NE people unhappy with life after military take-over

[billd766]

It's not difficult to figure out.

The northeast is unhappy. Once again the elected government they voted for overwhelmingly has been toppled in a military coup.

The central region is happy. The central region includes Bangkok, and the coup was staged to take power from the Thai majority, which live in the provinces, and keep it in Bangkok.

If the poll results are correct (always a big 'if' with Thai polls), the results are unsurprising.

However the North-east is only one region of Thailand yet it seems as though it is the most troublesome. There is also central, south, east and west Thailand. Together they have a larger population than the North east and apart from 3 provinces in the south cause far less problems also.

[CGW]

It is impossible to discuss or dissect the politics here now, the major influences over the past 50 years are not open to any form of "discussion"

[MorristheRunt]

iI would say the people in and around Bangkok realise they are not alowed to be unhappy, and have far more to loose than their NE countrymen, ie their freedom

[MZurf]

The one they had before the military stepped in and tore it up was adequate.

It allowed the electorate to select the government they wanted by election in a secret ballot - which is the fundamental of democrac: as opposed to having it decided by a military junta backed by a small and shadowy elite of very wealthy people.

Reasoned from a Western background where people know right and duties. A constitution only functions when people behave.

The idea of "let's have an election" sound good but only when you assume the same status as you encounter in the Western democracies. When a part of the population has no problem with a criminal fugitive running the country that's just as bad as needing a coup to stop him from doing so.

You seem to think that the situation will improve in Thailand under this junta, right?

Then please answer the following question (I'm not giving up on this):

After 19 coups/coup and attempts where nothing changed except the snouts in the trough (correct me if I'm wrong) what makes you think it will be different this time?

Well thank you very much for asking this again.

In the mean time it would seem that only foreigners 'know' what the article of the topic means. Unhappy as they are.

How about a reply? None of you junta supporters are able to answer that question and it really says it all.

[sjaak327]

I know that. I also know the same is done in other countries even in the West, the 'monitoring' part that is. Mind you, liking a page deemed ISIS-linked or deemed 'unacceptable' will get you in hot water, in the West.

My dear friend phoenixdoglover just wrote in another topic

"While repressive governments may not "like" it, history is filled with examples of human rights improvements secured through aggressive communication, sanctions, even violent means."

Now such in a facebook page will certainly make some law enforcement agencies pay more attention to you, even when your government is not 'repressive'.

I am dying to hear of just one example where someone has been jailed for liking a facebook post in the West.

Don't even try to suggest that what is happening in Thailand is even remotely comparable to what is happening in truely free and democratic countries.

Load of .

[willyumiii]

Now that several posters have mentioned it, I must agree..

The overwhelming number of people who discuss the change in government and seem to even paying attention to it,

are expat posters here on Thaivisa.

The Thai people I know are not really concerned about it.

For them, life goes on much the same as before and they don't make a big deal about it.

Maybe we expats should follow their lead.

After all, it is their country and their government,

not our's.

[Winniedapu]

Now that several posters have mentioned it, I must agree..

The overwhelming number of people who discuss the change in government and seem to even paying attention to it,

are expat posters here on Thaivisa.

The Thai people I know are not really concerned about it.

For them, life goes on much the same as before and they don't make a big deal about it.

Maybe we expats should follow their lead.

After all, it is their country and their government,

not our's.

How does one distinguish between a Thai who does care and supports the Red Shirts but who has learned to keep quiet about it, from a Thai who doesn't actually care whether there is an exploitative and illegal government or not?

To be frank, I'm not sure how to be sure, if you follow...

Winnie

[Lannig]

Now that several posters have mentioned it, I must agree..

The overwhelming number of people who discuss the change in government and seem to even paying attention to it,

are expat posters here on Thaivisa.

The Thai people I know are not really concerned about it.

For them, life goes on much the same as before and they don't make a big deal about it.

Maybe we expats should follow their lead.

After all, it is their country and their government,

not our's.

Maybe they're just not talking to you...

[sjaak327]

While the UDD was/is a profoundly hierarchical undemocratic organization it did theoretically support democracy. Many of the Issan people feel that they have lost their voice, or rather a voice that purportedly represented them, in the government.

The Junta needs to bite the bullet: it's time to hold elections and abide by the results.

