Koh Tao murders appeal reveals shocking new evidence suggesting unfair trial and wrongful conviction

[stephenterry]

Extract from another recent murder, which remarkably has the victim clutching hair in her hand. I guess the 'comforter' person is a non-starter.

Police said they have strong evidence such as bloodstained shorts used by the assailant with what they say is the victim's blood on them. Hair from the assailant was also found in the victim's hand. DNA evidence is expected to seal their case.

Only wish the Koh Tao investigation was as above, with the right Thai turd identified and arrested.

[JLCrab]

You can come up with all sorts of scenarios as to who was the owner of the blond hair, how it got into the late Ms. Witheridge's hand, and whether the hair was natural or dyed blond, and whether the hair belonged to the actual killers, and probably some more.

The two persons arrested by Kuhn Panya as in the 23 SEP did not have blond hair. So to whomever the blond hair belonged, it didn't belong to them.

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/one-tourist-murder-suspect-now-arrested-another-run/

The oft repeated line here is that Kuhn Panya arrested the right persons and only changed that stance when pressured from the higher ups. But it seems that Kuhn Panya, even a week after the murders, was unaware of the blond hair unless he also thought that the hair belonged to someone other than the murderers as he said BOTH suspects and not 2 of them and that there are still others at large, possibly one belonging to the blond hair.

As for the discredited 'comforter' scenario, I was trained in water lifesaving that a person about to drown will reach out flailing and grab at the rescuer and even pull out hair of or scratch the attempted rescuer. You have to be prepared to go underwater and come up from behind the drowning victim and grab them before they know you are there. So that is what led to that scenario.

If you don't like, don't invite me to your next Christmas party.

Edited June 14, 2016 by JLCrab

[Khun Han]

stephenterry, on 12 Jun 2016 - 07:46, said:

Khun Han, on 12 Jun 2016 - 05:01, said:

Indeed Brian. The police officer who was cross examined about the lost hair perjured himself about his meetings with the coroner to discuss it. And then, astonishingly, he refused to answer further questions about it. This alone should have compromised the prosecution case, and would have at the very least been flagged up by the judge in his summing up in a first world court (and quite possibly resulted in him halting the trial). Not here: it was just 'swept under the carpet'. Breathtaking!!!

Poor chap. He probably quoted the Thai equivalent of the 5th amendment. BKK Brian - please provide a link to that highlighted as I'm sure the DNA outcome of the blond hair was not discussed in court.

The DNA outcome of the blonde hair was not discussed in court because it was stated early on that police forensics were unable to extract any DNA from it. However, it was revealed in court that the blonde hair still had the root attached! In western countries, it is perfectly possible to extract DNA from a hair sample with the root attached.

But the officer dealing with this evidence didn't get his lies straight with the coroner, so he was caught out perjuring himself in court, then refused to answer further questions on the matter!!!

All perfectly acceptable to the judges, of course.

[Bkk Brian]

The DNA outcome of the blonde hair was not discussed in court because it was stated early on that police forensics were unable to extract any DNA from it. However, it was revealed in court that the blonde hair still had the root attached! In western countries, it is perfectly possible to extract DNA from a hair sample with the root attached.

Interesting, if they lacked the capacity/technology to extract DNA from the hair then with it being such a vital piece of evidence one would have thought they would ask for help as they originally did from the FBI or send the hair sample to Singapore as they said they were going to do with all the DNA samples.

Sorry but I'm very suspicious on this, they said they found no DNA from the hair even though a root was attached.

How many times have they been proven in the trial to be less than forthcoming with the truth.

I liken it to the hoe saga. They originally said they could not extract any DNA from it. The defense expert Pornthip then revealed her lab results and the DNA that was found from Hannah, David and 2 unknown people.

What happens? Oh well they then change their story and say well actually we did find DNA on the hoe as well!!!

"After results of DNA found on the handle of the murder weapon was disclosed in court to be from the male victim, prosecution admitted they had also found DNA matching the male victim on the handle of the murder weapon, but no DNA matching the accused."

