Chinese ‘zero-dollar’ tour hotel shut down

[Rimmer]

Chinese ‘zero-dollar’ tour hotel shut down

PATTAYA:--Special Branch police shut down a Pattaya-area hotel allegedly owned by an illegal Chinese immigrant as part of an operation to seize 43 of his properties around the country.

 

Pol. Maj. Gen. Surachet Hakpal led a task force of 50 officers to seize the Longma Pattaya Hotel on Soi Jomtien Holiday in Sattahip’s Najomtien Sub-district July 18. Purported owner Anuchit Maorungroj was not present and is now a fugitive.

 

Surachet claimed Anuchit faked identification documents to show he was a Thai national but is, in fact, Chinese and in the country illegally. He opened Thai Tong Yi Co. and Muang Thai International Travel Group to run outlawed “zero-baht” tours that used both his own hotels and unlicensed Chinese guides.

 

Several guides were arrested in the operation.

 

Longma, police said, was not licensed, did not meet building standards for hotels and the building itself was illegally extended.

 

Anuchit’s attorney, Piya Boonchu said July 19 that the Special Branch completely botched the operation and that he, not Anuchit, has been the owner of the Longma hotel for more than a month

 

He said the hotel operated under a legal holding company and has all the proper documentation, which he planned to furnish to authorities.

 

Read more: http://www.pattayamail.com/news/chinese-zero-dollar-tour-hotel-shut-181757

 

-- © Copyright Pattaya Mail 2017-07-28

[harada]

[AhFarangJa]

2 hours ago, Rimmer said:

He said the hotel operated under a legal holding company and has all the proper documentation, which he planned to furnish to authorities.

Which will be delivered in one of these........

[balo]

Send him back to China. He can also bring with him all the zero- dollar tourists .  

[Justgrazing]

44 minutes ago, AhFarangJa said:

Which will be delivered in one of these........

Are they big enough ..

[Cloggie]

>>> police said, hotel was not licensed, did not meet building standards for hotels and the building itself was illegally extended.

 

That's why everybody though he was Thai!

 

 

[williamgeorgeallen]

i owned the shop house beside this place for 5 years. for 4 of those years it was under renovation including buying the next 4 shop houses to make it a combined 10 shop houses.  seemed money was just flowing into the place.  it never seemed to have many customers when it opened.  doubt it was even covering its running costs. what a mess.

[yellowboat]

3 hours ago, Rimmer said:

He said the hotel operated under a legal holding company and has all the proper documentation, which he planned to furnish to authorities.

Wonder if he actually broke the law by owning the company through a holding company.  He being in the country illegally is a different matter.  The law today is pretty much what the government says it is, A44 and all its mysticism.  The magic wand.

 

Perhaps TAT covertly, without prior announcement, fanfare or a big luncheon, should have investigated the zero dollar marketing and sales in China network in China.  Instead of just disrupting it, see how it worked and learn something.  Would have been a nice marketing coup for the junta. 

[tracker1]

The Chinese are just to smart for the Thais and a lot of other countries too so don't feel to bad about it Thailand !

[Justgrazing]

Looks a bit of a dive doesn't it .. can't for the life of me imagine why  " Quality " Chinese tourists would want to stay there .. 

[Justgrazing]

And all those electrical cables precariously hanging over the entrance are just waiting to fall on a big gold chain wearing Chinese tourist .. Yeah if I were a Q C T I'd give that place a big swerve .. ⚡⚡

[Rimbuman]

5 hours ago, Cloggie said:

>>> police said, hotel was not licensed, did not meet building standards for hotels and the building itself was illegally extended.

 

That's why everybody though he was Thai!

 

 

[wakeupplease]

So what comes after zero dollar tourists ?

 

Nothing is the answer as the rest of the world has moved on from scams and corruption.

[Thingamabob]

Listen Thailand, you're being conned by these people. Wake up before it's too late.

[Justgrazing]

24 minutes ago, Thingamabob said:

Listen Thailand, you're being conned by these people. Wake up before it's too late.

Thai's getting ripped off by foreigners in their own backyard .. Wow that'll be a first ..

