Australian tourist stuck in Thai hospital after head-on collision, owing $56,000 in medical bills

[Sheryl]

And all policies that I have ever read exclude payment for any injury sustained as a result of violating the law...such as driving without a license.

[kiwikeith]

On ‎28‎/‎01‎/‎2017 at 2:59 PM, BarnicaleBob said:

If you would have read the whole story, you would know that she had insurance but it did not cover her for driving a moped.  So her only mistake was to rent a moped without reading the fine print on her travel insurance policy

 

NZ law says you can ride a moped no more than 50cc without a bike licence, but not sure about the aussie rules.

She would need an international license to drive any vehicle here, although I have hired bikes with a NZ one, they don't care.

I now have Thai license and full insurance.

Insurance companies have that many out clauses these days that you need to read them thoroughly.

My friend had his car stolen and the insurance company asked if the car had an alarm.

He told them yes it did but it was not working, they denied his claim.

[lvr181]

3 hours ago, kiwikeith said:

NZ law says you can ride a moped no more than 50cc without a bike licence, but not sure about the aussie rules.

She would need an international license to drive any vehicle here, although I have hired bikes with a NZ one, they don't care.

I now have Thai license and full insurance.

Insurance companies have that many out clauses these days that you need to read them thoroughly.

My friend had his car stolen and the insurance company asked if the car had an alarm.

He told them yes it did but it was not working, they denied his claim.

"My friend had his car stolen and the insurance company asked if the car had an alarm.

He told them yes it did but it was not working, they denied his claim."

If a working alarm was a policy condition then they had every right to deny a claim of theft.

[Naamblar2014]

Anyone queried the cost.  $5600 AUD a day seems excessive when these Thai life insurance policies cover around 6000 BAHT per day.i hear about people staying in the Hilton of hospitals in private rooms and it's all covered with such a small daily limit.

[F4UCorsair]

5 minutes ago, Naamblar2014 said:

Anyone queried the cost.  $5600 AUD a day seems exce $ssive when these Thai life insurance policies cover around 6000 BAHT per day.i hear about people staying in the Hilton of hospitals in private rooms and it's all covered with such a small daily limit.

Good point.  I was In an  Orthopedic ward   In Australia last year, not Intensive care, but high level care, for five days, about A$1200 a day, surgeon, anaesthetist extra.

$56K sounds like an exaggerated amount.

[surinteacher2016]

1 hour ago, F4UCorsair said:

Good point.  I was In an  Orthopedic ward   In Australia last year, not Intensive care, but high level care, for five days, about A$1200 a day, surgeon, anaesthetist extra.

$56K sounds like an exaggerated amount.

It's  a Bumrungrad kind of price range. 

[F4UCorsair]

13 minutes ago, surinteacher2016 said:

It'in  a Bumrungrad kind of price rantge. 

I spent a couple of days In Bumrungrad three years ago, and whilst I don't recall the exact figure, It was nothing like $1200 a day, or even $1200 total.   It may have changed of course.

The surgeon was $600 compared with $3000+ In Melbourne.

[LPCustom69]

On 1/29/2017 at 1:30 AM, Dan5 said:

We? Do you speak for the whole group? And where did you live in America? La La land? Personally I've never had a problem since the companies I've worked for have always taken care of my insurance, but I know people who have. And if you didn't live in La La land and read the newspapers, you could have read literally 100s of articles over the years about what I've talking about., And yes I remember you. Always supportive of the insurance companies.

Never lived in lala land. I've always been supportive of insurance companies? I just get tired of people spreading manure!

[Old Croc]

I'm surprised at the people here blaming the insurance company for voiding the policy.

The bike she swerved across the road into the path of the truck (witness statements) was 110cc, not a 50cc moped. She did not hold a motorbike license so why should she expect insurance to pay?   It's not about small print it's about common sense.

She's a patient in the Neurology Science Centre at Bangkok Phuket Hospital where her medical treatment for a fractured skull, brain injury and multiple broken bones must be more complex than just room and board, so costs would be high. Comparisons with their last hospital stint by some posters here are probably like comparing apples to oranges. 

All sympathies with the lady, and it seems costs will be covered by the fund raiser. Best wishes for a complete recovery.

[Sheryl]

You need to consider her condition and the nature of care required ... this amount would not be room charge alone nor is it correct to average out the total as a daily rate. There will be separate charges tor surgeries on the days they were performed and different daily charges according to whether in ICU or regular floor and meds, treatments given. There will also be a substantial charge for initial ER treatment. It is not a case of "$5600 a day".