Oh they will. The whole reason for the coup is to make sure that elections matter less. The previous coup already tried to excersise control over the government by an appointed senate (50%), this lot goes a few steps further, a wholly appointed senate, and the very same senate will receive far reaching powers. Effectively ensuring continued control over how Thailand is run from a select few people, who have never received a mandate to do so.

Democracy "Thai sytle", yes elections, but they don't really matter.

August is going to be an interesting month to say the least.

Would you recommend the Thai people embrace either the UK or US style of "Democracy" instead, as a better alternative?

The one they had before the military stepped in and tore it up was adequate.

To be sure it was a "work in process" with many flaws and it needed to develop and mature, but it allowed the electorate to select the government they wanted by election in a secret ballot - which is the fundamental of democracy: as opposed to having it decided by a military junta backed by a small and shadowy elite of very wealthy people.

Since the question was originally addressed to me, I have made my position clear several times on this forum. I would like the nutty generals to take a hike and reinstate the people's constitution of 1997.

[phoenixdoglover]

^^

Who has been attacked?

Not you, my dear Baboon. You may have missed jesimps was addressing me.

Some here seem to have the idea that their arguments have more weight when they attach labels like 'fanboys' to their own arguments.

Yes, prejudicial labels can be overused, and often render the argument less credible.

Will you be changing your posting style to lessen your repetitive use of labels?

[sgtsabai]

Ahem, I don't count Chinese as tourists, they don't spend money, but their tours line certain pockets. They are not wanted here or anywhere else. But they are here, quietly and moving in, as in living. We never had a lot of farang visitors, thankfully, but our expat community has grown by leaps and bounds. I'm glad we have a government fanboy to keep the pot stirred. We are part of the gateway to Lao and many tourists were passing through for a few days before crossing the border. Last time I was in Vientiane was Nov. for the Embassy Marine Corps B-day Ball, I didn't see many farangs like I had before, but that could be attributed to my overnight stay. Maybe they just don't stop here anymore. This was never a "hub" for tourism but what there was has dropped significantly. Somebody obviously knows little about NE Issan.

[Plutojames88]

Today is the 2nd anniversary of the Coup d'état .

More importantly it was the day that the people's rights and freedom were taken away. They justified this action by claiming that YS government can no longer govern the country and it must be them in charge in order to proceed with reconciliation process.

I can only hope that the NCPO remembers what they promised to the people. I would like to ask them whether the reconciliation process has been inclusive and if it's going in the right direction or not. I also hope that the NCPO will accelerate the implementation of reforms that will move the country back towards path to democracy as specified by their own roadmap.

I have growing concerns because today, the people are suffering from economic hardship, poverty and critical social issues including increasing drug use. I wish that they will swiftly return happiness to the people, by happiness I mean the basic rights and freedom that will allow the people to once again choose their own destiny. They must also urgently address the problems facing the people. I believe that this is the best and only way out for the Thais country.

This will ensure that the past two years would not have been wasted. I remain hopeful that this will be the case.

But see a general each Friday night that looks increasingly comfortable with staying on.

I see a charter that's rigged .

Arrests and trumped up charges.

Fanboys here should worry about their future freedoms .

Even expression here is getting more guarded.

We are all starting to know the AA camps are only growing and some of us could be next.

Or beaten by drugged up Thais who are told we ruined their life's with sanctions not too far off?

Facebook mean time for me is no longer a wise option .

[Winniedapu]

Today is the 2nd anniversary of the Coup d'état .

More importantly it was the day that the people's rights and freedom were taken away. They justified this action by claiming that YS government can no longer govern the country and it must be them in charge in order to proceed with reconciliation process.

I can only hope that the NCPO remembers what they promised to the people. I would like to ask them whether the reconciliation process has been inclusive and if it's going in the right direction or not. I also hope that the NCPO will accelerate the implementation of reforms that will move the country back towards path to democracy as specified by their own roadmap.

I have growing concerns because today, the people are suffering from economic hardship, poverty and critical social issues including increasing drug use. I wish that they will swiftly return happiness to the people, by happiness I mean the basic rights and freedom that will allow the people to once again choose their own destiny. They must also urgently address the problems facing the people. I believe that this is the best and only way out for the Thais country.

This will ensure that the past two years would not have been wasted. I remain hopeful that this will be the case.

But see a general each Friday night that looks increasingly comfortable with staying on.

I see a charter that's rigged .

