Help me fix my fan.

[chickenslegs]

5 hours ago, JaiMaai said:

 If that doesn't work then I'm going to give up.

Never give up ... unless ...

 

Edited March 20, 2017 by chickenslegs

[Crossy]

13 hours ago, JaiMaai said:

It's not fixed yet. Changing the capacitor has improved it but it's still not turning 100% freely. I'm going to try some oil or grease on the bearings next but I didn't have the time today. If that doesn't work then I'm going to give up.

 

As noted above you should really strip it down and clean the gloop off the bearings. But before you do that a squirt of WD40 on both bearings should loosen them enough to see if it's worth pulling it apart.

 

 

[lungnorm]

Gee they cheap enough, you get what you pay for. Go buy a couple and you will have a spare. Guess the one you have is what we call a LEMON.

[impulse]

If it can't be fixed with WD40 or duct tape, bin it.

 

I spray WD40 into my bearings- liberally and let the excess mung and chogies drip out on a newspaper laid out on the floor.  That gets is back to spinning every time.  But performance is degrading slightly each time.  Eventually, I'll have to take it apart and clean the bearings and maybe even take it to Chinatown and get the windings redone.  Hopefully, I'll be repatriating by then.

 

And like the OP, I'd be better off dollar/time wise to just buy a new one.  I'm in it for the education and the satisfaction.  Getting ready for the Zombie Apocalypse when that kind of knowledge and skill will be the difference. 

[bazza73]

No amount of lubricant application will fix worn bearings. IMHO the fan is stuffed.

[ignis]

Depends what size the Fan is....  Bin it and buy new is rather silly unless it is a small fan..  most repair shops will fit a new motor for 200 baht. [if it is a motor problem]  

Edit: 200 baht spent for a new motor on a Fan that cost 2,500 baht, in my thinking is better than binning it

 

Buy cheap or a named brand ?  no idea, but can say  in the house have 14 fans, many different makes....  Best one bought in year 2000 is Imflex never had any problems and used every day, likewise Kashiwa also never a problem....  Panasonic 18" bought in 2004 has had 3 new motors..  Guess the worst is Hatari, have a 18 + a 22 and a 25"  all are very noisy and the 25" has been replaced 3 times when it was under warentee, it still runs and has been repaired twice since, but is the same problem [runs very very hot + all settings are the same speed] been sat in a spare room for last couple of years.

 

The newest and almost silent running one is Sharp........  always use Singer oil for many years on them  [2 bottles = 20 baht @ 20 baht shop] have lots of dogs so need to clean and oil the fans often

Edited March 21, 2017 by ignis

[xylophone]

Okay, by a process of elimination................

 

If you have cleaned out the motor from all its dust and gunge, changed the capacitor (perhaps twice because you can occasionally buy a dud one, even new), made sure that the bearings which are only phosphor bronze anyway are not excessively worn or tight and a spray of WD-40 or some thin oil will help here, and ensured that the fan/motor is free spinning, then the next port of call is checking all of the soldered connections on the rotary switch to make sure they are not loose or burning up.

 

If you've done all of that, then the windings are the next to be checked and I have repaired a few of these fans for friends and a couple have suffered from poor connections where the leads from the rotary switch actually connect to the windings. This is not easy because where they are soldered they are covered by an off-white insulating sleeve so this needs to be slid back or even cut to check whether the connection is intact and a couple of times I found that isn't the case.

 

The problem here is that the windings are covered/painted in an insulating varnish, so this has to be scraped off a little to enable a new soldered joint to be effective. Once the soldered joint has been done then the insulating sleeve needs to be slid back on, or you can even use some new insulating tape but it is a fiddly job.

 

If all of this has been done and it still doesn't work, then I think you are looking at a new fan and as others have said it's not an expensive replacement, and you will have done all that you possibly can and possibly learnt something along the way, so the end result is a win-win in a way!