[Remus1830]

But but but Chinese tourists are great for Thailand the numbers make the government look good who cares if anyone actually makes any money numbers are up great

[sawadeeken]

This Chinese guy is probably in the same Chinese family with the "Doctor" who left his backpack (containing over a million baht) on a bus and the bus conductor returned it to him and was rewarded for her good deed with two bags of candy.............. LOL........ (zero $ tours)........ LOL....even more.....

[spidermike007]

Again, this is a situation where nobody is attempting to get to the root of the problem. Of course, in Thai society, it is not particularly popular to look within for the source of the problem.

 

I think perhaps a few decades from now, they will have tourism classes at university, where they will discuss how Thailand lost the golden egg of Western tourism. Those tourists, unlike most Chinese tourists, spent anywhere from $100 a day, to over $2,000 a day. They brought real money into the country, and in exchange, were treated with utter and complete disregard, scammed, disrespected, and abused. Eventually, most said no more. Thailand thought the country was something very special, and that nobody would ever say no, or find alternative places to visit. The fact is that there are countless other spots, many in this region, that offer better service, more expertise in food and beverage (especially wine service and selection at fair prices, which rich tourists demand), reasonable import duties to sustain a luxury goods market, better training, and far better english skills. Thailand simply lost sight of the big picture, and had very little vision, with regard to big spending tourists, who need to be catered to, instead of scorned.  

 

So, what happened? The Western tourists started to decline in number, and the genius minds at the TAT decided it was time to "lure" the Chinese. They came. They came in droves. But, they did not spend much money. Hotels, restaurants, gift shops, jewelers, galleries, spas, massage shops, bars, and countless other businesses suffered, and will continue to suffer from this extreme myopia, on the part of the officials in charge of tourism. Oh well. Can't say they were not warned. Zero baht tourists are perhaps the majority who visit Thailand now. Sure, they spend some money in restaurants, and in 7/11. But, that is about it, for some of the super low budget Chinese tours. Not many rich Chinese are not visiting Thailand, for a dozen good reasons. They have too many other options.

 

There are countless things the government could be doing, if they wanted to attract the high quality tourists. The very first thing would be to repeal the anti faring wine bill, that was passed by a few very corrupt senators way back when, to protect an anemic local wine industry. They are losing billions of dollars a year in revenue, that would be had from a 100% wine duty, instead of 460%. The five star hotels would have major wine events, and the entire industry would flourish here. But again, the lack of vision, combined with a naive, surly, silly, churlish, and ignorant sense of nationalism, bites the country in the butt. And again, who is the loser? The Thai people. 

 

 It is a real shame, as I find most Thai people to be quite lovely, friendly, warm, helpful and fun to be around. I am sure many feel the same way. But, unfortunately they are cursed with a government that is incompetent, myopic, non-visionary, indifferent, and reckless beyond imagination.

 

Leading Thailand backwards at an astonishing and alarming pace. 

[JSixpack]

3 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Again, this is a situation where nobody is attempting to get to the root of the problem.

 

Zero-dollar tours are a very small problem and yes they already got to the root of the problem w/ the banning of them earlier. That's been taking effect quite noticeably w/ FAR fewer tour buses clogging up traffic etc. As with any regulation, violators appear as in this case.

 

Quote

I think perhaps a few decades from now, they will have tourism classes at university, where they will discuss how Thailand lost the golden egg of Western tourism. Those tourists, unlike most Chinese tourists, spent anywhere from $100 a day, to over $2,000 a day. They brought real money into the country, and in exchange, were treated with utter and complete disregard, scammed, disrespected, and abused. Eventually, most said no more.

 

 

Since the Great Exodus to The Paradise Of Cambodia, as prophesied countless times over the past two decades, Thai tourism has vastly expanded and the revenue from same proportionately. No, mongers staying in fleabags on Soi Buakhao for B300 a night weren't spending nearly as much as you think and Pattaya's about 4 times bigger now from their heyday. Nor are they much staying in the Hilton. Who's really helping the Hilton and Central Festival? Chinese and Koreans, according to the last quarterly report I saw. In this ace analysis, you're only able to see zero-dollar tourists and not the real spenders coming from Asia--and from within Thailand, though TAT: TVF won't allow domestic tourism as it spoils the narrative.

