UK government Brexit bill defeated again

[dick dasterdly]

13 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

No it isn't. It's about whether the terms of something so crucial as this, which will profoundly affect future generations as well as ourselves, should be left for the cabinet and their political party only to decide on; or be fully debated on in parliament and voted on my all members of the House of Commons, representing all constituencies.

 

Forget Heseltine, as failed wannabee and prat. This is about democracy, the UK constitution and whether anyone in the right mind would trust a government that wants to present it's decision as a fait a compli rather than a decision accepted by a broader representation.

"or be fully debated on in parliament and voted on my all members of the House of Commons, representing all constituencies"

 

Except if there's one thing the referendum made painfully clear, its that many MPs are not representative of their constituents.

[Grouse]

16 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

No it isn't. It's about whether the terms of something so crucial as this, which will profoundly affect future generations as well as ourselves, should be left for the cabinet and their political party only to decide on; or be fully debated on in parliament and voted on my all members of the House of Commons, representing all constituencies.

 

Forget Heseltine, as failed wannabee and prat. This is about democracy, the UK constitution and whether anyone in the right mind would trust a government that wants to present it's decision as a fait a compli rather than a decision accepted by a broader representation.

http://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/business-papers/lords/lords-divisions/?date=2017-Mar-07&itemId=2&session=2016-May-18

 

All the details of the various proposed amendments are here.

 

I see even the Duke of Wellington agrees the amendment!

 

 

[transam]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

http://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/business-papers/lords/lords-divisions/?date=2017-Mar-07&itemId=2&session=2016-May-18

 

All the details of the various proposed amendments are here.

 

I see even the Duke of Wellington agrees the amendment!

 

 

So what.........?

 

Do we all bow now...........?

[Grouse]

13 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

To look on the bright side, this may encourage the government to re-think their policies on the "aged" who have retired abroad .

 

Far cheaper than the "aged" returning back home .

Do you still not see that TM plans to irritate the rest of Europe to such an extent that they will wish to expel UK citizens?

 

That is why she wants to use EU citizens as a bargaining chip

 

Maybe she wants to reduce corporation tax to 10%??????

[nontabury]

3 hours ago, maingmoom said:

Not the kind of UK you want but face up to the fact that you lost the vote

 Typical hypocritical remark, from Mr arrogant,who himself was so-called educated in a Grammer school.

Edited March 8, 2017 by nontabury

[Grouse]

1 minute ago, transam said:

So what.........?

 

Do we all bow now...........?

Well you could at least put your Wellington boots on!

 

Mine are green; what color are yours?

[maingmoom]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

Clearly this is over your head

 

Everyone accepts that Brexit will go ahead. Some of us ( but not you ) want to stop the Con Party taking advantage at the expense of the UK generally.

 

Sorry you don't understand the issues; the Tories love people like you ?

What are you talking about. I do expect Brexit to take place. After all the  vote was to leave the EU.

I understood all issues and that's why I voted to leave. Of course the tories love me I've voted for them for many years.

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

 

 

[Grouse]

Just now, nontabury said:

 Typical hypocritical remark, from Mr arrogant,who himself was so-called educated in a Grammer school.

I don't quite understand that insult

 

Please can someone elucidate?

 

Where am I being a hypocrite? I thought I was being consistently arrogant and condescending!

 

I want excellent education for all and applaud the new technological training efforts

 

I do not think reverting to 11 plus and grammar schools is the way forward however.

 

Streaming is good; mixed ability classes are hopeless.

[transam]

4 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Well you could at least put your Wellington boots on!

 

Mine are green; what color are yours?

Must admit mine were all non trendy black...BUT, my attire was all........Plus.......

[maingmoom]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

"I don't know anyone who changed their opinion during the referendum."

 

Me neither

 

But plently of anecdotal evidence shows that many regret voting leave SINCE the referendum (including the whole of Cornwall)

Where on earth did you get your information from. I consider myself from Cornwall  and I and many friends and family in Cornwall don't regret either.

[Grouse]

2 minutes ago, maingmoom said:

What are you talking about. I do expect Brexit to take place. After all the  vote was to leave the EU.

