Travel Insurance as Health Insurance

[Kenerick]

Originally posted elsewhere but thought I would start a new thread.

I am planning on retiring to Chiang Mai on age pension + super in near future. I will obtain retirement visa with multi entry here in Oz before the move.

My idea to cover my medical + accident insurance is simply by purchasing a return ticket on credit card entitling me to free travel insurance for 6 months . Then all being well after six months, return to Oz, sponge off friends or the kids for a month(s), stock up on usual supplements etc, have a check up and few tests if needed with my GP (under free Medicare) and then return for another six months. There are many other benefits with this insurance; such as cover while travelling to other countries within that six months and repatriation in the event of something nasty happening. Also covered is flying a relative here if you are hospitalised for any length of time.

This is good up to age 75yrs when the free insurance is no longer available, obviously then it’s a different ball park and other options would have to be considered.

I wonder if anyone else has used this method to cover their health insurance needs?  

[music065]

Originally posted elsewhere but thought I would start a new thread.

I am planning on retiring to Chiang Mai on age pension + super in near future. I will obtain retirement visa with multi entry here in Oz before the move.

My idea to cover my medical + accident insurance is simply by purchasing a return ticket on credit card entitling me to free travel insurance for 6 months . Then all being well after six months, return to Oz, sponge off friends or the kids for a month(s), stock up on usual supplements etc, have a check up and few tests if needed with my GP (under free Medicare) and then return for another six months. There are many other benefits with this insurance; such as cover while travelling to other countries within that six months and repatriation in the event of something nasty happening. Also covered is flying a relative here if you are hospitalised for any length of time.

This is good up to age 75yrs when the free insurance is no longer available, obviously then it’s a different ball park and other options would have to be considered.

I wonder if anyone else has used this method to cover their health insurance needs?  

Kenerick,

Yes I'm also interested if anyone has successfully tried this method.


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[helloagain]

S

Edited June 3, 2017 by helloagain
want post deleted

[elgenon]

Sounds good to me. Taking advantage of what's offered. What carrier gives you free Traveler's Insurance? Don't think EVA (my carrier) does.

[biggles45]

I did this for about ten years using my credit card free insurance but fortunately I never had to make a claim. I decided to extend my stays to 8 months and changed to paid travel insurance about 5 years ago. The premiums are going up as I am 71 now bustill around $A500 for 8 months. I have never had to claim, for which I am thankful. 

[jamie2009]

Travel Insurance companies in the Uk insist you have been Resident in your home country for 6 months so if you return for only 1 month they won't renew a policy or cover you if you have an Annual Policy.

[AaronC76]

Double/triple check the policy wording for all limitations and exclusions is my advice. I know it's a tedious task but there's no point in having an insurance policy that won't pay out when you need it too!

[charliebadenhop]

From what I know...

If you have a claim, they will check your passport and see where you have been.

 

You risk the chance of them telling you that you were not "traveling"....

 

They very much do not want to pay out for people using the policy as you would like to.

 

And if you did this for a couple or three years in a row....

 

Well, I can't predict, but they might not cover your claim.

[sloperating]

I recall ANZ card holders (maybe Platinum, not sure) were similarly covered but, if memory serves me correctly, you needed to have purchased a return ticket using the card.

 

The earlier advice to read the small print is the best advice. If you are still in doubt, ask the insurer - a written confirmation that you're covered would be compelling - please keep us posted.

 

 

[Swiss1960]

One more advice: After 75, you might just be out of options, as no health insurer likes old people.

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[Jonmarleesco]

27 minutes ago, Swiss1960 said:

One more advice: After 75, you might just be out of options, as no health insurer likes old people.

Sent from my HTC 10 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Oh, most are happy with older people  - just so long as they're not hoping to enter the system from new at 75.

[bazza73]

OP, you are proposing to do almost exactly what I do. Except I don't do travel insurance. My experience is travel insurers will almost always try to weasel out of claims against them. My preferred option is to have 500,000 baht in an account earmarked for medical emergencies. Health insurance here is prohibitively expensive once you hit 70. Forget it if you have pre-existing conditions. I have private health insurance back in Australia.