More perjury by the prosecution

Hannah left a clue for the world to see and whats been done with it? Disgrace

[Khun Han]

^"More perjury by the prosecution"

And the judges couldn't have cared less.

[xylophone]

^"More perjury by the prosecution"

And the judges couldn't have cared less.

Exactly, as I've said before, the verdict was "bought and paid for" before the trial got under way.

So no matter what flaws were in the prosecution's case, no matter how much they contaminated the crime scene, no matter that they 'lost' (conveniently?) items/evidence from the crime scene, no matter that they perjured themselves and no matter that they could not produce one bit of evidence linking the two Burmese to the murders, they convicted them because they went for a swim!

An absolute disgrace and it shows just how deep corruption goes in this place.

[stephenterry]

^"More perjury by the prosecution"

And the judges couldn't have cared less.

Exactly, as I've said before, the verdict was "bought and paid for" before the trial got under way.

So no matter what flaws were in the prosecution's case, no matter how much they contaminated the crime scene, no matter that they 'lost' (conveniently?) items/evidence from the crime scene, no matter that they perjured themselves and no matter that they could not produce one bit of evidence linking the two Burmese to the murders, they convicted them because they went for a swim!

An absolute disgrace and it shows just how deep corruption goes in this place.

And the same will happen to the appeal as it's the same Regional 8 crew who will handle the case. That will really make you sick.

[Khun Han]

The DNA outcome of the blonde hair was not discussed in court because it was stated early on that police forensics were unable to extract any DNA from it. However, it was revealed in court that the blonde hair still had the root attached! In western countries, it is perfectly possible to extract DNA from a hair sample with the root attached.

Interesting, if they lacked the capacity/technology to extract DNA from the hair then with it being such a vital piece of evidence one would have thought they would ask for help as they originally did from the FBI or send the hair sample to Singapore as they said they were going to do with all the DNA samples.

Sorry but I'm very suspicious on this, they said they found no DNA from the hair even though a root was attached.

How many times have they been proven in the trial to be less than forthcoming with the truth.

I liken it to the hoe saga. They originally said they could not extract any DNA from it. The defense expert Pornthip then revealed her lab results and the DNA that was found from Hannah, David and 2 unknown people.

What happens? Oh well they then change their story and say well actually we did find DNA on the hoe as well!!!

"After results of DNA found on the handle of the murder weapon was disclosed in court to be from the male victim, prosecution admitted they had also found DNA matching the male victim on the handle of the murder weapon, but no DNA matching the accused."

More perjury by the prosecution

Hannah left a clue for the world to see and whats been done with it? Disgrace

"Hannah left a clue for the world to see and whats been done with it? Disgrace"

One lives in hope that Thailand and it's justice system will join the twenty-first century in the lifetimes of most of the perpetrators of this disgrace, and that they will get their just desserts.

[Khun Han]

^"More perjury by the prosecution"

And the judges couldn't have cared less.

Exactly, as I've said before, the verdict was "bought and paid for" before the trial got under way.

So no matter what flaws were in the prosecution's case, no matter how much they contaminated the crime scene, no matter that they 'lost' (conveniently?) items/evidence from the crime scene, no matter that they perjured themselves and no matter that they could not produce one bit of evidence linking the two Burmese to the murders, they convicted them because they went for a swim!

An absolute disgrace and it shows just how deep corruption goes in this place.

And the same will happen to the appeal as it's the same Regional 8 crew who will handle the case. That will really make you sick.

I expect the defence team (though they would never publicly admit it) are playing the longer strategy, and view this appeal as a necessary middle stage which they will lose because of existing corruption. When the case goes to the next stage, we will find out at what level the corruption ends.

[Bkk Brian]

The DNA outcome of the blonde hair was not discussed in court because it was stated early on that police forensics were unable to extract any DNA from it. However, it was revealed in court that the blonde hair still had the root attached! In western countries, it is perfectly possible to extract DNA from a hair sample with the root attached.

