Thai Air Force awaits answers on fatal Gripen crash

[webfact]

Air Force awaits answers on fatal Gripen crash
By JITRAPORN SENAWONG
THE NATION

 

 

BANGKOK: -- THE AIR FORCE is attempting to determine the cause of the deadly JAS 39 Gripen crash |at a Songkhla air show this month, as it |considers buying a full fleet of the Swedish-made fighter jets to make up one of the strongest air forces in Asean.

 

Authorities are waiting for answers from the maker of the jet fighter, the aerospace company Saab, which has received the aircraft’s crash survivable memory unit (CSMU), more commonly referred to as the “black box” that records flight data in the event of a crash.

 

Saab received the CSMU days after the crash that killed Squadron Leader Dilokrit Pattawee on Children’s Day. 

 

The investigation is expected to take about two months based on the analysis of the pre-crash condition of the aircraft, flying conditions at the time of the accident, and relevant issues regarding the pilot and management. 

 

Full story: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/news/national/30305238

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2017-01-30

[jerojero]

And why does Thailand need one of the strongest air forces in the region? Meanwhile poverty reigns among majority of the Thai population.

[Wilsonandson]

According to many comments made on the social media, pilot error seemed to be the cause of the tragic crash. Just saying, Rip to the pilot.

[Brer Fox]

So now the PM and his cadets are adding a fleet of combat aircraft to the toys wish list. What next after that?

Submarine

Tanks

Combat aircraft

???

???

[ratcatcher]

6 minutes ago, Brer Fox said:

So now the PM and his cadets are adding a fleet of combat aircraft to the toys wish list. What next after that?

Submarine

Tanks

Combat aircraft

???

???

"What next after that?"

Declare war on China?

[Srikcir]

I have seen reports on previous Thai military aircraft crashes. When it's reported from aircraft manufacturers that mechanical problems were not the cause, the military reports conclude cause "unknown." Such a conclusion might be expected when the deceased pilots are automatically promoted to provide better benefits to pilot's survivors - military would lose face promoting a dead pilot who was the cause for a crash.

[mtls2005]

Wonder if these have been grounded, pending the results of the investigation

 

Maybe time to hang a few extra amulets off the mirror? And a relic for the dash.

[Hayduke]

58 minutes ago, Brer Fox said:

So now the PM and his cadets are adding a fleet of combat aircraft to the toys wish list. What next after that?

Submarine

Tanks

Combat aircraft

???

???

All of these arms purchases are not necessary for or intended to defend the Kingdom. Yes, all of this technology is visually appealing and handy for parade photo ops. Actually using it is another matter. But the main value of these mega-purchases is that they offer wonderful opportunities to siphon off piles of cash into select pockets.

[phrisco17]

Lots of crashes attributed to poor piloting skills, especially in bad weather; many military  pilots do not have an instrument rating and/or experience.  Military flight training/experience does not convert to a Civilian License as it does in other counties; pilots require additional training and evaluation prior to receiving a civilian license. Military Pilots are not required to communicate with Air Traffic Control in English; most have poor English communication skills. Military pilots function in an heirarchial and feudalistic cockpit where the captain is always right regardless; multi crew concept and cockpit resource management are vogue buzz words with little or no application. The problem in a nut shell.

Edited January 30, 2017 by phrisco17

[mtls2005]

Yes, all of this technology is visually appealing and handy for parade photo ops.

 

Or not, when it crashes in a spectacular ball of flames and smoke traumatizing the children on "Children's Day"?

[phrisco17]

2 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

Yes, all of this technology is visually appealing and handy for parade photo ops.

 

Or not, when it crashes in a spectacular ball of flames and smoke traumatizing the children on "Children's Day"?

And most do not understand the technology much less its proper use!

[Stargeezr]

Jerojero, you should ask that question for North Korea, Burma, Cambodia and other 

unstable countries that are not very far from Thailand. Do not forget the these countries have large

military forces as well.

[sandgroper2]

The Airforce needs no inquest. Just look up TV for the cause, or rather, causes.