As I understand it she required specialized surgeries and ICU care.

I have many times seen govt hospital bills reach this amount and highet when gor example there were prolonged stays in ICU and multiple neurosurgeries.

If at Bunrungrad or similiar it would be easily 3-5 times the amount.

[Andrew65]

22 hours ago, F4UCorsair said:

I spent a couple of days In Bumrungrad three years ago, and whilst I don't recall the exact figure, It was nothing like $1200 a day, or even $1200 total.   It may have changed of course.

The surgeon was $600 compared with $3000+ In Melbourne.

Many years ago a friend of mine came down with meningitis here.

 

The bill was 2 million Baht for 30 days in ICU at B'Grad.

 

Another had a colonectomy at B'Grad, that was 1 million Baht. I did a search on the web and found that to be about the same as in the US, a hospital in Iowa would do the same op for about US$28,000.

Edited February 1, 2017 by Andrew65

[F4UCorsair]

20 minutes ago, Andrew65 said:

Many years ago a friend of mine came down with meningitis here.

 

The bill was 2 million Baht for 30 days in ICU at B'Grad.

 

Another had a colonectomy at B'Grad, that was 1 million Baht. I did a search on the web and found that to be about the same as in the US, a hospital in Iowa would do the same op for about US$28,000.

Prices have obviously Increased.  Significantly!!!

[Andrew65]

18 minutes ago, F4UCorsair said:

Prices have obviously Increased.  Significantly!!!

.......the guy with meningitis was fully covered by travel insurance, by the way.

 

Americans keep saying how much cheaper healthcare is in Thailand in comparison with the US, maybe that's their perception, but my research suggests otherwise.

 

According to an online cost estimator on Wrightmed.com, an estimate of $28,385.64.

[Sheryl]

Costs at private hospitals in Thailand have gone up enormously in the past decade and are continuing to go up. Indeed the gap between costs at them and in Western countries is narrowing.

[Flustered]

On 28/01/2017 at 8:08 AM, Nemesis7 said:

How sad how the insurance companies deprives a person who is insured. And strongly agree that the first thing they should clearly state are the things which are not covered in bold and big fonts. 

Mikkions if people buys insurance and hardly few clams and then the insurance companies are always trying to find tricks to avoid payments upon genuine claims , it's sad.

hooe the victims friends and family could raise the money and mostly she gets well. 

Please, please read the whole story and watch the video before being a luvvy.

 

She does not have any form of motorbike license, either Australian nor Thai.

Travel insurance does not cover you for riding a motorbike or driving a car. If you found one that did, they would want your full license details and she does not have one.

Not having a driving license for a motorbike probably means she is very inexperienced yet she carried her son on the back.

 

This is sheer stupidity. Let her kill or maim herself but think of the other innocent victims that could have been hurt or killed by her stupidity.

 

Of course the insurance company will not pay up. She was taking part in an action not covered by them. Her friends and family do not have to raise the money, she is already in profit through a web based fund raiser.

 

A very sad case but so easily avoidable if only she had acted as an adult person.

 

But to ask others to pay for her folly is beyond the pale

[mikeymike100]

On 1/30/2017 at 9:11 PM, stevenl said:

No, they do not try to not pay.
There is these days no small print in most policies, and policies are quite easy to read and understand these days.

sent using Tapatalk
 

You are absolutely wrong. Insurance companies sometimes go to extreme lengths not to pay. Do a bit of research.

[stevenl]

You are absolutely wrong. Insurance companies sometimes go to extreme lengths not to pay. Do a bit of research.

Insurance companies will pay if a claim is reasonable and warrants payment. They do not look for excuses not to pay.

I don't need to look for exceptions, since I know very well how the general rule works.

sent using Tapatalk

[lvr181]

On 2/3/2017 at 5:58 PM, mikeymike100 said:

You are absolutely wrong. Insurance companies sometimes go to extreme lengths not to pay. Do a bit of research.

Unfortunately for you, you are wrong! I worked for many years in the insurance industry and generally speaking they will pay the claim, with obvious exceptions.

 

Get the chip off your shoulder and start enjoying your life.

 

[yogavnture]

On ‎1‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 2:58 PM, chrisfwilson said:

She has travel insurance but the company won't pay as she didn't have an appropriate licence and no helmet.

just to prevent insurance scam .  what would be an appropriate license for a foreigner to have?  if I have a usa license with motorbike endorsement and I get in motorbike crash . my insurance company can cop out on paying?