Interesting, if they lacked the capacity/technology to extract DNA from the hair then with it being such a vital piece of evidence one would have thought they would ask for help as they originally did from the FBI or send the hair sample to Singapore as they said they were going to do with all the DNA samples.

Sorry but I'm very suspicious on this, they said they found no DNA from the hair even though a root was attached.

How many times have they been proven in the trial to be less than forthcoming with the truth.

I liken it to the hoe saga. They originally said they could not extract any DNA from it. The defense expert Pornthip then revealed her lab results and the DNA that was found from Hannah, David and 2 unknown people.

What happens? Oh well they then change their story and say well actually we did find DNA on the hoe as well!!!

"After results of DNA found on the handle of the murder weapon was disclosed in court to be from the male victim, prosecution admitted they had also found DNA matching the male victim on the handle of the murder weapon, but no DNA matching the accused."

More perjury by the prosecution

Hannah left a clue for the world to see and whats been done with it? Disgrace

"Hannah left a clue for the world to see and whats been done with it? Disgrace"

One lives in hope that Thailand and it's justice system will join the twenty-first century in the lifetimes of most of the perpetrators of this disgrace, and that they will get their just desserts.

Judging by their performance with the hoe then would can only assume the hair was tested and DNA extracted, but because it did not fit the whole prosecution sketch then this was not mentioned and instead the hair now unavailable. This fits in with their inability to get to story straight regards the meetings they had over the hairs and the refusal to say what was said in those meetings.

Yes one lives in hope

[stephenterry]

^"More perjury by the prosecution"

And the judges couldn't have cared less.

Exactly, as I've said before, the verdict was "bought and paid for" before the trial got under way.

So no matter what flaws were in the prosecution's case, no matter how much they contaminated the crime scene, no matter that they 'lost' (conveniently?) items/evidence from the crime scene, no matter that they perjured themselves and no matter that they could not produce one bit of evidence linking the two Burmese to the murders, they convicted them because they went for a swim!

An absolute disgrace and it shows just how deep corruption goes in this place.

And the same will happen to the appeal as it's the same Regional 8 crew who will handle the case. That will really make you sick.

I expect the defence team (though they would never publicly admit it) are playing the longer strategy, and view this appeal as a necessary middle stage which they will lose because of existing corruption. When the case goes to the next stage, we will find out at what level the corruption ends.

Agree. My thoughts exactly. What it could depend upon is who will be the Supreme court judges who will review the forwarded appeal, and whether the Regional 8 crew has any influence on them. And - as an aside - whether the headman's family is regarded as untouchable by the elite, which could have an effect on whether the SCJs want to risk their careers by overturning the verdict.

Sadly, corruption and power run hand in hand, as does monetary greed. Trumps justice. Migrant workers? Ten a penny.

[Khun Han]

^And possibly even more than their careers.

[Khun Han]

And I think that the elites abandoning the Tuvichiens would be seen as setting a bad precedent: they've done nothing 'wrong' politically, and were extremely useful during the 2013/2014 protests. And then there's the family friendship with the Thaugsuban clan.

[IslandLover]

Bkk Brian, on 14 Jun 2016 - 07:31, said:

IslandLover, on 14 Jun 2016 - 04:44, said:

The DNA outcome of the blonde hair was not discussed in court because it was stated early on that police forensics were unable to extract any DNA from it. However, it was revealed in court that the blonde hair still had the root attached! In western countries, it is perfectly possible to extract DNA from a hair sample with the root attached.

Interesting, if they lacked the capacity/technology to extract DNA from the hair then with it being such a vital piece of evidence one would have thought they would ask for help as they originally did from the FBI or send the hair sample to Singapore as they said they were going to do with all the DNA samples.

Sorry but I'm very suspicious on this, they said they found no DNA from the hair even though a root was attached.

How many times have they been proven in the trial to be less than forthcoming with the truth.

I liken it to the hoe saga. They originally said they could not extract any DNA from it. The defense expert Pornthip then revealed her lab results and the DNA that was found from Hannah, David and 2 unknown people.