[ChrisY1]

1 hour ago, Srikcir said:

I have seen reports on previous Thai military aircraft crashes. When it's reported from aircraft manufacturers that mechanical problems were not the cause, the military reports conclude cause "unknown." Such a conclusion might be expected when the deceased pilots are automatically promoted to provide better benefits to pilot's survivors - military would lose face promoting a dead pilot who was the cause for a crash.

Exactly...and further, I guess one would be promoted to rear admiral upon sinking a sub then?

[farcanell]

1 hour ago, mtls2005 said:

Wonder if these have been grounded, pending the results of the investigation

 

Maybe time to hang a few extra amulets off the mirror? And a relic for the dash.

Grounded for 12 days or so... back in the air Thursday gone.... new amulets attached.

[jayboy]

4 hours ago, jerojero said:

And why does Thailand need one of the strongest air forces in the region? Meanwhile poverty reigns among majority of the Thai population.

I'm not sure your comment about poverty is correct.Thailand has made fantastic strides in reducing poverty in the last few decades and whether the lefties like it or not, the prime contribution has been the embrace of capitalism and the (relatively) open economy.I would also add the entrepreneurial talents of the Sino Thai merchant class.

 

But your comment is still relevant.Thailand doesn't need a large of expensive air force Thailand really has no need to have expensive armed forces at all nor does it need its current ridiculous system of conscription.The country has no enemies and no threats against it, either now or in the foreseeable future.It needs a small professional force, of sufficient size that it can deal with natural disasters etc, border and coast monitoring and not much else.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 hours ago, Brer Fox said:

So now the PM and his cadets are adding a fleet of combat aircraft to the toys wish list. What next after that?

Submarine

Tanks

Combat aircraft

???

???

You forgot to mention to new frigates for the Navy...

 

 

Meanwhile, the OP article here doesn't exactly say it, but the implication seems to be that the Air Force is still planning to buy another half dozen jets -- to fill out their original plan for a fleet of 18 after the original purchase of a dozen (minus one now).

 

[saminoz]

4 hours ago, jerojero said:

And why does Thailand need one of the strongest air forces in the region? Meanwhile poverty reigns among majority of the Thai population.

They need to be seen to be powerful.  Not to their neighbours, but to their own people.

IMHO, the majority of the armed forces weapons are trained inwards, not outwards.

Just furthering the plans and power retention of the despotic silly little general.

[lungnorm]

5 hours ago, jerojero said:

And why does Thailand need one of the strongest air forces in the region? Meanwhile poverty reigns among majority of the Thai population.

To compete with the Navy's new subs.

[connda]

3 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

Wonder if these have been grounded, pending the results of the investigation

 

Maybe time to hang a few extra amulets off the mirror? And a relic for the dash.

I was thinking the same thing.  The entire squadron of should be grounded until after the investigation.  Unfortunately the video was pretty poor, but the plane looks to have gone from moving in a straight flight path and then into a hard left hand bank, then into a flat spin and then drops like a rock (which is about what a jet is after losing aerodynamics).  It will be interesting to see the report.  I'm sure the Swedish manufacturer will be interested too. 

Edited January 30, 2017 by connda

[NanLaew]

5 hours ago, jerojero said:

And why does Thailand need one of the strongest air forces in the region? Meanwhile poverty reigns among majority of the Thai population.

To counterbalance their soon to be delivered submarine force.

 

lungnorm got there first

Edited January 30, 2017 by NanLaew

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, jayboy said:

I would also add the entrepreneurial talents of the Sino Thai merchant class.

Wash your mouth out with soap!!!

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, farcanell said:

Grounded for 12 days or so... back in the air Thursday gone.... new amulets attached.

I want to know how they get the gold leaf and white squiggles applied by the monk to stay on at those speeds?

[Psimbo]

4 hours ago, Brer Fox said:

So now the PM and his cadets are adding a fleet of combat aircraft to the toys wish list. What next after that?

Submarine

Tanks

Combat aircraft

???

???

Yet if they weren't replacing an aging fleet everyone here would be banging on about the number of heil liand aircraft crashes, wouldn't they?

 

I refer you to the threads about 40 year old helis crashing and all the outpouring of 'expertise' over that.  

 

ALL militaries throughout the world need to update their equipment. I can remember seeing a WW2 M3 halftrack rumbling past at U-Tapao airport 20 years ago- that would make it 74 years old now if still in service.