I understood all issues and that's why I voted to leave. Of course the tories love me I've voted for them for many years.

 

As I say, you still don't get it

 

You don't see what the Con Party are aiming to do....

 

I spelt out my fears above.....

 

 

[Grouse]

1 minute ago, maingmoom said:

Where on earth did you get your information from. I consider myself from Cornwall  and I and many friends and family in Cornwall don't regret either.

Cornwallies (or whatever the collective noun is) received 630M Euro over the last 10 years

 

Most people in Cornwall worry that the Con party won't keep up this level of investment

 

What do you think!

 

I hope you've got plenty of tin and tungsten mines....

[maingmoom]

5 minutes ago, Grouse said:

As I say, you still don't get it

 

You don't see what the Con Party are aiming to do....

 

I spelt out my fears above.....

 

 

I think you must be talking about your opinion.

[maingmoom]

7 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Cornwallies (or whatever the collective noun is) received 630M Euro over the last 10 years

 

Most people in Cornwall worry that the Con party won't keep up this level of investment

 

What do you think!

 

I hope you've got plenty of tin and tungsten mines....

Nobody can predict what the tories may or may not do. This is pure assumption. 

 

[transam]

3 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Cornwallies (or whatever the collective noun is) received 630M Euro over the last 10 years

 

Most people in Cornwall worry that the Con party won't keep up this level of investment

 

What do you think!

 

I hope you've got plenty of tin and tungsten mines....

63 mil a year, how much does the UK pay out ever day to the EU....We ALL know the UK is paying to take care of other EU countries every day...Ordinary UK folk don't like it..They have voted so....Time to move on and do our own thing again  which we have always done in the past and for a small country has done extremely well....If you or others think the UK will implode, well I doubt that...Our diligence will come to the fore....

• 79default

[dick dasterdly]

27 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Do you still not see that TM plans to irritate the rest of Europe to such an extent that they will wish to expel UK citizens?

 

That is why she wants to use EU citizens as a bargaining chip

 

Maybe she wants to reduce corporation tax to 10%??????

Why on earth would TM plan to "irritate the rest of Europe to such an extent that they will wish to expel UK citizens"??

 

Particularly bearing in mind TM initially tried to agree that both EU citizens currently in the UK and UK citizens in the EU should be allowed to stay - but this was rejected by the EU.

 

Not to mention, the last thing the UK needs is "aged" expats returning home, with all the attendant costs!

[Grouse]

39 minutes ago, nontabury said:

 Typical hypocritical remark, from Mr arrogant,who himself was so-called educated in a Grammer school.

No, wrong

 

They want to protect the UK from the slavering Con Party who care for none but themselves

[Grouse]

9 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Why on earth would TM plan to "irritate the rest of Europe to such an extent that they will wish to expel UK citizens"??

 

Particularly bearing in mind TM initially tried to agree that both EU citizens currently in the UK and UK citizens in the EU should be allowed to stay - but this was rejected by the EU.

 

Not to mention, the last thing the UK needs is "aged" expats returning home, with all the attendant costs!

Because of their plan to create a low rent, low tax, low service off shore economy which will attempt to to undermine civilised European social democracy.

[nontabury]

21 minutes ago, maingmoom said:

Nobody can predict what the tories may or may not do. This is pure assumption. 

 

Maybe someone is trying to Divide and rule.

It's  been tried before,Then of course, we also had a conservative P.M.

 

 

 

 

[NanLaew]

5 hours ago, Grouse said:

The House of Lords are a bit like your senate (but more difficult to bribe)

The House of Lords are a bit like your Senate (but more difficult expensive to bribe)

[dunroaming]

10 hours ago, daveAustin said:

Time to abolish the Lords. A bloated, anachronistic bunch of unelected snobs that have very little connection with ordinary people and the will of ordinary people.

Well I am an ordinary person and in this instance they certainly represent my views.  May will continue on her mission  and has shown by sacking Heseltine that she is determined to not tolerate anyone's interference.  A strong leader is a good thing but even a strong leader needs the ability to listen to others and accept criticism when it is justified.  

[Enoon]

5 hours ago, maingmoom said:

Not the kind of UK you want but face up to the fact that you lost the vote

 

The "vote": no power, no Constitutional or legal authority.