 

 

Quote

 Not many rich Chinese are not visiting Thailand, for a dozen good reasons. They have too many other options.

 

See above. "Rich" Chinese have a lot of options but there are a lot of Chinese and Thailand's getting a cut.

 

Quote

Leading Thailand backwards at an astonishing and alarming pace.

 

 

And that's today's Whither Thailand doom prophecy. We'll add that to the large pile.

 

I think perhaps a few decades from now, they will have tourism classes at university, where they will discuss the TVF Poster Golden Egg Theory Of Thai Economics along with the Flat Earth theory. You seem not familiar yourself with classical Golden Egg Theory, its history and underpinnings, with crucial related concepts such as Fixed Pie, but a brief summary, distilled from years of ace economic analyses, is found here.

 

Edited July 29, 2017 by JSixpack

[spidermike007]

23 hours ago, JSixpack said:

Zero-dollar tours are a very small problem and yes they already got to the root of the problem w/ the banning of them earlier. That's been taking effect quite noticeably w/ FAR fewer tour buses clogging up traffic etc. As with any regulation, violators appear as in this case.

 

 

Since the Great Exodus to The Paradise Of Cambodia, as prophesied countless times over the past two decades, Thai tourism has vastly expanded and the revenue from same proportionately. No, mongers staying in fleabags on Soi Buakhao for B300 a night weren't spending nearly as much as you think and Pattaya's about 4 times bigger now from their heyday. Nor are they much staying in the Hilton. Who's really helping the Hilton and Central Festival? Chinese and Koreans, according to the last quarterly report I saw. In this ace analysis, you're only able to see zero-dollar tourists and not the real spenders coming from Asia--and from within Thailand, though TAT: TVF won't allow domestic tourism as it spoils the narrative.

 

 

 

See above. "Rich" Chinese have a lot of options but there are a lot of Chinese and Thailand's getting a cut.

 

 

And that's today's Whither Thailand doom prophecy. We'll add that to the large pile.

 

I think perhaps a few decades from now, they will have tourism classes at university, where they will discuss the TVF Poster Golden Egg Theory Of Thai Economics along with the Flat Earth theory. You seem not familiar yourself with classical Golden Egg Theory, its history and underpinnings, with crucial related concepts such as Fixed Pie, but a brief summary, distilled from years of ace economic analyses, is found here.

 

 

I could not possibly disagree more adamantly. It is just an alternative reality narrative you state. According to everyone I talk to, it is just not the case. The entire country is suffering from a declining tourism industry. And that will not change. It is a permanent declining trend. For a hundred valid reasons. Yes, Chinese tourism is way up and it allows the TAT to up the numbers annually. But, nearly all I speak to say it is not helping the Thai economy much at all, and tourism is way off. As I stated previously:

 

I have a friend who stayed on Samui back in December. He stayed at a resort that has 54 rooms. Normally, they are 100% booked, from about Dec. 20th, to about January 5th. This year, they only had 22 rooms filled. They were down 60% for the peak season! Many resorts are experiencing similarly alarming numbers. These hotels counted on the government to support them, when they spend millions on their properties, and the government has let them down, once again. They continue to drop the ball, at every opportunity. They trot out these projections, every time they get scared, and see the numbers dropping. Who was it that said, if you tell the people something often enough, eventually they will believe it? Well, not us. We are not buying your simpleton lies. Tourism is declining by the day. 

 

The neighbors are trying too hard, and making too much effort, and investing money. Thailand is not. Though this topic relates mostly to tourism, in a way it pertains to ex-pats living here too. And I too am considering other spots. Currently the top spot under consideration seems to be Spain. So much culture, great wine, alot of fascinating places to visit nearby, reasonable real estate, a language I speak, and a reasonable standard of living. The other spots in this region offer too much similar nonsense, and bad infrastructure. Too many "so called leaders" in this region too, who lack creative juice, nor do they care one iota for their people. And the really hot weather, which seems to be getting hotter, and drier, is not all that appealing, as I get older. Thailand is making no steps whatsoever, to improve upon itself. On alot of levels, it feels like it is either standing still, or more than likely going backwards. Frankly, the biggest draw at the moment is being close to my wife's family, the food, the relatively pleasant people, and the weakening of the baht. But, I dislike the government, and the level of ignorance being perpetrated by the fabulously inferior educational system here does not appear to bode well for the future of the place. I also despise the practice of face, and the staggering level of cowardice that accompanies that weak, pathetic quality. 