[Sheryl]

It is neither a scam nor copping out.

 

Insurance companies will not pay for injuries sustained in the course of an illegal activity (and also, usually, while intoxicated).

 

So the issue is whether it is legal in Thailand, under Thai law, to drive with only a US license. 

 

I may be wrong but I think it is not unless you also have an International Driving Permit (IDP).  Which are not hard to get.

 

Note that some insurance policies have exclusions related to motorcycles - not all, but some, especially travel policies. So need to read the provisions carefully before selecting a policy. Others will cover it but only under a separate level of policy. (Ditto high risk sports like scuba..even sky-diving.).

 

There is no getting around the need to read policy terms. An amazing number of people do not do this (even what was in large print on the website), assume that "insurance" automatically means "everything is covered under all circumstances" and then cry foul when they try to claim something that the policy clearly excludes.

[Flustered]

3 hours ago, yogavnture said:

if I have a usa license with motorbike endorsement

Just to lighten it up a bit.

 

Please remember that outside of America, countries have things called "bends". Americans are not known for their handling capabilities on bendy roads due to the long straight ones they are used to riding/driving on.

 

But in your favour, the motorbike you may hire in Thailand will have superb brakes, excellent suspension, perfect tyres and be fully serviced.

 

Thai riders/drivers will always show the the greatest courtesy at all times and give you priority. If you ride/drive in Phuket, watch out for moving electricity pylons. They move around in the early hours of the morning waiting to crash into innocent riders/drivers who are perfectly sober, not on drugs, within the speed limits and on the correct side of the road.

[lvr181]

1 hour ago, Flustered said:

Just to lighten it up a bit.

 

Please remember that outside of America, countries have things called "bends". Americans are not known for their handling capabilities on bendy roads due to the long straight ones they are used to riding/driving on.

 

But in your favour, the motorbike you may hire in Thailand will have superb brakes, excellent suspension, perfect tyres and be fully serviced.

 

Thai riders/drivers will always show the the greatest courtesy at all times and give you priority. If you ride/drive in Phuket, watch out for moving electricity pylons. They move around in the early hours of the morning waiting to crash into innocent riders/drivers who are perfectly sober, not on drugs, within the speed limits and on the correct side of the road.

Love your sense of humour 

[stevenl]

Unfortunately for you, you are wrong! I worked for many years in the insurance industry and generally speaking they will pay the claim, with obvious exceptions.
 
Get the chip off your shoulder and start enjoying your life.
 

just to prevent insurance scam .  what would be an appropriate license for a foreigner to have?  if I have a usa license with motorbike endorsement and I get in motorbike crash . my insurance company can cop out on paying?

What insurance scam?
You don't hold the required full motorbike license.

sent using Tapatalk

[4MyEgo]

6 hours ago, Sheryl said:

It is neither a scam nor copping out.

 

Insurance companies will not pay for injuries sustained in the course of an illegal activity (and also, usually, while intoxicated).

 

So the issue is whether it is legal in Thailand, under Thai law, to drive with only a US license. 

 

I may be wrong but I think it is not unless you also have an International Driving Permit (IDP).  Which are not hard to get.

 

Note that some insurance policies have exclusions related to motorcycles - not all, but some, especially travel policies. So need to read the provisions carefully before selecting a policy. Others will cover it but only under a separate level of policy. (Ditto high risk sports like scuba..even sky-diving.).

 

There is no getting around the need to read policy terms. An amazing number of people do not do this (even what was in large print on the website), assume that "insurance" automatically means "everything is covered under all circumstances" and then cry foul when they try to claim something that the policy clearly excludes.

I went as far as to ask a motorbike hiring place is it had insurance for the intending rider (me), yes no pompem, was the reply, can I have a look at the policy please, no pompen, have insurance, my pen rye, no pompen, suffice to say I didn't take the bike which was for hire, common sense really and yes as you say, read any insurance policy thoroughly, suffice to say I just took out house insurance and reading found that it didn't cover landslides, unless caused by an earthquake, so at least I know if the house goes down that way, I am up shit creek so to speak, but I am sure others would cry fowl play if they didn't read the policy and they had a land slide.

[4MyEgo]

On 31/01/2017 at 2:27 PM, kiwikeith said:

NZ law says you can ride a moped no more than 50cc without a bike licence, but not sure about the aussie rules.

She would need an international license to drive any vehicle here, although I have hired bikes with a NZ one, they don't care.

I now have Thai license and full insurance.

Insurance companies have that many out clauses these days that you need to read them thoroughly.