What happens? Oh well they then change their story and say well actually we did find DNA on the hoe as well!!!

"After results of DNA found on the handle of the murder weapon was disclosed in court to be from the male victim, prosecution admitted they had also found DNA matching the male victim on the handle of the murder weapon, but no DNA matching the accused."

More perjury by the prosecution

Hannah left a clue for the world to see and whats been done with it? Disgrace

I agree. Also, if they were unable to extract any DNA from the hair sample, how could they say that it belonged to neither of the accused, or neither of the victims?

[Aj Mick]

The DNA outcome of the blonde hair was not discussed in court because it was stated early on that police forensics were unable to extract any DNA from it. However, it was revealed in court that the blonde hair still had the root attached! In western countries, it is perfectly possible to extract DNA from a hair sample with the root attached.

Interesting, if they lacked the capacity/technology to extract DNA from the hair then with it being such a vital piece of evidence one would have thought they would ask for help as they originally did from the FBI or send the hair sample to Singapore as they said they were going to do with all the DNA samples.

Sorry but I'm very suspicious on this, they said they found no DNA from the hair even though a root was attached.

How many times have they been proven in the trial to be less than forthcoming with the truth.

I liken it to the hoe saga. They originally said they could not extract any DNA from it. The defense expert Pornthip then revealed her lab results and the DNA that was found from Hannah, David and 2 unknown people.

What happens? Oh well they then change their story and say well actually we did find DNA on the hoe as well!!!

"After results of DNA found on the handle of the murder weapon was disclosed in court to be from the male victim, prosecution admitted they had also found DNA matching the male victim on the handle of the murder weapon, but no DNA matching the accused."

More perjury by the prosecution

Hannah left a clue for the world to see and whats been done with it? Disgrace

This trial, and the investigation from about the second week on, has never been about nailing the killers. It has long been about avoiding any evidence that would implicate them.

[TheLobster]

<snip>

Destruction of evidence is a crime in itself in most courts in the world and puts the alibi in a different legal light in most courts in the world.

Can you see it, can you see what you have written, let me help you:

'Destruction of evidence is a crime in itself in most courts in the world'

[JLCrab]

<snip>

Destruction of evidence is a crime in itself in most courts in the world and puts the alibi in a different legal light in most courts in the world.

Can you see it, can you see what you have written, let me help you:

'Destruction of evidence is a crime in itself in most courts in the world'

OH no! Hoist on my own petard am I? -- I get it -- you're saying others also destroyed evidence. Clever -- so go charge someone else with destruction of evidence. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Nothing gets by you fellas. No siree. You Betcha.

BTW as to the above query without extracted DNA how could they tell that the blond hair in question did not belong to either the two victims or the BS?

Maybe because the B2 had black hair.

The late Mr. Miller had brown hair.

And maybe because they visually compared the evidence blond hair to the late MS. Witheridge's own blond hair and by color and texture alone it was not the same. Not all blond hair is the same blond color.

Edited June 15, 2016 by JLCrab

[Bkk Brian]

The DNA outcome of the blonde hair was not discussed in court because it was stated early on that police forensics were unable to extract any DNA from it. However, it was revealed in court that the blonde hair still had the root attached! In western countries, it is perfectly possible to extract DNA from a hair sample with the root attached.

Interesting, if they lacked the capacity/technology to extract DNA from the hair then with it being such a vital piece of evidence one would have thought they would ask for help as they originally did from the FBI or send the hair sample to Singapore as they said they were going to do with all the DNA samples.

Sorry but I'm very suspicious on this, they said they found no DNA from the hair even though a root was attached.

How many times have they been proven in the trial to be less than forthcoming with the truth.

I liken it to the hoe saga. They originally said they could not extract any DNA from it. The defense expert Pornthip then revealed her lab results and the DNA that was found from Hannah, David and 2 unknown people.

What happens? Oh well they then change their story and say well actually we did find DNA on the hoe as well!!!

"After results of DNA found on the handle of the murder weapon was disclosed in court to be from the male victim, prosecution admitted they had also found DNA matching the male victim on the handle of the murder weapon, but no DNA matching the accused."