Arrests and trumped up charges.

Fanboys here should worry about their future freedoms .

Even expression here is getting more guarded.

We are all starting to know the AA camps are only growing and some of us could be next.

Or beaten by drugged up Thais who are told we ruined their life's with sanctions not too far off?

Facebook mean time for me is no longer a wise option .

Seems like fair comments all around, especially the Facebook one, something murky going on there, and nothing to do with Facebook itself.

All the things you note are evident and will get much worse, in my opinion, starting quite soon. It's nearly head-down time, but I hope to enjoy the fireworks.

Winnie

[sweatalot]

I live in the NE and the only difference I can see between the pre and post military takeover is the crackdown on gambling such as hi-low and Bok. Otherwise nothing has changed. I would like to see the reasons why the people are not happy.

Ridiculous post.

If you had an unelected govt ruling you would you be happy?

if you had a cheating stealing and incompetent government only filling their own pockets on the peoples' expense - would you be happy?

[seedy]

Flaming Posts Removed. Reply to the post, do not Attack the Poster.

[Plutojames88]

Now that several posters have mentioned it, I must agree..

The overwhelming number of people who discuss the change in government and seem to even paying attention to it,

are expat posters here on Thaivisa.

The Thai people I know are not really concerned about it.

For them, life goes on much the same as before and they don't make a big deal about it.

Maybe we expats should follow their lead.

After all, it is their country and their government,

not our's.

How does one distinguish between a Thai who does care and supports the Red Shirts but who has learned to keep quiet about it, from a Thai who doesn't actually care whether there is an exploitative and illegal government or not?

To be frank, I'm not sure how to be sure, if you follow...

Winnie

Apathy can be said to be as inactive as the people like a bow drawn but not yet in action.

Thailand has a dangerous mix.

When eventually it does fire it might with enormous force spring into action and events spiral fast.

Dialogue changes between international players highlights the rapid new ball park.

A recent comment that Thai government promises have been worthless seems now to be at the ""point of no return"

It's getting harder to issue press releases thanking us for understanding their position when we are frankly saying ""you stink""

So the gloves are being taken off and the energised atmosphere played out.

Pawns such as activists and PM s once running the nation , as well as citizens and politicians and charters .

The odd ambassador and human rights folks.

What a mix .

Just add the billionaire brother in Exile and elephant in Room and economic pressures and its a recipe to really make being a member here interesting reading ahead .

If not outright dangerous down the proverbial track .

[JAG]

Oh they will. The whole reason for the coup is to make sure that elections matter less. The previous coup already tried to excersise control over the government by an appointed senate (50%), this lot goes a few steps further, a wholly appointed senate, and the very same senate will receive far reaching powers. Effectively ensuring continued control over how Thailand is run from a select few people, who have never received a mandate to do so.

Democracy "Thai sytle", yes elections, but they don't really matter.

August is going to be an interesting month to say the least.

Would you recommend the Thai people embrace either the UK or US style of "Democracy" instead, as a better alternative?

The one they had before the military stepped in and tore it up was adequate.

It allowed the electorate to select the government they wanted by election in a secret ballot - which is the fundamental of democrac: as opposed to having it decided by a military junta backed by a small and shadowy elite of very wealthy people.

Reasoned from a Western background where people know right and duties. A constitution only functions when people behave.

The idea of "let's have an election" sound good but only when you assume the same status as you encounter in the Western democracies. When a part of the population has no problem with a criminal fugitive running the country that's just as bad as needing a coup to stop him from doing so.

I have rather made it a habit lately not to respond to your posts Rubl, because frankly I've become bored with the way that rather than argue a point which has any merit you change the topic or otherwise dissemble, usually with the result of derailing the thread. I have seen the tactic referred to elsewhere as "crayoning all over the thread". I also have to admit that I find your "faux courtesy" rather patronising. I am however going to break my silence on this one.