[bazza73]

4 hours ago, ignis said:

 

The newest and almost silent running one is Sharp........  always use Singer oil for many years on them  [2 bottles = 20 baht @ 20 baht shop] have lots of dogs so need to clean and oil the fans often

How does having lots of dogs affect cleaning and oiling of the fans?

[Crossy]

1 minute ago, bazza73 said:

How does having lots of dogs affect cleaning and oiling of the fans?

 

Dog hair!

[lungnorm]

3 minutes ago, bazza73 said:

How does having lots of dogs affect cleaning and oiling of the fans?

DOG HAIR !!!!

[johng]

1 minute ago, Crossy said:

Dog hair!

I find  "hair of the dog"  helps  lubricate certain  parts too.

[bazza73]

2 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

Dog hair!

So the dogs are inside the house with the fans? Who is running the household, the dogs or the humans?

[Crossy]

Actually, whilst we have two small, short-haired dogs we don't have a problem with dog hairs in the fans.

 

We still have to clean them every month just to get rid of the black yuk that they pull out of the air

 

Our dogs do not enter the house apart from the kitchen and then only when their food is being prepared.

[wayned]

17 hours ago, bazza73 said:

So the dogs are inside the house with the fans? Who is running the household, the dogs or the humans?

My 8 dogs let me live in their house and even sleep in their bed as long as I feed them, keep the house relatively clean and pay the bills.  Dogs don't have sweat glands like humans so they don't really give a crap about fans but air conditioning is another story!

[themerg]

Stop being cheap. BUY a new fan. Tesco-Lotus has a 1,900 baht for stand up 18-inch industrial Hatari fan.

[steven100]

stop being a cheap charlie .... and buy a new one  $25-30 

[JaiMaai]

http://vid.me/prMD

A little slow to start but it will be useful as a spare.

And for those of you that made such a big deal of it - yes we will be buying a nice, shiny, new one when we do the shop at the weekend.

[emoji6]

[JaiMaai]

Thanks to all who chipped in with help.

[ignis]

17 hours ago, JaiMaai said:

http://vid.me/prMD

A little slow to start but it will be useful as a spare.

And for those of you that made such a big deal of it - yes we will be buying a nice, shiny, new one when we do the shop at the weekend.

If your buying a new one at the Supermarket then most stores you can hear them running..  if your video is anything to go by, then proves my point Hatari are very noisy 

[kangaloowest]

On 3/19/2017 at 0:15 AM, JaiMaai said:

Ok. I'll try that in the morning. Thanks.

Having a beer watching the football just now

 

Your windings have a partial short

In other words your the electrical motor of your fan is on the way out 

[CGW]

On 3/21/2017 at 7:31 AM, impulse said:

I spray WD40 into my bearings- liberally and let the excess mung and chogies drip out on a newspaper laid out on the floor.  That gets is back to spinning every time.  But performance is degrading slightly each time.  Eventually, I'll have to take it apart and clean the bearings and maybe even take it to Chinatown and get the windings redone.  Hopefully, I'll be repatriating by then.

 

Sure it would help if you actually lubricated the bearings! WD40 is a solvent or rust destroyer! slowly but surely you will flush any oil or grease out of the bearings and they will be running very dry, as WD attracts rust bearings should be starting to make a nice squeaky sound by now!

[impulse]

2 hours ago, CGW said:

Sure it would help if you actually lubricated the bearings! WD40 is a solvent or rust destroyer! slowly but surely you will flush any oil or grease out of the bearings and they will be running very dry, as WD attracts rust bearings should be starting to make a nice squeaky sound by now!

 

I've got a 5 year old Hatari that would disagree with you.  I'd probably get 10 years out of it if I added grease or oil to the sintered bushings, but then the bushings would probably outlast the windings.  And by that time, the power cord will be brittle from age.  No use overdoing it.

 

Besides, my biggest problem isn't lack of lubrication.  It's the lint that contaminates the exposed lube.

 

I'm operating on the theory that the WD pulls a little more of the grease to the surface of the impregnated bushings.  If I'm wrong, so be it.  But so far, so good.