 

Moving the country forward? I think not. More like "Moving Thailand backwards at an alarming pace".

[retirementenquiry]

Here 10 years now TAT is scraping the bottom of the barrel in the last week there have been 2 reported extortion attempts on 2 different parties 6 left behind and a family bullied in to buy some over priced local tour package it cant get lower...

It got to expensive for westerners had some relatives here and where shocked at wine prices and filthy beaches

Where to next it will be harder than ever to attract quality without some major policy changes and investment

Edited July 30, 2017 by retirementenquiry

[JSixpack]

22 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

I could not possibly disagree more adamantly. It is just an alternative reality narrative you state. According to everyone I talk to, it is just not the case. 

1

 

Confirmation bias. Posters here typically don't frequent the same places as the better Chinese do. I recall a year ago the same argument based on the fact that no Chinese were frequenting his favorite beer bars. Anecdotes are coins of this realm and poor mouthing is typical. Why don't you go dig into some quarterly reports and look at some real numbers?  Don't believe TAT, go look at what Mastercard says. 

 

Quote

And I too am considering other spots. Currently the top spot under consideration seems to be Spain. So much culture, great wine, alot of fascinating places to visit nearby, reasonable real estate, a language I speak, and a reasonable standard of living.

 

Excellent. Now if we go onto some Brit expat forums we could probably find some good whinges about Spain. I did that once for Portugal after a poster was touting that as the latest paradise for Pattaya refugees. But the cool thing about confirmation bias it does help one to reach ASAP the terminal last nail in the coffin and killed the goose gibbering stage and bugger off with sour grapes. After all, that would be best for the sufferer and spare the rest of us more bashing and doomsaying.

 

Now it's always a source of relief when one of our malcontents does head for the exits. In fact, we should present some sort of TVF Buggered Off Award on the announcement. Problem is, we're just not gettin' that many announcements out of all the thousands. Sheee-it. I mean, though everybody's been heading for the exits for the last 20 years, we only get an official announcement maybe--what, twice a year? Seems like we get a lot more posts from members heading for the entrance and seeking advice. Huh? We don't talk about those.

 

@JESSVANPELT had it right:

 

I also understand that this is a THIRD WORLD country, so right away I'am not going to get upset about all the things that are not the same as they are at home, If I wanted things that way I'd stay at home and a lot of the Moaners here should have, Unfortunately Thats the only bad part of this place. . . .

 

Being Happy here is Easy, Accept it for what it is and enjoy it
    --JESSVANPELT, on 2015-10-08 11:59:10

 

Quote

But, I dislike the government, and the level of ignorance being perpetrated by the fabulously inferior educational system here does not appear to bode well for the future of the place. I also despise the practice of face, and the staggering level of cowardice that accompanies that weak, pathetic quality.

 

 

That's what happened to Mobi before he left, plagued by space monkeys. Now he's much happier as I'm sure you will be. Thais are Thais and always have been Thais. Nothing new there. Personally I get along with them just fine. But despite the bashing, naysaying, hating, whinging, and bigotry that dominate the forum--and only a tiny fraction of residents and tourists post here anyway--most of us cesspoolians are pretty happy living here in our cesspool. It ain't perfect but as KittenKong says, the advantages still outweigh the disadvantages.

[spidermike007]

3 hours ago, JSixpack said:

 

Confirmation bias. Posters here typically don't frequent the same places as the better Chinese do. I recall a year ago the same argument based on the fact that no Chinese were frequenting his favorite beer bars. Anecdotes are coins of this realm and poor mouthing is typical. Why don't you go dig into some quarterly reports and look at some real numbers?  Don't believe TAT, go look at what Mastercard says. 