Our "western background" - we both come from constitutional monarchies, with well established democratic processes, independent judiciaries and impartial apolitical civil services and government agencies (including the military) obviously differs from the conditions that prevail here. Thailand is a young democracy, which has yet to develop the traditions which sustain our home countries. But the fact remains that it has held successful elections, the results of which have broadly accorded with the electorates wishes. The major agencies of the government, including the military, owe allegiance to an establishment which neither serves the people nor accepts that their wishes, as repeatedly expressed at the polls have any validity. The result - I think it is the case that no elected government apart from Thaksin's first administration has been allowed to run it's full term. That skewing of the process, throttling any chance for it to mature as our own countries have, results in the situation where a "criminal fugitive" is running, or at least heavily influencing the way the country is run. A large part of the population sees nothing wrong with that because the agencies and forces which removed him from office, prosecuted and convicted him, owe their allegiance to an establishment which was for various reasons hostile to him, (Thaksin) and take no account of the wishes of the electorate. One result of that is that a very large number of Thais simply regard his conviction as a political stitch up' so they continue to vote for him and his proxies.

Arguing that Thailand should not have elections until it has developed a western democratic tradition is firstly a classic example of "putting the cart before the horse". Secondly, it is actually very patronising - you are essentially saying that the Thai people are not ready for democracy. Who are you (or the others who repeat this mantra) to judge?

They should have the right to select their own government restored. And they should be allowed to keep it even if it results in a government distasteful to some. Then, and only then can Thai democracy mature.

[Baerboxer]

I live in the NE and the only difference I can see between the pre and post military takeover is the crackdown on gambling such as hi-low and Bok. Otherwise nothing has changed. I would like to see the reasons why the people are not happy.

Having their democratic right to choose a leader and a government being taken away maybe?, just a wild guess

Yawn.

Think back 1 step: democracy / democratic leaders ?

Their UDD / red leaders: elected democratically ?

They didn't have to be, they weren't up for election. Do you see the difference?

Don't you think it some what ironic that the UDD leaders are not democratically chosen, given the name of their organization?

And just how exactly do you suppose they were appointed?

[MyFriend You]

The haven't been paid to attend a political rally in two years - how can we expect them to be Happy losing that source of steady income............

[sweatalot]

may be the redshirt supporters in the NE are unhappy that the nice little presents from the Middle East don't come anymore, the promised wealth did not come and they as redshirts are not considered special anymore?

[sweatalot]

I have rather made it a habit lately not to respond to your posts Rubl, because frankly I've become bored with the way that rather than argue a point which has any merit you change the topic or otherwise dissemble, usually with the result of derailing the thread. I have seen the tactic referred to elsewhere as "crayoning all over the thread". I also have to admit that I find your "faux courtesy" rather patronising. I am however going to break my silence on this one.

Our "western background" - we both come from constitutional monarchies, with well established democratic processes, independent judiciaries and impartial apolitical civil services and government agencies (including the military) obviously differs from the conditions that prevail here. Thailand is a young democracy, which has yet to develop the traditions which sustain our home countries. But the fact remains that it has held successful elections, the results of which have broadly accorded with the electorates wishes. The major agencies of the government, including the military, owe allegiance to an establishment which neither serves the people nor accepts that their wishes, as repeatedly expressed at the polls have any validity. The result - I think it is the case that no elected government apart from Thaksin's first administration has been allowed to run it's full term. That skewing of the process, throttling any chance for it to mature as our own countries have, results in the situation where a "criminal fugitive" is running, or at least heavily influencing the way the country is run. A large part of the population sees nothing wrong with that because the agencies and forces which removed him from office, prosecuted and convicted him, owe their allegiance to an establishment which was for various reasons hostile to him, (Thaksin) and take no account of the wishes of the electorate. One result of that is that a very large number of Thais simply regard his conviction as a political stitch up' so they continue to vote for him and his proxies.

Arguing that Thailand should not have elections until it has developed a western democratic tradition is firstly a classic example of "putting the cart before the horse". Secondly, it is actually very patronising - you are essentially saying that the Thai people are not ready for democracy. Who are you (or the others who repeat this mantra) to judge?

They should have the right to select their own government restored. And they should be allowed to keep it even if it results in a government distasteful to some. Then, and only then can Thai democracy mature.

.. it would be more nepotism and more corruption that would mature

not democracy for sure

[gamini]

I live in the NE and the only difference I can see between the pre and post military takeover is the crackdown on gambling such as hi-low and Bok. Otherwise nothing has changed. I would like to see the reasons why the people are not happy.

Having their democratic right to choose a leader and a government being taken away maybe?, just a wild guess

wrong guess. Ask any poor Thai from the North what ails him and they will give 25 reasons like cost of living, security, medicine, education. housing etc etc. Democratic rights have never figured as having been of any importance to them.