 

BTW, I absolutely agree on ball bearings.  For my fishing reels, I use the WD just to clean the bearings and sewing machine oil to lubricate the high speed bearings and petrolatum on the low speed ones.

[CGW]

1 hour ago, impulse said:

 

I've got a 5 year old Hatari that would disagree with you.  I'd probably get 10 years out of it if I added grease or oil to the sintered bushings, but then the bushings would probably outlast the windings.  And by that time, the power cord will be brittle from age.  No use overdoing it.

If it works for you! can't knock it, there are always exceptions, surprised the bearing is not dry by now, not usual to put a lot of grease in em. After five years you have little to complain about, I usually hand them onto her family after a few years as they start rattling too much for me!

WD now make a silicone lubricant marketed here, ideal for gate rollers and the like. http://wd40thailand.com/wd-40-specialist-silicone-lubricant-size-360-ml

[kangaloowest]

Why is everyone still going on about bearing and bushes that need lubing ???
The problem is that the electrical motor is partially shorting out which explains why the fan is turning slowly, and the only two ways of fixing it is
:1 Replace the electrical motor - may as well buy a new Fan !!
:2 Have the electrical motor rewound - Buy a new Fan !!

[Crossy]

18 hours ago, kangaloowest said:

Why is everyone still going on about bearing and bushes that need lubing ???
The problem is that the electrical motor is partially shorting out which explains why the fan is turning slowly, and the only two ways of fixing it is
:1 Replace the electrical motor - may as well buy a new Fan !!
:2 Have the electrical motor rewound - Buy a new Fan !!

 

How have you diagnosed this from the information given?

 

A shorted turn would lead to excessive heat in the windings and the thermal fuse opening, it hasn't.

 

By far the most common issues with these fans are dried up bearings and failed capacitors. Fried motors are common enough that there a people re-winding them, but I would put that 3rd in the list.

[kangaloowest]

On 3/19/2017 at 7:46 PM, JaiMaai said:

 

I have a Hatari fan that stopped working. I'm sure it's a relatively simple fix but I'm currently stuck.

 

1. There is no obvious evidence of the windings burning out.

2. The thermal fuse has not blown.

3. The fan turns freely when turned by hand so I don't think it needs oiled but maybe it does.

4. The fan would turn VERY slowly if started by hand.

 

Based on these factors I changed the capacitor (1.8 microfarad 400 V) but the fan still has a problem. It still won't work properly. If you give the fan a hand start then it will run, a lot faster than before I changed the cap, but it's not fixed.

 

Any ideas. I want to fix this because I want to learn about how motors work better. It's been a long time since I studied the theory at Uni and I want to get some practice in.....

 

If I have to buy a new one eventually then so be it but fixing myself is better just so I know I did it.

 

 

 

On 3/19/2017 at 8:02 PM, JaiMaai said:

There is a slight resistance to turning the rotor by hand but it's by no means stiff so I'm guessing that's normal? Changing the capacitor made a big improvement but it's still not right.

 

 

On 3/20/2017 at 4:08 PM, JaiMaai said:

It's not fixed yet. Changing the capacitor has improved it but it's still not turning 100% freely. I'm going to try some oil or grease on the bearings next but I didn't have the time today. If that doesn't work then I'm going to give up.

 

 

On 3/20/2017 at 6:03 PM, JaiMaai said:

Won't start on any speed without a flick with the hand. After that the speed changes in line with the low, medium and high speeds.

 

 

On 3/20/2017 at 7:58 PM, JaiMaai said:

The fan will NOT run backwards which suggests the cap is ok. (I think?)

 

On 3/22/2017 at 1:09 PM, JaiMaai said:

http://vid.me/prMD

A little slow to start but it will be useful as a spare.

And for those of you that made such a big deal of it - yes we will be buying a nice, shiny, new one when we do the shop at the weekend.

 

 

On 3/22/2017 at 1:13 PM, JaiMaai said:

Thanks to all who chipped in with help.

 

3 hours ago, Crossy said:

 

How have you diagnosed this from the information given?

