SURVEY: Brexit -- Good or Bad Idea?

[transam]

3 minutes ago, whatsupdoc said:

Should have this poll again in 2020, especially if there is no deal (unlikely though, because that would be truly disastrous for the UK. So later next year the UK will have to accept what the EU is willing to offer or see their economy completely go down the drain)

Well fanks for that.....

 

[whatsupdoc]

1 minute ago, transam said:

Well fanks for that.....

 

No crystal ball needed for that prediction 

[marginline]

3 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

I am not British, so my opinion doesn't really matter, but...

 

3 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Forgive me, but as an outside observer, I see a small majority of the people who voted to look backwards to a "better time", but that time does not and did not exist.

I am British and I totally disagree with you Samui Bodoh, but all I can say is that your opinion DOES matter when it is disseminated with such class, such poise and which respects the feelings of others who; most respectfully disagree with you.

Oh, and there's nothing to "forgive" either IMHO krub. Thank you. 

[baansgr]

If people put aside short term worries about XE and mortgage rates they would see there are so many benefits of leaving

the EU and the unelected idiots that run it. Every passing day becomes clearer what the EU is really about. Brainwashed lefties that think its racist for people to show a passport when entering a country really need to get a grip on reality

[whatsupdoc]

Just now, baansgr said:

If people put aside short term worries about XE and mortgage rates they would see there are so many benefits of leaving

the EU and the unelected idiots that run it. Every passing day becomes clearer what the EU is really about. Brainwashed lefties that think its racist for people to show a passport when entering a country really need to get a grip on reality

Can you name any benefits?

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, Pdaz said:

What ?  Like Cameron did ?  

Yes

[stephenterry]

These are the rounded figures, some in % terms. The total electoral role: 46,500,000. 

Total turnout 33,500,000 (72%)

 

Leavers          17,400,000 (37%)

Remainers     16,100,000 (35%)

Non-voters     13,000,000 (28%)

 

Total                46,500,000 (100%)

 

IMO, 37% of the total electoral role is not a majority or a blueprint for the Government to announce it is the 'will of the people' that we must enforce Brexit, because that is statistically incorrect. It is the will of those that voted to leave, but not the majority of the electorate. 

[jobwolf]

4 hours ago, MaeJoMTB said:

Anything is better than being ruled by the Germans and their Muslim shock troops.

If the UK needs to be part of another country, I vote to join America.

Crying bit has started already, the Germans will have to come and safe you later. Joining America is a good idea, your government is about as capable as Americas.

[transam]

3 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

These are the rounded figures, some in % terms. The total electoral role: 46,500,000. 

Total turnout 33,500,000 (72%)

 

Leavers          17,400,000 (37%)

Remainers     16,100,000 (35%)

Non-voters     13,000,000 (28%)

 

Total                46,500,000 (100%)

 

IMO, 37% of the total electoral role is not a majority or a blueprint for the Government to announce it is the 'will of the people' that we must enforce Brexit, because that is statistically incorrect. It is the will of those that voted to leave, but not the majority of the electorate. 

The 13,000,000 didn't care one way or the other, so add them to the majority vote...

[marginline]

1 minute ago, stephenterry said:

It is the will of those that voted to leave, but not the majority of the electorate. 

Respectfully stephenterry EVERY person who made up the UK's electorate at that time had an 'equal opportunity' to express their respective opinions. If they chose not to vote, how do you suggest we could have made them vote please?

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, bert bloggs said:

 

You are joking ,the E.U elite have never taken any notice of us ,in fact if we want to change something ,they choose the opposite . Also the only British Leader who had any "balls" and stood up to them was Thatcher .and she was a woman .

Such a shame that so many Brexit types feel inferior to an EU Elite! I don't.

[shanesox]

A very articulate and reasoned comment. The UK could do with more citizens like you. The next UK generation will curse their forefathers for this racist and fear driven vote that will reduce there country to a backwater of the coast of one of the world’s major economic communities.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No they won’t! M.L NEW


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Pdaz]

6 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

These are the rounded figures, some in % terms. The total electoral role: 46,500,000. 

Total turnout 33,500,000 (72%)

 

Leavers          17,400,000 (37%)

Remainers     16,100,000 (35%)

Non-voters     13,000,000 (28%)

 

Total                46,500,000 (100%)

 

IMO, 37% of the total electoral role is not a majority or a blueprint for the Government to announce it is the 'will of the people' that we must enforce Brexit, because that is statistically incorrect. It is the will of those that voted to leave, but not the majority of the electorate. 

Yes I agree. That is why participation in National elections and referendums should be compulsory. Of course there should be a "none of the above" box so all opinion could be represented. Unfortunately a percentage of the population is too lazy or too jaded to vote. Funny enough these are also some of the first people to complain when they don't get what they wanted.

[Pdaz]

29 minutes ago, whatsupdoc said:

Can you name any benefits?

Not having hundreds of MEP and their flunkies pensions and expenses to pay for

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, ksamuiguy said:

Seems to me U.K. just pays a LOT, with basically no say so in what happens in Brussels.

Just an American observation from the outside looking in!

Then clearly you do not understand how the EU works ?