[Baerboxer]

The one they had before the military stepped in and tore it up was adequate.

It allowed the electorate to select the government they wanted by election in a secret ballot - which is the fundamental of democrac: as opposed to having it decided by a military junta backed by a small and shadowy elite of very wealthy people.

Reasoned from a Western background where people know right and duties. A constitution only functions when people behave.

The idea of "let's have an election" sound good but only when you assume the same status as you encounter in the Western democracies. When a part of the population has no problem with a criminal fugitive running the country that's just as bad as needing a coup to stop him from doing so.

I have rather made it a habit lately not to respond to your posts Rubl, because frankly I've become bored with the way that rather than argue a point which has any merit you change the topic or otherwise dissemble, usually with the result of derailing the thread. I have seen the tactic referred to elsewhere as "crayoning all over the thread". I also have to admit that I find your "faux courtesy" rather patronising. I am however going to break my silence on this one.

Our "western background" - we both come from constitutional monarchies, with well established democratic processes, independent judiciaries and impartial apolitical civil services and government agencies (including the military) obviously differs from the conditions that prevail here. Thailand is a young democracy, which has yet to develop the traditions which sustain our home countries. But the fact remains that it has held successful elections, the results of which have broadly accorded with the electorates wishes. The major agencies of the government, including the military, owe allegiance to an establishment which neither serves the people nor accepts that their wishes, as repeatedly expressed at the polls have any validity. The result - I think it is the case that no elected government apart from Thaksin's first administration has been allowed to run it's full term. That skewing of the process, throttling any chance for it to mature as our own countries have, results in the situation where a "criminal fugitive" is running, or at least heavily influencing the way the country is run. A large part of the population sees nothing wrong with that because the agencies and forces which removed him from office, prosecuted and convicted him, owe their allegiance to an establishment which was for various reasons hostile to him, (Thaksin) and take no account of the wishes of the electorate. One result of that is that a very large number of Thais simply regard his conviction as a political stitch up' so they continue to vote for him and his proxies.

Arguing that Thailand should not have elections until it has developed a western democratic tradition is firstly a classic example of "putting the cart before the horse". Secondly, it is actually very patronising - you are essentially saying that the Thai people are not ready for democracy. Who are you (or the others who repeat this mantra) to judge?

They should have the right to select their own government restored. And they should be allowed to keep it even if it results in a government distasteful to some. Then, and only then can Thai democracy mature.

Democracy won't mature simply by holding elections. There are massive changes required in the judicial process, social changes especially in education and feudal hierarchical allegiance, the civil and military services and the corruption that permeates everything.

Holding elections without reform will simply provide more of the same. Bickering corrupt politicians, vying for line their own pockets with the old already established rich elite. That same scenario plays out in other third world and developing nations across the world, in Africa, South America, Asia, and even in some more mature democracies who claim to be first world.

Freedom of speech, accountability with transparency, a robust justice system that is fair and equitable to all without favor and dispenses law, order and appropriate sentences on those who transgress and a massive shift in education to enable society to move the a more egalitarian outlook and and for people to realize government is to serve not rule them and no one is above the law because of who there relations are or what job they do. Even in the West, corruption, nepotism, and the rich poor divide are still issues.

Holding an election without reform will simply allow crooked interests to get control (whether the Shiniwatra family or some others) and again try to put themselves above the law and enrich themselves. Once they go too far the Military will again step in. A vicious cycle that no one is breaking and will repeat until someone does. The Shiniwatra family's political parties have held power for most this century. What reforms have they enabled in that time? Real fundamental reforms to address the core issues?

[Baerboxer]

Now that several posters have mentioned it, I must agree..

The overwhelming number of people who discuss the change in government and seem to even paying attention to it,

are expat posters here on Thaivisa.

The Thai people I know are not really concerned about it.

For them, life goes on much the same as before and they don't make a big deal about it.

Maybe we expats should follow their lead.

After all, it is their country and their government,

not our's.

How does one distinguish between a Thai who does care and supports the Red Shirts but who has learned to keep quiet about it, from a Thai who doesn't actually care whether there is an exploitative and illegal government or not?

To be frank, I'm not sure how to be sure, if you follow...

Winnie

Apathy can be said to be as inactive as the people like a bow drawn but not yet in action.

Thailand has a dangerous mix.

When eventually it does fire it might with enormous force spring into action and events spiral fast.