 

 

Excellent. Now if we go onto some Brit expat forums we could probably find some good whinges about Spain. I did that once for Portugal after a poster was touting that as the latest paradise for Pattaya refugees. But the cool thing about confirmation bias it does help one to reach ASAP the terminal last nail in the coffin and killed the goose gibbering stage and bugger off with sour grapes. After all, that would be best for the sufferer and spare the rest of us more bashing and doomsaying.

 

Now it's always a source of relief when one of our malcontents does head for the exits. In fact, we should present some sort of TVF Buggered Off Award on the announcement. Problem is, we're just not gettin' that many announcements out of all the thousands. Sheee-it. I mean, though everybody's been heading for the exits for the last 20 years, we only get an official announcement maybe--what, twice a year? Seems like we get a lot more posts from members heading for the entrance and seeking advice. Huh? We don't talk about those.

 

@JESSVANPELT had it right:

 

I also understand that this is a THIRD WORLD country, so right away I'am not going to get upset about all the things that are not the same as they are at home, If I wanted things that way I'd stay at home and a lot of the Moaners here should have, Unfortunately Thats the only bad part of this place. . . .

 

Being Happy here is Easy, Accept it for what it is and enjoy it
    --JESSVANPELT, on 2015-10-08 11:59:10

 

 

That's what happened to Mobi before he left, plagued by space monkeys. Now he's much happier as I'm sure you will be. Thais are Thais and always have been Thais. Nothing new there. Personally I get along with them just fine. But despite the bashing, naysaying, hating, whinging, and bigotry that dominate the forum--and only a tiny fraction of residents and tourists post here anyway--most of us cesspoolians are pretty happy living here in our cesspool. It ain't perfect but as KittenKong says, the advantages still outweigh the disadvantages.

 

Very lame. Nearly every time I see someone complaining, or observing a shortfall within Thailand, some lame guy, who has not taken the time to think things through, nor to devote any focus or effort to a reasonable reply, says something like "Perhaps Thailand is not for you", or maybe you should leave, or the top prize, "if you do not like it here, go back to your own country". Hard to even respond to such inane statements. Why? Because I have some issues with the place? Sorry to inform you, but the nature of a discerning mind, is to have issues. Though absolute contentment must be a beautiful state of mind, it is not something most of us are blessed with, in case you have not noticed. The fact that I complain, does not mean I do not love Thailand, nor most of it's people. I do. I love my life here. I have a very good life here. But, I do have some complaints, and there are some things I would love to see improved. I should leave because of that? Please. 

[inThailand]

So the Thai attorney was the owner and front guy for the Chinese guy? A marriage made in heaven!

[atyclb]

chinese immigrants came to thailand with very little and now they are the masters. cp for example. how can the average thai compete against the chinese?? confiscating hundreds of chinese run tourist buses and closing dozens of chinese owned hotels will surely make them eager to vacation in thailand..  

[Justgrazing]

On 29/07/2017 at 2:34 AM, spidermike007 said:

Again, this is a situation where nobody is attempting to get to the root of the problem. Of course, in Thai society, it is not particularly popular to look within for the source of the problem.

 

I think perhaps a few decades from now, they will have tourism classes at university, where they will discuss how Thailand lost the golden egg of Western tourism. Those tourists, unlike most Chinese tourists, spent anywhere from $100 a day, to over $2,000 a day. They brought real money into the country, and in exchange, were treated with utter and complete disregard, scammed, disrespected, and abused. Eventually, most said no more. Thailand thought the country was something very special, and that nobody would ever say no, or find alternative places to visit. The fact is that there are countless other spots, many in this region, that offer better service, more expertise in food and beverage (especially wine service and selection at fair prices, which rich tourists demand), reasonable import duties to sustain a luxury goods market, better training, and far better english skills. Thailand simply lost sight of the big picture, and had very little vision, with regard to big spending tourists, who need to be catered to, instead of scorned.  