[transam]

2 minutes ago, Pdaz said:

Yes I agree. That is why participation in National elections and referendums should be compulsory. Of course there should be a "none of the above" box so all opinion could be represented. Unfortunately a percentage of the population is too lazy or too jaded to vote. Funny enough these are also some of the first people to complain when they don't get what they wanted.

Called freedom....

[David in the north]

4 hours ago, Grouse said:

Always been madness. Better to stay and force change from within.

Like Cameron did?

[marginline]

4 minutes ago, shanesox said:

The next UK generation will curse their forefathers for this racist and fear driven vote

So respectfully shanesox my vote was "fear driven" because I am a racist? 

[transam]

2 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Then clearly you do not understand how the EU works ?

And many Brits now don't want to know....Had enough, get back to making our own decisions and not a bunch of foreign folk  sitting in Brussels .....

[Surasak]

4 hours ago, Grouse said:

Always been madness. Better to stay and force change from within.

Almost impossible. No coupon try on its own could do that

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, hawker9000 said:

Having surrendered so much of its sovereignty, how exactly do you "force change from within"?  I'm surprised Brexit took as long as it did.

 

Over time. In stages.

 

The moderates' chant:

 

What do we want? Modest change!

 

When do we want it? As economic conditions allow!

[David in the north]

In 1974 I voted to join the Common Market.
I did not vote to join a united states of Europe, run by non entities full of their own importance. Once again, the UK public were lied to. The plan all along was for the common market to become the u.s. of e
Had I known that at the time, no way would I have voted "join" & I am sure there are millions more who think the same way. As for fighting from within - look at Cameron - went to EU, asked for nothing, got even less & tried to present it to UK as some great victory! If he had come away with some reasonable concessions it is probable the "in" side would have won.

Edited October 15, 2017 by David in the north

[Retiredandhappyhere]

1 hour ago, hawker9000 said:

Having surrendered so much of its sovereignty, how exactly do you "force change from within"?  I'm surprised Brexit took as long as it did.

 

Well, it took as long as it did, because the people were never asked before.

[Grouse]

18 minutes ago, transam said:

The 13,000,000 didn't care one way or the other, so add them to the majority vote...

And that is where you are so dreadfully wrong. It should be a super majority to change such a serious "constitutional" matter.

[stephenterry]

1 minute ago, marginline said:

Respectfully stephenterry EVERY person who made up the UK's electorate at that time had an 'equal opportunity' to express their respective opinions. If they chose not to vote, how do you suggest we could have made them vote please?

While I agree with your summation, the fact is they didn't vote to leave. Therefore it is incorrect for the government to state that Brexit was enacted on the 'will of the people', because it wasn't.

 

It would have been factual for them to have stated that 37% of the electorate voted to leave and 35% voted to remain (and  - my words - in the government's opinion,  we will debate this outcome in the House before taking any action either way).   

 

But that never happened. May, being gung-ho with an overall majority decided to enact Article 50 without any hard facts whether leaving or remaining would be better for Britain, and with little understanding of what would ensue.

 

That is the mess the UK is in today. Preparing for a 'no deal' which is the worst possible economic outcome for the UK, IMO. 

[Grouse]

21 minutes ago, marginline said:

Respectfully stephenterry EVERY person who made up the UK's electorate at that time had an 'equal opportunity' to express their respective opinions. If they chose not to vote, how do you suggest we could have made them vote please?

No. It's the other way round. You really need to obtain a majority of the electorate to bring about "constitutional" change. Otherwise civil strife at the very least is the result. (See Catalonia)

[Surasak]

1 hour ago, Mandox said:

dito

I think with them the needed reforms for the European Union would not be possible.

I wish them the best to reanimate old times. 

 

 

It's no a case of reanimating old times. More a case of not wishing to be dictated too by a bunch of losers.

[marginline]

2 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

While I agree with your summation

...and I agree with your summation too Sir. But how, in all practicality, can we or could we have ever got/get 100% electorate participation?

Unless you have a definitive answer, surely we have to work with the democratic 'tools at hand' don't we?

[Grouse]

1 minute ago, Surasak said:

It's no a case of reanimating old times. More a case of not wishing to be dictated too by a bunch of losers.

Who are the losers pray?

 

Have you travelled much around the UK and mainland Europe in recent years? You should! You would then have a better idea who is losing ?

[vogie]

12 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

While I agree with your summation, the fact is they didn't vote to leave. Therefore it is incorrect for the government to state that Brexit was enacted on the 'will of the people', because it wasn't.

 

It would have been factual for them to have stated that 37% of the electorate voted to leave and 35% voted to remain (and  - my words - in the government's opinion,  we will debate this outcome in the House before taking any action either way).   

 

But that never happened. May, being gung-ho with an overall majority decided to enact Article 50 without any hard facts whether leaving or remaining would be better for Britain, and with little understanding of what would ensue.

 

That is the mess the UK is in today. Preparing for a 'no deal' which is the worst possible economic outcome for the UK, IMO. 

"While I agree with your summation, the fact is they didn't vote to leave."

 

They didn't vote to remain either, so I'm not totally sure what your point is.

Edited October 15, 2017 by vogie