A word of advice with the Age Pension component. Don't get married in Thailand. Don't buy property here, rent. Otherwise you may be shocked at how much less the age pension becomes when Centrelink finds out.

[MaiChai]

Good advice from bazza73.

 

The whole issue of what to do for retirement is a minefield. Retiring to Thailand and giving up links to your home country is a bad idea, on the basis you dont have full citizen rights in Thailand. Also what happens when you get really old and loose you facilities so to speak? Your young Thai wife going to care for when you get to this state? Personally i would keep my house in the UK and spend the uk winter in Thailand and return for the UK spring/summer/autumn. Then you get the best of both worlds and maintain your uk citizenship and the nanny state can take care of you when you loose your marbles or get too decrepit.

[4MyEgo]

I retired here in November 2015 and looked into what you are looking into what you are wanting to do, the bad news is, it won't work, its travel insurance, and your not really travelling.

 

What you don't want is what Bazza73 said, the insurer trying to weasel out of claims. His advise is solid, self insure, I am 56 and have a pre-existing condition (one stent from back in 2008), no big deal healthy as can be, but I am not going to fork out 70,000 baht a year and not have my pre-existing condition not covered, fark that, so if and when the time comes, I will pay for whatever I have.

 

Its a numbers game, i.e. if you have a clear run for 10 years, well that 700,000 plus baht saved for the rainy day.

 

I went back to Oz last month after being away for 18 straight months, saw my GP, had a blood test done, got my prescriptions, got them at the discounted rate and enough to last me for 18 months, saw my Cardiologist, Urologist, and Dermatologist who also scraped off a skin cancer off of my right cheek and was reimbursed the usual under Medicare, so it still works, however after 5 years of no claims, its gone.

 

As for the skin cancer, I was later emailed by my GP here when I returned t Thailand, he referred me to the Dermatologist and got the Pathologists report, and said in the email that the Dermatologist didn't get it all and I had to see a Plastic Surgeon here in Thailand to have the tumour removed, and with a bit of help from others here on TVF one was found and removed it, cost was 6,000 baht all up, so either take out insurance if you have no pre-existing which would be the wisest thing to do, or self insure as a lot do here.

 

Good luck and don't forget, your still covered under Medicare, but you have to get back to Oz before 5 years and claim, that is until they link up with Border Control and wipe us all off as foreign residents, i.e. those of us who stay here for more than 183 days a year.

Edited June 3, 2017 by 4MyEgo

[owenm]

The free travel insurance offered by banks for return air travel when paying the airfares using a gold or platinum visa/mastercard does offer some basic insurance, however it is underwritten by a third party insurance company. One major criteria is that you are an Australian resident. With your residential status now being on an OA 12mth extension due to retirement in Thailand, you may come unstuck on a future claim, as the insurers may want to sight your passport to see your travel itinerary, and that's where they'll see your Thai retirement visa. Then game all over.. I'd suggest reading all the fine print on their insurance T&C.. I've been living in Thailand on METV for past 2 yrs, staying for up to 8-9 mths at a time (can do with the 6mth visa quite easily), and returning to Oz then for another METV with a 2 mth break to see family and friends, medical appointments and get scripts for medications. Then I purchase a travel insurance policy, normally through Nomad, 9 mths for around $750 a year, as an Oz resident.  

[mrfaroukh]

9 hours ago, music065 said:

 

Kenerick,

Yes I'm also interested if anyone has successfully tried this method.


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I am doing similar but not on free credit card insurance. I buy 6 months travel insurance good for 500 000 US dollar at very nominal rate and in case I want to stay longer I just call my insurance and tell them I am in good health and want to extend my insurance. It worked for me till now. But your case is even better as you get free insurance on your credit card.

[music065]

3 hours ago, mrfaroukh said:

I am doing similar but not on free credit card insurance. I buy 6 months travel insurance good for 500 000 US dollar at very nominal rate and in case I want to stay longer I just call my insurance and tell them I am in good health and want to extend my insurance. It worked for me till now. But your case is even better as you get free insurance on your credit card.