 

So, what happened? The Western tourists started to decline in number, and the genius minds at the TAT decided it was time to "lure" the Chinese. They came. They came in droves. But, they did not spend much money. Hotels, restaurants, gift shops, jewelers, galleries, spas, massage shops, bars, and countless other businesses suffered, and will continue to suffer from this extreme myopia, on the part of the officials in charge of tourism. Oh well. Can't say they were not warned. Zero baht tourists are perhaps the majority who visit Thailand now. Sure, they spend some money in restaurants, and in 7/11. But, that is about it, for some of the super low budget Chinese tours. Not many rich Chinese are not visiting Thailand, for a dozen good reasons. They have too many other options.

 

There are countless things the government could be doing, if they wanted to attract the high quality tourists. The very first thing would be to repeal the anti faring wine bill, that was passed by a few very corrupt senators way back when, to protect an anemic local wine industry. They are losing billions of dollars a year in revenue, that would be had from a 100% wine duty, instead of 460%. The five star hotels would have major wine events, and the entire industry would flourish here. But again, the lack of vision, combined with a naive, surly, silly, churlish, and ignorant sense of nationalism, bites the country in the butt. And again, who is the loser? The Thai people. 

 

 It is a real shame, as I find most Thai people to be quite lovely, friendly, warm, helpful and fun to be around. I am sure many feel the same way. But, unfortunately they are cursed with a government that is incompetent, myopic, non-visionary, indifferent, and reckless beyond imagination.

 

Leading Thailand backwards at an astonishing and alarming pace. 

 

Excellent post Sm .. As soon as the Kingdom made a " change of direction " in 2014 it became almost inevitable that its gaze would divert eastwards .. In making the change 3yrs ago Chairman P was well aware of the flak they would get from the West and the inability to accept any form of criticism here which is a defining national characteristic made it almost a strategic requirement of the decision to find new " buddies " and in particular " buddy " nations that won't criticise the new administration and who better fits that bill than China .. And this cosy'ing up is allowing them to build a well anchored presence here .. China will part finance and build any H S T railways that may eventually come for no better reasons than their cost and the fact they are monumental engineering projects .. And it should'nt go unmissed that since settling in as " caretaker " Gen ' P has set about upgunning the Thai military .. The submarine's they are buying are well known about but what may not be so well known is the procurement of tanks ( not small ones either ) A P C's and next generation fighter jets all from China and all to replace ageing American kit ( the fighter procurement may well be prompted by the U S govt's restricting availability of spare parts for their American made aircraft , a tactic sometimes used by the Yanks for those that incur its displeasure by usurping democracy ) Contracts on that scale indicate a willing relationship of long term bondage with China .. In return China encourages its working population to swamp Thailand and a vast network of " facilitators " both here and there has arisen to manage this .. That these visitors seem to spend little compared to the moaning troublesome farang is it would appear to be of secondary importance when their real value comes from the propaganda that t a t can extract out of the relationship with China because as we know all govt depts sing from the same hymn sheet .. Against that backdrop farangs relevance here is lessening when the calibre of visitors they desire are the ones who won't complain about the stuff that grates with Westerners :- crime , pollution , congestion ,  beach ,  pavements etc you know the stuff we all go on about .. Sadly I don't see things will change or improve from the perspective of some guys here whilst other will go with the flow and accept whatever way the place progress's ( regress's .? ) Its the personal choice thing .. Oh and as an alternative for the disenchanted good things are being said about Cuba since they chilled a bit with the U S .. And the ladies are quite accomodating by all accounts .. 

Edited July 31, 2017 by Justgrazing
Spelling

[gk10002000]

On 7/28/2017 at 3:40 AM, williamgeorgeallen said:

i owned the shop house beside this place for 5 years. for 4 of those years it was under renovation including buying the next 4 shop houses to make it a combined 10 shop houses.  seemed money was just flowing into the place.  it never seemed to have many customers when it opened.  doubt it was even covering its running costs. what a mess.

Reminds me of one of the hotels up off soi Lengkee, just past Opey place.  I was staying in one of the places on that street and this "Russian" hotel was in back.  A good sized place.  Looking at the rooms and the lights it was never 40 % full.  It had a pool so I went in to ask about rates and booking.  clerk said no rooms.  can not book.  Huh. 