Dialogue changes between international players highlights the rapid new ball park.

A recent comment that Thai government promises have been worthless seems now to be at the ""point of no return"

It's getting harder to issue press releases thanking us for understanding their position when we are frankly saying ""you stink""

So the gloves are being taken off and the energised atmosphere played out.

Pawns such as activists and PM s once running the nation , as well as citizens and politicians and charters .

The odd ambassador and human rights folks.

What a mix .

Just add the billionaire brother in Exile and elephant in Room and economic pressures and its a recipe to really make being a member here interesting reading ahead .

If not outright dangerous down the proverbial track .

The poster whose been forecasting impeding doom and eruption for so long now. And from the safety of Cambodia, or was it Viet Nam you withdrew to? Hardly a Nostradamus then.

Dream on if you think the US, EU, Nato, Aussie, Russia or China are going to turn Thailand into another Ukraine, Syria, Venezuela or Brazil. Thai people are not as dumb as you like to think.

Your posts are a continuous source of amusement though. Although you should go steady on the Marx and Engels.

[rubl]

Reasoned from a Western background where people know right and duties. A constitution only functions when people behave.

The idea of "let's have an election" sound good but only when you assume the same status as you encounter in the Western democracies. When a part of the population has no problem with a criminal fugitive running the country that's just as bad as needing a coup to stop him from doing so.

You seem to think that the situation will improve in Thailand under this junta, right?

Then please answer the following question (I'm not giving up on this):

After 19 coups/coup and attempts where nothing changed except the snouts in the trough (correct me if I'm wrong) what makes you think it will be different this time?

Well thank you very much for asking this again.

In the mean time it would seem that only foreigners 'know' what the article of the topic means. Unhappy as they are.

How about a reply? None of you junta supporters are able to answer that question and it really says it all.

You get annoying with adding this question to about every topic. Before you know it some with set out to destroy Carthage again.

[rubl]

I know that. I also know the same is done in other countries even in the West, the 'monitoring' part that is. Mind you, liking a page deemed ISIS-linked or deemed 'unacceptable' will get you in hot water, in the West.

My dear friend phoenixdoglover just wrote in another topic

"While repressive governments may not "like" it, history is filled with examples of human rights improvements secured through aggressive communication, sanctions, even violent means."

Now such in a facebook page will certainly make some law enforcement agencies pay more attention to you, even when your government is not 'repressive'.

I am dying to hear of just one example where someone has been jailed for liking a facebook post in the West.

Don't even try to suggest that what is happening in Thailand is even remotely comparable to what is happening in truely free and democratic countries.

Load of .

Search some yourself. If I post a link here people will accuse me again of being anti-America. Democratically so of course.

[rubl]

^^

Who has been attacked?

Not you, my dear Baboon. You may have missed jesimps was addressing me.

Some here seem to have the idea that their arguments have more weight when they attach labels like 'fanboys' to their own arguments.

Yes, prejudicial labels can be overused, and often render the argument less credible.

Will you be changing your posting style to lessen your repetitive use of labels?

Which labels do I use? None I think.

[jerojero]

3,500 people from the whole country what a joke

Actually if done truly randomly among entire adult Thai population, statistically the results would be 95% confident with variance about +/- 1.6% points. Don't need tens of thousands sample size to get reasonably accurate poll results, (again, if random sampled).

[rubl]

Would you recommend the Thai people embrace either the UK or US style of "Democracy" instead, as a better alternative?

The one they had before the military stepped in and tore it up was adequate.

It allowed the electorate to select the government they wanted by election in a secret ballot - which is the fundamental of democrac: as opposed to having it decided by a military junta backed by a small and shadowy elite of very wealthy people.

Reasoned from a Western background where people know right and duties. A constitution only functions when people behave.

The idea of "let's have an election" sound good but only when you assume the same status as you encounter in the Western democracies. When a part of the population has no problem with a criminal fugitive running the country that's just as bad as needing a coup to stop him from doing so.

I have rather made it a habit lately not to respond to your posts Rubl, because frankly I've become bored with the way that rather than argue a point which has any merit you change the topic or otherwise dissemble, usually with the result of derailing the thread. I have seen the tactic referred to elsewhere as "crayoning all over the thread". I also have to admit that I find your "faux courtesy" rather patronising. I am however going to break my silence on this one.