 

This sounds great mrfaroukh. Would you mind sharing which company you use? 

 

I wonder what would happen in a case where at 5 months in one gets sick with a long term expensive case such as cancer where you might need another 4 months or more treatment? Not sure if one would be covered there or could renew to cover it? So many scenarios to consider, perhaps not good to overthink it. But still, we do hear of so many medical horror stories here on TV with so many variables. 

[gk10002000]

10 hours ago, AaronC76 said:

Double/triple check the policy wording for all limitations and exclusions is my advice. I know it's a tedious task but there's no point in having an insurance policy that won't pay out when you need it too!

I checked deeply into my credit card travel insurance policies, and they didn't do anything that would be useful for chronic or injuries unrelated to travel.  They were not health insurance policies.  And none of them would qualify for being exempt from the ACA if you were a USA citizen.  Being out of the country for one year could, but not for 6 months. 

 

In addition having bought several travel insurance policies, everyone I bought, had language about multiple policies, your primary medical plan, etc.  So while you may get some sort of coverage with travel insurance, overlapping coverage I think would be a problem. Now having said that, I suppose it is possible for you to keep getting or trying to get travel medical insurance from different companies?  I don't know what would prevent that, except some really do expect you to have some sort of permanent coverage back in your home.

[Kenerick]

9 hours ago, bazza73 said:

OP, you are proposing to do almost exactly what I do. Except I don't do travel insurance. My experience is travel insurers will almost always try to weasel out of claims against them. My preferred option is to have 500,000 baht in an account earmarked for medical emergencies. Health insurance here is prohibitively expensive once you hit 70. Forget it if you have pre-existing conditions. I have private health insurance back in Australia.

A word of advice with the Age Pension component. Don't get married in Thailand. Don't buy property here, rent. Otherwise you may be shocked at how much less the age pension becomes when Centrelink finds out.

Thanks for advice - I do plan to have some set aside "just in case" and definitely NO plans to get married

 

Can I ask you for more info on the age pension reducing if you buy property ?

I can't see anything about that on the Human Services web site regarding moving overseas on the age pension

[Kenerick]

8 hours ago, owenm said:

The free travel insurance offered by banks for return air travel when paying the airfares using a gold or platinum visa/mastercard does offer some basic insurance, however it is underwritten by a third party insurance company. One major criteria is that you are an Australian resident. With your residential status now being on an OA 12mth extension due to retirement in Thailand, you may come unstuck on a future claim, as the insurers may want to sight your passport to see your travel itinerary, and that's where they'll see your Thai retirement visa. Then game all over.. I'd suggest reading all the fine print on their insurance T&C.. I've been living in Thailand on METV for past 2 yrs, staying for up to 8-9 mths at a time (can do with the 6mth visa quite easily), and returning to Oz then for another METV with a 2 mth break to see family and friends, medical appointments and get scripts for medications. Then I purchase a travel insurance policy, normally through Nomad, 9 mths for around $750 a year, as an Oz resident.  

 

Yes that's an extremely valid point about the retirement visa and something I didn't think about  

I have lightly read a copy of the T&C  but I think the best course is to find out directly from the underwriters if would be covered

 

Regarding Nomad - are there any problems with the fact you are technically "not travelling"

 

 

 

[bazza73]

1 hour ago, Kenerick said:

Thanks for advice - I do plan to have some set aside "just in case" and definitely NO plans to get married

 

Can I ask you for more info on the age pension reducing if you buy property ?

I can't see anything about that on the Human Services web site regarding moving overseas on the age pension

I am on a part pension plus income from investments. I am classed as a single non-homeowner.

If I got married in Thailand, I would be classed as a couple. My part pension would be reduced by about 20%. My Thai wife, not being an Australian, would get nothing.

If I buy anything - even a condo for $60,000 - I would be classed as a homeowner by Centrelink. My part pension would decrease by $400 a fortnight.

Here's the link for you to plug in your own finances:  http://yourpension.com.au/APCalc/index.html

It's very important to leave 80 -90% of your assets in Australia. Don't get sucked into paying more here than you can afford to lose.