[spidermike007]

4 hours ago, Justgrazing said:

Excellent post Sm .. As soon as the Kingdom made a " change of direction " in 2014 it became almost inevitable that its gaze would divert eastwards .. In making the change 3yrs ago Chairman P was well aware of the flak they would get from the West and the inability to accept any form of criticism here which is a defining national characteristic made it almost a strategic requirement of the decision to find new " buddies " and in particular " buddy " nations that won't criticise the new administration and who better fits that bill than China .. And this cosy'ing up is allowing them to build a well anchored presence here .. China will part finance and build any H S T railways that may eventually come for no better reasons than their cost and the fact they are monumental engineering projects .. And it should'nt go unmissed that since settling in as " caretaker " Gen ' P has set about upgunning the Thai military .. The submarine's they are buying are well known about but what may not be so well known is the procurement of tanks ( not small ones either ) A P C's and next generation fighter jets all from China and all to replace ageing American kit ( the fighter procurement may well be prompted by the U S govt's restricting availability of spare parts for their American made aircraft , a tactic sometimes used by the Yanks for those that incur its displeasure by usurping democracy ) Contracts on that scale indicate a willing relationship of long term bondage with China .. In return China encourages its working population to swamp Thailand and a vast network of " facilitators " both here and there has arisen to manage this .. That these visitors seem to spend little compared to the moaning troublesome farang is it would appear to be of secondary importance when their real value comes from the propaganda that t a t can extract out of the relationship with China because as we know all govt depts sing from the same hymn sheet .. Against that backdrop farangs relevance here is lessening when the calibre of visitors they desire are the ones who won't complain about the stuff that grates with Westerners :- crime , pollution , congestion ,  beach ,  pavements etc you know the stuff we all go on about .. Sadly I don't see things will change or improve from the perspective of some guys here whilst other will go with the flow and accept whatever way the place progress's ( regress's .? ) Its the personal choice thing .. Oh and as an alternative for the disenchanted good things are being said about Cuba since they chilled a bit with the U S .. And the ladies are quite accomodating by all accounts .. 

 

Outstanding analysis. Probably spot on. If they were capable of this type of analysis. But it makes sense that they would ally themselves with a dictatorial, despot nation like China. Too bad for the Thai people. There is nothing positive that can come from all of this. 

[JSixpack]

22 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

 

Very lame. Nearly every time I see someone complaining, or observing a shortfall within Thailand, some lame guy, who has not taken the time to think things through, nor to devote any focus or effort to a reasonable reply. 

 

 

No, it's actually you yourself who hasn't thought things through. That's why you've merely parroted nonsense about the Chinese "problem," Chinese spending, "declining" tourist numbers, and the state of the Thai economy and used those assumptions for the usual doom prediction that we've heard for decades. In a very focused, reasoned reply I encouraged you to go get the numbers so that you'll know what you're talking about rather than collecting little anecdotes--we always get those--but you won't. So who's lame?

 

Quote

 But, I do have some complaints, and there are some things I would love to see improved. I should leave because of that? Please

 

 

Please. You're the one talking about Spain and extolling its virtues, pal. And I simply agreed Spain or somewhere would probably be good for you as you do seem beset with the ol' Whither Thailand issues, the same issues that have always existed (at least in the superior farang mind), Thais being Thais, that neither you nor anyone here can do a thing about, that are the Thais' business, not yours, and that aren't going to change. And despite what you see as those issues, Thailand has mostly gone forward (I noted the tremendous growth even as the farang tourist numbers declined). Despite our ace economists' constantly seeing clouds on the horizon as they always have, you've given no real reason to suggest it won't just continue to do so, Thailand doing what it's always done.

 

5 hours ago, Justgrazing said:

That these visitors seem to spend little compared to the moaning troublesome farang

 

 

Rather, it's the moaning troublesome (broke) farang who enjoy thinking these visitors spend little 'cause they're not crowding into their fave beer bars. Also a new reliable TVF Poster revenue measure has recently emerged: the shopping bag count.  It takes its place with the measure of condo building success: the lights on at night count.

