THE England thread

[RickG16]

45 minutes ago, StevieH said:

tactically he was exposed

 

Tactically he excelled. It was one of the reasons we were able to go so far. Against Croatia it was always going to be about who could impose their style / tactics on the game better. We were doing that by playing fast football and as usual pretty much negating the midfield, meaning we weren't letting Modric / Rakitic get a hold of it. Unfortunately after missing some chances to go 2 up, we began to hang on to the lead more, sit back, and then we were playing into their hands. 

 

Nothing wrong with the tactics, it was Croatia played better than us, and we failed to take our chances. 

[mommysboy]

Well, if there are big failings then it's amazing we got as far as we did.  The England I was watching looked a half decent team, and were only undone by one of the very few other good teams in the tournament.  Of course, if we were in the other half of the draw then we probably would have gone out in the quarters.  Criticism is fine, but there is the danger of it being as scathing as the hype is unrealistic.

 

Of particular note, is the ease with which we were able to stroke the ball around at the back.

 

The most obvious problem is the lack of midfield creativity, which is the catalyst for all other problems; in essence it skewed just about every other aspect.  It just isn't accurate to say England have not improved in possession- it's the final ball and poor finishing.

 

Sweden may have been average (for a team that saw off some big guns in qualifying and won a group of death), but 2 years ago we would have lost to them.  For that matter, I suspect we would have scraped the odd goal victory against Panama.

 

Edited July 13, 2018 by mommysboy

[carmine]

17 hours ago, chippendale said:

Ah bless, the Scottish inferiority complex is swelling out of control as they make complete and utter tits of themselves.?  Talk about scoring an own goal....

 

A 3rd world football nation that can't even qualify!!!!

Edited July 13, 2018 by carmine

[carmine]

14 hours ago, AlexRich said:

 

Not all Scots. I would have been happy to see England in the final. I gave up on anyone but England many years ago for the reason you’ve just outlined. England had a good tournament with a young squad but to be perfectly honest Croatia played better for three quarters of the match. England needed to press home the advantage with another goal but that never came. As a kid growing up in Scotland we always supported the likes of Liverpool, Nottingham Forest and Manchester United in Europe, the national thing never came into it. Think of it a bit like Spurs supporters attitude if Arsenal are in the European final ... they’d probably support the other team. 

Yes and i did make that point, not all.  

 

Your final point is a fair as well because i wouldn't support Arsenal under any circumstances.  That said, i wouldn't behave like a bitter and twisted buffoon wearing the opposition shirt and celebrate like we'd won the world cup when they lost.  Thats the stuff of real,  proper losers.  At the end of the day, its probably the English that are genuinely laughing having seen a young team over performed, go well beyond expectations and are just laughing off the cheap shots.  I haven't seen or spoken to anyone that isn't in full agreement that the jocks have made total clowns of themselves.

[alfieconn]

5 hours ago, StevieH said:

 

ah ok, didn't see his interview mate. but i just saw a stat about england having 6 shots on target all tournament from open play, that's just not good enough is it? midfield clearly needs to be better and maybe the 3-4-3 ish system doesn't work then if you're relying on corners, pens and free-kicks for your goals.

 

southgate is really likeable and i hope he has enough about him to learn and change. seems to. but yeah it's been a mad world cup and an entirely enjoyable one. germany, spain, brazil, argentina and portugal all out early doors. fun, really. hope to christ croatia win it now.

He wasn't playing a 343 ish at all and in the last game kane was dropping deeper so at times we only had one up front !

 

 

[jellydog]

I've never seen a more lengthy autopsy. A few more days and we'll be back to club football. Please bring it on !!

[Blue Muton]

On 7/12/2018 at 11:37 AM, champers said:

Very good. Now go and eat your coco pops and get ready for school.

Clearly he, she or more likely a he-she is not close to being ready for school.

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, jellydog said:

I've never seen a more lengthy autopsy. A few more days and we'll be back to club football. Please bring it on !!

Supporting England is most closely associated with those fans from smaller clubs and communities.  It's interesting for us- a chance to support someone in the limelight- we're a different breed if you like.  Club football is going to seem rather mundane for me.  Some of the big clubs hamper the development of youngsters imo (Spurs appearing to be an exception).

[Bredbury Blue]

11 hours ago, StevieH said:

 

shelvey's rubbish mate. so is wilshere. neither anywhere near top class. 

 

agree about the lack of creative midfield, that's why premier league teams pay massive wages for top class talent, none of which is english. but your latter point i totally disagree, this england team this world cup has not been one that holds the ball or dominates possession at all, it's been a side based on pace and energy, which is fine in its place. it's only been better compared to previous england teams that treated the ball like a hot potato. 

 

if you are brutally honest about this england team's world cup you say well done for making the semi-finals, smashing achievement, but you did it via a really easy group and then a very favourable draw and you got beat by the first good team you played, which by dint of the draw was the semis. haven't really bossed matches apart from against the pub team panama, haven't really made a lot of chances from open play, most goals have come from dead balls, man of the match in the quarters against sweden was your goalkeeper. look at it objectively and it's been fun and a ride but they've not dominated any match like a really top side does. but then it's been that kind of a world cup i guess. nobody has really been that good.