 

It was just the crowd (which is now as good as 50/50) cheering before the game.

 

This is the game.

 

Ultimately, what will the crowd do when the game goes against one side or the other?

 

And how will the disappointed supporters be managed?

 

(Are the questions that the players are concerned with).

 

How to handle the "mob"?.............the perennial question for British politics.

 

 

Edited March 8, 2017 by Enoon

[7by7]

I haven't read all the posts thus far, having got through the first page it's obvious it's the same people spouting the same views as always.

 

What is also obvious is that many Brexit supporters have totally failed to comprehend what this vote in the Lords was actually about!

 

It was not an attempt to stop Brexit; despite what Heseltine may or may not have said.

 

Brexit: Government suffers second defeat in Lords

Quote

The amendment, which was carried by a majority of 98, would require the final terms of the UK's withdrawal from the EU to be put to separate votes in the Commons and the Lords.

 

Whether the Commons accepts this amendment or not, we will have to wait and see. It is the Commons, after all, who have the final say.

 

The Lords can only advise amendments, they cannot enforce them. It is up to the Commons whether or not that advice is acted upon.

[Basil B]

6 hours ago, stag4 said:

sign the petition to replace the unelected House of Lords with a publicly elected body

Why have two house then???

 

The make up of the House of Lords is people from all sections of the community including judges, former MP's, bishops and representatives of other religions, very few Lords are hereditary, they get a chance to ask the House of commons to look at a bill again.

 

I was one of the 48%, but accept the referendum result, lets let Teresa and the gang get on and negotiate the best deal possible, making them declare the negotiating strategies or even worse,  imposing conditions will only weaken their hand, so lets leave it to the "Deal or NO Deal" vote.

[7by7]

I've been watching, and enjoying, a documentary called Meet the Lords currently running on BBC2; 9pm Mondays. Two parts shown so far.

 

I don't know if you can watch the episodes so far on the BBC iPlayer outside the UK. If not, they may be on YouTube.

 

The third and final episode next Monday is entitled "Brexit and Exit." Should be interesting!

 

 

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

11 hours ago, Grouse said:

Of course, numpties won't understand and won't be able to explain what, exactly, they disagree with!

There you go again, anyone with an opposing view...

The House Of Lords has a majority of Left Wing Labour and Lib Dems appointed by Clegg, Brown and Blair. If Heseltine wants to join them he could only expect the sack.

All this posturing is just time wasting, it will end up going through the Commons in time to declare Article 50 by the end of March.

And it should signal the demise of the House Of Lords.

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

1 hour ago, Basil B said:

I was one of the 48%, but accept the referendum result, lets let Teresa and the gang get on and negotiate the best deal possible, making them declare the negotiating strategies or even worse,  imposing conditions will only weaken their hand, so lets leave it to the "Deal or NO Deal" vote.

Well said, I wish there were a few more like you.

Most Remoaners are in denial and just harp on about how it's a disaster (Project Fear is still going), it is time they grew up like yourself.

Edited March 8, 2017 by George FmplesdaCosteedback

[Enoon]

 

Is this the end of their Lordships considerations or are there more to come?

 

I hope they won't keep the Bill for as long as convention allows (60 days) as that would mean that it returns to the Commons well into April.

 

It would be awful for Ms May to have been defeated in the High Court, Supreme Court and then fail to meet her emphatically stated deadline of March.

 

 

[JAG]

http://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/business-papers/lords/lords-divisions/?date=2017-Mar-07&itemId=2&session=2016-May-18
 
All the details of the various proposed amendments are here.
 
I see even the Duke of Wellington agrees the amendment!
 
 

I suspect that the original Duke of Wellington may have had distinctive views on a "European Union", given his rather close involvement with a previous attempt.

As for the present one - so what?

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

There you go again, anyone with an opposing view...

The House Of Lords has a majority of Left Wing Labour and Lib Dems appointed by Clegg, Brown and Blair. If Heseltine wants to join them he could only expect the sack.

All this posturing is just time wasting, it will end up going through the Commons in time to declare Article 50 by the end of March.

And it should signal the demise of the House Of Lords.

As I say, you don't understand