Our "western background" - we both come from constitutional monarchies, with well established democratic processes, independent judiciaries and impartial apolitical civil services and government agencies (including the military) obviously differs from the conditions that prevail here. Thailand is a young democracy, which has yet to develop the traditions which sustain our home countries. But the fact remains that it has held successful elections, the results of which have broadly accorded with the electorates wishes. The major agencies of the government, including the military, owe allegiance to an establishment which neither serves the people nor accepts that their wishes, as repeatedly expressed at the polls have any validity. The result - I think it is the case that no elected government apart from Thaksin's first administration has been allowed to run it's full term. That skewing of the process, throttling any chance for it to mature as our own countries have, results in the situation where a "criminal fugitive" is running, or at least heavily influencing the way the country is run. A large part of the population sees nothing wrong with that because the agencies and forces which removed him from office, prosecuted and convicted him, owe their allegiance to an establishment which was for various reasons hostile to him, (Thaksin) and take no account of the wishes of the electorate. One result of that is that a very large number of Thais simply regard his conviction as a political stitch up' so they continue to vote for him and his proxies.

Arguing that Thailand should not have elections until it has developed a western democratic tradition is firstly a classic example of "putting the cart before the horse". Secondly, it is actually very patronising - you are essentially saying that the Thai people are not ready for democracy. Who are you (or the others who repeat this mantra) to judge?

They should have the right to select their own government restored. And they should be allowed to keep it even if it results in a government distasteful to some. Then, and only then can Thai democracy mature.

Well thank you for that, nice you do not appreciate me always trying to turn to the topic. Nice to know that people do not like to hear what they do not want to hear. That's my opinion of course.

BTW you post gives some good info on why we cannot see Thailand as having been a democracy. The Thaksin public relation campaign also seems to have worked when juridical action against Thaksin's criminal behaviour is seen as 'political'. Same with his sister, 'democracy died'. Thailand has the right to get their corrupt government back again. Etc., etc.

Poor Thailand.

[Plutojames88]

Now that several posters have mentioned it, I must agree..

The overwhelming number of people who discuss the change in government and seem to even paying attention to it,

are expat posters here on Thaivisa.

The Thai people I know are not really concerned about it.

For them, life goes on much the same as before and they don't make a big deal about it.

Maybe we expats should follow their lead.

After all, it is their country and their government,

not our's.

How does one distinguish between a Thai who does care and supports the Red Shirts but who has learned to keep quiet about it, from a Thai who doesn't actually care whether there is an exploitative and illegal government or not?

To be frank, I'm not sure how to be sure, if you follow...

Winnie

Apathy can be said to be as inactive as the people like a bow drawn but not yet in action.

Thailand has a dangerous mix.

When eventually it does fire it might with enormous force spring into action and events spiral fast.

Dialogue changes between international players highlights the rapid new ball park.

A recent comment that Thai government promises have been worthless seems now to be at the ""point of no return"

It's getting harder to issue press releases thanking us for understanding their position when we are frankly saying ""you stink""

So the gloves are being taken off and the energised atmosphere played out.

Pawns such as activists and PM s once running the nation , as well as citizens and politicians and charters .

The odd ambassador and human rights folks.

What a mix .

Just add the billionaire brother in Exile and elephant in Room and economic pressures and its a recipe to really make being a member here interesting reading ahead .

If not outright dangerous down the proverbial track .

The poster whose been forecasting impeding doom and eruption for so long now. And from the safety of Cambodia, or was it Viet Nam you withdrew to? Hardly a Nostradamus then.

Dream on if you think the US, EU, Nato, Aussie, Russia or China are going to turn Thailand into another Ukraine, Syria, Venezuela or Brazil. Thai people are not as dumb as you like to think.

Your posts are a continuous source of amusement though. Although you should go steady on the Marx and Engels.

I have never said next week the curtain gets drawn back and on runs the mutes and half breeds jumping through burning hoops .

But stayed tuned we are getting started soon ...

It's only two years today since the circus got hijacked .

Same clowns essentially need to get drunk first .

Abuse the elephant trainer then I cut some holes in the net and then it's Show time.

Give it 6 months to 18 months and we should have the fat lady singing out front and the bearded lady selling peanuts to all you kooks that came to see the act.

Your boy I hear is a real flyer?

Edited May 22, 2016 by Plutojames88