More perjury by the prosecution

Hannah left a clue for the world to see and whats been done with it? Disgrace

This trial, and the investigation from about the second week on, has never been about nailing the killers. It has long been about avoiding any evidence that would implicate them.

Talking about evidence what about the evidence that Thai's were thought to have attempted to destroy back in the early part of the investigation? What information did they give that was misleading and intended to divert attention?

This was reported in the Nation on the 23rd Sept 2014:

Meanwhile, Pol Maj Gen Kittipong Kaosam-ang, a Surat Thani police commander, asked the media not to report in-depth investigation results, saying it may give some clues to the culprits. But he revealed that Thais may have been involved in the murders and had tried to destroy evidence linking them to the attacks. Some people on Koh Tao had given false information to police in a bid to divert attention.

Also in the same article above Somyot confirmed that a second weapon a wooden club was involved in the murders. What happened to this club?

Plenty of evidence that never made it to court, discarded, lost, destroyed, used up whatever, end result never to see the light of day again.

Edited June 16, 2016 by Bkk Brian

[JLCrab]

From the above linked Nation article:

'Somyot said police had a theory that the killers may come and left the island on the same night. "Koh Tao is an area where people, Thais, migrant workers as well as foreign tourists come and go all the time," he said.'

Weak argument that foreign tourists who come and go all the time might be involved.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Koh-Tao-police-fail-another-day-30243890.html

[stephenterry]

Jlc...that's one of your arguments. No one will bite.

Somyot muddying the waters to take the heat off the mafia family.

[JLCrab]

Jlc...that's one of your arguments. No one will bite.

Somyot muddying the waters to take the heat off the mafia family.

OK -- So stick with Panya who told PBS 23 SEP that 'both suspects' were captured by CCTV cameras and the police have gathered enough evidence to implicate them in the murders.

All he would've had to do is to have shown the evidence and the CCTV video to the PBS reporter and it would've been duck soup. He didn't.

And I don't give a hoot whether you bite or not -- that's up to you.

Edited June 16, 2016 by JLCrab

[stephenterry]

Clearly, Panya would have solved the murders had he not been got at. The nation's article makes a number of good points that were subsequently buried.

But please keep on topic, these two posts don't.

[JLCrab]

Clearly, Panya would have solved the murders had he not been got at. The nation's article makes a number of good points that were subsequently buried.

But please keep on topic, these two posts don't.

Clearly.

[xylophone]

Jlc...that's one of your arguments. No one will bite.

Somyot muddying the waters to take the heat off the mafia family.

I like the fact that you and I, along with the other "pro-two Burmese" posters are keeping the topic open and alive and sometimes bringing up some good points.

However directing anything at JLCrab is pointless because he has already stated his raison d'être as regards this thread and it is to goad, play along, antagonise posters and get enjoyment out of doing so.

He has already said he believes there has been a mistrial, and he has also said that he enjoys trying to prove the theories put forward by others as to who the murderers are, to be baseless, groundless, speculative etc.

He does this by deliberately obfuscated posts, some fairly "tongue in cheek" I would say, and others designed to antagonise (see his one word response to your post: – "Clearly").

Despite the fact that you and others may have decided that you are "not going to bite", this is in fact what you do and this is what provides his enjoyment (his words).

Up to you how you endeavour to stop him having enjoyment at your expense.

[JLCrab]

<snip>.

Exactly, as I've said before, the verdict was "bought and paid for" before the trial got under way.

<snip2>

You've got a copy of the logbook, huh, just like with the Natatree?

[xylophone]

Jlc...that's one of your arguments. No one will bite.

Somyot muddying the waters to take the heat off the mafia family.

I like the fact that you and I, along with the other "pro-two Burmese" posters are keeping the topic open and alive and sometimes bringing up some good points.

However directing anything at JLCrab is pointless because he has already stated his raison d'être as regards this thread and it is to goad, play along, antagonise posters and get enjoyment out of doing so.