 

and on that note, who is your player of the tournament? i can't really think of a standout individual, and i've thoroughly enjoyed this world cup.

Like you, I've thoroughly enjoyed the world cup.

 

Thought our attacking 4 let us down the other night. Sterling, and Lingard to a certain extent, were ok, but Alli didn’t look fit and Kane never got in to the game. Defence (bar Young who was dodgy and offers nothing going forward for an ex-winger) and Henderson all put a shift in. When the Croatian’s started dominating around the 60th minute mark, it was obvious we were struggling to get out and retain the ball and Southgate should have reacted – I’d have put Vardy or Rashford on for Kane who was useless and Delph or Dier on for Alli, but he took off the most effective of the front 4, doh!  Fresh legs next time Gareth (you could see the difference between fresh Rashford and the others). We have the basis of a decent squad for the European Championships with some decent talent hopefully coming through from the younger age groups (u17 world champions).

 

TOURNAMENT HITS, SO-SO AND MISSES

HITS: Pickford, Trippier, Walker, Stones, Maguire, Henderson (I criticized him but credit is due), Lingard, Sterling & Management team

SO SO: Alli (don’t think he was fit), Kane (unusually quiet)

MISSES: Young (please retire)

DIFFICULT TO RATE (not enough minutes): Rashford, Rose, Dier, Vardy, Butland, Pope, A-Arnold, Cahill, Jones, Delph, L-Cheek, Welbeck

 

Stones, Trippier and Pickford were the 3 players that caught my eye the most.

 

[smokie36]

Team for tomorrow then lads? ?

[Jip99]

3 minutes ago, RonniePickering22 said:

Team for tomorrow then lads? ?

 

 

I would like to see them take the game seriously and respect the value of 3rd place..

 

 

Bench for Sterling, same for Deli Ali - if fully fit, otherwise leave him out.

 

Bring in Rashford, and Dier and introduce Loftus-Cheeks for Lingard if he isn't performing and Vardy for Kane on the same basis. Likewise Sterling for Rashford.

 

This is a game to go out and win..............

[3 minus 2]

11 hours ago, Kadilo said:

No it’s not good enough with the talent we have so plenty to work on. 

Southgate has come out with a lot of credit and seems a really popular guy with the team too. I think he is work in progress too in. some ways. If I wanted to criticise him I think he was too loyal to Alli and Young and slow to make changes in the Croatia game in the second half when it was clear their tactical moves were causing us problems. 

But overall he has taken us a giant step forwards from where we are and I’m sure we will continue to improve under his leadership. 

Yeah.. but being abso truthful .. 'our talent' as you put it is.ONLY JUST getting bac on a par technically with other nations  and tactically,  nationally we're stepping up at last were short on both counts but there is improvement. 

 

As for man of the tourne..consistent performers are thin on the ground but maybe  Modric   or maybe mbpappe .. over hyped a touch maybe..

[jellydog]

1 hour ago, mommysboy said:

Supporting England is most closely associated with those fans from smaller clubs and communities.  It's interesting for us- a chance to support someone in the limelight- we're a different breed if you like.  Club football is going to seem rather mundane for me.  Some of the big clubs hamper the development of youngsters imo (Spurs appearing to be an exception).

Understood. I'm not from England, so obviously have different priorities. That said, I admire fans of smaller clubs in England. An entirely different experience, in some ways, from supporting clubs in the EPL.

 

I support Man City, but I would encourage you to become an active Spurs supporter on TVisa. They are generally a decent bunch except for RonniePickering.?The more the merrier.

[smokie36]

13 minutes ago, jellydog said:

Understood. I'm not from England, so obviously have different priorities. That said, I admire fans of smaller clubs in England. An entirely different experience, in some ways, from supporting clubs in the EPL.

 

I support Man City, but I would encourage you to become an active Spurs supporter on TVisa. They are generally a decent bunch except for RonniePickering.?The more the merrier.

 

He's an astute guy is mommysboy...he won't fall for any of your grubby Citeh boys ways.

 

Away and buy Mbappe!

[Kadilo]

1 hour ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

I would like to see them take the game seriously and respect the value of 3rd place..

 

 

Bench for Sterling, same for Deli Ali - if fully fit, otherwise leave him out.

 

Bring in Rashford, and Dier and introduce Loftus-Cheeks for Lingard if he isn't performing and Vardy for Kane on the same basis. Likewise Sterling for Rashford.

 

This is a game to go out and win..............

Ditto.....and bring in Arnold for Trippier who won’t be 100% 

 

I’m sure they will take it serious but with all the inevitable changes it will have the same feeling as the group game against them. 

 

 Southgate being the nice chap he is will want to give everyone an opportunity to say they played in the World Cup. 