 

By the way they are not adding a fleet- they are augmenting a/c ALREADY in service. I do concur the subs are a joke though.

 

One thing people have missed is that they are shying away from expensive US equipment at present and looking to more practical solutions for their requirements. Ukranian vehicles would have been in service by now if not for the troubles back there.

[zorro1]

Lots of crashes attributed to poor piloting skills, especially in bad weather; many military  pilots do not have an instrument rating and/or experience

What absolute total garbage. Why would you even make that up. And that's coming from an instrument rated pilot.
You really think the skies will always be blue? Your an idiot!

[Psimbo]

1 hour ago, jayboy said:

I'm not sure your comment about poverty is correct.Thailand has made fantastic strides in reducing poverty in the last few decades and whether the lefties like it or not, the prime contribution has been the embrace of capitalism and the (relatively) open economy.I would also add the entrepreneurial talents of the Sino Thai merchant class.

 

But your comment is still relevant.Thailand doesn't need a large of expensive air force Thailand really has no need to have expensive armed forces at all nor does it need its current ridiculous system of conscription.The country has no enemies and no threats against it, either now or in the foreseeable future.It needs a small professional force, of sufficient size that it can deal with natural disasters etc, border and coast monitoring and not much else.

Prior to December 1941 the US didn't perceive a certain country as a threat and its military was in a hell of a state. That follows on into your final sentence as well.

 

The rest, as they say, is history. Some will say it is nothing to do with this situation but it is a perfect example of not being prepared.

 

China's expansionism and construction of routes throughout Asia, whilst perceived as good intent, are there for the benefit of China. One can drive from China straight through Laos to Thailand now- couldn't happen a few years back.

 

 Also look at the bitching over the South China Sea at present- you can't say that is not significant and couldn't spill over.

 

I apologise for the thread drift.

[tukkytuktuk]

It did look somewhat similar to the old CF5 "Pop" manoeuvre (low-level run in from the Initial Point (IP), thirty-degree climbing offset from the attack heading, sixty degree return back to the target with a roll at the top of the "pop" to nearly-inverted in order to look "up" to the target, level dive for the final run, fire/drop, and depart at low level), but there didn't seem to be much of a "pop" - and his turn and following track took him well away from the crowd. I'd be interested in seeing the results of the investigation - speculation is often w - a - y wrong.

And (unrelated sidetrack) the CF5 guys started much lower. I was frequently surprised that some of them did not return with twigs or moose antlers in their leading edges.

[elgordo38]

6 hours ago, jerojero said:

And why does Thailand need one of the strongest air forces in the region? Meanwhile poverty reigns among majority of the Thai population.

Yeah you just asked the $64,000,000 question which is more than likely less than the order for these planes will cost. The junta is in a military refurbishment mood right now its toys for boys that carries the day here at present. After the so called election these toys might not so readily pass muster. Thailand should be careful in seeking answers as the answer might be human error and not mechanical. Loss of face all around. Just make him an honorary air force general and leave it at that. 

[Broken Record]

The Armed Forces and the Police have one main job, to protect the ruling class from the poor masses.

 

All of the arms big buys are an opportunity for the Generals to get rich, it's their reward for being willing to turn the guns on their own people when the population  get sick of living like they do in a society where  a few people can do whatever they want cos they are wealthy and are virtually unaccountable  for any crimes committed,

 

Thai prisons were not built for the rich. 

 

Thais are brainwashed from birth to bow and crawl to people of immense wealth and privilege, they are scared of the Police who are supposed to be there to help them, but all they do is extort money from the poorest members of society and keep them firmly in their place, whilst the rich and influential get a free pass.

 

Laws are made to keep it like this, and the population can't do a thing about it. ( See above )

 

It stinks.

Edited January 30, 2017 by Broken Record

[than]

4 hours ago, Brer Fox said:

So now the PM and his cadets are adding a fleet of combat aircraft to the toys wish list. What next after that?

Submarine

Tanks

Combat aircraft

???

???

 Si vis pacem, para bellum (Végèce, Epitoma Rei Militaris) , which means if you wish peace, prepare for war.