I didn't plan to have any attachments here either. You'll find out for yourself how seductive Thai women can be.

 

[Kenerick]

1 hour ago, bazza73 said:

I am on a part pension plus income from investments. I am classed as a single non-homeowner.

If I got married in Thailand, I would be classed as a couple. My part pension would be reduced by about 20%. My Thai wife, not being an Australian, would get nothing.

If I buy anything - even a condo for $60,000 - I would be classed as a homeowner by Centrelink. My part pension would decrease by $400 a fortnight.

Here's the link for you to plug in your own finances:  http://yourpension.com.au/APCalc/index.html

It's very important to leave 80 -90% of your assets in Australia. Don't get sucked into paying more here than you can afford to lose.

I didn't plan to have any attachments here either. You'll find out for yourself how seductive Thai women can be.

 

Hey Bazza

 

I have a home here and have extra super income arranged so that I am on the maximum pension rate here in Oz and was thinking of buying something in Chiang Mai but will have to think more about that.

I can rent out my unit here so that it's just slightly cash positive for tax purposes and therefore still retain maximum pension (obviously this will reduce when move o/s as you lose some of the supplements)

 

As for those beautiful and seductive Thai women - yes I have been there and done that after many trips over the years and while my fingers haven't been burnt they have been slightly tinged if you know what I mean! I will have to keep my eyes to the ground

 

 

[bazza73]

30 minutes ago, Kenerick said:

Hey Bazza

 

I have a home here and have extra super income arranged so that I am on the maximum pension rate here in Oz and was thinking of buying something in Chiang Mai but will have to think more about that.

I can rent out my unit here so that it's just slightly cash positive for tax purposes and therefore still retain maximum pension (obviously this will reduce when move o/s as you lose some of the supplements)

 

As for those beautiful and seductive Thai women - yes I have been there and done that after many trips over the years and while my fingers haven't been burnt they have been slightly tinged if you know what I mean! I will have to keep my eyes to the ground

 

 

If you buy here, one of the residences will be treated as an investment and added to the Centrelink assets. The best advice you can get is from a Centrelink Financial Services Officer, provided you ask the right questions. You do lose about $40 -$50 per fortnight after six weeks off the supplements, but you get them back as soon as you return to Australia.

Take care and good luck in Chiang Mai. I like it here too.

[bbi1]

15 hours ago, Swiss1960 said:

One more advice: After 75, you might just be out of options, as no health insurer likes old people.

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Can you sue the insurance company for age discrimination in Oz? If employers aren't allowed age discrimination, why are insurance companies? http://www.dailynews.com/general-news/20140227/66-year-old-man-awarded-26-million-in-age-discrimination-lawsuit-against-staples

Edited June 4, 2017 by bbi1

[bbi1]

4 hours ago, Kenerick said:

 

Yes that's an extremely valid point about the retirement visa and something I didn't think about  

I have lightly read a copy of the T&C  but I think the best course is to find out directly from the underwriters if would be covered

 

Regarding Nomad - are there any problems with the fact you are technically "not travelling"

 

 

 

Could you not be travelling all around Thailand or even all around BKK? :)

[Kenerick]

20 hours ago, music065 said:

 

 

Kenerick,

Yes I'm also interested if anyone has successfully tried this method.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

Hi Music,

 

I will let you know if I find out more regarding free insurance using credit card.

 

Other options are:

Nomad (but they will not insure 70yrs+)

1Cover (Oz resident) 70 yrs old 6 months $998 and 12 months $1266 - which I reckon is quite reasonable

 

Edited June 4, 2017 by Kenerick
couldnt attach document

[music065]

Kenerick, great - thank you. 1Cover sounds good. I wonder if they provide decent coverage? I will look into that co

[Sheryl]

It is important to understand what travel insurance covers and how it works.

 

It does not cover all needed medical treatment during the period of travel.

 

It covers only urgent treatment that cannot wait, and in that case the insurance company may either pay for you to return to your home country for treatment of pay for you to get it on the country where you are at the time or other nearby country -- depending on availability of care and what is least expensive.  Hence the requirement that anyone owth a travel policy have valid insurance in their home country - so they can go back there if and as needed.