My friend had his car stolen and the insurance company asked if the car had an alarm.

He told them yes it did but it was not working, they denied his claim.

A guy recently lost his probationary license down under for riding a motorised esky, and he was under the influence, ozzie ozzie ozzie, oy oy oy, piss-head, so I would think you need a license for almost anything with a motor down under.

 

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/melbourne-man-caught-drink-driving-motorised-esky-20161204-gt3o3f.html

[yogavnture]

22 hours ago, Flustered said:

Just to lighten it up a bit.

 

Please remember that outside of America, countries have things called "bends". Americans are not known for their handling capabilities on bendy roads due to the long straight ones they are used to riding/driving on.

 

But in your favour, the motorbike you may hire in Thailand will have superb brakes, excellent suspension, perfect tyres and be fully serviced.

 

Thai riders/drivers will always show the the greatest courtesy at all times and give you priority. If you ride/drive in Phuket, watch out for moving electricity pylons. They move around in the early hours of the morning waiting to crash into innocent riders/drivers who are perfectly sober, not on drugs, within the speed limits and on the correct side of the road.

this is lighten it up a bit?  how do u know how americans drive?  your bendy road analogy is stupid   .  motorbike condition in Thailand?  again inaccurate and stupid post.  how do u know how motorbike shops maintain bikes in Thailand.  quit generalizing. americans and thai motorbikes.  what is a moving elect. pylon?

[Flustered]

1 hour ago, yogavnture said:

this is lighten it up a bit?  how do u know how americans drive?  your bendy road analogy is stupid   .  motorbike condition in Thailand?  again inaccurate and stupid post.  how do u know how motorbike shops maintain bikes in Thailand.  quit generalizing. americans and thai motorbikes.  what is a moving elect. pylon?

Re Written my response......

 

Assuming you are American, I will explain the joke to you.

 

My first statement holds good. American cars in particular are probably the worst in the world for handling on tight, winding bends. Most of your roads are straight or long slow curves so you do not need to pay as much attention to suspension and positive steering.

 

Second, most rental bikes are poorly service, have crapy brakes, shot suspension, bad tyres and are poorly serviced.

 

Thai drivers are among the worst in the world. Electric pylons are one of the main causes of death in motorbike crashes. Read the Phuket blog.

 

This takes me back to the 90s in Virginia where I spent much of my time explaining humour to my workplace.

Edited February 8, 2017 by Flustered

[Plotholes]

Seems straightforward to me. No licence, no coverage. 

 

Best wishes to the recovery though

[geriatrickid]

The option to purchase  motorcycle coevrage is clearly stated on the web page. One has the option of basic or comprehensive and adding an adventure pack.

 

And sorry to say, the Allian conditions were legitimate and reasonable. Unqualified and irresponsible people cannot expect a third party to pay for the  damage they will incur because of their engaging in activities that they should not engage in. As a nurse she should have known that it is a responsible behaviour to wear a helmet. She also had the option of covering  the use of a motorbike.

 

For reference sake, this is what her policy says.

A.13] Your claim arises directly or indirectly from, or is in any way connected with:

•  you driving a motor vehicle or riding a moped or scooter without a current Australian drivers licence or drivers licence valid for the country you are driving or riding in. This applies even if you are not required by law to hold a licence in the country you are driving or riding in;

•  you riding a motorcycle without a current Australian motorcycle licence or motorcycle licence valid for the country you are riding in. This applies even if you are not required to hold a motorcycle licence because you hold a drivers licence, or a motorcycle licence is not required by law in the country you are riding in;

•  you travelling as a passenger on a motorcycle, moped or scooter that is in the control of a person who does not hold a current motorcycle or drivers licence valid for the vehicle being ridden and for the country you are riding in;

•  you riding, or travelling as a passenger, on a motorcycle with an engine capacity greater than 250cc or on a quad bike except as provided under the ADDITIONAL OPTION - ADVENTURE PACK and you have paid the additional premium for ADVENTURE PACK;

•  you riding, or travelling as a passenger, on a motorcycle, moped, scooter or quad bike without wearing a helmet

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[HooHaa]

On 1/28/2017 at 3:59 PM, BarnicaleBob said:

If you would have read the whole story, you would know that she had insurance but it did not cover her for driving a moped.  So her only mistake was to rent a moped without reading the fine print on her travel insurance policy

 

 Jesus, did you read the article? 

 

There was no prohibition against mopeds, however she was not liscenced to do so in australia, voiding her insurance policy.