 

A shorted turn would lead to excessive heat in the windings and the thermal fuse opening, it hasn't.

 

By far the most common issues with these fans are dried up bearings and failed capacitors. Fried motors are common enough that there a people re-winding them, but I would put that 3rd in the list.

 

When an electrical motor, such as a fan, has a slow start or has a difficult time getting up to speed when first turned on, it can generally be diagnosed as the capacitor, dry bushes/bearings, or a partial short.

Of course, check the easiest things first such as dry bushes/bearings, the opening of the thermal fuse, and while you are at it, run a multi-meter across the windings to see if there is any resistance.
There should be no resistance.
 

A full short would lead to the protective coating on the windings smelling burnt and lead to the thermal fuse being forced open, but from what the Op has said there is no evidence of that,

 

With a partial short, it will in some cases make the motor run a few degrees hotter, but does not make the motor run excessively hot, therefore not affecting the thermal fuse.

A partial short will allow enough electricity to pass through the system/windings to operate the electrical motor, but not enough to allow the motor to run at full capacity.

The loss of electricity from the partial short creates a drag on the operation of the electrical system, and in turn the electrical motor.

 

[bazza73]

On 3/22/2017 at 6:18 AM, wayned said:

My 8 dogs let me live in their house and even sleep in their bed as long as I feed them, keep the house relatively clean and pay the bills.  Dogs don't have sweat glands like humans so they don't really give a crap about fans but air conditioning is another story!

EIGHT dogs? I've heard of dog lovers, but isn't that a tad extreme?

 

I'm wondering how 8 dogs compares with one warm and willing Thai GF. Don't answer if you think it may incriminate you.

[xylophone]

6 minutes ago, kangaloowest said:

With a partial short, it will in some cases make the motor run a few degrees hotter, but does not make the motor run excessively hot, therefore not affecting the thermal fuse.

A partial short will allow enough electricity to pass through the system/windings to operate the electrical motor, but not enough to allow the motor to run at full capacity.

True enough and I've had this happen on some of these fan motors (because I take them apart from time to time) where the insulation between the individual wire loops (windings) has broken down, thereby diminishing the strength of the field generated by the windings.

 

I'm not sure that these cheap fans actually have a thermal fuse in them anyway, certainly not the ones I've seen at the cheap end, and as for the bearings, well the majority of the ones I've seen are phosphor bronze and require very little in the way of lubrication, perhaps a little mineral oil or something from time to time.

 

Anyway as has been already decided, a new one is to be purchased!!

[wayned]

15 hours ago, bazza73 said:

EIGHT dogs? I've heard of dog lovers, but isn't that a tad extreme?

 

I'm wondering how 8 dogs compares with one warm and willing Thai GF. Don't answer if you think it may incriminate you.

8 dogs is the lowest animal count that I have  had in years.  I used to raise Golden Retrievers, all born and raised in the house, and at one time had 24dogs, 50 pigs (not raised in the house) and a number of stray wild cats.

 

My wife was part of it all and actually started the menagerie by adopting a stray when we lived in Samui.The count increased over the years and then started to decline after I stopped raising the Goldens.  I was down to eleven when my wife died two years ago after 15.5 years of marriage and now have only 8.  The oldest is 12 and the youngest, dumped in the back of my pickup when I was at the market, is just  over 1 year.

 

Now that I am 72 and have had both do9gs and a Thai wife and know all that there is to know about having both, if the opportunity arrived today to have another wife or another dog, I would happily have 9 dogs tomorrow..  Not that the wife was bad but at 72 I'm not sure that I could do it all over again, Thai or any other nationality!!!

[Randell]

So if a  running fan pops and slight ozone smell and stops turning but still can turn free it's likely to be a thermal fuse I am getting this right. And if so would a retired carpenter who is more used to a hammer than a screwdriver be able to fix it? Or do I need to find a shop to do so or do I need to replace it. I would rather fix than replace as it  ran quiet before the dreaded pop. 

Any and all suggestions appreciated

Randell