 

It will not cover cataract surgery, knee/hip replacements and a score of other necessary but non-emergent procedures - the company would expect you to wait until you return home for that.

 

And if you get in a major accident requiring multiple surgeries and months of rehab etc.  it might well pay only for initial stabilization and then transport back home.

 

Certainly, if you developed cancer requiring surgery, chemo, and the like, they would not pay for you to have that done abroad. They'd expect you to return home for it. At most they might pay something for unexpectedly early return airfare.

 

This is why travel insurance costs so much less than regular health insurance.

 

If you are confident you will remain eligible under the national health system at home and will have the wherewithal to return home -- possibly for very extended periods of time or even permanently - for medical care then yes, a travel policy may suffice.

 

But it in no way meets the needs of people permanently settled in Thailand.

 

 

 

 

[bazza73]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

It is important to understand what travel insurance covers and how it works.

 

It does not cover all needed medical treatment during the period of travel.

 

It covers only urgent treatment that cannot wait, and in that case the insurance company may either pay for you to return to your home country for treatment of pay for you to get it on the country where you are at the time or other nearby country -- depending on availability of care and what is least expensive.  Hence the requirement that anyone owth a travel policy have valid insurance in their home country - so they can go back there if and as needed.

 

It will not cover cataract surgery, knee/hip replacements and a score of other necessary but non-emergent procedures - the company would expect you to wait until you return home for that.

 

And if you get in a major accident requiring multiple surgeries and months of rehab etc.  it might well pay only for initial stabilization and then transport back home.

 

Certainly, if you developed cancer requiring surgery, chemo, and the like, they would not pay for you to have that done abroad. They'd expect you to return home for it. At most they might pay something for unexpectedly early return airfare.

 

This is why travel insurance costs so much less than regular health insurance.

 

If you are confident you will remain eligible under the national health system at home and will have the wherewithal to return home -- possibly for very extended periods of time or even permanently - for medical care then yes, a travel policy may suffice.

 

But it in no way meets the needs of people permanently settled in Thailand.

 

 

 

 

Excellent post - thank you.

[zaZa9]

17 hours ago, Kenerick said:

 

Yes that's an extremely valid point about the retirement visa and something I didn't think about  

I have lightly read a copy of the T&C  but I think the best course is to find out directly from the underwriters if would be covered

 

Regarding Nomad - are there any problems with the fact you are technically "not travelling"

 

 

 

I retired to Phuket 9 years ago , aged 50.

I took out Nomads World travel insurance because this was the only company that didnt 'deem' me as  not really travelling if I spent more than 90 days in any one country. I did travel around a bit , so at around $800 a year it was good value.

 

3 years back I had a mini-stroke and rushed to Bumrungrad Hospital in Bkk.

I stayed there 5 days.

Nomads called me numerous times , but paid the 230,000 baht bill.

 

They never once asked to see my visa. And I was quite prepared to state that I was constantly travelling around WITHIN Thailand anyway. ( I had read the fine print ).

So the visa was a non-issue.

 

They were keen to repatriate  me  home once I got a 'Fit to fly' document. They did point out that any length left on my policy finished on arrival to Aus - Medicare could take over.

 

After this I determined I would take out my own health insurance - mainly for the reason that I read that many an Insurance Co didnt want to sign up older members.

BUPA had a rule wherein if you signed up before age 60 , they would insure you for life.

I took their ''Saphire" package at 30,000  baht a year  . I worked out they would have paid out about 60% of what I had paid for the stroke. They would not cover another stroke but.

However , I recalled vividly the staff at Bumrungrad insisting my admittance depended on me having Insurance , and I was not going to ever be in that situation and have to try to answer , "No but Ive saved up 700,000 but !"

I'd rather have that Health Insurance in my pocket ... it will 'speak' when I probably wont be capable of it.

 

Having plenty of money saved for your health is a good idea.

But my stroke showed me that one cant always access it when very ill , nor even be allowed board a plane to access a national health plan back home.