He has already said he believes there has been a mistrial, and he has also said that he enjoys trying to prove the theories put forward by others as to who the murderers are, to be baseless, groundless, speculative etc.

He does this by deliberately obfuscated posts, some fairly "tongue in cheek" I would say, and others designed to antagonise (see his one word response to your post: – "Clearly").

Despite the fact that you and others may have decided that you are "not going to bite", this is in fact what you do and this is what provides his enjoyment (his words).

Up to you how you endeavour to stop him having enjoyment at your expense.

I have given my previous post some thought and I really don't have time for someone who takes enjoyment out of winding others up and antagonising them, this especially when the subject matter is about a brutal and tragic murder case, because I think it's sick.

So I'm taking some affirmative action by putting this poster on my "ignore list" thereby ensuring I won't have to see any more of his posts, however I will be able to view other posts as I see fit, so I can keep up the good fight with regards to this blatant miscarriage of justice.

And for the record.................

Crime scene investigation as it should be.docx

[JLCrab]

The subject is indeed two brutal tragic murders which I take seriously. But that doesn't mean I have to take those who post about it seriously. When someone can come on a website like this and accuse those who are in charge of a murder investigation and those who would prosecute and judge such a judicial proceeding with accepting bribes to influence their decision without one iota of tangible proof -- whether they have indeed accepted those bribes or not -- I don't see how they can get on their high-horse and accuse others of not taking THEM seriously.

Edited June 17, 2016 by JLCrab

[Aj Mick]

The subject is indeed two brutal tragic murders which I take seriously. But that doesn't mean I have to take those who post about it seriously. When someone can come on a website like this and accuse those who are in charge of a murder investigation and those who would prosecute and judge such a judicial proceeding with accepting bribes to influence their decision without one iota of tangible proof -- whether they have indeed accepted those bribes or not -- I don't see how they can get on their high-horse and accuse others of not taking THEM seriously.

That the investigation (from about the second week onwards), the prosecution and the judiciary can come up with a guilty verdict and a life sentence without an iota of verifiable evidence (and evidence that could implicate certain others apparently lost, mislaid, "used up" or simply regarded as not significant to the case against a pair of scapegoats) suggests some serious meddling, collusion and horse-trading along the way.

A pair of lives tragically lost, a pair of lives ruined and under sentence of death of death, and a killer or killers on the loose, with a few suspicious deaths since.

Justice is certainly not being done. If people don't come on a website like this to continue to raise awareness it could soon be forgotten (as the powers that be seem to wish it was).

[JLCrab]

You can question the judgment of the Court all you want. But when persons on here go off on wild speculative scenarios as to what they think really happened because they just KNOW how things really work in Thailand, you aren't doing those 2 now sitting in custody any good. You just make it so that those in charge say they have no reason to pay much if any heed to those wacko farangs who think scores of persons can be in on a collusion and not one person has stepped out of line or inadvertently done something stupid.

... or that a Supreme Court Justice in Bangkok should be maybe fearful for his life if he steps out line in giving his or verdict should the case ever get that far.

... and as of late, far more people come to this website to read about the massage parlor busts than are concerned about what happens to the fate of the w Burmese.

If there are killers on the loose they have been behaving themselves pretty well. Maybe as long as the B2 go through their various appeals they will continue to lay low except for the occasional suspicious death. Of course it becomes a problem for psychopathic murderers to see hot blonds come to Koh Tao every day and realize that if their advances are ever spurned , they can't beat them to death like that did almost 2 years back. But they are just a ticking time bomb so as it has been often said they will strike again because they've become good at it.

Edited June 17, 2016 by JLCrab

[balo]

Putting anyone on the ignore list like xylophone just did means he is not willing to look at both sides of the coin.

Yes we all know how the Thai justice system works and it's not up to western standards we expect.

But that does not mean we should close our eyes when members here have some interesting theories of what might have happened. Instead of just confirming that my word is the only right one , because I want justice for B2 since they are clearly innocent in many peoples eyes.

Edited June 17, 2016 by balo