[Justgrazing]

3 hours ago, JSixpack said:

 

No, it's actually you yourself who hasn't thought things through. That's why you've merely parroted nonsense about the Chinese "problem," Chinese spending, "declining" tourist numbers, and the state of the Thai economy and used those assumptions for the usual doom prediction that we've heard for decades. In a very focused, reasoned reply I encouraged you to go get the numbers so that you'll know what you're talking about rather than collecting little anecdotes--we always get those--but you won't. So who's lame?

 

 

Please. You're the one talking about Spain and extolling its virtues, pal. And I simply agreed Spain or somewhere would probably be good for you as you do seem beset with the ol' Whither Thailand issues, the same issues that have always existed (at least in the superior farang mind), Thais being Thais, that neither you nor anyone here can do a thing about, that are the Thais' business, not yours, and that aren't going to change. And despite what you see as those issues, Thailand has mostly gone forward (I noted the tremendous growth even as the farang tourist numbers declined). Despite our ace economists' constantly seeing clouds on the horizon as they always have, you've given no real reason to suggest it won't just continue to do so, Thailand doing what it's always done.

 

 

Rather, it's the moaning troublesome (broke) farang who enjoy thinking these visitors spend little 'cause they're not crowding into their fave beer bars. Also a new reliable TVF Poster revenue measure has recently emerged: the shopping bag count.  It takes its place with the measure of condo building success: the lights on at night count.

No Sir I'm not familar with the shopping bag or lights on barometers of measuring who spends what ( or not as the case may be ) nor do I frequent bars to then make observations that the Chinese don't in fact stop off and spend money there .. ( and lets be honest the majority of Chinese are unlikely to find the sort of " entertainment " that made this place ( in ) famous appealling in the same way that it is to farang ) .. It may well be as you say that the Chinese are in fact outspending the pesky foreign troublemakers its just that on the face of it that is not immediately apparent to the man in the street .. Sure I see droves of Chinese tour buses gridlocking the city .. I see droves of Chinese gridlocking beach road promenade and I see droves of Chinese gridlocking Walking St but the one thing I rarely witness amongst all this commonality is the freespending of money in a fashion to which the Thai's have became so accustomed courtesy of those damn Westerners .. But all this " Oo spends what  " is becoming secondary to the ongoing problems besetting the place by such an increase in numbers coming here .. Pattaya is/was not a " designed " city as anyone who has seen photo's from 40 odd year ago will concur .. It has evolved ( mutated.? )  into what it has become without any vision ,  foresight or consideration as to what the future holds and the mindset still pervades today ..

 

 I would wish to make this case in point :- the huge hotel constucted 'bout half way along Soi/3 near A1 .. where do you think the " used " water output of the Chinese guests who will frequent the place will end up .?  even if filtering and seperation of the waste before it leaves the place was a requirement of construction the laying of the pipework for that building did not suggest that its output would then be diverted to a secondary treatment plant .. With the sea only a couple of hundred mtrs away and an existing sewerage system already unable to cope as the rain always demonstrates its hard to see any other destination for it .. And so from one additional hotel alone the " used  " water of hundreds of more guests will ( eventually ) further taint a beach that already resembles a toilet on some days .. And how many more Hotels have gone up here the last 5 years .? So part of the equation of who spends what must include the cost of dealing with catastrophes like that afflicting the beach that in part has been brought about by the increase in visitors .. Should it not .? 

 

And on street level it has to be said that the Chinese are less than considerate of their hosts if anyone who has witnessed their discarding of accrued rubbish onto the beach after disembarking from the speedboats after they've done the Koh-larn trip may concur .. Not to mention dead cigarette butt that they so casually discard which any ecologist worth his salt will tell you fish have a habit of ingesting .. ( along with the rest of the crap residing within the soup sorry sea ) .. Again the cost of rectification has to be show alongside money coming in .. Or is it not an equation the powers that be are comfortable with or are willing to operate by .? But its a personal choice for those who wish to stay and embrace the Chinese influence or those who choose to pursue an alternative elsewhere .. And at the moment I'm stuck on the barbed wire fence of procrastination ..