Edited July 13, 2018 by Kadilo

[AlexRich]

7 hours ago, carmine said:

Yes and i did make that point, not all.  

 

Your final point is a fair as well because i wouldn't support Arsenal under any circumstances.  That said, i wouldn't behave like a bitter and twisted buffoon wearing the opposition shirt and celebrate like we'd won the world cup when they lost.  Thats the stuff of real,  proper losers.  At the end of the day, its probably the English that are genuinely laughing having seen a young team over performed, go well beyond expectations and are just laughing off the cheap shots.  I haven't seen or spoken to anyone that isn't in full agreement that the jocks have made total clowns of themselves.

 

I think you take it too personally ... a big nation by population should expect some Micky taking from smaller neighbours ... but when all’s said and done if there wherever a disaster in England or Scotland, it’s those very same neighbours who would be the first and most committed helpers. Your own former team captain Terry Butcher has lived happily in Scotland for decades, I’m sure he gets his leg pulled but he realises, like I do, that we are much tighter than can be discerned by a sporting event. I don’t take it seriously.

[smokie36]

9 hours ago, carmine said:

Yes and i did make that point, not all.  

 

Your final point is a fair as well because i wouldn't support Arsenal under any circumstances.  That said, i wouldn't behave like a bitter and twisted buffoon wearing the opposition shirt and celebrate like we'd won the world cup when they lost.  Thats the stuff of real,  proper losers.  At the end of the day, its probably the English that are genuinely laughing having seen a young team over performed, go well beyond expectations and are just laughing off the cheap shots.  I haven't seen or spoken to anyone that isn't in full agreement that the jocks have made total clowns of themselves.

 

Its not our fault you was in Borstal for nicking that lassies knickers off the line back in '66.

 

Now you'll never see Engleterre win the Jules Rimet old son!

 

[mommysboy]

7 hours ago, jellydog said:

Understood. I'm not from England, so obviously have different priorities. That said, I admire fans of smaller clubs in England. An entirely different experience, in some ways, from supporting clubs in the EPL.

 

I support Man City, but I would encourage you to become an active Spurs supporter on TVisa. They are generally a decent bunch except for RonniePickering.?The more the merrier.

My team, Bournemouth, isn't so small for the time being anyway. I think Liverpool are developing youngsters too.  One of the outstanding players for Bournemouth over the years has been Mark Pugh- I think he started out at Liverpool or perhaps it was Everton-  Bournemouth picked him up on a free.

[jellydog]

44 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

My team, Bournemouth, isn't so small for the time being anyway. I think Liverpool are developing youngsters too.  One of the outstanding players for Bournemouth over the years has been Mark Pugh- I think he started out at Liverpool or perhaps it was Everton-  Bournemouth picked him up on a free.

I assumed you supported a lower league club. Not so.

[balo]

Think Belgium will win again , they never been this far and 3rd place is important to fight for. Their players are rested and ready .  

 

 

[Bredbury Blue]

Minor point. But shouldn't the semifinals be held at exactly the same time or on the same day one immediately after the other; seems unfair that the first semi winner (france) has a day extra recovery time over the second semi winner (Croatia).

[mommysboy]

15 hours ago, jellydog said:

I assumed you supported a lower league club. Not so.

What I mean is it's my life long team- when I used to watch them every home match (and some away) they were what was then Div 3 and 4.  It's only in recent times that they have gone up in the world, and in a way nobody could have predicted. I remain humble about football.  I can't very well stop supporting them because they are successful?

Edited July 14, 2018 by mommysboy

[mommysboy]

10 hours ago, balo said:

Think Belgium will win again , they never been this far and 3rd place is important to fight for. Their players are rested and ready .  

 

 

Hmm.....maybe. It'll be the second time the teams have met in this tournament, and neither game has counted for much- Belgium (B) v England (B).

[alfieconn]

Delph playing in  midfeld  just shows how much we are lacking in quality in that position !

Edited July 14, 2018 by alfieconn

[Bredbury Blue]

What's  the  reason both teams are in their away kit? Did they both lose the toss.

[Mooner]

Just thinking if we came 1st in the group we would of probably went out straight away and Belgium would be in the final

[NanLaew]

8 hours ago, mommysboy said:

Hmm.....maybe. It'll be the second time the teams have met in this tournament, and neither game has counted for much- Belgium (B) v England (B).

If England had fielded their A-team in the first match against the Belgian B-team, they would still have lost.

[NanLaew]

6 minutes ago, Mooner said:

Just thinking if we came 1st in the group we would of probably went out straight away and Belgium would be in the final

Probably.

[NanLaew]

33 minutes ago, alfieconn said:

Delph playing in  midfeld  just shows how much we are lacking in quality in that position !

Why does England have 3 center backs? Loss of the midfield undid them against Croatia... or have they forgotten already?

[3 minus 2]

45 minutes ago, Bredbury Blue said:

What's  the  reason both teams are in their away kit? Did they both lose the toss.

Nah....Neither gave a toss...