not too bad

[mommysboy]

Dominant performance but we are struggling to break teams down and score. Roy has some big choices to make!

Wilshere and Henderson arent likely to get a start after last night. Sturridge was poor and Vardy was ok, should of scored first half but there was no space in the second half as they played so deep.

I see the defence and midfield going back to the team in the first two games and i think Lallana will keep his place. Think the other two positions are up for grabs.

Yes, I agree. IMO, it's obvious that Vardy and Rashford would gel - they seem to fit. They really ought to start. Also Kane and Sturridge - but Kane is out of any decent form and Sturridge is not fully game fit. But, it's more than likely Hodgson would ignore the obvious, and start these two because he's blind to their faults. And if Sterling gets a look-in, Hodgson ought to be replaced as soon as his contract expires.

Why is it obvious that Vardy and Rashford would gel?

It's just grabbing at straws because it's the only combo that hasn't been tried.

England's problem is a bit more basic: lack of guile, mettle, no plan B.

[rijit]

Not so sure bout the 'gelling ' bit but would have liked to have seen rashford go at that defence he's got wonderful close control and ain't feared at going past peopleand can do it in tight situ's,, looked a real handful against Wales And i know he didn't score but l2 me looked as effective if not more so as woys other more heralded subs

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Edited June 21, 2016 by rijit

[stephenterry]

. vardy was probably the wrong striker to start for this game, he thrives on counter-attacks and isn't really a penalty box striker, he's just not used to playing against deep, packed defences. so should probably have started kane.

Don't agree. Vardy is on form, Kane isn't. It's like comparing a cheetah with an elephant, IMO. To suggest Kane should have started is as bad as hodgsons thinking. Tell me what he's done to deserve his place in any of the matches. He's been woeful.

[stephenterry]

Why is it obvious that Vardy and Rashford would gel?

It's just grabbing at straws because it's the only combo that hasn't been tried.

England's problem is a bit more basic: lack of guile, mettle, no plan B.

They played together against Wales or weren't you watching? It's pretty clear to me that both of them setup sturridge for the winner.

[StevieH]

. vardy was probably the wrong striker to start for this game, he thrives on counter-attacks and isn't really a penalty box striker, he's just not used to playing against deep, packed defences. so should probably have started kane.

Don't agree. Vardy is on form, Kane isn't. It's like comparing a cheetah with an elephant, IMO. To suggest Kane should have started is as bad as hodgsons thinking. Tell me what he's done to deserve his place in any of the matches. He's been woeful.

well, it's explained in the paragraph you quoted soft lad. vardy has spent the season playing in a counter-attacking side and isn't used to playing against deep, packed defences. kane is, and still scored loads of goals last season, and was the best striker in the league. kane was alright against russia in the opening game, albeit with crap service, so hardly "woeful". if your definition of "on form" changes every 45 minutes you'll be chopping and changing your side all over the place.